glory to ukraine, dear tv viewers, on espresso tv channel, west studio program. we will analyze the most important events of this week and, of course, we will try to predict what the following weeks will bring us. today's guests of the zahid studio are the legendary american general wesley clark and the iconic political scientist, who is in washington, andriy pionkovskyi. the espresso tv channel will be on the air now. legendary american general wesley clark, ex-commander of the contingent of the euro-atlantic alliance on the european continent. congratulations you, dear mr. general clark, and thank you for the opportunity and the honor of speaking with you. the key story is the scenario of the subsequent war. we in ukraine experienced extremely unpleasant, not just disturbing, literally unpleasant feelings when several months were given for putin, when we are talking about the delivery of american... large-scale

aid, for six months we in ukraine felt that everything could end badly for us, but now there is a feeling that the war is acquiring new, additional dimensions, i would ask you to describe them now. it is very good that ukraine is finally getting weapons from the west, and i am very happy about the support from the united states. despite the six-month delay and misunderstanding in the congress. however. it is important that ukraine defines its concept of victory and uses this concept to guide its demands. it is not necessary to do this publicly, but there should be a clear plan for what this weapon is needed for. without a plan, people will say: well, the front has stabilized, there is nothing left but to defend and despair, but this cannot be allowed. in 1940. these

british troops were pushed out of the european continent, and it took them four years to cross the english channel with american help, enter france, and liberate it. important geostrategic initiatives do not happen in a couple of months. it is not simply a matter of two more batteries or battalions of artillery, or hundreds of thousands of 155 mm shells, although all are necessary for defense. you need a concept of victory without which... your supporters in the west will find it difficult to formulate demands for forces, supplies and reinforcements, so the bottom line is, to develop a concept of victory. dear mr. general, we understand that the concept of our victory, the formula of our victory and the scenario of further war depends on resources, and resources depend on a specific political will, in particular, president joseph biden. and we understand that some things in the white house were put on hold only. and

because putin threatened, perhaps, the use of tactical nuclear weapons, perhaps putin threatened something else, but we see that putin is inadequate, that is, the very beginning of the war demonstrated putin's inadequacy and all the atrocities that accompanied this war, when we talk, in particular, about the shelling of our peaceful cities, well, accordingly, do you have a feeling when we talk about, for example, tactical aviation, yes f16s, which are supposed to arrive this summer, that there will be ... in sufficient numbers, and how the united states will behave if putin really dares to use tactical nuclear weapons, because this is all very, very serious. you asked two questions: first, about the f-16. it is related to the following question: how many f-16s can be considered a sufficient number? do you need 15, 50 or 500 of these fighters? it depends on. your concept of victory, what

's missing, at least in the public dialogue, although i don't know what's being said behind the scenes, is the concept of victory, what it is, that concept forms the basis for deciding the adequacy or inadequacy of the military supply that you receive. as for the united states, you have very strong popular support, which reflects your determination to fight for your independence. and democracy, and the willingness of americans to support those who fight for freedom. this strong sympathy spans both political parties. if putin decides to use nuclear weapons, the united states will have to respond appropriately. although i don't know what that answer will be. i hope the us has an adequate military response package as well. this war will end when putin... realizes that he cannot

win and cannot hold the parts of ukraine that he claims are part of russia. this is how this war should end. we often hear that in... it should end with a diplomatic settlement, because all wars usually end with some kind of written agreement, but the question is what will form the basis of this agreement, the basis for it should be the results of the ukrainian concept of ousting the russians, the demands that this concept generates and determination their implementation in the process of implementing the plan, as soon as it starts to happen, i think that putin will be able to be overcome. and i am sure that he will definitely not go for the nuclear scenario. i ask you about this for a reason, because at one time you restrained not only serbian aggression on in the balkans, you also restrained russian aggression in the balkans, you were among those people who were not afraid to bring the situation to the level of either,

