are the military in ukraine fighting against russia and against legal discrimination in their country, or are they getting it? they have equal rights with others, we are talking about this on the bbc broadcast live from london, i am yevgenia shytlovska. it is not known how many lgbt plus soldiers serve in the armed forces of ukraine, but the longer the war lasts, the more acute the problem of inequality they face, because they have the same duties as others, but fewer rights, since the state does not recognizes their relationship. the partners of such soldiers are not considered their relatives relatives, so they have no information. about

death or injury, they are not allowed to intensive care, in case of injury, in case of death they do not provide state support. since last year , a bill that would allow same-sex partnerships has been stuck in the verkhovna rada. the document is now being considered by the parliamentary committee on legal policy, and, as one of the representatives of this committee said, the majority there is against it, because there are concerns from the church and voters. we will talk about this bill in detail later, and now about which ones. have rights to continue to fight for representatives of the lgbt community while the war continues. here in ukraine , the fallen are honored and mourned. during pride month, the lgbt community came here to leave flags in memory of their fallen. rodion's ex-boyfriend died in the first months of the full-scale invasion. romanov was only 21 years old. the area was given to the russians. the location of his unit,

says his partner rodion. the novel was truly one of the best. the deaths of gay soldiers on the front line exposed the injustice and lgbt people do not have equal marriage rights. these deaths, this blood is all the same. it doesn't matter if a person is straight or homosexual, it's the same. i don't want to feel like a semi-citizen. "i'm the same person as everyone else, i pay the same taxes, i'm just as pro-ukrainian, and yes, rockets can kill me as well as anyone, this pride parade is the first since the beginning of a full-scale war, don't give up the right, of the ukrainian state". activists are trying

to use this moment to pass a new law on civil partnerships. currently , partners of soldiers killed in battle cannot take care of their bodies. the marchers were only allowed to walk a few hundred meters due to the risk of homophobic attacks. this community still struggles with conservative views, even as these soldiers defy prejudice. we showed who lgbt defenders are at the front, and ukrainians respect that. that is why they are becoming more loyal to the lgbt community. but the march had to be ended quickly. hundreds of protesters moved through the city center towards independence square. this group of far-right protesters just appeared here, and they are trying to interfere with the pride walk. shouting

incredibly offensive homophobic slogans. organizers say these protesters do not reflect society, they say there will always be people with homophobic views. society is becoming more tolerant, they say, but that gives you an idea of ​​some of the opposition they face. the verkhovna rada also has its own opposition. deputies with conservative views blocked the law on civil partnerships. meanwhile, lgbt'. the military fears that the war will not bring about the changes they hoped for. so what are the chances that same-sex partnerships in ukraine during the war are legalized, when there is opposition both in society and in parliament, the bill on the institute of registered partnerships, that is its official name, and it has been in the verkhovna rada since march of last year, that is, how much time has passed, a year and three months, the document has not yet reached the first reading, it is stuck for consideration. in committees. what does this

bill provide? as noted by its authors, it will enable couples to register a civil partnership, not a marriage, this is different, a partnership as an alternative to marriage, in which... partners receive the status of close relatives, family members of the first degree of consanguinity, this is what is important, and it is proposed to adopt it primarily to help protect the rights of lgbt military personnel. the initiator of this draft law, the deputy of the verkhovna rada, inna suvsun, told us why this document has not yet been submitted to the parliament for consideration. he really stalled in terms of going through formal procedures within the parliament. he intervened at the level of the main committee, this is a commie. of legal policy, in which, well, frankly speaking, it is small, and it even has two or three votes of the majority, this is enough to not have enough votes to pass this committee, without passing the specialized committee it is impossible to bring the bill to the parliament hall, and

unfortunately , it turns out that because of one committee, because of the five people in this committee, we cannot go further, there was an attempt to change. carry this bill to another committee, but even this attempt to transfer to the european integration committee, which would actually be logical, well, even this attempt the profile committee of legal policy also blocked, so now we are thinking about alternative steps that can be taken in order to solve the problem with this profile committee, which is clearly not just more conservative than the rest of ukrainian society, it is even more conservative than the whole... parliament as a whole, in the parliament the attitude towards this issue has been changing little by little since the registration of the draft law, but the truth is that not so many percent of deputies were categorically against it, a large part, either were not sufficiently informed, they did not know anything about it at all, or they were potentially silent, afraid

