it will fluctuate between 28-30°, it was very difficult to predict with precipitation, i want to share with you and admit honestly that i am not sure today, there is a possibility of short-term rain with a thunderstorm, but the front is literally approaching on the forecast maps kyiv seems to be freezing, so we will watch together and, of course, watch the updated weather forecasts on the espresso channel. good evening! from ukraine, this is the verdict, but i'm in the studio again, i remind you that my name is vasyl zima, serhii rudenko will return to work in some time, and for now i i will work together with you this hour from 20:00 to 21:00, we will talk with our guests, today we have two topics for conversation, first we will talk... about corruption,

of course, such a top topic, this is the story with tyshchenko, with deputy prosecutor general verbytskyi, who cannot explain who his girlfriend is, where they have such large sums of money, property worth a large amount of money, how this story continues, what are the decisions regarding the deputy prosecutor general, and in general the loudest corruption scandals with the participation of representatives of the authorities, and the second topic is this electricity energy, power outages, prospects, opportunities, risks, how to actually prepare for autumn, and especially for winter, because you know, winter has such a peculiarity, it always passes somehow very quickly, especially when hot summer is outside the windows or doors, well and now with us is iryna fedoriv, ​​journalist, head of the needle public initiative, mrs. iryna, i congratulate you, good day, and i am also glad to see and hear, and also oleksiy. koshel, he is

a doctor of historical sciences and the head of the committee of voters of ukraine. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you. good afternoon, good evening. yes, we have such a fertile topic: corruption in ukraine, and especially corruption among representatives of the authorities. and you know what i'll start with. i was thinking this morning, i don't even know if we will have such a topic, but i became interested, i think, how many such big corruption stories we have, which later turned into certain processes, stirred up society, had some kind of reaction like that. .. as they say, the feedback from the authorities, from anti-corruption bodies arose due to the initiative or assistance of state anti-corruption agencies authorities, because i know the story with 17 eggs, this is an investigation by a journalist, and an employee of the odesa shopping center, who took how many millions he collected there, bought himself an estate in spain, this is again a message from journalists, from public activists, from social movements, and which we have, well... even

the story that happened in stychenkou, in principle, too, the very participants who suffered in this story, well, this topic was agitated, raised, and again we we have a reaction, but it's just in memory, i'm not asking to give any statistical verified information there according to your memory, how many stories do we have when really such big corruption scandals arose with the assistance or at the behest of representatives of the authorities who should be engaged in the fight against corruption, mr. oleksiy, let's start with you. let's read, maybe you remember, because i can't remember anything, well, i definitely can't remember the number of facts, if we talk about trends, really quite a few, well, you don't remember, i don't remember, that is, obviously the anti-corruption system today it is not working properly, i will remind you that in the future, well for at least the last year, we have been regularly hearing from our western partners about slovospoluchen.

the need to fight corruption, actually the action plan for ukraine, which was proposed by our partners in september of last year, i will remind you, it was a detailed action plan with sequence and deadlines, later in may we also received several statements from the us secretary of state, from the ambassador of the united states in ukraine about the need to introduce anti-corruption reforms, well, actually, you need to at least listen to this, and. and now to the lady iryna, in your memory there are such high-profile cases that were initiated by representatives of those bodies created by the state in order to fight corruption, because again, the loudest scandal, which really caused such a public uproar, and they were as a result of certain investigations on the part of journalists, investigators, or public activists who... on a public basis fight against

corruption scandals, or people who simply read there the reports of this property, which are submitted, and the officials give, and where does this money come from you generally human. and is it possible, do you remember such a story, when indeed certain bodies created by the state, financed by the budget, initiated such cases, i mean really large scandalous stories, well, this is really a greater merit of journalists, investigators and the public sector that investigates this , and i will now tell you more about the layer of these investigations on the part of the journalistic sector and the public sector, because for how many years we have not seen declarations. they are only now opening the declarations, well, in fact, there is less than a year of access there is, and people are starting to see, to be interested and to investigate, and one thing there, when we talk about the national level, believe me, when we look at the local level, it's just

that really the public sector, it can't check every community, then there can be , that one deputy of a simple city council has more than 500 apartments on it. well , there have been such cases of 500 apartments, so we will talk about apartments now, because there the property of the apartments to a greater extent concerns dmytro verbytskyi, the deputy ex-deputy of the general prosecutor, it is very difficult there, people cannot explain the origin of the property, and well, there is a story about property worth 15 million from the former deputy head of the president's office, there is also such a story, well, a little smaller, smaller scale, but in any case it is also... and other bodies also have their own representatives, again, when i talk about certain bodies, for example, the security service, the general prosecutor's office, the territorial recruitment centers of the ground forces of the ministry of defense, this does not mean that all are bad, yes, because people always think, that if you name some people, then they are all like that

