the leading ruling party of law and justice, the party represented by president duda himself, evaluates this visit quite favorably, actually they note the main thing that duda achieved the abolition of visas for polish citizens for 15 days, a short visit, eh, on the other hand, the opponents are just that and criticized, because they say that it is quite symbolic, plus it was more in the interest of china, which after the pandemic, after closing the borders. now it is somewhat even suffering from a lack of tourists, therefore, in principle , more than that, china itself could and will take advantage of the influx, perhaps polish tourists, ms. olya, but i have a question, please excuse me, but this is a clarifying question, the whole world is afraid, at least in the whole world there are people who are afraid of china, because after investments...

some political pressure comes, and i know even in ukraine there were such conversations that let 's let the chinese go, but other people in government circles said that, oh my god, because the wives and children of chinese specialists are brought to chinese specialists, then chinese restaurants arrive, then the employees of these restaurants, then waiters and then there is chinatown, which in general has its own... jurisdiction such, separately, such extraterritoriality, and what is being said about it in poland, because there, for example, a lot of people are suffering in africa and in asia precisely because of that , that first investments, and then political pressures, well , experts and the press do not say much about the investments themselves, something happened in our country, i see from a friendly connection. we can't yet, i think that now ms.

olga will be rehired, and i will entertain for the time being, that is, this is one of the most important issues, now some people are starting, they won't let me talk anymore, because olha popovych continues, yes, so what they are talking about investments and, we can't hear you, about investments, they are actually just about investments. not so much is being said, they are talking more about the fact that duda's visit to china itself took place according to china's scenario, that is, they are not so much afraid of china's specific investments in poland now, as they are afraid that duda, having gone to china, in principle did not convey poland's position, for example, they did not talk about the issue of ukraine, clearly position of poland, which it occupies, although duta said that he reported it, on the other hand, in official communications, he bypassed the topic of russia, bypassed it. on

the topic of ukraine, the only thing he said is that the war in ukraine harms mutual relations. and in fact, experts in poland critically evaluate this, because they say that china also wants to further its interests in europe with the same help, even though poland itself is a weak country in europe and does not decide. however, china is taking steps to slowly promote its... idea somewhere, that is, its own interests through poland, and critics of duda's visit say that duda should have spoken, in fact, before that, having well coordinated the position with european leaders, with germany, with france, and should have presented a common front in the conversation with china, even when they are talking about investments , even when they talk about the economy, because poland itself is too weak and too ineffective not to... be

used by china, or to compromise itself now by presenting itself as such a partner of china, after all, duda spoke a lot about the fact that first of all they talk about the economy, about the fact that china can also expand its market in europe with the help of poland, and precisely for this he was criticized at home, criticized by experts for the position that this is a position... which somewhere deviates from reality, that is there were talks about the economy and they forgot about geopolitics in general, about the situation that china occupies in the position of russia's war against ukraine, although we know that poland has a very clear position in this war, and also has a fairly clear position in china, and accordingly , bypassing this one subject, duda thus also showed his weakness, as he was ready to remain silent somewhere about... actually this

geopolitical element, this element of war, for the sake of certain preferences, and it was for this that he was criticized the most, another topic. polish-chinese relations, but about the fact that poland has warned about difficult negotiations regarding ukraine's accession to the eu, and i understand that agriculture is primarily meant, and maybe in the first, second and third place, that is why that it is enough developed in poland, large farmers, small farmers, medium-sized farmers, but agriculture is also developed in ukraine, and we talked about it with brussels today, and now we are talking with you about how much it is possible for ukrainians to get along with poles, because if i was a pole, i wouldn't want to let ukrainians into europe with their agricultural goods either, because they are getting better and better, they are obviously cheaper and competitive, for sure, and i, too

, if i were a ukrainian farmer, i would really like would defeat the polish farmers, is there an objective point of view somewhere? everything will again depend on brussels, and if kyiv were to agree with brussels and warsaw would agree with brussels, then it would be good for everyone, well, because brussels will pay more to warsaw for what it can, well if only to become more competitive with ukraine or what? well, in general, ukraine's entry into the eu will also have two sides for poland, as well as the critical one you mentioned, that is, this threatening one for the polish countryside... economy, competition, great competition from the side of ukraine, but from the other side, and this is often emphasized under this side by the current polish minister, in particular adam shlapka, this positive side for the polish investor, for the polish business that will be able to enter it will also be easier for him to enter the ukrainian market and accordingly

