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after the commercials, i hope they continue to watch oksano yuranets, well, if it's very simple , he is trying to tell us as an international expert whether we should really hope for nato and the introduction to it, look , i understand that there is skepticism when you know more there, you do more, that is, it is . evaluate different situations very soberly, we just have to say frankly that, as of now, the protection of our state is our own business, but each ramstein showed that each country helps us quantitatively and qualitatively, and everyone already understood that germany is the number one in terms of this help today, so who is aware of this, and we also mentioned in this studio with you that it is not only works, and a lot of people get involved, so that they are nickname brothers and other people who can... convey

this information without expecting that it is you who then has the authority or not, you have to do it, in nato it is very interesting thing because that's the consensus and we're seeing these outbursts a lot this week everyone is discussing the new appointment of mark rootte, who has been the prime minister of the netherlands for the last 14 years, and now he will take office on october 1, and it is necessary to say that what will change, because whether jen stoltenberg wanted it or not, his mandate was constantly extended, he headed nato, now markite. who is actually a very professional politician who understands well what is happening in ukraine, his opinion was also difficult when it was necessary to change it on issues, first when we had an association, then without visas, then we had several stages, because if we think that from the 22nd year we only started talking about joining the european union, yes, and this is such a complete euro-atlantic integration of ukraine, then in fact it has been many years, and the netherlands are procedures, nato is as well as procedures and...

standards, and according to which standards and procedures we have exceeded the countries, members of nato, which have been there for a long time now and have more security without an umbrella than ukraine has, but as of now we are being criticized a lot about reforms, and scandals that are in ukraine since there by people's deputies this week and previous ones, they do not contribute to the emergence of this trust among our partners, we must understand that we are called to a society in which there are rules, and these rules cannot be violated, and as of today for us , vitaly very often says that we are afraid of becoming israel, that this is definitely our perspective, yes, and we can become lebanon, which, unfortunately, began to develop very quickly in a completely different direction in 10 years, so as of now we have a lot of work, but there are a lot of advantages, already security architecture, and the same mentioned president of the czech republic clearly said that there is no way to protect nato in the eastern flank without ukraine at all. europe, i would very much

like these countries from the eastern flank of nato to start shooting down missiles and they did not return to us and did not hit our civilian infrastructure objects, well, unfortunately , this is not the case, that is, the ukrainians still have to teach everyone to be brave, but i'll tell you that every time we meet with our partners, we don't talk about what's wrong with you, they already understand it themselves, especially since the start of full scale, we've been trying to do it since '14, every time, and we 've been looked at as the ones who don't behave like that . is there no fear for them now, that is, we are showing that you should be brave, like us, and do it faster. markiyan lopachak, captain of the armed forces of ukraine, secretary of the lviv city council to our broadcast, because mr. markiyan, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, we are talking about what we currently have in ukraine, what we can wait, let's talk with you about those scenarios of the end of the war, because... these say: what can happen, how will this

war end, what do we need to do for this, are we doing enough, is this end actually quite illusory, and the russian federation will never stop, what do you think about it this week. the candidate in the united states for the president of the united states of america trump said that he has a plan to end the war, although it looks quite utopian, the way we read it and analyzed it, because these are just some demands that he has put both ukraine and russia, but why russia should attack them, unfortunately, we still do not understand. well, look, first of all, when we talk about the end of the war, definitely sooner or later the end of the war will happen, and we are doing everything to make it end. was not on our terms and exclusively with our interests, the second point is that when we talk about the war in general and about the end of the war, how it can all happen, it will definitely be a military component situation at the front, there are gains or states, that's how it is has always happened, on the other hand, these

are also political processes, it smells good or bad accordingly, but this agreement and in the final result, someone will have to sit at that table and we will have to talk about its conclusion. as for america, trump, biden, in my opinion, we are a little bit now, well, we are trying to give too much, we are paying, rather, too much attention, and we are trying to find something there or guess what and how it will happen, well, my personal opinion, well, no one must compare the position of the president of the united states, or that trump or biden with the position of a presidential candidate and what are they saying now during the election campaign? america lives in its own interests, it has its own problems, it is necessary to play on the feelings of its voters, of course, the topic of ukraine, the russian-ukrainian war, is also on the agenda in the united states and is very acute. of course, the presidential candidates, according to the dictates of their