to speak publicly. now, well, there are deputies who even say that it was necessary to sign the bill in order to become an official singer. i was afraid then or i was afraid, now i regret it, but there are some deputies who, well , they remained against it, but their rhetoric, why they are against it, it has also changed, the extreme post of ihor fries, from the legal policy committee, who has already does not write about the fact that this is a perversion, a violation christian morality and so on and so on, this rhetoric that he used a year ago, and now he is talking about the fact that these issues can be solved in... the current legal field, you can formalize relationships, register and so on and so on . here, i understand that this is not enough at all, and it in no way changes the situation of people in ukraine. but, in fact, some processes inside the parliament are also taking place, they are just less visible and definitely not formalized, unfortunately.

in addition to practical problems, which are absent the military creates such legislation for lgbt people, there is simply a question of respect for the dignity of the people who protect you and me. hey, i think that this law is largely about that, and it is not only about settling some legal issues, it is about the fact that ukraine as a state must say: yes, we see you, we know you, we know you we recognize, we are grateful to you for your struggle, and we are ready to thank you, the recognition of equal rights for you, this, i think, is the most important thing that this law is designed to do, and i am very sorry that the passage of this law, unfortunately, takes so much time in ukrainian society, in general, the attitude towards the lgbt community is changing, this is evidenced by survey data conducted by kmis, and here are the results of their sociological research during a full-scale war. we see that the negative attitude towards representatives of the lgbt plus community has decreased, while in three years there has been an increase in those who believe that lgbt representatives

should have the same rights as the rest of the citizens of ukraine. if in 2022 it was supported by more than 60% of respondents, now 70% and 20% are against. as for the civil one. partnerships support is also growing, if you look at these numbers, almost a third support it, another third are indifferent to it, that is, in general , the majority is not against it, and we are talking about a partnership that does not involve the adoption of children, these are the data of the kyiv international institute of sociology regarding the trend over the last three years , but as we can see, there is no absolute support for the legalization of same-sex partnerships, and we talk more about this with maryna shevtsova, who is in touch with us from amsterdam, maryna shevtsova, scientist, researcher. of the gbt rules eastern and central europe, here is ms. marino, welcome to the air, the war has aggravated the issue of the rules of the gbt community in ukraine, but is it enough to allow civil partnerships? good evening, thank you for the

invitation, yes, of course, this is a very difficult question, because on the one hand we see an improvement in the attitude inside. that usually during the war, the so-called traditional gender roles, they are also, so to speak, strengthened, that is, this traditional division of society, the perception of traditional roles, women and men. and accordingly some more conservative attitude towards lgbt people, i hope, however, that due to the fact that we see such a homophobic player on the international stage as russia, which openly opposes lgbtiq, rights, rights of people, against civil society, and due to the fact that ukraine now shows such a desire to join the european union, to share european values, which are values ​​about human rights, about tolerance, about acceptance, however , this will be enough with the support of our western partners and for... more open-minded people of our people's

deputies, this may be enough to pass the law, but of course there is still a lot of work, but if you look at the experience of neighboring countries, european countries that allowed civil partnerships, or same-sex marriages, that's how it happened, you know it happened in very different ways in different countries and depending on history, on how civil society developed, what was the role of the church, but i want to say, looking at the fact that in ukraine the church is the main opponent, so the implementation civil partnerships and equal rights for lgbtq people, you can look at countries like, say, malta or spain or even slovenia, where recently full marriage equality for lgbtq rights has also been passed, and despite the fact that there is a very strong position of the local catholic churches, this did not prevent these countries from adopting equal rights for all. i would like to add here that of course, ms. inna sofson said that this law, it sends such a message