expand this market for himself. we can already see that poland exports more to ukraine than imports from ukraine. and accordingly, this argument can be. also one of those key factors that will somehow ease the pressure on poland in terms of the competition of agricultural products from ukraine, or rather the actual stopping of the supply of ukrainian agricultural products to the polish market and the european market in general, but this is not only a problem, not only the poles are paying attention to this problem, the germans and the french are also talking about the threat from ukraine actually due to so far cheaper and better quality, even partially... agricultural products, respectively, an example is also poland, an example of how poland joined the european union, how very strongly then germany was afraid of the entry of poland, but later they did find points of exit from this competition, the same will happen with ukraine,

of course, in ukraine, too, one must be prepared for the fact that there will be issues in which ukraine will be forced to retreat a little somewhere and give in to its ... in its own interest, any negotiations, any discussion points and any entry of a new country into a new structure for it, they also depend on compromises. accordingly, when there are two parties, it is also a matter of political will, because we have seen a lot with this one agricultural products from ukraine, we saw a lot of manipulation in the polish media space, and even in the end among experts, and naturally, it is important that there is political will. now in warsaw, we have a government that understands the threat posed by ukrainian products and clear competition, but on the other hand, politically, it is quite clearly determined to support ukraine in its steps towards the european union, and we must look for these compromises in order to further

strengthen this support, also talking about the benefits for poland with ukraine's entry into the european union, because they definitely exist, ms. olya, but... but, these negotiations on agriculture between the european union and poland, when poland was on this path to the european union, as far as i understand, the understanding came when brussels said we will polish farmers have a lot of money, and somehow everything settled down, polish farmers got money, they stopped sowing a lot of what the germans or french did not want them to plant, and somehow ukraine can take care of everything. because it is said to be at that time, it it was unprecedented, what warsaw offered in brussels, take the billions, just don't open your mouths wide and here you are, here you have money, and keep silent, and everything turned out fine, ukraine can

go down this road and ukrainian agriculture , agriculture, ukrainian farmers receive huge amounts of money from brussels, but brussels will say, don't sow this, don't... harvest, don't sell this at such a price, here's compensation, please, and here's this, here's you this, and that's it for you, well, i'm not i think that the identical path of ukraine, the ascent of the european union, can be repeated. and these subsidies also to brussels, which at one time were for ukrainian poland, first of all, the situation has changed now, other realities, and in the end, the old so-called states of the european union also pay a lot of attention to the subsidy of the new countries that join, and and actually will obviously restrain this policy of such a large subsidy for a new country, but it is clear that farmers, if ukraine enters the european union, can. be ready, or rather, can expect that they will receive subsidies

for their agriculture, for their production, for the purchase of equipment, first of all, and they should also be ready now for the fact that the norms for the requirements of agricultural products will change, they already, this is exactly what we are talking about what the polish farmers protested against, the so-called green system, will actually change... the way of production, which should be cleaner, more ecological for the environment, and now it is difficult in ukraine to fully imagine this, given the same situation in which we we are at war, but also the economic component of ukraine, however, yes, if ukrainian farmers receive subsidies, they will also be forced to comply with european legislation. this is europe, thanks to olga popovych, the editor of the ukrainian

almanac annual, this publication of the association of ukrainians in poland, explained to us what awaits us, i mean, ukrainians and ukrainian women on the way to the european union, there they await us not so much with sincere hugs polish farmers, well, that's the fate. now there will be advertising again, and then the commissioner in the cases of the european court of justice human rights. mr. ivan lishchyna, we will talk with him about very interesting, but legal points, but anyway, after the advertisement, that's it. fm: galicia. listen to yours. tingling,

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to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, look at saturday's political club every saturday at espresso. every week , maria gurska meets with the head of the committee on foreign affairs of the polish diet, pawel koval, the representative of the polish government for the restoration of ukraine. what happened this week in poland, ukraine, europe. what is being said about ukraine in the eu, how should we perceive the statements of european politicians and what will our accession to the eu look like in the project about politics about the world with maria gurska every sunday at 3:30 p.m. with a repeat at 10:00 p.m. in cooperation with sesttry eu. watch at 21. news, summaries of the week. introduction of ukraine to of the european union. negotiations have officially begun. our country expects to join the eu by 2030.