or, yes, we remember this case very well in ukraine, yes, and you managed to stop the crimes of the serbian fascists, who stayed under milosevic's gun, but on the other hand, there were no nuclear weapons involved, if we talk about the seriousness of putin's intentions, how far do you think things can go and do you feel the readiness of the euro-atlantic community to fulfill its responsibilities, if, for example, putin will start one or another form of aggression against one or another state, a member of nato, whether it will be estonia, or it will be lithuania, or it will be poland. conflicts can be ended in two ways: one of them is to achieve a dominant escalation. when your adversary recognizes the hopelessness of his position and surrenders, that's how we fought the serbs in 1999. milosevic was

a rational man, but he was also somewhat exhausted by five years of war. his resources also went down to zero after he faced the odds. milosevic agreed mistakes in trying to end kosovo. he hoped that nato's position would be influenced by the fact that kosovo was part of serbia. however, having assumed concrete obligations, the alliance could no longer retreat. milosevic misinterpreted the political calculation at the highest level in nato. we then started with airstrikes, which could turn into a dry invasion. marching troops to kosovo and possibly to serbia. as soon as milosevic realized this, he compromised and withdrew his troops. the nuclear situation in ukraine differs component, however, this trump card is in the hands of not only russia, because the usa, france and great britain

also have nuclear weapons. while brandishing the nuclear card, putin must recognize the nuclear potential of the other side, if he declares that... to go all the way, then he must remember what happened to adolf hitler. let's not be satisfied with putin's fantastic idea that he is ready to go to vabank, sacrificing his mother russia. putin, like every leader who leads a war, wants to win and is ready to sacrifice his forces, but only to a certain extent. even hitler in 1945 was looking for a way out, hoping. save germany he was not ready to fight to the end until that end became a reality for him. so putin must understand that there is no reason to continue this war. they weren't there from the beginning. ukraine

has never been a military threat to russia. the people of ukraine simply wanted to be able to choose their own path. if... putin had a clear head and understood the schedule of the 21st century, ukraine and russia would already be partners today. instead, he chose a false path based on false history and the allure of russian imperialism. which has no place in the 21st century. nato leaders understand this well, and that is why they are meeting this year on the 75th anniversary of the alliance. democratic countries were never in a hurry to intervene, even in kosovo, the conflict lasted for years. before nato began to act, in the case of ukraine, a full-scale war had been going on for more than two years, and the west continued to watch the action. but this is no reason

for putin to believe that the west is tired. the heroism of the ukrainian people, their incredible technological competence. guiding the way to success lies primarily on the shoulders of ukraine. this means that ukraine needs a concept of victory, it is about both a military concept and a political concept. which would determine certain requirements. this concept must be approved and supported by western partners, in order to ensure the fulfillment of these requirements. dear mr. general clark, we understand that this war is not an easy one. war, putin describes it as an existential war, and just a couple of weeks ago, when putin

had the opportunity to remain silent, no, he issued a public ultimatum when he said that there could be no talks about anything and began to demand the withdrawal of our ukrainian troops from our ukrainian territories, this is putin's position, and we understand , that they are heating up this notion of an existential war, and we understand that putin is ready to pay his price. well, at the same time, on the other hand, we understand that the russian army has shown nothing, except for the readiness to sacrifice its soldiers, that is, nothing they did not offer anything new on the battlefield, and when we talk about the peace formula, i completely agree with you, a clear position of the west must be confirmed with resources, and if we talk about military goals, what do you think putin would like to achieve, because for good reason he met with north... korean dictator kim jong-un. so putin begins hysterically looking for countries where he

can add gasoline to the fire. by addressing north korea, china and iran, putin is making a huge mistake. this coalition is only more so will repel the west, but also internationalize ukraine's struggle to repel russian aggression, stimulating western countries. to provide even more aid to ukraine is a big mistake on his part. ukraine must do what it must. when british troops were pushed out of france in 1940, prime minister churchill made an incredible statement. he said: we will fight them on the beaches, we will fight them on the farms. we will never, never, never... give up, that was the british determination. at that time, churchill did not