and not all of them are wonderful people who work professionally, but there are such and such representatives, and there are various amounts involved, we will talk about them all, but the story that i want to discuss with you, because it is also very... symptomatic, this is the story of a people's deputy of ukraine, i even looked it up specifically for myself, because it is important, this is a people's deputy of ukraine who was elected in electoral district number 219, this is the city of kyiv, svyatoshynskyi district, that is, these are specific people, this person elected to the parliament, well, obviously they thought that this person would change the country for the better, but as of now, we have this, well, the preliminary final of his activity, we are talking about mykola tyshchenko, of course, i am generally in favor of... i will ask, first of all , i will ask, he now has a home 24-hour arrest, mr. oleksiy, it should have happened earlier, and why did this scandal that happened in the city of dnipro cause such a stir, and why earlier, well, obvious actions

that had a spectrum of questions, did not cause these questions to anyone, well, if we talk specifically about the story with mykola tyschenko. then in recent years, there has been a whole series of scandals there, starting from thailand, from visits in various semi-easy formats to prague, if i am not mistaken, that is , he allowed himself such a rather specific lifestyle, which simply goes beyond the boundaries of a healthy lump of reason and beyond the boundaries of the ethical framework during the war, well , this story gathered society, well, it couldn’t be any other way, you understand, that is, there was... a military man with a small child in a stroller, they pushed him away, the military man was deprived of the ability to move, this is serious enough things, there should be criminal liability. according to the story with tyschenko, i think that this story will end in nothing, most likely. and actually, this

tyshchenko support group or a group of militants, i don't know how to call them better, or guards, i think we will see the old technique, when they will take the blame, and what's more, there... they will even try to expose tyshchenko the hero, as they say, he said the exact opposite and he simply did not give any instructions to deprive him of the possibility of movement, and here , in fact, i would not want us to i had the impression that we were simply immersed in corruption, in fact, if you look at the past decades, we have done quite serious things in the fight against corruption , well, let's see, iryna mentioned electronic declaration there, yes ... now the public, now journalists have the opportunity to simply study the lives of high-ranking officials under a microscope. second, the reporting of political parties. again, i would like to remind you that recently, just a few days ago, the national agricultural research service, the national agricultural agency suspended state funding

one of the political parties. next - the system is transparent. yes, not everything is simple, yes, there are punctures, manual firms are selected in manual mode, but the vast majority of problems. we were able to solve, and therefore, actually, in order for us to fight corruption, we need to introduce such fundamental changes, is there a problem with anti-corruption, like the ones i just talked about? bodies, we are changing the legislative framework, strengthening the legislative framework, simplifying, changing the mechanisms for the election of supervisory boards, the election of management, these are the details, around which, to which, on which a lot depends, but i will ask, i will just say a word about the fight against corruption in general, then i will give mrs. irina the opportunity to speak about the prospects. the case of mykola tyshchenko, whom i will now remind, under 24-hour house arrest,

the head of the office of the president of ukraine andriy yermak said a phrase with which i cannot disagree, by the way, that corruption is everywhere, in ukraine it is not the greatest, i once in 2009 as the journalist of the ictv tv channel was on secondment in vilnius, lithuania. and talked with the minister, it's 2009, yushchenko was even our president a long time ago, and he said then, i think he was the minister there... of the economy, he said that young man corruption is everywhere, it is also in the european union also, and there was a further continuation of the story, so here i can only agree with the words of andriy yermak, that we can say that there is no corruption somewhere, no, we see the story, let's say that angela merkel knew about the fact that putin wants to actually control europe through the northern currents, but she didn't say that, well, these are signs political corruption, signs of the ex -minister of the ministry of foreign affairs of the republic of austria. actually worked for putin and lived there in russia, this is corruption, corruption, kurs, the former

prime minister of austria, are also signs, and there are many such stories, it’s just that they may not be so large-scale, and there is no war in these countries, but again, i agree that corruption is everywhere, the question is to what extent and to what extent it undermines the state's ability to develop in general, to and steals the prospects of this state, but calm down, ms. iryna, how do you think, do you agree with mr. oleksiy, that this story will end in nothing, or after all... well, we must finally move to the stage when such stories should not end in nothing. well, look, the judicial system can issue different decisions in our country, we know this, if we take the case of a lviv judge who has a russian passport, then when the first instance was held, they ruled in favor of the lviv judge, who was found to have a russian passport, then in the appeal. the supreme court managed to defend this issue, and lviv did not return to his position in the supreme

