here. today in the verdict program with serhii rudenko. scarecrow of the third world war. us presidential candidates joe biden and donald trump argued over ukraine at the debate. should the democrats urgently look for a new candidate for election? the commonality of european politics. ursula funderlajen will remain the president of the renewed european commission. how will the negotiations on ukraine's accession to the eu continue and what risks will hungary's presidency of the european council have. 90 signatory countries. ukraine continues to attract new participants to the final communique global peace summit. what... will

moscow's initial positions be, if it is involved in further negotiations. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii ordenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. let's talk about the debate between biden and trump, about european integration. the processes that have started in europe regarding ukraine's accession to the european union, and of course, about putin's plans to involve north korea in the russian-ukrainian war. in the first part of our program, we will have the extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine valery chaly. in the second part of our program, which will start at 21:15, we will have a journalism club with the participation of my colleagues bohdan butkevich. and olga len. however,

before starting our big conversation, i suggest watching a video of the consequences of the russian missile attack on the dnipro. tonight, an enemy rocket hit a residential building, four floors were destroyed. the ministry of internal affairs reports that the russians killed one person and five more were injured during an attack on a high-rise building, rescuers are breaking up, collecting rubble, unfortunately , people are trapped in apartments, emergency workers rescued one man from a car, the victim was covered with parts of a mutilated house in dnipro, let's watch the video.

death to the russian invaders. friends, throughout the entire broadcast, we work both live on the tv channel and on our platforms. for those who are currently watching us on youtube and facebook, please subscribe to our pages on these platforms, and participate in our survey, today we offer you to answer the following question: do you believe that trump is capable of ending the war in ukraine? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if your answer is beyond the boundaries of an unambiguous, unambiguous answer, then please write in the comments in the comments below this video. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone. or phone and

vote if you think and believe that trump is capable of ending the war in ukraine, 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will summarize this vote. and our guest today is valery chaly, diplomat, politician, extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america in 2015-19, chairman of the board of the ukrainian crisis media center, mr. valery, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, i congratulate you , glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, so on june 27 , the first round of pre-election debates between joe biden and donald trump took place, they took place in the cnn studio and lasted 90 minutes, this was a rare case, because both biden and trump do not yet have the official status of candidates for. of their parties, but this

debate has already taken place before, who do you think, mr. valery, looked more convincing at this debate, trump or biden? i 'll start with what you rightly said, this is not a rare case, this is the first, i think, case since that first nixon-kennedy telecast where it was candidate nixon who underestimated the importance of the televised image at the time and it really affected the outcome elections, after there were many cases when the debate did not affect the outcome of the election, i will remind you, even... romney, romney lost the myth, but he won the election, that is, in principle, by and large , the debate and the election result should not be equated, this is the first position, the second point is that this early debate,

the question here is why it was initiated by the democrats, frankly, i was trying to answer the ... that question to myself, and then when it was announced, it was a different situation, of course, and then i wanted to show just after of all these lawsuits, they probably wanted to bring candidate donald trump to these debates, maybe that was the intention, but in any case, i can say right away that the political technologists of the democrats, it's not just joseph biden, they really failed. because they already knew the situation before the day of the debate and still took this step, there are many questions, very many questions, because it was an optional debate, even when the boxing match, you know,

is scheduled there, the tickets are sold out, and it happens that it is canceled, moved on, after all, in 75 days, there are such mandatory debates in september on the eve... already of the elections, so it is mysterious to me why, knowing that, in many ways, the result is the result, and the result is unambiguous, everyone said it, i mean the impression , the impression of the debate is not in favor of josevan, everyone said it, all the american media, by the way, this is another question, why the american media emphasized the impression, and not the content, not those issues that are bothering precisely ... a democratic voter, so it seems to me that it was some kind of test, some kind of trial a stone that was decided to be made earlier in order to have time for some important further decisions in the campaign, well, you mean that it is possible

to replace biden, because the nomination will be the main one in august, and now the new york times, after watching these debates, writes about the fact that after the debate in the united states of america , the democrats talked about the possible replacement of biden by another candidate in the elections . parties exist to win, the man who was on the stage trump cannot win because of the fear of trump has stifled criticism of biden, now that fear will fuel calls for his removal as a candidate, the new york times quoted a senior biden staff member, but already during the other day there was information that representatives of biden's staff are saying that there is no, no intention to remove biden from the race at the moment in the staff, and here

