so, i congratulate you again, this is the verdict program and the next 45 minutes, i am with you, my name is vasyl zema, and this is what will be discussed in the second part of our program. historic decision in luxembourg, ukraine. to the european union: how soon will the country become european and what does the path to the eu mean for ukrainian authorities and citizens? peace in ukraine in chinese and russian. putin calls ukraine's capitulation plan a peace proposal, while xi jinping is looking for his own way to resolve the crisis. where will these paths lead the dictators? there will be answers. conclusions:

zelensky promises government officials a serious conversation about the situation in donetsk region, should we expect further personnel rotations in the government? well, now i will join our guests, i will just say two words, since we are still talking about what happened, the national team of ukraine is returning, well, not home, because most of the players will go to rest somewhere outside of ukraine. euro ended for the national team of ukraine 0:0 with belgium, and of course, a draw was expected. romania and slovakia played, and actually we are returning with four points, well as they say, we are leaving germany, but not about that. poll now: do you have alternative sources of electricity for your property, that's the question, if so, 0800 211381, if not, 080021382. please take our survey, we're interested to find out. to what extent ukrainians

are preparing, are they already ready for a blackout, because in the summer it is one story, in the fall, and especially in the winter, it is a completely different story. maksym the smart, political expert, doctor of political sciences will be with us, mr. maksym, if you can hear and see me, good evening, good evening, congratulations, congratulations, and oleg sayakyan, political scientist, co-founder of the national platform of stability and cohesion, mr. oleg, i also congratulate you, good evening, my congratulations, glad to see and hear. and of course i can't help but ask you what i just asked our viewers: do you have alternative sources of electricity for your home, yes or no, mr. maxim, please, i don't even know what to call it, i have there is a special battery, or the so -called oops, which should power the router for wi-fi, nothing else, mr. oleg, thanks own alternatively.

i am talking to you now on battery power, the only thing is that the alternative internet has not worked out yet, so i apologize if there are problems with communication, but the light, the computer, the camera, all this works now just from the battery, well, later it would be possible to find out the technologies, but now for sure we, i think that we will give it some air time and talk about what can really be done with limited, let's say , financial opportunities, well, most importantly , ukrainians certainly do not have huge possibilities, but still... something can be done, especially if there is also an understanding of how to do it, but still, we will start with ukraine's path to europe, the beginning, as president zelenskyi said, actual, real negotiations on accession of ukraine to the european union. mr. maxim, in your opinion, how long can it take, what can hinder or what can speed up this process? in general, but yes, only, let me, because you see, today on the replacement is not... always catches everything at once, what

should happen, so i ask you to excuse me. now we let's listen to president volodymyr zelenskyi, and then we'll talk. and until today we were. a state that has obtained the status of a candidate for accession, but there could not be full confidence yet whether we will realize this status, and as of today, it is already a certainty that ukraine will definitely be a full member of the european union. the question now is in the technical work of ukraine with the european union in the adaptation of our system to the eu, and in the political one. the will of europe, to make the european project truly complete, and so the president said about the technical ones moments now, but mr. maxim, again, how far this process can stretch, what can hinder it, or what can

speed it up, please, i would say that for now we imagine this process in ourselves in such a, you know, mythological first of all, you see, if you compare it with other countries that joined the eu, our path is very specific, that is, we introduced the constitution, the corresponding commitments, plans, i don’t know what to call it, now we are talking about the fact that the path has finally begun, although it is long, so to speak, but how will it turn out path, it is very difficult to say today, because it depends on two thirds of how ukraine will develop and how the european union will develop, that is, it is an equation with two unknowns, well, with ukraine, the instability of ukraine and our path, it seems clear here, the war continues, political instability is possible

after the end of hostilities and during election campaigns and so on, the word turbulence is enough for us, but also the european union, its trajectory to date is also not... completely clear, given the internal problems, given the positioning in the world, in view of the skepticism about the expansion and so on, therefore even the analogy, according to which today they talk about some terms, how other countries joined, it does not work, because other countries also joined under different conditions, well, of course, that it will not be soon, it is clear that it will be for... years, i would say so, mr. oleg, the actual question is the same, i can only repeat, maybe our viewers, who just joined now, have not heard, but real negotiations , actual negotiations, as president zelensky said, regarding ukraine's accession to of the european union, how long it can take and what can speed up this process, and

