what happened in bolivia? the military entered the government quarter of lapas on armored vehicles, but did not seize power. the generals who brought them were arrested, but the opposition claims that the putsch attempt was staged and false. on the president, so what happened, what consequences will it have, we are talking about it on the bbc, live from london, i am yevgenia shedlovska. so, the general was arrested, the coup was stopped, the president of bolivia, luis arce, retained power. this is how he appealed, threatening that if ukraine joins nato, it will be a disaster. while disaster, this is an organizational country with opportunities, democracy must be respected. and yesterday, on the same square in front of the presidential palace. and the parliament, there were hundreds of soldiers with

armored vehicles, the military tried to storm the presidential palace, one car broke through the doors of the building, all this happened under the leadership of general juan jose sunya, the former commander of the armed forces. he was released the day before these events. soniga said he wants, as he said, to rebuild democracy. at the same time, president arce called on the public to organize and mobilize for the sake of democracy. he reported that he had brought in a new leadership of the army and the new commander ordered the military to retreat from the palace, that is, after a few hours the military withdrew and the police took the square under their control and arrested general sunya, he was brought out in handcuffs like this in front of the crowd that interestingly, before the arrest, the general told reporters that it was allegedly president arce himself who ordered him to stage a staged coup in order to increase his rating and be able to prosecute. opponents, that was his

statement and another military man arrested because of attempted mutiny, former naval commander vice admiral juan arnes-salvador. so, after several tense hours, bolinia's defense minister assured that the army was under control and said the rebels' aim was to overthrow the democratically elected government. those responsible will have to face all the consequences, both civil and military justice. in this regard , i want to inform the bolivian people of what happened yesterday and today with our armed forces, which i command as a minister, it happened because of some bad soldiers, it is a shame and a dark spot. well, the representatives of the bolivian authorities reject the claim that the president could have been involved in this coup attempt, this is how it was stated, as the arrested general stated it, the ambassador of bolivia said on the bbc that... it was an attempted coup d'état,

which was organized by general zuniga. we condemn this attempted sedition. we have the broad support of the international community, many of our neighbors in latin america, eu member states, and the un secretary general. bolivians respect democracy, are fighting for democracy, stability and peace in our country. we reject the accusations that are being made, they are lies. how can we trust the military. who violate the constitution and rebel against the illegal government that the people elected in 2020 after the coup in 2019. we care about democracy, we fight for our stability, to make the life of bolivians better after the crisis that hit not only our country, but and all over the world. after the pandemic, many countries were affected. many developing countries, not only bolivia, facing the. crises and other

difficulties, but from the side of the authorities we are doing everything in our power. i do not imagine that this general pleaded guilty. i think he makes such statements to avoid responsibility. but after he was arrested, we received information from our officials that he admitted that he had attempted a coup d'état. actually, who is general juan jose sunga? he was the commander of the armed forces of bolivia from 2020. in the 2nd year and the day before the coup attempt, he was dismissed from his post. why? he said that will arrest former president evo morales if he goes to the elections next year, he has already announced this. morales ruled the country for a long time, from 2006 to 2019, he was ousted amid post-election protests. he left the country and, by the way, morales was the first ethnic indian in this position. and now between morales and the current president arce goes.

the struggle for control of the ruling socialist party mas, that's a bit of context, more on that later, but back to the last attempted mutiny, so general sunya was sent to resignation, he... refused to say, to draw up the credentials, what happened next, we have already seen, whether it is clear what actually happened, what was the purpose, we asked the bbc correspondent munto, this is the bbc's spanish-language service, anna maria roura. bolivia has a history of political instability. in the past , there have been many coup attempts in the country, and yesterday we saw troops in the street, we saw general juan jose zuniga leading this movement of soldiers. tanks that approached government institutions. we also saw people who took to the streets to to protect democracy. the country's president, louis arsene, called it an attempted coup d'état, and general juan hasosuniga was arrested as the leader of the movement. before his arrest, he said that he was trying