that we see lgbtq soldiers, and it is, but this law is not only about those people who defends ukraine at the front, he is in principle about respect for the guides and about the dignity of all citizens of ukraine, it does not matter if this person is at the front, or is a person who works in a kindergarten, at a school, is a person who fulfills his public duty connection, this person should have the same rights as heterosexual compatriots, and you mentioned about... about religions, religious societies, how the position of the church influenced these processes, how strong is the position of the church in ukraine regarding this? unfortunately, there are still ukrainian churches, none of the ukrainian churches support the rights of elhetics people, i know that organizations that take care of people's rights, they want to go to dialogue, to discuss this, because we also see good examples in the world, in particular, it seemed, in ulatinsk. america, i'm not talking about

countries like sweden, which are completely accepting, which even bless lgbt couples, yes, so i think our church could also expand a little bit in that direction, in the direction of a more humane position and not to follow the path that the moscow church chose for itself. well, it's the end of us, like a movement ukraine's accession to the eu will affect this, it is clear that this is a long-term perspective, accession. ukraine to the eu, but still, will it speed up these processes, i.e. granting equal rights to the lgbt community? i hope so. i would like to emphasize that the european union is not trying to introduce same-sex partnerships in ukraine. the european union does not impose such a requirement on us. but the european union demands from us respect, human dignity and human rights. and i would like it to be understood that such marriages, civil partnerships, they are not about propaganda, they are not about changing anything. the gender of a child or change someone's orientation, they are about people having equal rights to be themselves in

our society, to love, to open up to their partner, and of course to have access to the main social services, to health care , to the labor market and so on, and not to be discriminated against. thank you, ms. marina, marina shevtsova was in touch with us, thank you for joining our broadcast. thank you. and more about lgbt military issues. you can read on to our website bbc.u in this article by the bbc's jean mackenzie. well, subscribe to our social media pages so you don't miss the most important news. we are on facebook, instagram, tik tok, and on youtube, you can watch our broadcasts if you suddenly missed them live. well, with that i bid you farewell. see you tomorrow.

so, congratulations again. this is the verdict program and for the next 45 minutes i am with you, my name is vasyl zema and this is what will be discussed in the second part of our program. historical year. decision in luxembourg ukraine moved to of the european union, how soon the country will become european and what the path to the eu means for the ukrainian authorities and citizens. peace in ukraine in chinese and russian. putin calls ukraine's capitulation plan a peace proposal, while

xi jinping is looking for his own way to resolve the crisis. where will these paths lead the dictators? there will be relevant conclusions, zelenskyi promises government officials a serious conversation about the situation in donetsk region, should we expect further personnel rotations in the government? well, now i'll join our guests, i'll just say two words, well, since we are still talking about what happened, the national team of ukraine is returning, well , not home, because most of the players will go to rest somewhere outside of ukraine, the euro ended for the national team of ukraine 0:0 with belgium. and of course, the expected draw was played by romania and slovakia, and actually we return with four points, well, as they say, we leave germany, but not about that. now a survey, do you have alternative sources of electricity for your accommodation, this is the question, if so, then 0800 211 381, if not -

0800 211 382. please join. to our survey, we are interested in understanding how much ukrainians are preparing, or are they already ready for a blackout, because in the summer it's one story, in the fall, and especially in the winter, it's a completely different story. maksym rozumny, political expert, doctor of political sciences, will be with us, mr. maksym, if you can hear and see me, good evening, good evening, congratulations, congratulations, and also oleksan, political scientist, co-founder of the national platform of stability and cohesion. mr. oleg, i congratulate you too, good evening. and i certainly can't not you to ask what i just asked our viewers, do you have alternative sources of electricity for your home, yes or no, mr. maxim, please, i don't even know what to call it, i have a special battery, or what's called a ups , which should

power the wi-fi router, nothing more, mr. olezh. thanks to the actual alternative power supply from the battery, i am now communicating with you, the only thing is that the alternative internet has not worked out yet, so i apologize if there are problems with communication, but the light, the computer, the camera, everything is working right now it’s just from the battery, well, then we could figure out the technology, but right now we’re definitely, i think we’ll give it some ether sometime and talk about what can really be done with limited, let’s say , financial opportunities, well, the main thing ukrainians certainly do not have. huge opportunities, but still something can be done, especially if there is also an understanding of how to do it, but still, we will start with the path of ukraine to europe, the beginning, as president zelensky said, actual, real negotiations on ukraine's accession to the european union. mr. maxim, in your opinion, how far can it stretch, what can hinder or what can speed up this process,

in general, it is, yes, only, let me, because i am. you see, today at the exchange, everything does not always catch at once what should be, so please forgive me. now we will listen to president volodymyr zelenskyi, and then we will speak. and until today, we were a state that obtained the status of a candidate for admission, but there could not be full confidence whether we would implement this status? and from today, it's definitely confidence. ukraine will definitely be a full member of the european union. the question now lies in the technical work of ukraine with the european union, in the adaptation of our system to the eu, and in the political will of europe. to make a european project is really complete. well, then, about the president

