of the european union and the relations of states within this european union, and we need to include all this in our national legislation, to adopt it, this is the main premise of these negotiations, well, there are points, yes, these are general ones, well, the rule of law, respectively, democratic principles , human rights, and all jurisdiction, jurisprudence, security and so on, these are all such political moments. which i can, well, which also need to be discussed and we will also need to implement all this and adopt it in our legislation, but there is still a complex more complex, the compatibility of the so-called, technological, trade, for example, industry, agrarian policy is also sectoral here, and the sectoral approach is more economic, and these are separate chapters, they will be opened, negotiations will be concluded.

one chapter closes, we move on to another chapter, and so on 32 times, oh, how complicated it all is, yes, and so 32 times, so there is a lot of work, it will require expertise of a narrow, specialized, branch, i would say so, er, and it will require the presence or preparation of negotiating teams experts, there are of course politicians, a delegation for negotiations, formed, if the presidential decree was made public, the head or head of the delegation is the vice-prime minister for european euro-atlantic integration, and the delegation consists mainly of deputies of each ministry, yes, that is, it is no no the ministry of foreign affairs is conducting these negotiations, the whole government is engaged in this, and apparently for successful conduct we need to strengthen the government, this is also true there are very few steps, but the government will have to hire p believers, they will have to hire

experts, advisers, who will advise politicians, government officials, how to defend their, well , our national interests and positions during these negotiations, what can be negotiated, yes, we have to adopt the legislation in full , there is no council for this, we cannot say that no, we do not accept this law there, in our country without it they simply will not be accepted as members , but we can negotiate about some transitional periods of their operation. there rules, regulations, especially in the economy, in standardization, there are technical standards, by the way, to which we will need to switch, quality standards, well, in industrial products, these are technical standards that the industry produces, what standard should it meet there , in food - this is safety, food safety, so that the food products that we produce, they are safe first of all for... for

the consumer, well and so on and so on, and here every country that entered she bargained, bargained, so to speak, in in the course of negotiations for the interests of its national producer, for the fact that access to the market is, of course, common, but also competition with other producers, some industry can immediately switch to european standards and immediately function on the open european market, and some industry, the economy cannot do this, but i would like to be a little more calm about it now, we have many other problems, nationwide, war, security, there is the destruction of entire sectors of the economy, we will have to build a new economy, in fact, we already understand that we will have to build a new energy industry, because the old soviet one, at least the thermal one, has been practically destroyed, and the hydropower industry has also been very seriously affected, so we will have to build a new energy industry and a new economy, and we will have to look for our niches and our

specialization in european markets, and when we are already inside the european union, we will be able to sell our products not only on territory or within the european market, but also throughout the world, because it will be trusted in such a way that it is made in the european union, made in eu, this in itself is worth a lot for... really, that's why we will have to make concessions , for a lot of concessions, but for now i urge you not to worry especially about this, because we can find directions that are unexpected for us, where they will still bring us more, more benefit and more benefit than those concessions on which we can go in the course of negotiations, well, that's interesting, but it seems to me that these negotiations will be difficult, difficult, they will be difficult, because they are about pragmatic interests, it's not just... if there is sympathy for ukraine, emotional

, yes, european society, european nations, citizens, they sympathize with ukrainians, accept refugees, pay some social benefits there. they help if they can, they share clothes, food with everyone, this, this is done voluntarily, for free, it is an emotional impulse, so to speak, and when it comes to business interests, how much you have to earn, pay taxes there and spend on something, on your own countries, then there is fierce competition there, there is a pragmatic conversation, there is no sympathy there, if we are going to hunt, have pity on us, then we have already had pity, only in a different form, but here they... will not sympathize, here it is necessary to agree, to seek compromises, to reconcile interests, to agree, obviously, to those conditions that are acceptable, but not fatal for us, let's say so, in the hope and expectation that we will adapt to them, adapt and be able to

to use to your advantage after some not relatively short period of time, let's take this topic now to close the last question for you, often well... even after the start of a full-scale invasion, when we began to invite to the european union, they said , that's how they drew the figure of 2030, is it a drawn figure or is it a real figure, it's optimal, i'll say so, it's probably minimally possible, because there are technical limitations of the european union itself, it can't be faster, because admission to... members it provides allocation of funds for adaptation, for some transitional period, for preparation for membership, that is, that too, by the way , funds will be allocated to us in order for us to prepare for, to , and become compliant with their standards, it takes time, it takes money and for this we need