the question is that if you change biden for someone else, then it means to demonstrate that the current president of the united states of america, well, is not quite fit and suitable. to the presidential race, that this is also basically a loser for the democrats or not? well, you mentioned only one of the points, i will return to the key question, whether they will consider different candidates, first of all , emotions now, everyone really made an impression, but i will tell you, i have seen these debates more than once, and what was expected? i'm very surprised that anyone expected anything else, that is... it was predicted and the way both candidates are behaving today, and they all read their preparations, by the way, not in such a complicated version, ukraine was spoken, thank god, it became one

of the issues of debate, the issue of supporting ukraine, well, whatever it is, donald trump has specifics , but nevertheless, it became one of the key, it is even in another... in the middle east, no one was even talking about china, about taiwan, everyone was talking about the war in europe, about the position of europe, the united states, the aggressiveness of ukraine support, in what way, stops. war, that is, it is very good that it is just in such, i consider it constructive enough style was discussed, so if you look at the content of the content, well relatively speaking, if you listened to the radio, debates, you would have a slightly different picture, yes there were moments, of course, but moments, mainly, if scrutinized the arguments to the named numbers and facts, they did not surprise them with anything. facts, that is, that's why i say, it's very surprising that these debates took place, but now, that's why it's not such a simple question, i

think that emotions will go away a little, everyone will see measurements, sociological measurements, all now they will rush, of course, to take measurements, unlike in ukraine, where it is difficult because of the war, in america, business is established, and there they still believe in the reliability of the data, well, a lot of it is very sociological. structures are conducting it, that is, we will have it literally through well, according to fresh traces, now there is no such impression as we, 80% of the voters, of joseph biden said that they did not completely change their point of view, i do not know that there are others, because numbers are not given in a different way, but let's see, in 2-3 days we will have a picture if these debates, their impressions of them, because i see a lot. emotions around this, if it affects the percentages, seriously, well, let's say this, five or so points, then

there may be some movements, and before that, if it does not affect, there will be nothing further, this is firstly , secondly, without joseph biden's decision, there are practically no further options, because he received tremendous voter support during the primaries, so without his refusal. participation in the elections will be of no use, of course, if it suddenly goes according to such a scenario, then there is an electoral system from the usa, it is very complicated, but it allows difficult decisions to be made at the convention in august on august 19, i would say, there are even four known candidates, two governors, california and michigan, and the first, of course, i think is kamala harris. and well , everyone there always takes into account, suddenly michelle

obama will change her point of view, but this is all very hypothetical, i think that of course the easiest option is to rehabilitate as much as possible at the debate in september, because i will remind you that the last election, when it was at the debate, then there were two rounds, because there was no third it was because of covid, then at these debates biden won twice... so, in principle, it is possible that it will be difficult for obvious reasons, or maybe it will simply be forgotten, and some meaningful things will still come to the fore , because there is a lot of attention, unfortunately, i can state, to such a stereotypical, superficial, well, such an in-depth question, no one asked how the presidential candidate will continue to change his policy, how he will change his approaches, that is, there were already two completely

formed, well, not just formed ones, two presidents, both were already in office the president, and everything was very personal, 46% of personal criticism from trump and 38% from biden, that is, in fact , there was no conversation about such deep problems, and i will also remind you of one thing that is very important, yes, discussions these will be, we will see, i say, they depend on the sociological measure, but the main constituencies, for example, the republicans, who were currently choosing the nomination from their party, all those who voted against aid to ukraine, they, well, not all of them, many of them did not pass, but those who voted for help ukraine, remember, it was said then that it would harm them in the districts, nothing like that, everyone. 100% won, took their nominations, do you think it will affect attitudes, of course

it will, even donald trump, if the senate is in the hands of the republicans, then it is one thing, but if the senates are not in the hands of the republicans, it is quite another, then the candidate trump, if he suddenly becomes the president there, then he will not be able to appoint his own people, because the senate will be in the hands of the democrats, that is, a lot of things are decided in the districts, composition. senate there will play, and the house of representatives, we know who approves the budget, so we concentrate a lot of things, we focus only on... on one issue, everyone understands november 5, everyone praises trump or biden, and you know, the world is so dynamic now, and black swans are flying that even, i will tell you, even this is not yet a final fact, by the way, in conclusion, why did everyone suddenly decide that

it was, i note, it was a debate between two citizens of ukraine. well, yes, this is a very important clarification, because they really are not official candidates yet in the presidency, there is one former president, there is the current president of the united states of america, well, trump... during the debate , what biden said about ukraine, what trump said about biden, he accused him of not being able to end the war in ukraine , assured that he would not allow putin's invasion. let's hear what trump said. this should never have happened, i would have settled this