, i spoke about the technical points now, but mr. maxim, again, how far is this process... to stretch, what can hinder it, or what can speed it up, please, i would say that for now we are this we imagine the process in such a, you know, mythological way postini, uh, you see, even if you compare it with other countries that joined the eu, our path is so very specific, that is, we have the corresponding obligations, plans, what to call it, i don't know, now we are talking about the fact that the path has finally begun, although it is, so to speak, long, but it is very difficult to say today how this path will develop, because... it depends on two trajectories, how ukraine will develop and how the european union will develop. that is, it is an equation with two unknowns. well, with

ukraine, the instability of ukraine and our path, it seems clear that the war continues, er, political instability is possible after the end of hostilities and during election campaigns and so on. the word turbulence is enough for us, but so is the european union. its trajectory is also not entirely clear today, given the internal problems, given the positioning in the world, given the skepticism about the expansion of the self and so on, so even the analogy by which today they talk about some terms as others countries got caught, it does not work because other countries entered under different conditions, well , it is clear that it will not happen soon. it is clear that it will take years, i would say so, mr. oleg, the actual question is the same, i can only repeat it, maybe our viewers, who just joined now, did not hear, but real negotiations,

actual negotiations, as president zelensky said, regarding ukraine's accession to the european union, how long it can take and what can speed up this process, and what can prevent it, its acceleration, because it can prevent its normal course in general, well, except for the situation related to the war, because it we'. now we can't go anywhere, the war continues, unfortunately. i would not now speak in the category of terms, first of all, since it is really unknown how many years it will take, i absolutely agree with mr. maxim on this. in general, if we talk about the european integration process, it has always had such a worldview character for ukrainians, there was not a rational, but an irrational, attitude towards it, because we associated with the european union all the good things that we want to get in ukraine, all those standards, that... well-being, that guaranteed respect for the individual and many other things. at the same time , we looked at the european union with rose-colored glasses, often not seeing its

reverse side and the many problems with which it is connected, and that is why at the moment the european integration process of ukraine is entering, i would say , the phase of just finishing the candy-bouquet period and such a thing is already being worked on, well , let's call it a marriage contract, because they call... the european union a family of european states, well, it turns out to be a somewhat polyamorous family, but nevertheless, it now begins a period when inventory is taken, with what, how, under what conditions, with what luggage, with what, on the contrary, defects ukraine will get there. the first stage now is about the fundamental foundations of the european union, and here it is the easiest: the first stage is this negotiation stage, it is actually not where we will negotiate, but where we have to meet the criteria, although... although there will be one specific question regarding of national minorities and communities, where hungary has already put up a number of lists and it is obvious that it falls into the first cluster, and therefore there is room for bargaining

will also be found, but for now the ball is in our court with regard to the first parameter, and actually a significant part are requirements that we simply have to meet, then there will be a series of sectoral negotiations on economic, agricultural, trade, and many different parameters . and this is where new difficulties open up for us, because this is a new stage of negotiations, in which ukraine needs to approach with a cool head, it cannot be compensated for by heroism and bravery. in general, our european integration process, like many other processes in our country, resembled a campaign a hero who overcomes some challenges in front of him, heroically overcoming them, achieves the desired result. and what is the phenomenon of ukrainian heroism in general? well, very often this is... a phenomenon that has a rather negative nature, it is called covering human achievement with individual superpowers, systemic failures