people, yes, three resources, three types of resources, and in this plan, the european union plans its future budget, this budget is called the financial plan and... this is just a budget, this is how the financial plan is drawn up for up to seven years , it allows long-term plan strategically some things and progressively develop well forward yes without without sharp jumps, but also without without sharp falls, and the main thing is that the progressive can be planned for a long time, and in this... financial plan, it ends in the 27th year, from 20- th to the 27th year, and there these funds are not laid down for the accession of ukraine, but in the year 27 they will be possible, they can be laid down already in the budget for the preparation of ukraine, and for three years, they give until 2030, approximately plus or minus there for a year or two,

well, i think that more plus than minus, funds will be allocated for training, that ukraine is technically ready to be a member of it. communities, well, the 30th year, well , it is quite so optimal, it is still planned and on, there are still political decisions to be made, in addition to technical training, there are to be decisions of the european council, the european parliament, all these bodies, which are now elected after the elections to the european parliament, they have been functioning for 5 years, that is, this is the 29th year again, the next convocation is the 30th, they will form their bodies and be, perhaps, ready to accept. political decisions about the accession of ukraine in this organization, in this association, and one more moment, which we have also felt recently, after all the decisions of the european council, the european parliament, the final decision will still be made through the ratification of the accession agreement of ukraine to

the european union, its ratification not only in the european parliament, in all the parliaments of the member countries, and here, as it were, hungarian, the hungarian issue or the problem of hungarian ratification. mountain parliament has now become for us such a sharp - a loud bell that we simply will not have it, for a very long time it's a pity, so i propose to stay in brussels, but now let's change a little, let's talk now about the war that the russians have been aggressively waging for more than two years, they are entering us in ukraine. so, speaking in brussels after a meeting with the president, still the president of the european council, charles michel, volodymyr. zelensky said, i will quote now: now we need to develop a detailed plan, detailed steps regarding all the crises brought to our country by putin's war. we have months to come up with this plan, we don't we have a lot of time, we have a lot of wounded, killed, both military and civilian, so

we don't want this war to last for years, so we have to prepare this plan and put it on the negotiating table at the second peace summit, if there are any negotiations in shadows, then... it doesn't happen, then it's not about us, we want to do it openly, it's very important for us, considering the fact that lately, mr. volodymyr, very often from russia, putin himself has repeatedly spoken about it : speaks, lavrov speaks, there are statements that no, no, we are open to these negotiations, it is ukraine that does not want them, taking into account this ambiguous statement of volodymyr zelenskyi, because it seems to me earlier that he did not talk about so and so, can we talk about that , that something is being said on the sidelines about the end of the war and something, something is not being agreed upon, well, you see, the current or modern, current one. the ukrainian government, it is critically dependent on public opinion, they are guided by public sentiments, and if in

society, in ukrainian, first of all, in society, well, some still have confidence in an immediate victory a little undermined, and everyone understands that the war is dragging on, there is fatigue and serious dissatisfaction, well , such a public demand is being formed after all, well, let's finally somehow end it with something, and a political one , well, i don’t know how to call them a class, but... a group, at least, a ruling group, without a negative connotation, now i’m saying, they, they also try to communicate with the government and give signals to society that they are also working on it, that they are also conducting summits peace, that they are ready for negotiations, there is no longer such a categorical position as there was last fall, for example, but there is a problem here, this is all public communications, these are public statements, politicians talk about, they are heard by voters, respectively are evaluated, perceived, this

is, well, an effort to protect, to preserve trust in oneself and to gain support, but of course, somewhere behind the screen, behind the scenes, consultations, negotiations, exchange of ideas, all this happens, and we can it is to be read from the events, if not taken to attention... some such general, general phrases, beautiful phrases, clearly said in public, but to read the facts, events, steps, well, at the swiss summit, president zelenskyi and his head, the head of his office, irmak, told us in plain text what will happen next the summit by the end of the year, they want to hold it and that it should record the end of the war, that's all that everyone would like to hear good news, but i'm actually critical of it here. evaluate, because i am critical from the point of view of realism of the set goal, i think that russia, the russians are not

interested in negotiations with ukraine in general as such, the war in ukraine with ukraine, they started not by not declaring war on us, even, but by declaring war on a collective event, the actual declaration of war was the ultimatum of december 15, 22- th year, which is in the russian ministry of foreign affairs. glory not to ukraine, to the united states and to the headquarters of nato, that you immediately go there to the borders of 197, this was a declaration of war in fact, and they themselves say that we are at war with the west, with america there with someone else, just on the territory of ukraine, and they do not see ukraine as a negotiating partner or an international subject in general, because they denied our sovereignty, they committed evil, if ukraine is a subject of international law, then russia is a criminal, so they want to talk about the united states. in fact, and putin will wait, wait, until such a situation develops in america, when it wants