to rebuild democracy in the country. he also said that he had a meeting with president luis arce last sunday, and he apparently asked him to put the tanks in the street, in order to... boost his ratings, so now we have two versions of what happened, but we don't we can confirm which one is real. currently, two generals have been arrested. prosecutors say that these generals are responsible for what happened yesterday in bolivia. general juan jose soniga has led the army in bolivia since 22, but was fired on tuesday after threatening former bolivian president eva morales. jose zunigo is very close, for example, to the trade unions, to the miners, to the workers of the mining industry in bolivia. he likes to call himself the general of the people and he was very close to the vlada mas party. speaking about yesterday's events, it should be added that all this is happening in a very critical moment for bolivia. people have already protested in the streets because of the deep

economic crisis in the country. in addition, there was a crisis with the dollar, as well as an internal political crisis within the mas party, which has been in power for the past 20 years. former president evo morales and... president louis sarsé are now fighting over who will represent the party in the next election. so, this internal political crisis is part of the context of the coup attempt that we saw yesterday. many leaders, both in latin america and, for example, of the european union, supported president luis arce. many analysts in bolivia say this will affect his growing popularity, but it remains to be seen whether it will have any impact in the future, such as during the 2025 elections. indeed, there has been an economic crisis in bolivia, and prices are rising, one of the reasons for this crisis is the reduction of gas exports, and political instability will not contribute to economic growth. here is what a journalist from lapas told about life in bolivia. after yesterday's protests in bolivia,

as we have seen, the minister of defense assured the population that there was no cause for concern, that the armed forces were under complete... control , and that everything was fine. however, this morning there was a sense that people are scared, there are queues for gas, people are buying things in case something happens in the near future. the former commander of the armed forces was publicly arrested, but after his statements that it was president luis arce who ordered him to deliver an armored vehicle to the central square. people began to suspect that the bund had organized it himself the government or the party of vlady masaba. thus increasing the level of support for president arsa and distracting people from the crisis that has engulfed the country. we live in a crisis, for example, there are no american dollars in circulation in bolivia. you can

get up to $100 in the bank per day or up to $300 per week. these are clear limitations. the prices of products have also increased significantly. for example, several weeks. that's why tomatoes were extremely expensive, also now transport company workers are protesting all over the country, doctors are protesting, so the situation is now crisis, people are worried and buy everything in case things get worse. chile, ecuador, peru, mexico, colombia, venezuela, brazil, condemned the actions of the military in bolivia, in the united states, called for calm, but... what does this attempted coup mean for the country? my colleague george erman follows events in latin america and says: neighboring countries are very concerned that tanks were able to enter the presidential palace in la paz, and this is why: and bolivia,

unfortunately, has a long military history coups, about 200 military coups and attempted military coups, much of history. this country is ruled by military juntas, and military dictators, and the reputation of these military dictators was. mainly as brutal tyrants who fought their political opponents, who persecuted the opposition, used torture and even political assassinations against the opposition, bolivia is experiencing a political crisis due to the fact that the once monolithic party of the movement towards socialism, which first came to power in in 2006, it split into factions, incumbent president luis arce and former president evo morales, who lost power

in 2019, due to protests and establishment by the opposition among the police and military, in 2020 luis arce won the election, evo morales then did not could run for office, and louis orsay is perceived as such a moderate president in comparison. zev morales, who was friends with other famous left-wing leaders in latin america, such as kuga chavas or rafael correa, the ex-president of ecuador. louis arce is perceived as a technocrat of social-democratic views, of course, but more moderate in both foreign policy and economic issues. bolivia is one of the. of the countries of latin america due to the lack of access to the sea, due to

the dominance of such old practices in the economy, bolivia is one of the least developed countries in south america, that is, for example, the per capita income in this country is slightly ahead of venezuela and nicaragua, which, as we know that the economy has been in an economic crisis for a long time. this country has now made such a big leap in the last 15 years, the country has huge resources, huge deposits of minerals, including lithium, which is very important for the production of batteries for electric cars, so bolivia is considered quite a promising country, but the level of poverty is quite high, the level the incomes of the population are quite... low and at the same time there is a regional disparity within bolivia itself, and between