the hague awaits shoigu and gerasimov, just like putin. the international criminal court has issued arrest warrants for the ex-minister of defense of russia and the chief of general staff of the armed forces of the russian federation on charges of war crimes in ukraine. beach vacation, despite. wind alarms, the holiday season in odessa is in full swing, about all this and much more at 9 p.m. on espresso. so. good health once again, my name is mykola september, as i promised, ivan lishchyna, commissioner of the european court of human rights from 16 to 21 years, lawyer, lawyer, this is the most important thing, good health, mr. ivan, good, good day, look, i have you such a question, very similar, is not

clear to me, i hope you understand, look, the european court of human rights said that... that the occupation of crimea is an illegal act, the beginning of this occupation on february 27, 2014 , that is, if russian thugs someone was literally beheaded on the 26th february, then it is not their fault, well, if the occupation begins on the 27th, then there was no occupation before the 27th, and it is impossible to talk about the... russian troops on the 26th, 25th, 24th, 23rd . what does this phrase mean, that the occupation began on the 27th, until the 27th everything was fine? please sir no, until the 27th, there was no occupation, that is, the european court assumes that

the territory over which the sovereignty of the country extends, this country is responsible for the violation. of human rights in this territory, that is, if the thugs cut off their heads, then this it would be ukraine's responsibility to prosecute, if ukraine found such facts, then it would be necessary, it would be ukraine's responsibility, to find them, punish them and so on. since the 27th, so you understand, this is a very big victory, because in reality the russians did not recognize their responsibility for crimea, until the annexation. it, according to their rules, to their constitution, and they said, sorry, we are responsible, only starting on the 20th of some march, but they had problems, they changed their position several times, there was march 18, 16, but in any case they didn't recognize it, and why didn't they recognize it, because if we count from the 27th,

it turns out that there was no manifestation of the will of the crimean people, but there was simply an occupation, well , that. .. we proved that there was an occupation, that it was a military operation aimed directly at the secession of crimea, legality, illegality, the european court itself, it does not have such a function to recognize control over the territory as legal or illegal, it is not an international court of the un, but in fact with the tools he could to use, he actually said this, he said that the extension of the legislation of the russian federation to the territory of crimea, he does not recognize, it contradicts international law, and accordingly he said that what happened was not unification, er, how is it the return of brodnuyu gavan, everything else, this is it, it did not happen, it was a military occupation, and a military occupier, according to the norms of international law, does not have the right to extend his right to the occupied territory, and in fact, what the european

court of human rights said person in this case, it's straight... a huge win, to be honest, when we were preparing the material, we weren't sure we 'd get so much out of this solution. another decision: the court recognized that ukraine proved the existence of systematic violations of the rights of ukrainian citizens since the beginning of the russian federation's occupation of crimea in february 2014, and what does that mean? it seems that our connection has been interrupted, you are sorry for me, i apologize to the audience, because i am just like that, i decided to have the lawyer explain exactly these subtleties, because i am not a lawyer, i cannot explain them explain, lawyers in that

sensei is much more important than journalists and all the rest, because that's exactly what it is. what does it mean, please, mr. ivan, ukraine has proven the existence of systematic violations of the rights of our ukrainian citizens since the beginning of the occupation of crimea in february 2014, and what does this mean? this means that, look, in interstate cases, the state can either represent its citizens, as it were, like a quasi-lawyer, this happens very rarely. it is better not to do so, because, well, from the point of view of the procedure, it is very difficult, or it is necessary to prove the existence of systematic violations, that is... it does not say that we know the violations, she says that we have enough information that there were systematic violations, it is factually very difficult to prove it, but we were able to prove it, and this

means that the systematic nature of the environment means that the violating state has such a special practice of violations , and from the point of view, well, now we understand that russia is a terrorist state, when it was submitted it was still so obvious, and the fact that we proved that at that time, still a member of the council of europe, russia had special standards of violations, special rules regarding violations of human rights, so it was this it was again very, very cool, and from the point of view there factually, it means that we won by an absolutely record result, that is, we proved that russia has a special policy on the violation of human rights by... in particular there were about the torture of ukrainian prisoners of war about the torture of ukrainians like this, the connection

is interrupted, you can even explain why because the war is going on, when the war is going on, somehow everything is not working very well, we hope that the ukrainian army is working well, so sovereignty is with us again appeared, let's continue. my question, i have such a question, but in the practice of international courts, we already do not prove what has been proven, we already refer to it, for example, a new court of some kind appears, and in that new court ukraine is asked, what do you have there with violations of citizens' rights, he says: here is the decision of the european court of human rights, here it is, here they are. "this is proven, that is , we do not prove it, we already rely completely and do not need to prove something and explain something again, please,