and inefficiencies, and in european integration, it is also very often the achievement of ukrainian society, heroic certain steps of society, they compensated for the inability of the state the apparatus simply plans to engage in european integration without interruption, and that's it now it is precisely the state apparatus that will face this challenge: but to demonstrate the ability, first of all, to determine the priority of what is strategically important for us, and what is secondary. in many negotiations, we will have to sacrifice certain of our positions, and we must clearly understand what we can sacrifice, and what we will defend the stupid nations. urodya the second point, for this it is necessary to establish a communication system, both internally and externally. we need negotiators in various industry areas with the european union to defend their interest, and these should be professional people, and lawyers, and lawyers. researchers, diplomats, these are different specialties, and at each moment it is their expertise that will be needed, and it is important not to replace it, because sometimes they have a legal document to work with, and sometimes they have

professional negotiators who will not allow escalation. but next to that, it is also a process within society, coordination of these interests, work with business associations, with industry associations, starting with it professionals, ending with artists, artists, sportsmen and all others. according to all these directions, ukraine should have a firm position in the negotiations with the european union, therefore the third and last thing i would like to mention now is very important, the ability to work with one's own society and trust in the authorities will be more important than ever. current, future, because it is likely that the european integration process will be completed under the new ukrainian government, because it will go beyond one electoral cycle, and this government should have the opportunity to return to society and say: here we will hold our horses a little bit, because at the moment they are screwing us hands, because currently some countries are making demands that we cannot comply with for the sake

of the future. conditions, understanding that ukraine has to go through this process, but in any case , it is always more difficult to integrate in a large country than , relatively speaking, moldova, and therefore i, by the way, as a native, you said about the natives, as a writer, i, for example, i will very gladly wait for ukraine to join the european union, common market, and maybe then copyrights will be respected, they will cost the same as in the european union, and they will treat it differently, so there will be many positive moments, but a lot of things need to be changed in attitude, in consciousness, well... the most important thing, of course, not the most important thing, but it is definitely important in the fight against corruption, not to say, i won’t, it’s like a quote that corruption is everywhere, and in ukraine it is not the biggest, it does not justify anything, i can not only, like to signal that we are not these negotiations started and god grant that all this will be successful, and now i am about the proposal of putin and sydzipin, i will put it in quotation marks, these are peaceful proposals,

because... they are not peaceful for ukraine, or again , this is a hybrid peace, it is not the peace we seek is not permanent peace, i will first quote what the self-proclaimed president of the aggressor country, the russian dictator vladimir putin, said that he is embarrassed, once again, the peace proposals supposedly realistically foresee the possibility of ending the war in ukraine. in his address to the participants of the international scientific expert of the forum, putin noted: he expects that , unlike many western politicians who did not even want to ... delve into the essence of the initiative put forward by us, the participants of the forum will be able to see that it really provides an opportunity to stop the conflict and move to its political and diplomatic settlement, and and then i, or let's first discuss this idea of ​​putin's, and then i will also quote , as it will be in ukrainian, in russian, he is there, not the president, he is, well, the chairman,

so be it... so be it the head of the chinese people of the republic of xijin pin, and putin says that they did not read what i proposed, so let's study here on the forum now, and it is a really good proposal, how to end the war, eh, if you read what putin means, mr. maksym , uh, you know, maybe i 'll hurt your idea a little bit, so to speak, to quote putin and comment on him separately, because i would still start with... with xi jinping's position and opinion, since it is actually decisive, come on, mr. maxim, let's go, let's do it, we planned it that way, but i think i thought let's do it together, as they say, the leader of china , xi jinping, in a meeting with the president of poland , andrzej duda, said that beijing will look for ways to resolve the crisis in ukraine, as they call it, again in quotes , crisis in ukraine, because this is not a crisis, it is a full-scale

war. in own sport. necessary, this is a quote: efforts must be made to prevent the expansion and escalation of the conflict, reduce tensions and create conditions for peace negotiations. china encourages and supports all efforts that contribute to the peaceful resolution of the crisis, again, the crisis, i emphasize this, this is how they see the crisis, contribute to the construction of a balanced, effective and sustainable architecture of european security. china is ready to continue to play a constructive role in the political settlement of ukraine, once again. crises in their own way, mr. maksym, they have read sidzen pinya, let’s get rid of the terminology, optical formulations and everything else, so to speak, so why did i actually propose the beginning, because the real plan, well, no peaceful, not us, not the establishment of peace, but at least an end to some...