the eastern and western regions, the western regions where minerals are mined, ah, mainly ores, and the eastern regions where mined oil, and there is a developed agriculture, and where the right-wing opposition is in power, not socialists, and at the same time the income of the population is a little less, three a little more than... in the western regions, that is, there is such a geographical split within the country, and under these conditions, bolivia does not play a significant role in international politics, it does not exist, it does not belong to the leaders of the latin american region, but peace and stability in this country are, of course , important, important for all its neighbors, of which there are quite a few in bolivia, including brazil, argentina, and peru, and... and that's why the neighbors naturally reacted negatively to this attempt

at a military coup, although, well, every latin american country has a long history of military coups, in the past, and in the 19th century, in the 20th century, and the vast majority and right-wing and left-wing forces do not want the return of the era of military coups, military hunts, huh, what? and you can also read about the attempted military coup in bolivia on our website bbc.ua, the general who led the assault on the presidential palace in la paz was arrested, the president condemned the attempt putsch well, subscribe to our pages on social networks, we are on facebook, instagram, tiktok and youtube. i say goodbye to you until tomorrow, see you.

obviously, everyone guessed this, they obviously talked about it in social networks, as they used to say in kitchens now, now they say in comments on social networks that in fact there are still problems with corruption in ukraine, despite the full-scale invasion of the russian federation, but now, in my opinion , well , the number of comments, even if you watch our broadcast on youtube of the project, speaks for itself greater lviv, with regard to corruption in

the ukrainian government, well, it is off the charts, and here you have to, you know, decide, and this is very important. where are the bots, where is the russian ipso, and where are the ukrainian citizens who really want everything to improve in this state, even in the face of a full-scale invasion, and this is one of the important topics that we will talk about today in the project , velikiy lviv also says let's talk about the situation at the front, what is there, because the russians, although they lost in may according to the information of international experts, the russians lost every day over a thousand their soldiers on the territory of our state, but at the same time, with their meat assaults, they often achieve such intermediate, far from strategic and even tactical, results, and a very difficult situation in the energy industry in lviv, since the full-scale invasion, these are definitely the most difficult days , there is simply

no light for 10-12 hours, traffic lights do not work, but generators work near all shopping centers and shops, life goes on and... we welcome all our viewers on the espresso tv channel. glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, thank you joined us. traditionally, we start this broadcast with vitaly portnikov, he is with us on skype. and indeed, what we talked about in the first part of the broadcast, mr. vitaly, you said that these are russian methods, they work like that. it seems that they just want to break us psychologically, especially these people who remain in the rear, because it affects us, there is no electricity now, and there may not be any water, and the expert is talking about this. they say, we need to prepare for this, and what our plan of action in all this can be, let's try it to speak up, i.e. what should we do as citizens, what should we demand from our government now, in order to improve this situation, or vice versa, i don't know, keep calm and just understand that we have to go through it, well,

first of all, we need to speak honestly with people , secondly, you need to think about how to create mobile power supply systems. this again needs to be discussed with an expert, you and i are journalists, we have no idea how it might look alternatively, but this should be remembered, at least when it comes to big cities, because we can end up in a very difficult situation. thirdly, it is necessary to prepare for the fact that if the humanitarian situation worsens, the country's emigration will increase, it may also gain new momentum, and those people who... wished that their countrymen had left there because of the war for the first time there are months of war, will be forced to join them, simply because they may not have heating and water in high-rise buildings, and this is also a reality that can be absolutely obvious in the first months of winter, so you have to think about it and you have to