what can prevent it, its acceleration, because in general prevent its normal course, well, except for the situation related to the war, because we cannot get anywhere now, the war continues, unfortunately. i would not now speak in the category of terms, first of all, since it is really unknown how many years it will take, i absolutely agree with mr. maxim on this. in general, if we talk about the european integration process, it has always been like this for ukrainians worldview character, there was not a rational, but an irrational, attitude towards it, because the european union was associated with all the good things that we want to get in ukraine, all those standards, that well-being, that guaranteed. attention to the individual and many other things, at the same time we looked at the european union with rose-colored glasses, often not seeing its reverse side and the many problems with which it is connected, and therefore currently the european integration process of ukraine, it is entering, i would i would say in the phase of just finishing the candy-bouquet

period and such a kind of work is already being done on, well , let's call it a marriage contract, because they call the european union... a family of european states, well , it turns out to be a somewhat polyamorous family, but nevertheless, it is now beginning a period when it takes stock of what , how, under what conditions, with what baggage, with what vices, on the contrary, ukraine will get there. the first stage now is about the fundamental foundations of the european union, and here it is the easiest: the first stage is a negotiation, it is actually not where we will bargain, where we have to respond criteria, although there will be one specific question regarding... national minorities and communities, where hungary has already put up a number of lists, and it is obvious that it falls into the first cluster, and therefore there will also be a place for bargaining here, but for now on the first parameter here the ball is in our court, and in fact a significant part are requirements that we simply have to

meet, then it begins in terms of economic, agricultural, trade, many different parameters, there will be a number of sectoral negotiations, and this is where we open up new difficulties. because this new stage of negotiations, in which ukraine already needs to approach with a cool head, cannot be compensated for by heroism and skill. in general, our european integration process, like many other processes of ours. to the state, he reminded the march of a hero who overcomes some challenges in front of him, heroically overcoming them, achieving the desired result. and what is the phenomenon of ukrainian heroism in general? well, very often this is a phenomenon that has a rather negative nature, it is called closing with human achievement, individual superpowers, system failures and incapacity, and in european integration, it is also very often the meandering itself. of ukrainian society, certain heroic steps of society, they compensated for the inability

of the state apparatus to deal with european integration in a planned, unhurried way, and now the state apparatus will face this challenge: it is necessary to demonstrate the ability, first, to determine priorities, which is strategically important for us, and what is secondary. in many negotiations, we will have to sacrifice certain of our positions, and we must clearly understand why we can sacrifice, and what will we stand for... a dopin in the mouth, in the mouth. the second point, for this it is necessary to establish a communication system, both internally and externally. negotiators in various sectors with the european union, we need to defend our interest, and these should be professional people, and lawyers, and negotiators, and diplomats, these are different specialties, and at any moment it is their expertise that will be needed, and it is important not to replace it. because sometimes they have a legal document to work with, and sometimes they have professional negotiators who will not allow it escalation, but next to that, it is also a process. coordination of these interests within society, work with business associations, with industry associations, starting with

it professionals, ending with artists, artists, sportsmen and all others. in all these directions, ukraine must have a firm position in the negotiations with the european union, so the third and last thing i would like to mention now is very important, it is more important than ever the ability to work with one's own society and trust in the government, current and future, because authentically. the integration process will be completed already under the new ukrainian government, because it will go beyond one electoral cycle, and this government should have the opportunity to return to society and say: here we will hold our horses a little bit, because at the moment our hands are being twisted, because at the moment some country makes those demands that we cannot comply with for the sake of the future, where i will tell you, the polish politician, former deputy of the european parliament pawel kowal, said that there will be countries that will extend their terms, understanding that... ukraine has to go through this process, but in in any case, it is always more difficult to integrate in a large country than, relatively speaking,