war between putin and zelensky as the president-elect even before his inauguration. january 20: i will settle this war, people are being killed needlessly, so senselessly, and i will settle it, i i will solve it quickly, even before i take office. mr. valery, it is not the first time that he is talking about the fact that he will come to office and in almost a day there will end russia's war against ukraine. so, as far as what he is saying now, it is not yet in a clear state, that is , he is not yet a presidential candidate, but he is saying that he is ready to win. and end this war, how realistic does that seem under the current conditions and under the current circumstances? first, i think he understands what he means, that he will stop war, to put it briefly, it is ukraine's agreement to most of the russian conditions

of surrender, with this option, that is, it is obvious that it... drink immediately and after some time with territorial concessions of ukraine with everything, that is, what influence did he have on this , that is, in addition to talking with putin, he will really talk, it is obvious, and with the president of ukraine, he will say that he has two key levers, well, right away, this is the provision of weapons, because the vote of the 61 billion package in the congress does not mean anything. that these funds, firstly, have all already been distributed, and secondly, that they are already, well, that ukraine receives weapons with these funds, that is, nothing like that, well , it is very important here that the current administration does not delay, because i see a large amount of funds that should go to the enterprises of the united states, they also, well, as far as i

understand, not even everyone went there, this is the first, this is the second - this is his opportunity... let's say this, to influence the funds that are for the inauguration, half of the funds for makrafin, which according to this law joseph biden cannot, you, well to give ukraine until january 20, that is, he has leverage on ukraine, what leverage are they impact on russia? well, if these levers, they were, of course, and he talked about them, this is at the time,... the readiness to terminate the treaty on the reduction of strategic offensive weapons and to develop the nuclear program of the united states, the program for the production of missiles of strategic minatmen 3, that is, he proactively was ready to tear it all apart, as you know, now it turned out differently, russia in fact has not yet reached it, it

does it all so cunningly, as if it threatens everyone, but understands that if the usa comes out of all this finally, everything, then russia ... will be soviet union, so trump wanted to do it, the second lever of influence, of course, well, i don't think it can be done quickly, as he says, providing maximum weapons to ukraine, right there in a few days or in a month, although he is not on that capable, if he sees that putin will completely focus on this time, but i am somewhat alarmed by the phrase before the inauguration. i do not understand what it means before the inauguration, because in principle he will be the president-elect, if he suddenly wins, then this transition period... he cannot influence, especially in during this period it is generally recommended to avoid any steps, because the current president is finishing his term, so this phrase before the inauguration can

only indicate some decision, well, let's say on the budget, and you know, the year will end in a difficult way, because during the debate, donald trump did not answer it is clear that he will not question the election results, he said that yes, i am there for the third time. i won't do it, if everything is honest, well, he understands that, honestly - it's his victory, that's for sure, because what will happen with the blackout, that will be with the budget, will it be transferred, how will ukraine be involved in these decisions, that is , there are a lot of issues at the end of the year, somewhere after november 5 this period, and during it do not forget what is in the current congress, the house of representatives, the republicans , so... this is another question, what he means, without having any presidential powers, how he will influence the establishment of peace quickly, this

is alarming, because it seems that he is somewhat following e-timing or putin's plans , that 's exactly what putin has plans for, right now to put in as much effort as possible, to throw as much meat into the month as they kill and... wounds, well, 200, that is, as many as they kill, to send as much, there is no more opportunity for now, and now they are straining as much as possible until this day, then the russians of course , they expect to push, plus the complexity of the situation in ukraine, energy stability is undermined, well, they are still trying to hit further, but it seems to me that it is all the same, for some reason everyone made november 5 a kind of... critical date, i don't think so, i think , that all this will be carried over to the next year, on well, of course, and then some decisions will begin to be accepted even without ukraine, if

anyone thinks that this will happen, even donald trump, it will not happen, but we have to think, if such statements are made, well, this is a serious person, i mean vlyvova , that is, one must then think about how to have one's own weapons so as not to depend on prohibitions, as we have seen, the prohibition. abroad, and joseph biden there himself personally decided how far we can respond on the territory of russia, for example, another will come there, he will say, and i forbid, and what will we do then, and the missiles to patriot, now we have received three more installations, thank you very much, germany, the netherlands, romania, well, it is clear that this is the decision of the united states, then missiles, additional to them, including esp. with denmark, well, these countries, and what will happen next, this is all consumables, that is, we need our own weapons, if we could not convince the americans to make patriot missiles