sir, it is even more interesting there, there are many different international, as they say, lawyers of forums, courts, it can be arbitral tribunals, international courts, it can be the same court in relation to". it can also be the international criminal court, and you are absolutely right in saying that here we have already proven the fact of occupation , and the fact of the existence of systemic violations, and for example, if there are still others, now there are already other lawsuits against russia regarding violations, for example, of property rights, it is the european court that established that there were systematic violations, that is, you just need to file the actual to prove that you you had property in crimea and it will be much easier to prove in the european court and international arbitration itself, the same with torture, for example, there is another, for example,

the mechanism of the international committee of law , the international committee on human rights of the united nations, there they will also accept the decisions of the european court as a precedent that can be relied on, and the same international criminal court, it will be easier for him to establish. you are the fact of occupation, well, it has already been established, that is, this, well, this decision, it is so thorough, it is still read and read, there is a lot a lot of text, but almost all of this text, it is very much in favor of ukraine, and this, well , once again, honestly, when we were preparing this text, we thought that the decision would be less pro-ukrainian than we got it, the european court, for sure, decided , that he will not play diplomats and simply say: mr. ivan, i have a tricky question for you, look, here i am, mykola veresin, living for myself and living, i don't like living in

lviv, i don't like living in kyiv, because they disconnect light and so on and the like, and some lawyers tell me that this is it the accumulation of these decisions of various european courts opens a path for me that lasts 5 years. the war is already over and that's all, but i write to some court and say, you know, i suffered from this, i was morally destroyed, i feel bad, give me a million euros for the fact that i'm traveling kyiv-lviv, i have a computer doesn't work, i don't have light, i walk to the ninth or 15th floor, in short, i suffer, and this reveals it to everyone. ukrainians have a road to, so to speak, receiving money from russia for their suffering, as far as this is true information that this is possible? well, look

, potentially, of course, all ukrainians were affected by this aggression, all ukrainians, er, had a very unpleasant experience, and theoretically, all ukrainians are entitled to compensation, on the other hand, most likely compensation will be paid, if there are, well, i think which will be paid within the framework of appropriate mechanisms, standard, and most likely there will be, and most likely 100% to any compensation payment system, there will be a rather complex and detailed procedure for proving the existence of violations, i do not think that directly to all ukrainians, 100%, well , millions will be paid, in general, some sums, rather than that, it will be quite clear,

let's say so. for example, loss of property, loss of loved ones, loss of specific health, it will be necessary to prove it more and more soon , i'm sorry, please, but there are already approximately the amounts in question, it's just me, when i say, you say lost property, it is necessary to ask every resident of crimea whether he lost, how much he lost, how much was killed, in short, there is some kind of estimate, not, well, let's say this, of private losses, no, it was not the banks that lost, no, there are some big companies or enterprises there, but we can roughly tell ourselves that in crimea, people receive, there, there, 100,000 people lost their property, relatives, somehow suffered, and they receive a billion dollars somewhere, well, let's divide by 1,000 , not not that

much, but quite a lot. so maybe someone is thinking about it now? no, no, no no, unfortunately, well, there are existing mechanisms, well, look, yes, at the moment, a mechanism that would provide for some mass payments to ukrainians, well, it simply does not exist, there are the beginnings of this mechanism, the council of europe now creates a loss register, it's quite a very preliminary work, very very preliminary, it's good that it has started. but it is very preliminary, why preliminary, because the money has not been poured into it yet, and when the money appears there, most likely, the rules regarding payments will appear at the same time, because it will depend on how much money, how they get into this fund, how often do they get into this fund and so on, and when the money appears, then the rules of payments will appear, so

it is quite difficult to say at the moment eh... how much someone will receive, for example can to give an example, the un commission on compensations, which worked on the illegal occupation of kuwait by iraq in the year 90, then they paid 13 dollars on the cent, 13 cents on the dollar, sorry, 13 dollars, that's cents on the dollar, that is. i had $1,000 of it, i lost it, $130 will be reimbursed to me, they reimbursed me then, now i was correct, but most likely i’m lying yes more or less, probably yes, thank you very much, thank you very much, ivan lyshchyna, commissioner for cases of the european court of human rights from from the 16th to the 21st year, this is when i say goodbye to you, but i give i swear that we will definitely...

meet you tomorrow, all the best, congratulations, friends, the saturday political club program is on the air, andriy smolii and vitaly portnikov, today we will have a slightly different format, two hours in the studio today. so we discuss, debate, talk about all the topics that concern you, that are important for the country, these are essentially military affairs and european union affairs, there will also be debates between biden and trump, ideological affairs, in short, everything will be, so tune in now that we will be with you for two hours, so...