in moldova, and therefore, by the way, i, as a native, you mentioned about the natives, as a writer, i, for example, will very gladly wait for ukraine to join the european union , a common market, and maybe then copyrights will be respected, they will cost the same as in the european union, and they will treat it differently, so there will be many positive moments, but many things need to be changed in attitudes, in consciousness, and most importantly, of course, not the most important thing, but definitely... it is important in the fight against corruption, and not to say, i will not, it is like a quote that corruption is everywhere, and in ukraine it is not the biggest, this does not justify anything, i can only signal that we have not started these negotiations and god grant that all of this will be successful, and now i'm talking about putin's and sydzipin's proposal, i 'll put it in quotation marks, these are peaceful proposals, because they are not peaceful for ukraine. or again, this is a hybrid peace, this is not the peace we seek, not a permanent peace, i will first read

what the self-proclaimed president of the country said aggressor, russian dictator vladimir putin declared that his peace proposals in quotation marks once again supposedly realistically provide for the possibility of ending the war in ukraine. in his address to the participants of the international scientific and expert forum, putin noted: they expect that, unlike many western politicians, who did not even want to delve into the essence of the proposed. the initiative, the participants of the forum will be able to see that it really provides an opportunity to stop the conflict and move to its political and diplomatic settlement, and then i, or let's hurry up and discuss this idea of ​​putin's, and then i'll quote and - how it will be in ukrainian, in russian, he's not the president there, he's, well, the chairman, so be it, chairman people's republic of china. and putin says that they did not study what i proposed, so let's

study here on the forum now, and a really good proposal, how to end the war, if you study what putin means, mr. maxim, you know, maybe i a little, so to speak, harming your idea, quoting putin and commenting on him separately, because i would still start with a position and an opinion. we planned it that way, but i think i thought that let's do this... together , as they say, the leader of china, xi jinping, at a meeting with the president of poland, andrzej duda , said that beijing will look for ways to resolve the crisis in ukraine, as they call it, again in quotation marks, the crisis in ukraine, because it is not a crisis, it is a full-scale war. in its own way, it is necessary, this is a quote: it is necessary to make efforts to prevent the expansion and intensification of the conflict, to reduce tensions and create conditions for peace negotiations. china

encourages and supports all efforts that contribute to a peaceful resolution of the crisis. again, the crisis emphasizes this, they see it as a crisis, and contributes to the construction of a balanced, effective and sustainable architecture of european security. china is ready to continue to play a constructive role in the political settlement of the ukrainian crisis, again in its own way. mr. maksym, we have read pinya's seat, let's please avoid the terminology, optical formulations and everything, so to speak otherwise, then... why did i actually propose to start the conflict, because the real plan, well, not peace, not us, not the establishment of peace, but at least the end of hostilities at some stage , that is what he says, this plan for today the day is already, so to speak, outlined quite clearly as the prospect

of freezing the conflict, freezing - this means the cessation of active... hostilities, actually what happened in donbas between 15 and 22. cessation of active hostilities without ee significant, er, institutional, er, so to speak, obligations of the parties. that is, after that, negotiations, bidding and everything else begin. this is what china offers, and not only in this statement, but also in previous ones. we remember the gradual reduction in... the second, which involves the cessation of arms supplies, the cessation of external support, and so on, the ceasefire, well, we remember from the minsk agreements how it happened, at first large calibers were prohibited there and so on, and if we're in the context of this

freeze plan that's actually being proposed china today. uh, let's look at putin's quote, then we understand its true meaning. it consists in the fact that this negotiation process, or, to put it simply, bargaining, er, what is at stake there are membership in nato, sanctions, well, actually, these are the two main lots that are being played out there, er, withdrawal sanctions, what is of interest to russia, and membership in nato, what is of interest to ukraine, but we... may be less interested in nato. everything else is what is called optional, as it sounds harmless and uncynical to us, even the territorial issue is ukrainian, in this case it is not fundamental for those parties, the west and the east, which are negotiating. that is, putin in this case simply broadcasts this