here, well, then we need to understand what we will do in such a scenario, that is, such a scenario in which it does not matter who will be, it does not matter, we just have to understand what is great risk of change. uh, the intensity, the focus of attention for this period, why did i say well, that the ukraine campaign is the focus of attention, because otherwise, foreign policy in general is the 30th position they have in the discussion, you see that in the first place the americans it worries us, as always, in principle, prices, inflation, well, it's just that we have a war, and that's why it became number one, but the issue of veterans is discussed there, that is, all these issues, in principle, affect the campaign, god forbid that it be in the focus of attention. our next question, for the situation to be like this, as today five floors were demolished in the dnipro, for it to appear there, apart from the company in the columns and

newspapers and on television, it depends on us, but it also depends on the scattering or focusing of the attention of the americans, so i think that you need to prepare, well let's put it this way, i don't want to say for the worst, you need to prepare for difficult scenarios, and to prepare means having... your own weapons, which can now be stockpiled, missile weapons, such as the ukrainian shield and sword, and in the case of such political upheavals that can affect the situation with at the front, to have their own backup option, then it is obvious that it is obvious to me that even donald trump will not stop the war there for a day, it is clear, but it is clear that this is such an allegory, that is, that he can just do it, in his own way , how he does it, well, i'll tell you, it's not such an unequivocal result, i 'll just remind you, it's a fact that

we got during his stay as president. the first lethal weapons, we actually knocked down this wall, which was from barack obama, the provision of lethal weapons, simply with him , that is, it is not so easy, and not before him, but joseph biden, of course , right now he was very skeptical about the provision of weapons there, although he supported the provision of weapons to us more than barack obama, but then you see that under certain circumstances he changed, so i generally believe that... not to us we need to look not at who will become president, we need to see how attentive america will be to the affairs of europe, how much it will maintain this interest, against the background of the fact that they are saying that in the coming weeks hezbollah may attack israel from lebanon, that is, and secondly, not only who will be the president, but i am for it who will be the senate and house of representatives. biden

has strongly condemned trump's position on limiting funding there or the participation of the united states of america in the north atlantic alliance, and biden said at the debate that putin can attack anywhere if nato allies do not increase their defense budgets. let's hear what biden said. he wants to restore the soviet empire, not just peace. he. wants all of ukraine, and you think that he will stop there, if he takes ukraine, what do you think will happen to poland, what will happen to belarus, what do you think will happen to nato countries? therefore, if you want war, you must find out what he is going to do? well, mr. valery, it seems that biden, let's say this, named belarus, and not some other eastern european country, because belarus, and what about

belarus, belarus is already part of russia. well , in this situation, no one will argue, but this discussion about the fact that putin must be stopped is a very important discussion in this debate, and the most important thing is that in this debate trump and biden, and both candidates talked about the fact that the victory of the opponent will lead to the third world war, and these are also interesting dialogues, i suggest you listen now about the third world war. "we're very, very close to world war iii and he's going to get us there, and the president of china everybody, and kim jong-un of north korea, all of them, putin, they don't respect him, they don't fear him, they don't want to do business with with this gentleman and he is going to drive us into a third world if you want a third world let him win and let putin will say: "do what you want, nato."

in this history, in these debates, well, there was no debate itself, but what to do with the current situation with russia, and i did not hear the answers to these questions, maybe it will be at the moment when there will be an official debate , maybe i didn't hear that and didn't perceive what biden and trump said, that is, they have different positions on what should be done with russia. well, unfortunately, we will not hear this at the debate, because you see, i said that this debate is completely different from the one between by those candidates who applied for the presidency there for the first time, it is completely different, there is a lot of personal, and , to be honest, a lot of lies, there are various inaccurate data, to put it mildly, so that the accusations are mutual, there are a lot of such statements, here's how to get closer to the third.

not much was said about this position, just like that, it is possible to talk about, by the way, the united states, yes, yes , there were some general phrases that it should be stopped, but none about the mechanisms, well, we don’t know yet, they are known to joseph biden, so that he is now the sitting president, and so we may like and dislike there. you have a pace and a strategy of de-escalation or escalation management, but nevertheless, she is now holding aid to ukraine and a partnership with the country's large coalition, so it is a difficult, exhausting path, but at least it is clear, and donald trump, frankly speaking, well, it is not known which team, and we know how he makes decisions.