think , how to make the life of these people so that could they stay in... ukraine? this is also a very important question, i think, because we have to remember that these departures, they will still have an impact on the economy, people will leave, they will lose their jobs, and so it will be problems with enterprises, and this will also be related to problems with the economy, related to mobilization, that's what the kremlin is thinking about, as you understand, what i'm telling you, it's being discussed at meetings in... the kremlin and this, to things are not an invention, russians, this was the case during the war of the united states against the regime of saddam hussein, the united states tried to destroy the iraqi infrastructure so that the population would rise up against saddam hussein and not have to carry out some kind of operation against his regime, well, they miscalculated, until

things, the population did not rise up, because saddam hussein had a very strong vertical, a powerful vertical. violence that prevented the fall of the regime. the regime fell only when the army fell, when the army lost, the american army, but nevertheless, this tactic of, let's say, bringing the population to the infrastructural sense, so to speak, it is used in modern wars, because now it is very much a person depends on the infrastructure, as it was not yet in the past, as you understand, during the past wars, when the people there... had a different type of heating, they had a different type of water supply, and even now you understand that the people who, let's say, have some kind of heating there in high-rise buildings with coal. or gas, this is a completely different situation than in houses where everything is on electricity, and people will have completely different opportunities

this winter, this must also be realized, well, with water supply, these are different things, it’s one thing when you live in some a private house, you have some kind of generator there, you brought some water reserves there, or in a five -story house, where you just bring water every day and... imagine that you live in a 35-story building somewhere in kyiv or in a 20-story building, you don’t apply, right? especially if the bodice doesn't work for you because there is no light, well, i'm just, there are just elementary things that you just need to think about and what to do with it, and if people will just hope for the state, but that's not very the right approach, especially knowing the level of efficiency of the state and local self-government in ukraine, everyone should think about how to survive in those conditions . as a resident of the 13th floor in lviv, i confirm that there are already problems and there is no water, when there is no light, there is simply no question of

heating as well. mr. vitaly, what do you think, well, you said that the kremlin is sitting, discussing these scenarios, and they really see that these scenarios can work, and that our western partners, well, for example, there were a lot of conversations about the fact that there, well , maybe... the sky is not completely covered by the air defense of our entire state, because it is very difficult, but at least there conditionally in the west of the state to allow the use of anti-aircraft systems located on the territory of nato countries. there were talks about it, we hoped that this would happen, do you think that when they see how the ukrainian infrastructure is being destroyed, can they at least take some more effective steps in relation to the vs. air defense, because it will really be difficult to survive the winter, and all these migrants, people who will not be able to live in the territory of ukraine and will go to poland,

to other countries, they will have to accept them, will have to, well, i don’t know , that it is easier for them to accept migrants, or risk some kind of direct conflict with russia, why is this a choice in their head, i can't change their choice, i keep saying that russia will not attack nato, but by the way, you know that i... out of the few, i say so, our leaders, and ukrainian journalists, many say that russia is ready for a conflict with nato, that it is ready to attack latvia, lithuania and estonia, that it is not afraid of such a conflict, well, if we ourselves tell them that russia can attack nato, and what is for it there are no restrictions, why should we be surprised after that that they are afraid of such a conflict and try to stop russia somehow to provoke, if we keep telling them they're next, maybe if we stop... telling them they're next, let's tell them they're safe in a conflict with russia and that they should help us get through it conflict, it will be more logical, no? we

tell them that too all the time. no, we keep saying that tomorrow there could be a war with them too. i just always proceed from a different thesis, i say that the countries that joined nato, and that is why they differ from ukraine. let's say they will enjoy peace because russia don't dare to attack a block that has nuclear weapons, uh, and so they may not fear that if they destroy the russian planes over there, at least on their territory, or missiles, let alone ours, they may not fear a war, but when i say this, in fact, only one, and a chorus of voices of ukrainian politicians, experts say, you will be attacked tomorrow, well, let's shoot down russian missiles, then forgive me, it looks a little schizophrenic, it's true, when we say that we protect everyone from russia because if russia wins us, she will attack nato, then maybe it is in the interests of nato that this continues as long as possible,