to talk with putin and allows itself to such a situation can develop, and it can change after the presidential elections in of the united states, or a little later after the new inauguration, or even after some events, perhaps unexpected for us or for the americans, but which may be provoked and planned by the russian special services on the territory of the united states or on some other territory, and then they can comprehensively talk about... . many, many things, it's as the russians would like, there about the division of the world, yalta, the yalta treaty, the second edition, the zone of interests, all that other stuff, i'm not saying that the united states will agree to it, but the united states should get out of it understanding that exactly what kind of negotiations vladimir putin wants, wants, wants, not with ukraine, not with volodymyr zelenskyi, or not with andriy yarmak, they can maintain some semblance of this, what do we understand here. if the public is considered the whole world there, or the global south, even, not only

it, but including it, it is a wide public, the audience is so wide, then all the actors try to give the impression that they are for peace, that they are adequate, that they are against escalation, that they are constructive, that they are ready for according to negotiations, this the ukrainian side is showing it, and it is pretending that the russian side is also showing it, they say, we are ready for conflicts, but our conditions. that is, they are unacceptable, and they understand that there will be no such negotiations, but they are ready for negotiations, this is a demonstrative position, of course, so we have about 8 minutes left. i have two more questions for you, i really hope that we will discuss them, let's not leave brussels yet, let's talk about the new, not yet appointment, but the agreement of the acting prime minister of the netherlands mark ryut for the post of secretary general of nato. mr. volodymyr, i will tell you honestly, i read a lot about mark ryuta after he was accepted for this position, and from what i

read, what immediately caught my eye is that he is called a teflon mark, that is, he is not... . something does not stick, he tries to find a consensus in any situation, and he proved this during his work as prime minister, that is, when he created coalitions with groups that sometimes seemed impossible. to connect as yours this teflon-like opinion of mark rutte, it will play to our advantage, or after all, at some point he can say that let's still sit down at the negotiating table, well, let's do it here... it is necessary to immediately understand and record that the position of general the secretary of nato is not the leader of nato, yes, it is not the head of the organization, it is the secretary, his work and function is to coordinate the interests of all members of this alliance of the organization, and accordingly work with all governments, because as we know, the decision is made by consensus, and only when they are adopted,

then the secretary general of nato goes out with these decisions to the general public, makes a statement, and his job is to carry out... the policy that is developed and determined by the euro-atlantic council, that is, it is a gathering of governments, heads of governments, well, governments, or there are at the level of ministers of foreign affairs, at the level of ministers of defense, all of these are euro-atlantic councils, mark rutte is very interesting in this regard, i think that he will be very effective, very effective in this work, precisely in this function, he is maybe you said teflonovy does n't stop doing anything to him, well, because he doesn't do yaks in principle. something like that to be blamed for him, yes, well, now we already know that he is, for example, single, he has no children, that he is a robotaholic, yes, he is just himself, he rides a bicycle to work, because it is a habit, no because he doesn't have a car, he's just used to it, a person is so used to it, it's so convenient for him, and they don't go far, obviously, he can

afford it, well, holland is generally a cycling country, it's fashionable, popular, that is, it's a professional flight. and this, by the way, is a standard, an example of the fact that politics is a profession, not everyone can cope with it, it is necessary to be able to have skills, possess skills and accordingly, well, use this experience for the benefit of the whole nation, the whole country, and not only there your family or his neighbors, his friends, as is very often the case in other countries, that's why mark ryuute can be such an exemplary secretary, but he is impeccable, whatever he calls himself. well, but once again, the question here is that he copes with this task of coordination and reconciliation of interests all members of this organization. the last stage of the negotiation of his candidacy, which he managed to pass, is to convince the prime minister of hungary, viktor orbán , to support his candidacy. well, gosh,

not many people would have managed to do it, but mark ryuta managed to do it. of course, a lot of merit. a huge one belongs to the current secretary, to the current secretary stoltenberg, who also worked with viktor orbán before visiting budapest there and so on, well, it seems to me that mark rlüte can be no worse, no worse, as far as i remember, it was he who promised viktor orbán that hungary would not participate in any military aid to ukraine, and thus he would sway mark viktor orbán to his side. yes, it was, and here i am. i would like to say that it is interesting, because the discussion was about which country the general secretary should be from, until now they were all from western europe, this time the current president of romania, klaus iohannis, applied for this position . things, it seems to me that he would also be a very, very good secretary general of nato, because the current one, for example, mircea juanne is now