peaceful, relatively speaking, xi jinping's plan in quotation marks, and presents his own. well, how, so to speak, like an ordinary shopkeeper from st. petersburg, setting a very high price, the maximum that he can imagine, here is the question, here is another question, mr. oleg, well, actually, he will also comment, i will ask you to comment on the statement of both putin and sizenpinnya, but he puts this price, as of now what happens on the front line, we understand that a lot will determine... until november, when the presidential elections will be held in the usa, we understand that a lot will also depend on their results, and i am leading that the situation may change when this already too high price of putin will be reduced by him, because i will simply remind our viewers that at one time putin said, well, at least as they say, putin was told and his mustache was sanded , meaning that there is no one

to talk to in ukraine, because in ukraine illegitimate government, the term of office of the president has expired and with who is there, and then with... but no, no, no, there is someone to talk to, zelenskyi, it is written there in the constitution, that is, they somehow very quickly understood what is there, it turns out who to talk to, so maybe over time after certain events on the front and other insights, and the price will fall , putin's, and the pretensions, it will decrease, please understand that time has a very serious effect on where the framework is moving, russia is gaining ground, putin is trying to declare ultimatums, ukraine is gaining ground in... . there is a space to tighten the collar around the neck of putin's regime. i would on one more point would draw attention in sidzimpin's statement, in everything else absolutely. with that said, these are the elements of a european security statement. china, in fact, behind the freezing

of the russian-ukrainian war still sees another moment and an opportunity within it to become a co-shareholder in european security, as a guarantor that the russian-ukrainian war remains frozen, as the one who restrains putin and russia in the muzzle, and accordingly thus enter as a guarantor. security, as one of the elements of the construction of european security from russia for european states, precisely this was dedicated to dzimpin's visits to paris, serbia and hungary, both economically and security-wise. with hungary, this is an element of pressure already on nato, the fact that now hungary can play not only in the interests of moscow, but also in the interests of china, and in the event that there is nato . will expand its influence on the indo-pacific region, become more actively involved there, what the united states wants to do is interaction with japan, and korea, south, etc., then in this way

china will enter the european space, blocking transatlantic initiatives with the middle, and nato, due to the factor of european states, the risks that will be created there will be converted into european ones and vice versa, if the chinese role in europe in ensuring security grows. then he will convert it into a violation of transatlantic unity, in order for europe to maintain autonomy and separateness from the american policy in the pacific region and the indo-pacific, that is why the chinese interest is here, it is not only in playing its role in the russian-ukrainian war, in in order to convert it into your own geopolitical influence, but that all this is earned and all these interests are promoted and issues are resolved at our expense, we have no more people, unfortunately, people die, the infrastructure is destroyed, we lose finances, even, well, in general, the prospect, it becomes

so non-obvious, i mean the prospect of ukraine's development, ukraine will be, of course, but again, many things are becoming non-obvious, regarding the return of ukrainians home. the question is when it is possible to sit down to talk, when it can happen, and whether it really is, if, for example, conditionally saying, donald is winning in the united states of america. trump says: yes, we all sit down, because there is no time, we will not talk. and will it be accepted in ukraine, in a country that in our country, that laid tens of thousands, here we can say hundreds of thousands of people who died in this great war. please, mr. lesa, clarification for you, and then mr. maksym can answer, please. well, here part of the answer already lies in this very claim of china, the opposite is positive, let's say, or? and the other side of this is that it is a conversation now about the freezing of the russian-ukrainian war - this is actually a conversation about a precedent that will affect the overall european

security, therefore not only ukraine, but also a large part of european states will not agree to such a scenario under any circumstances, and some of them will definitely not agree in general, for the admission of china in the fact that they have their share, especially a critical share in ensuring european security, therefore , where there is a problem, next to it... there is also an answer to this question. the second part is related to trump, let's say, and what he is will really try to approach the projectile, it is obvious, and will try to solve the russian-ukrainian war quickly, by the method of simple solutions, but it will not succeed, the scale of the war is different , the intensity of the war is different, the shoulder is different, in particular in the mechanisms that are proposed, well, for example, the idea trump's plan was to stop the war in 24 hours, saying that ukraine will have no weapons, and if russia does not go to negotiations, then ukraine will receive everything necessary to defeat russia. well, the first point: we lived for six months without american aid, and ukraine did not come the next day and said: "okay,