so that they are not attacked, in this logic, i say again, maybe we need to stop saying that russia will attack nato, change this roach, to say that russia is not going to attack nato, and that is why we want nato, that we will not be attacked then, that there is no risk, that if we are in nato, there will be peace. that we, that we were attacked precisely because our society did not want to join nato, that we made this historical mistake, but enough is enough, so to speak, we atone in a terrible way, and maybe we can already be taken into nato so that we are not destroyed by what is left, maybe we should say that, and not say that we are a fortress that protects the west from russia, well, a fortress, so let's break this fortress, let's look further, it's always been the same when the enemy stands near the fortress, he supposedly moves on, then everyone tries to make this fortress... eat, and then they say, my god, the entire garrison of the fortress died, what a disaster, or maybe we not fortresses, but the final destination, at least in europe, if we... so be it

if we accept it, then maybe it will be easier for us to become a part of this world, of course, there will be less pride, but then there will be more security, well, in this situation, we simply have to become part of nato and realize that russia will not fight with nato, because if we say that russia will fight for nato, then we have nowhere to go, what can we say then, why do we want to report at all, why are we... worried that we will not be invited to nato again in july of this year, if it turns out that war with nato in russia is not avoided, well, i don't understand, to be honest, me i want to make some logical assumptions all the time and i don't meet them all the time, unfortunately. a brief clarification, an interesting opinion, a change of concept, in principle, the positioning of ukraine in this geopolitical big game, but if we start talking about it, that we... that is

, we are moving towards nato no longer as a fortress, but as a place that will not be attacked russia, obviously we will have to, perhaps, take unpopular steps and give up those territories that were seized by the russian federation, because while we still have the strength to win back, well, obviously, it is not always enough, i will say so diplomatically, but nato does not accept countries with unresolved territorial conflicts, the world is changing, i will say that there is, there was a proposal to invite ukraine to nato with the provision of security guarantees for this territory, which is under the control of the legitimate ukrainian authorities, i do not i think we should give up the territory, legally, in fact, you know, we can't give up what we don't control, we don't control these territories, to give them up from the point of view of international law is absolutely unacceptable, because we are so in this way we are betraying our own values ​​and the values

​​of the world to which we want to join... but we can say that we will resolve this situation politically if russia stops hostilities, if we receive a security guarantee from nato. this may be a solution to the problem in the future. we will receive security guarantees for the territory we control. russia agrees to a cease -fire, we are accepted into nato, and the territories that we did not win back, we return to... control over them by political means, by waiting for changes in the position of the russian federations, if they will be at all at some time, i am sure that they will be sooner or later, because russia will not be able to exist like this outside of international law for decades, but i ask you again, even with all the logic of such a statement, such a statement of the question why is russia doing it, so the west will have to take a risk at a certain point

when it... the idea that first we have to defeat russia and then join nato, i think it's a mockery of ukraine, even when president biden says it, because what means to win, hold a parade in moscow and then join nato, i always say that if they look at us like that, then i apologize, it is not us who should join nato, but nato should join us if we can defeat a nuclear superpower , the largest in the world next to the united states. it is the nato countries that should ask us to include them in ukraine, and not us countries that want to join nato, but we really understand our capabilities, right? therefore, western countries must understand this, or threaten russia, they are also afraid of force, depending on whether this force, as it is, and whether it will be enough for them too, you saw when president macron started talking about the possibility of nato troops being here, even in the form of instructors,

it was provoked. incredible fright among many of france's partners, and putin is absolutely calm with the kimian, as it turned out, he is discussing the issue of the presence of korean engineering troops on the territory of ukraine, which is occupied, no one is afraid of anything there, thank you vitaly portnikov, for these frank answers, the timeline was even dragged out a little, we move to our studio, where indeed, our guests were already seated and waited. good evening to everyone, we are ready to introduce those who are in our studio today and who will further participate in our conversation, we work live on the air, and in fact all the events that ukrainians are currently experiencing are historical events, and to be tangential to them, to understand them, to analyze them, this is also ours.