have an american ally, since america was not yet at war. these were scary times for britain. the country was being bombed, and its fighters were not enough to prevent airstrikes. many historical parallels can be drawn. this is a historic moment for the truth of the ukrainian state. this is a test. weapons, and this struggle can make ukraine a powerful and leading state on the world stage. dear mr. general, we understand that the current situation can change rapidly in the fall. there will be elections in the united states, and we don't know what to expect in ukraine, to be honest donald trump, right? we also don't know what to expect from his team, but in any case, he gives very different signals, and these signals sometimes scare me because they are too much. primitive, that is, if you believe the former advisers of trump, yes, who spoke

today about how trump would conduct certain negotiations with kiev and with moscow, this is disturbing, in fact, we understand that putin is also in the kremlin, putin's analysts are counting on certain events this fall, and we in ukraine are extremely worried about this. before moving on to the political situation in the united states, i want... what to say to the ukrainian soldiers and their families. many of us in the west are watching what is happening in ukraine, and our hearts are with you. we greatly admire your courage and what you are doing. we understand what it's like to be in the dark, the cold, the dirt. we've been through it too, not in your circumstances and not in these realities, but we know how hard it is for you. our hearts beat in time with yours. we admire your dedication. patriotism and self-sacrifice. i also want to say that those of us in the west,

who closely follows the course of the war, admires the flexibility and speed of the reaction to the invasion in the kharkiv area, which was demonstrated by general syrskyi and the leadership of ukraine. russia hoped that it would be able to break through and capture kharkiv, but lightning reaction, powerful leadership, as well as self-sacrifice of soldiers prevented this from happening. to win a war , you need a good keri'. education at the highest level, as well as strong will and determination at all levels. in my opinion, flexibility is demonstrated in the response to the intrusion in kharkiv and sumy, indicates a good top quality. as for the us presidential election, we cannot predict what the outcome will be. the fight will be fierce, because everything depends on how many americans vote. it is important that the issue of foreign policy during the election campaign is not given much attention. the focus is usually on domestic issues such as gas prices, inflation, cost,

food and unemployment. that is, there are many conversations about everyday things, and not... about the complex matter of foreign policy. when trump is talking about what he is going to do in ukraine, i think he is expecting support from putin in this way. he wants more help from russia to win elections. however, my friends from the republican party strongly support ukraine and have no intention of abandoning their position if trump is elected president, so you shouldn't worry about his statements, you just need to... to whom he addresses when he delivers his speeches. in 2016, during a debate with hilary clinton or during one of his speeches, trump said: russia, if you can hear me, he knows that russia played an important role in him becoming president, and so he wants to get their support again. actually, the skill and character

of ukraine will determine the further development of events. if president zelenskyi and others say that they are not going to negotiate or give up their territory, then it will be so. there is no way trump will be able to force you to do this. that's why i wouldn't worry so much about our election. in return, as much as possible, focus on building up your strength, preparing for next winter, restoring power, and working on the concept of victory. so you understand, the concept. victory is not just a few soldiers standing at a board with a map, it requires sincere devotion to its people, but i believe that there is a way to win, and i believe that ukraine can do it. mr. general, clarks, finally, i would like to ask for your advice, maybe we could address it to one of the ukrainian generals, maybe

to the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, perhaps to colonel-general oleksandr syrskyi, what do you think should be done on... it would be worth paying attention to. oh, i can't answer that question, that is , i can't give that advice, especially in public. being the supreme commander that general syrsky is is an extremely important mission. you are bombarded with advice, information and pressure from everywhere. you can't even imagine what it's like to be in his place. it is up to him to make all important decisions and do everything right. only he will show whether he acts correctly time. often you need to wait for results not a day, not two or even a month. it was in the vicinity of kharkiv that we saw an immediate result, and in general, this is a long-term struggle, which, unfortunately, will not end in one, two or three months. it was the same with great britain. there were hopes that the war would end in a few weeks after dunkirk in