we give up." six months. that is, trump has no way to quickly force ukraine to do something with the help of american aid. at least this has already been demonstrated. the second point is that european countries will not agree to this, and it will break the transatlantic unity, and vice versa, the level of determination in europe will increase. not quantitatively, but qualitatively. and the third important point. okay, this is a working scheme in case one side wants to negotiate and the other side doesn't want to force it. and we imagine the situation, no neither russia nor ukraine agrees to sit down at the negotiating table. yes, to whom to send and to whom not to send weapons? everything, the logical clinch of this formula. therefore, terrible, simple solutions. they only look good and easy, in fact, they are extremely difficult to implement, they show their reverse side very quickly, completely. about simple solutions, i will start with mr. maksym, if you want, mr. maksym, you can add here that all this is being solved at the expense of ukraine, and while they are thinking how to freeze, not to freeze,

what is there... where are some contacts now, well , lloyd austin and this bilausov and the minister of defense of russia have contacted for the first time in a year and a half, but we are losing every day, the question is that we are losing every day, and the ukrainian people are certainly not will agree to give something, well, but again, but about how simple solutions and, well, this is a phrase, it is associated with representatives of the current government, who offered simple solutions in many things, of course, legendary. became a story about teachers' salaries of $400, which it was supposed to be only 200 million, and then it turned out that it was much more, i miscalculated the column, but the issue here is not that trust in president zelensky began to decrease, i did not make this up, these are data from the razumkov center, which, by the way, one cannot suspect that there is work against the president's office or in any opposition activity there or against anyone, it is a fairly well-considered work, quite well-known, well-known and already... with

a certain long history of groups, the sociological social group, the rozumkov center, and which has been working for quite a long time in ukraine and so on 13% lost confidence in president zelenskyi , 90% confidence in the army, there are different parliaments, the sbu, but here it is important, whether the people really care, and what do we want, we all understand that we will not have elections, but trust is falling, is it possible should the approaches of the authorities be changed now, and how to change, what to do? it is more difficult to come up with a decision, whether to show it, whether to arrange a public one, a public one, there is a good word, but you can’t say it on the air, the punishment of mykola tyshchenko, mr. maksym, well, by the way, i would start with what my colleague, mr. oleg sahakyan, concluded that ukrainians will not agree to

simple solutions, to... concessions, any, you know, over the past six months, the mood of society has changed very much, i cannot operate it with large databases of sociological surveys, but even the fact that , so to speak, those reactions to the raids of the tsk, t-shirts with the inscription uhylyant and so on, all this is impossible to imagine, so to speak, in... the first year of the war, in the second year of the war and so on, now it becomes possible, now society, as we say, today, this word agrees, and i would consider this decrease in trust in zelenskyi or in the institution of the president, uh, well, as far as i understand, the poll still says personally, as a symptom

of this... change in the mood of society, the loss of such a person, i would called mobilization, and such a word is used a lot, in different contexts, in different meanings, about this mobilization, we are gradually losing this mobilization for various reasons, for natural reasons, well, because the war has been going on, as you say, ukrainians are dying and the country is really declining and loses not only light, electricity, but also... eh, who not only die, who leave and so on, and in this context, what to do, a political solution, a political solution is not visible to me in this situation, well, i mean ideas about some coalition government there or something else, a very simple example, if this loss of trust in zelensky was converted into an increase in

trust... in other politicians, one could say that this is a normal way and it is a way out of the situation, at this stage it is about the loss of trust in state institutions, and without, so to speak to say, filling these state institutions with trust, with precedents that give grounds for this trust, nothing will work, i hear you want to ask something, no, no, no, i'm just here... listen to mr. oleg on this matter, and then we will listen to president zelenskyi, who came to donetsk region and arranged there again, well, this is not demonstrative, because i understand very well, after seeing what is happening in donetsk region, the president understands that some officials should have been there and decided a lot problems that we are talking about things, every day we include different regions and listen to what problems there are, and very often these problems are not solved, but because of simple solutions and the decline of the decline.