electoral field, will say the things that the people want more, but it must be understood that the office of the president of the united states is in first of all the president. of the united states, and then a person with the last name trump or biden, so we can also mention the positive steps that trump took when he was in the position of president, that is, there is a lot to discuss here, i think that we will end up at the end of november in december we will see the real position, and then it will be possible to talk about the real position of the president of the united states and the united states in general, but if we talk about what to expect, well, you have to understand what you have to expect from yourself. that america, germany, france, spain, any other european or any other western country, it will first of all defend its interests, will defend the interests of its people, will defend the interests of its state, and help or not help ukraine in what

amounts, how much and how often, it will also be, first of all, they will look at it from the perspective of their own national interests, so when we... talk about ending the war, i would still first of all focus on my needs and on their abilities, what we can do, what they can to make the armed forces, which can be done better by every person who is not currently involved in the defense forces, but is engaged, let's say there in the physical cities, whatever he does, whether he works at a factory, or in local self-government bodies, or in business or something further, each person must work. now, for the sake of this victory, for the sake of victory and the end of this war, only when we will be united together, and at least in this difficult period we will be united by only one goal to defeat the russian federation, this is our biggest trump card, all other moments , i.e

of course, you have to work on foreign policy, engage in foreign policy, work on foreign policy fronts, as far as i'm concerned, it's not enough... bad work can be seen, despite all the, let's say, negative moments that also slip through the media, but first of all it is our turn, we wanted to react, we will have a discussion together, both online and those who are in the studio, precisely regarding the theses of vitaly portnikov, so that we do not scare nato, i would rather calm him down, because if we remember 2014 and known events in crimea, nothing happened only because the enführer... from the kremlin warned, god forbid, one russian soldier will die, and it will be a lot of blood. accordingly , everyone got scared and simply gave crimea, let's not do anything there, don't resist, everything will be calm, but what did we get, immediately in april we got the capture of sloviansk, kramatorsk, later, ah, luhansk, donetsk

and so on , it went, it rained. well, they started to bite their teeth a little bit, if you could see, you can bite your teeth, well, but, uh,... it got worse, so he took a time-out, a break, he wanted us somehow push, this certain segment, it went, it went, we got a war in the 22nd year, eh... what putin wanted, and istanbul already prepared for us all the first goals, the achievements of the war, surrender the war, disarm the army in a controlled manner under our control, marinetka learned a lesson, it went away, they gave a fight, they gave a fight, what did they get as a result, and look, well, partners from kyiv scratched, scratched from near odeschyna, from mykolaiv... that is, they can be beaten, pushed into their constitution kherson region, zaporizhzhia

region, donetsk region, luhansk region, no-no, don't give it may god strike our sovereign territory, we strike, but nothing, nothing happened, muscovites are flying over kherson, but nothing happened, they liberated kherson and what, but nothing happened, but you can strike, but crimea, golden crimea 2014 , fly to dzhanka in sacks beats. on the military infrastructure, and that, well, well, god forbid, strike again, and there will be something else, and the red line is the crimean bridge, god forbid, crimean places, it will all fall into the world, the crimean bridge gets once, gets it, a second time, gets it a third time, the world does not fall on head, what are these partners saying, who respect muscovites from time immemorial, as it was, they respect strength, we give them... force, they bend, we bend, they stomp on us, and if we bend, and you partners

bend, yes, if, god forbid, we fall, and we do, then they will receive the so-called non-registration, as they say, non-registration is not valuable, because after ukraine, kazakhstan will go, georgia, and it is this resource, both economic and manpower, which they will not appreciate, which it is already possible in principle to threaten. further and demand certain further things, so it is possible with partners talk, you can show them on your fingers, and you won't forget it, because it's been 10 years, everything is visible, just like in the palm of your hand, taras tetskiv, well, i think that what scenarios are there now, scenarios, well , first of all, two theses that sounded in this studios, well, first of all, regarding nato, i think we should not close our eyes to the obvious, our eyes to the obvious, er... there will be neither an invitation to nato, nor membership itself, in the foreseeable