1940, or when the allies crossed the english channel in 1900, but it didn't happen because wars don't end quickly, that's why you have to tighten your belts, roll up your sleeves, accept that this existential struggle and move forward only to victory, and why do you think putin did not open the northern bridgehead when we are talking about the republic of belarus, yes, because it is an extremely serious threat, but there is a feeling that putin is afraid of it. putin is determined to leave a deep mark on history, which is why he can be relentless. however, the forces that will determine the result come from the heart. the heart of the ukrainian people beats more and more strongly, after centuries of struggle, after the disappointments of 1918, after the problems of the 20th century, the revolutions of the loss of crimea in

2014. all this is part of the evolutionary process of struggles. for its formation. success comes to those who persevere. this is the challenge ukraine is currently facing. unfortunately, i have to end our conversation to our viewers. i would like to remind you that the legendary american general wesley clark, the former commander of the american euro-atlantic contingent on the european continent, was currently working on espresso. there are discounts that represent unbreakable discounts on citramon tablets, a gift of 10% in travel pharmacies for you and saving suffering from? whose? i recommend izoto. isota interacts with the acid in the stomach, which leads to a reduction in the symptoms of pachia. izota your water if heartburn bothers you.

vasyl zima's big broadcast. my name is vasyl zima, this is a big broadcast on the espresso tv channel. two hours of airtime. two hours of your time. my colleagues and i will talk about the most important things. two hours to learn about the war, about military, frontline, component, serhiy zurets, and what the world lives by. yuri fizer is already with me, and it's time to talk about what is outside took place outside the borders of ukraine. yury, good evening, two hours to keep up with economic news. time to talk about money in wartime. next to me, and sports news. i invite yevhen pastukhov to the conversation. two hours in the company of your favorite presenters. cultural news. alena chechenina, our art viewer, is ready to tell, good evening. presenters who have become like relatives to many. already in front of me, ready to talk about the weather for this weekend, as well as the distinguished guests of the studio, mustafa dzhemilov, the leader of the crimean tatar people, from we are in touch, mr. mustafa, i congratulate you, good day, events of the day in two hours,

vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for intelligent and caring people, in the evening for espresso. andriy will now work on the air of the tv channel. pionkovsky, a prominent political scientist based in washington. glory to ukraine, andriy andriyovych, glad to see you. glory, good day, anton. well, a very important story is what the position of the united states will be when we talk about giving us long-term aid. a couple of minutes ago, i spoke with the former commander of the euro-atlantic contingent on the european continent, general wesley clark, and he assured that the position of the united states would continue, yes. aid will continue no matter what, but there is another factor called donald trump and his advisers, who have voiced rather strange, so to

speak, methodologies that trump may use in the near future, in particular to put pressure on moscow, but also the worst, as in kyiv. your word, andriy andriyovych. general clark is right, it is happening in the us a conceptual revolution which. carried out by the reagan wing of the republican party, its three prominent leaders: the chairmen of the foreign affairs and intelligence committees, michael mccaul, mike rogers, and mike turner. first, we overcame the trumpists in the law on aid to ukraine. moreover, they criticized the biden administration for insufficient support for ukraine. i agree with clark's conclusion that support for ukraine now does not depend on the presidential election at all. because of this revolution in both chambers

a bipartisan pro-ukrainian majority was formed in the congress, according to the results of the last votes, we see that in the senate it is 80 against 20 senators, 50 democrats and 30 republicans, and in the chamber it is 370 against 60, and this majority will not change. will not change, but there is still the supreme commander of the armed forces of the united states of america, and we also understand that in europe they are extremely worried, in particular about what may happen in the next few months, so we do not undertake to predict, because you know, the american elections are a thankless business , i.e their analysis and futurology on the matter, but, but, but, first, that supreme commander you are referring to has yet to arrive. to the oval office, secondly, the usa is a democratic state in which congress plays a decisive role in matters of war and peace. and thirdly, i believe