stoltenberg's deputy, he is a romanian politician, former foreign minister. of affairs, he is the deputy secretary general now, in principle the romanians could also be quite effective in this role, or so claimed the prime minister of estonia, kalas, who is now, well, being nominated for the post of high representative for the security and foreign policy of the european union, i think that she will also have a great chance to be elected, but what did i lead to, that eastern europrop... wanted to have its own representative, because the threat to nato comes precisely from the eastern flank, and here in the east of europe, we feel it better, we understand it, and we can, so to speak, be an expert. well , it’s better to do it better, but no, the key, key role, apparently informal, of these reconciliations of the interests of the secretary general,

is how to reconcile the interests of the united states with european states and countries, and when any contradictions arise between europe and america, mediators are invited, as rule the dutch, most interestingly, this is a trading nation, they know how to conduct negotiations, they are open to the united states, because they are... a state there and well , the mentality is the same for them and at the same time they are europeans, unlike the british, they are not on an island on the continent and therefore very, very often the dutch are general secretaries here i am ab defer not so long ago i was also a dutchman and in this role the danes perform well as we have seen now and the norwegians as well as the norwegian secretary general stoltenberg was elected for two terms and continues to do so. could it from let me go, mr. volodymyr, thank you for this opinion, i really hope that mark rutte will still be in the position, as you said, in the position of the secretary general of nato, very

helpful for ukraine, we literally have 2-3 minutes left, i still want to talk to you, on the evening of thursday american time, in ukraine, it was friday, four in the morning in the united states of america, there was a debate between the current president joe biden and the 45th... donald trump, your impressions, so that cnn did not immediately after that only cnn wrote that biden won, your opinion, not biden, but trump, trump, i'm sorry, yes, i read this opinion, i personally did not see the whole debate fragment, fragment, well, just to emotionally read the information, well unfortunately, it seemed to me a demonstration of weakness, and not only a demonstration of the weakness of the current president, in terms of psycho-physiological strength. reasons or, well, age restrictions, first of all, there are voice, posture, body language, and so on, if we do not take into account the semantic argument, but

just look at the picture, well, trump dominated, was more confident, more impudent, allowed himself, well, they both allowed themselves a lot, by the way, this is probably the first debate when the participants switched to personal insults. characterizing each other, and all this very unfortunately showed us the weakness, the general weakness of the current american democracy, the fact that they held a debate even before the election campaign began, well it already looked like a test, let's test these two candidates, how they cope, and it seems to me that the democratic party does not satisfied with how it looked, whether they will be. they will, they are already talking about it, they are already thinking about it, but they have thought about it before, now if they would show the voters clearly this problem that exists, but they will not

be able to change it without his own personal decision, if joseph biden he himself will decide, so to speak, to remove himself and pass the baton on to someone else or leave the issue to be decided by the party congress, then this decision is possible. if he doesn't solve it himself, then, well, replace him, well, hypothetically, you can congress, but it will be a scandal and it will worsen the situation for the democratic party, so they will not go for it either, well, it seems to me that the inertial scenario was the most likely, and they will meet again on november 5 in the ballot papers, mr. volodymyr, closing this topic of debate, the answer is two or three words: joe biden 2:0 for ukraine is this and donald trump for ukraine is this. in case of victory in the elections? well, i'm very, if

it turns out pessimistically, then in one case it's a terrible end, in another it's an endless horror. of course. thank you, mr. volodymyr for participation in today's program. we talked a lot today about ukraine, in particular about what was happening related to ukraine in the european union, about the appointment, how it will all be. for ukraine in the future , we talked very briefly, but about the american elections, mr. volodymyr, thank you, volodymyr horbach, executive director of the institute for the transformation of northern europe, what about eurasia, eurasia, i apologize, well, i have to to conclude this espresso interview, see you in the next ones programs, my name is yuriy fizar, see you soon. there are discounts representing the only discounts

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on espresso. this is a time of rest and recovery, and i believe that this year we will be able to present a real fairy tale and a little peace for children, whose world was destroyed by war. these are the children of fallen heroes, father or mother, who died at the front while protecting us and you, our country, and they, like no one else, have our support, because they are the future of our countries. our experience has shown that travel helps children recover more quickly after a loss. children feel better emotionally. i am asking you to support our project. we are planning to organize two trips for the children of fallen heroes this summer. children will experience bright emotions, they will get to know a new country, a new culture, find new friends, and

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in ukraine, it's 6 p.m. and we have a news release on the espresso tv channel in the studio of iryna koval. greetings to all viewers and just now. to the most important events, let's start with the situation in kharkiv, the enemy hit the city with mortars, writes the head of the kharkiv regional military administration oleg sinigubov. there is still no information about the victims, the data on the destruction is being verified, specialized services have gone to the place. rockets also flew during air alarm and on myrhorod, in the poltava region, the enemy previously used iskande missiles.