future, and this prospect is not for two years and not three and not even five, this is obvious, obvious, and what they said in vilnius in front of vilnius, they say even now, we will receive you when the conditions are fulfilled, the conditions of ukraine, and when the allies are ready, and the allies are not ready, and why the allies are not ready, first of all, the first ally is not ready, the united states of america, and so on ... it can be seen because the united states of america has this option for behind-the-scenes negotiations with russia, and this is also a fact, it's just that no one is talking about it, so we should not simply close our eyes to it, and ukraine is responsible for what nato is doing now, i think it is making a terrible mistake, it with his inaction, his fear, he is bringing the third world war closer, instead of investing in ukraine according to the full program, including military support for ukraine and at least by inviting us. to nato, it gives russia the opportunity to build up allied relations with many countries that

are in the authoritarian camp, we will now have instead, instead of solving the issue of the russian-ukrainian war by helping ukraine, we will now have 3-4-5 theaters of war actions, ultimately nato will be drawn into the war, only on much worse terms, and the price for ukraine and for nato will be much higher, and this is a rhetorical question for me, why nato. behaves like that, but it behaves like that, and we have to get out of it. now the second topic, the topic of negotiations. for two months, everyone has been talking about negotiations, even a peace summit was invented for negotiations, by the way, the entire western press, if you haven't read, you know how they wrote about the zelensky peace summit, that at the peace summit ukraine finally agreed to negotiations with russia. i have not heard anything like that, and from v in ukraine, we were told by the authorities about something completely different, but it turns out that in the west, the leading publications are telling us. days wrote that it turns out that ukraine agreed, we open the official page of the ukrainian government, is zelensky really

talking about inviting russia? and how do you imagine that the situation on the battlefield creates any prerequisites for the start of negotiations, for some kind of truce? i don't see it, then why are they talking about it in the west about the negotiations, i understand, because this is the strategy of the united states of america, the dates are dosed ukraine has enough weapons to sit down for negotiations in a winning position. with russia, and this simply shows that they do not understand the nature of this war, and no matter how much we tell them about it, i have the impression that they are deaf, but we tell them directly, you do not understand the existential nature. of this war, the russians will not sit down at the negotiating table with us, and they will not sit down with you, the russians want to destroy us, so the way out is not negotiations, there is a way out, victory over russia on the battlefield, but it does not reach them, now even if in to imagine that there is such a scenario as the freezing of the conflict, it exists, yes, if they start to close the faucet with the supply

of weapons to us, he is barely humming this faucet anyway, then of course, when we have nothing to shoot at, we we will be forced to keep quiet. hostilities, and now let's see, who will benefit from this freezing of the conflict, who, because i hear from the ukrainian side, the same thing, that we need to take a breather, accumulate forces and so on, so who will accumulate them more, us or russia, the question rhetorical, i think that russia will accumulate more and more of them faster, and in this case in the case of this scenario of the so-called freezing of the war or the so-called, an even worse scenario, it is a truce, if we sign something, then we will be finished, it will be the same path that ukraine has followed for centuries. which has always led to its defeat, and in this case it seems to me that the key to changing these undesirable scenarios is solely to convince our western partners by any means to change their strategy, if this does not happen, there will be a freeze , if we sign anything, we're done, we, we just

lose, so i'm just calling zelenskyi, at least don't sign anything from these truces, let there be a freeze on... we will have to comply, we will be forced to the fact than the signed truce, because the signed documents will implement it and sanctions will begin to be lifted from russia, on what conditions, tell me, please, russia will go to negotiations, well, in my opinion, putin has made it clearer, he has clearly said on what terms he is speaking, he is ready to cease fire, you give up four regions, you agree, and in an hour we will increase the fire, and that we will go for it, so why we are this pernicious, absolutely destructive and harmful... we are imposing tactics on ukrainian society, which turns out that negotiations can solve this war, it is impossible, there is a diplomatic solution to the russian-ukrainian war, it is impossible, it is possible only as a result of the victory of one of the parties, because if russia wins, then there is no ukraine, we we are ending as a state, as a nation, well, if ukraine wins, then russia will end as

an empire, something else will emerge in its place, the west, the third year of the war does not... wants to change its erroneous strategy, and therefore we are in such a phase in which we are this is a phase of exhaustion, this is a war, to exhaustion on both sides, this is our own exhaustion, from exhaustion immediately follows despair, apathy, indifference and such thoughts to ourselves, well , let's at least make up for a while, and then leave macron, let's take some time olympics , let's make a truce, well, let's do what will happen next, and which olympics will be from july 15 to august 10, so per... will we not shoot for how many 25 days and what will happen next? and i, in this case, it seems to me that the ukrainian authorities have embarked on a very slippery path, as i call it all the time the congregational path, bohdan khmelnytskyi followed this path and lost in 1649, because in the end he was forced to go under the russian protectorate, the path of negotiations is