that the revolution that took place in the usa and europe, which was carried out by macron, had an influence. now the leaders of the united states and congress and the leaders of europe set themselves the task not only of avoiding the defeat of ukraine, as the biden administration did, but defeat russia. understand that this defeat must be inflicted in order to be absolutely sure of the outcome by january 21, 2025, when the new president enters the oval office, so that there is no longer any doubt, and that is what all the recent actions are working towards, we see how on our all red lines are being erased, the us has allowed attacks from the longest range, removed the limit on distance. all the american press says that the biden administration continues

to resist so far, but more and more... yes, biden, as before against sending american armed forces to ukraine, unlike macron and his allies. but it does not rule out that the companies that supplied weapons send their personnel to service these weapons. that is, it is the same, in fact, that europe is going to do, to provide not only missiles and planes, but also technical personnel. which maintains these missiles and aircraft. in one sentence, macron destroyed the multi-year, ten-year nuclear blackmail of putin, saying that french military personnel are already participating in the military conflict on the territory of ukraine. they already service our scalp missiles as well british service storm shadow. i am ready to refer even more technical specialists. and ready to provide french

planes to ukraine. all this shows that the west really has a serious intention to defeat russia and understands the threat that trump represents. putin also understood this. mind you, he's not threatening nuclear weapons right now. he realized that these were empty threats that had already caused outrage within his so- called z-patriotic community. we see confusion in debates on propaganda channels. we can already hear the complaints. the king is not real. the king did not live up to expectations. france has already declared war on us, is sending its troops, but we cannot launch a nuclear attack on france. but andrii andrievich, i would ask you immediately, without going far, so to speak, from our intellectual treasury, to explain why putin rolled out his ultimatum. that is, the ultimatum is irrational. he made it public on the eve of the summit.

peace in switzerland, putin could simply remain silent, but he says: no, ukraine must withdraw its troops from its sovereign territories, otherwise i will not talk about anything, i.e. putin, his head was not clear. great question, i don't agree, it shows that something has cleared up in his head. yes, this is an unprecedented proposal in the history of world wars and world history. give me the territories too. which i could not capture from you, then i am ready for a truce, no one will seriously consider it, no one will accept it. but look at this ultimatum from the other side, through the eyes of putin's patriotic cattle, which supports it, it is a retreat. putin started the war with an ultimatum to 30 countries nato. collect the money and get out of here. threatening destruction, he told them on the day war was declared, if they only dared.

to help the ukrainians, to prevent me from destroying ukraine, such catastrophes await you, which you did not know throughout your thousand-year history, that is, threatened with nuclear weapons, now it is clear that this is an empty threat, the west is not afraid of it, and putin is now busy with another issue, yes , he wanted to become the master of the universe, he was sure that kyiv would be in seven days and that the west would let go of a little slouch. but now he is busy with other he needs to stay in power in a defeated country, because even his ultimatum is brazen and ridiculous - it is an admission of the defeat of his war plans, which he announced on february 24, now his task is to stay in power, and how to do that, to make some kind of agreement, which will leave a large part of the territory of ukraine in his hands. therefore

, he... hopes to sell this decision to his people, his people and his supporters as an honorable draw, saying that this is how i failed to achieve our great goal, and he has already prepared the culprit, due to the fact that the army is made up of thieves and traitors, his whole fight against corruption is an attempt to blame the army for the failure of the capture of ukraine. everyone knows that timur ivanov was shoigu's wallet, shoigu himself was putin's wallet, and all these... that's why it's funny that he suddenly found out that there is corruption in the army. he is preparing two things, the first is to tear up this temporary draw agreement and sell it to the public. blame corrupt generals for the failure of the grand goal of capturing ukraine and europe? to andrii andriyovych, well, to sell in the west.