a disastrous path, negotiations with russia are impossible. russia considers the negotiations exclusively as an ultimatum to ukraine and a prerequisite for any negotiations: neutral status, their inspection of our armed forces, four oblasts plus crimea are theirs, and then we will talk, and this is impossible, that is, everyone who , well, let's just bet on this checkerboard , here are the conditions, and when, here is what is on the second summit, but at the second summit we will take and invite russia or a representative of russia, what will we talk about there, about these conditions, ukraine will sit at the table. negotiations to talk about it, well , it is absurd, and it seems to me that it is, well, it is a slippery, wrong and harmful path, because it sows the opinion in part of ukrainian society that this can solve the war, that the war can stop, and this can to tear it apart from the inside, but this path cannot and cannot be followed in any case, if in fact

the freeze is so, but our strategy for the time being is overall plus-minus of our armed forces is correct. to wear them out in active defense, to accumulate forces, well, the truth is, the second point requires support of the west, well, yes, if this is how the planes go, how they go, well, then i don’t know how we will accumulate those forces, and it can really lead to the fact that on some front line there will just be a cessation of hostilities, but that's not the end of the war, that's a delayed war, and any talks, that's a delayed war, so that's not the way to go at all, that's my, that's my main fear, and this is my... main appeal to the ukrainian authorities not to go down this road, it is a road to defeat and it is a road to nowhere. markians, can you react, have you heard what we are talking about here? so definitely heard, the only thing i can agree with is definitely that as of now to talk about any kind of freeze or delay is an extremely dangerous

thing, i think that a lot of the military right now, myself included, are doing all so that this war does not spill over into the future generation and that it does not take place there again after a conditional year, two or three after some negotiations, i do not know, frosts and so on, that is, it is clear that the armed forces. of ukraine, now the defense forces are doing everything possible to ensure that we get a victory over the russian federation. uh, there are many difficulties, there are many difficulties, i definitely agree with taras, that in general the concept of russia, it is not the seizure of, let's say, some territory there or there, from what it started with, that there is protection lpr, dpr and so on and so on, the concept of russian. war is the absolutely complete destruction of ukrainian statehood and us as a nation in general, that is, we must understand this and oppose it this is what we have to fight for, that is, we can

now remember how everything began with a full-scale invasion in the 22nd year, i would like to make the same remark to the previous speaker, in fact, these were not the first negotiations in istanbul, the first negotiations took place in minsk, and in istanbul already the negotiations took place after... after things went wrong, when all these convoys were stuck, when there was no takeover in the first three or five days, when they stalled, when they realized that the plans they were drawing were there literal lightning seizure and complete control over ukraine during the first two weeks, when all this did not happen, then there were already, let's say, again some efforts to the istanbul negotiations, that is, you do this, you do that, and again we return to what we said last time, when i said: we must learn to react exclusively to our interests, we must not react to what putin says there or who he threatens there, how he tries there, let's say issue some kind of

ultimatum, we can mention the help which has been coming to us since the middle of february, in fact we can now state that when everyone already understood that the war was not inevitable and that it was about to happen, everything that the western partners helped us with at the start, these were in fact types of weapons intended for... . well, roughly speaking, a deep guerrilla war, this is a limited number of manpads, a limited number of atgms, small arms and everything, that is, we could not even dream about tanks, about armored vehicles, about artillery, about airplanes and so on and so on. further, that is, no one believed in us, that is, we did, we first made everyone believe in us and we convinced, we convinced the world that we can stop it, that we can... well, defeat them, as of now it it drags on, people get tired and , again, everyone is counting money, our western partners know how to count money very well, they understand very clearly that they can get

, let's say, help ukraine every day, every month, every year. well, in any case , we don't have options there, let's say, there or to stop or sit down or think about some kind of freezing there, because in the end we can just disappear, we have to fight and we have to. to win, unfortunately, we have no other options. ugh. thank you markyan lopachak. and summing up the topic of the negotiations. and then we will move on to energy, and svyatoslav pavlyuk, there you will have more say, people's deputies, people's deputy from the servants of the people. we will also give the people's deputies and oleg sen a word about how we are preparing for this winter and what awaits us. but in the meantime, mr. podlisny said an interesting thesis stetskiv, that there is a feeling that the ukrainian authorities have stopped moving towards negotiations. although in reality, if you listen to the conditional rhetoric of president zelensky, you cannot see somewhere, but - what yermak says, what others say, about the appearance

of russian representatives at the second peace summit, whenever it happens and does not take place, eh, according to your feelings, we really got on the rails before the negotiations, well, i didn't get the impression that we got on those rails, uh, i'm talking about the ukrainian government now, i understand. society and the state, namely the ukrainian one that's right, i didn't see it, i know for sure that some of our partners are starting to, as it were, blackmail, but do we really not want any peace at all, we don't want to negotiate, and here i would like to agree with mr. stetskyi , what he said that many of our partners in the west do not understand the essence of this war, uh, i can ... to some extent understand them, their view is a little different than ours, because we have an existential question to survive this war, and the only way

to survive, as we understand it... correctly, is to victory, because if we lose, we will not survive, this is a very clear strategy of russia, what should be done with us, that is, we will not be there, this is clear, only in the west, that is what they definitely do not understand, because they look at china, taiwan, they're looking at israel-palestine, they're looking at other potential conflicts that are potentially a threat to the west, and some of them are not just potentially, they're an actual threat to the west, and they don't know if they're going to work out. i once spoke to a french officer and he asked me one question such a rhetorical question, he did not give a direct answer, but he asked: listen, if there was such an intensity of fighting as in ukraine, how many artillery depots do you think would be enough in france? i say, i have no idea, i'll tell you, by very little, so they're not ready for a lot of things, but they have

nuclear weapons? okay, and it's good that macron mentioned it. ugh. here, uh, another thing is, uh, this is from a meeting of a think tank called the european security architecture, which i belong to, was very simple phrase: we do not know what to do next, if after the defeat of russia, or very significant. the weakening of russia, china will receive in exchange, in fact, the fact that it now controls russia in many places, how does it get all these resources. we don't know this, and it's scary for them, because it's a primary mistake that they didn't understand, because the misunderstanding of our war is a consequence of the primary mistake. in 89-91, if you remember, first the article, then the book by francis fukuyama, the end of the story, the whole

confrontation with communism, the main thing. the enemy is over, we have a liberal democratic one the world, or at least the perspective for the whole world of this liberal democratic world, let's build businesses, let's trade, joint cooperation, and now the west nurtured its competitor china, it nurtured its competitor russia, and now it is not known what to do with them, that was the primary mistake, now they don't understand this... our war on many platforms, it's true, they think it's about territories, uh, that it's about some kind of expansion, in fact, it's about the destruction of ukraine, because there is a single russian people, for them , unfortunately, in three guises, for now, russia, ukraine, belarus, and everything should be a single russia, so we clearly understand what this means for us, they don't understand it, and here we are to deliver these messages, regardless of which political parties, which political forces, which

these are presidents whether it is a collective action or whether it is the global south, this is what we have to do now, because if we don't do it, and somewhere suddenly military aid stops or decreases, well, we saw what happened when from october to, when there may there was no american help, we we have lost a lot of territory, we have lost a lot of people, we can, because unfortunately we are not subjects here, we do not have enough of our own. weapons, someone can force us to go to negotiations, who will decide on these negotiations, well, we know who. i quote the head of diplomacy of the european union, borel: ukraine is running towards the european union at the speed of light, i have never seen the process happen as quickly as in ukraine, never. oksana yuranets, well, let's hope we finish with remarks and talk about energy, a meeting in stanford is on the program. economy,

jurisprudence and politics, where he said that ukrainians are waging an existential war, in which as long as they are fighting, they live and exist as a state, if they stop doing this, it will not happen, that is, this is what he is now traveling around the world and telling, and it seems to me that now everything has changed very clearly, we, if they don't give us weapons and while they didn't give us help, norway, japan got involved and blocked this period, and we don't even have ambassadors there as of now, we, we as a state we will also not finalize in some directions with partners, if we now we are lacking some weapons... we are starting to make kamikazes, our ukrainian team is now trying to order kamikazes from a ukrainian manufacturer, well, taras, do you remember how it started in 22, and now it is thousands, who can make 10, 20 thousand, only we need to find resources to buy it, if we do not create it ourselves, that is, it is a system when, thank god, we ukrainians start inventing something to help us stand, but we need to do it and convince the world, even we have changed our focus thought is short.