court, so i would like to believe that justice still works in our country, and we can count on the fact that the case will be considered here according to the law and the guilty will be brought to justice, but i want to talk about tyshchenko's case here to remind that it's not just that our history escalated when the headquarters war started, let's remember the old days, the restaurant in velur, but then the responsibility did not come, remember, and then there was such a loud party in the restaurant, i'll just remind , and which belongs to mykola tyshchenko, there in the center of kyiv, violated quarantine restrictions, let's say so, and well , the whole country knew about it, well, the political sector knew about it, well, everyone knew about it, that is , when in this country they say sit until... don't go out, whatever please, we have a coronavirus here, we have tyshchenko, this does not apply, please,

to his restaurant, it works absolutely calmly, and when we do not have punishments immediately, when people violate policies that are basically approved by the state, well, we have it turns out that there is a long process, then we have it there the monaco battalion, the thai battalion, tyshchenko was also already mentioned by mr. koshel. traveled to thailand and said that it was a meeting with the voters, well, you understand, everyone is such an absurdity, well, society swallows him, responsibility does not arise, remember the elections in frankiv oblast, when tyshchenko came to nadvirna, he simply landed where the ballots were missing, there that district was won by virastyuk, the servant of the people, because the ballots were lost, and it turns out that every time we have a question for tyshchenko, but the responsibility is not on... there is, so i would very much like that in this case, well we would have put an end to it somehow. well, really

, you know, there is such a story here, when, well , let's even remember, for example, the old days, when in the united states of america with a panamanian passport, somewhere in greece, if i'm not mistaken, pavlo ivanovich lozarenko, in my opinion, was detained i did not confuse anything with the passport, and with the place of detention, and almighty. and the man, the head of the so-called dnipropetrovsk clan, which had a huge influence in ukraine, just became a prisoner in a prison in the united states of america, by the way, there were such stories in ukraine as well. when people who they seemed like that, well, nothing should happen to them, in the sense of investigations, very easily these bubbles were blown, absolutely easily, and you know, there is a period, the question is that you need to take some step and cross that moment when there are untouchables , i’ll literally take a moment, i recently watched excerpts of such a soviet film,

by the way, with the pro-putinist propagandist mikhalkov in the main role, but he described himself very well there, by the way, in perspective... and he got into a state employee of the auto inspection, who did not want to understand, but was explained to him by mikhalkov, who played some kind of boss, do you understand, he says, there are people alone, and there are people, there are people who cannot, and there are people who can, there are people for whom there are rules are written, but there are people for whom the rules are not written, it was in soviet times, and it remains the same in russia now, and i would really like it to be the same here, and this employee dy said that i never i will understand that no matter what i manage to survive, i will be convinced that everyone should be... equal before the law, but this one is also there is a conflict that one explains, well, man, well, you live in the real world, well, not everyone is the same, i can, i can, and someone can’t, that’s how, like just a mechanism, or is it a certain time that must pass, or what that it really becomes clear that there are no people for whom there are other rules, or for whom the rules do not

apply, mr. oleksiy, well, any government always tries to control... there are at least part of the schemes, part of the corruption flows , well, in any case, we perfectly understand that it is not about single facts not about single cases, that is, it is obvious that 95-98-9% is corruption that we simply did not notice, not according to declarations, not according to other things that are in the public domain, because whoever is at least a little smarter, smarter, he simply does not write down expensive apartments there, expensive real estate there for his wife or does not buy on his own. or does not make fictitious divorces, that is, there are obviously many other schemes, in which it is possible, at best , to legalize these funds through some fictitious business there, at worst, to write them down there to persons in whom no one even thinks to check, that is, the scale of corruption is actually extremely, extremely large, and for us it is actually a huge problem, because in

the context of war, it means that we are losing a huge flow of money. in that period of time, when people spend thousands of hryvnias on drones, when volunteers work for the front, we really lose a huge amount of money, but i will give only one figure, this figure was just literally a year before the large-scale invasion, said one of the representatives of the government bodies , he talked about what his estimate, well, actually it was a reference there to certain developed analytical reports, an annual thing on... the measurement of gray schemes at customs, i emphasize, that is, not holes, but gray schemes at customs, in the region of 10 billion dollars a year, this is me i refer to the figures that were announced by government representatives. i understand that it is not possible to eradicate corruption, you know, this is how they say that we will not have a shadow economy, or we will not have corruption, a certain percentage will be necessary, but

it is possible to overcome, at least to a large extent, it is absolutely realistically, we have... an excellent example of georgia, which has solved corruption issues in some areas, well, at least by 2/3, that's for sure, and now in the conditions of war, it's an opportunity for us to fill the state budget, including financing the army, but on it's a great pity, now the fight against corruption is perceived in our country as coercion from the west, but if we go to the search engine and type in the phrase that the ambassador of the great sinka recommended, we will see that in fact... with a frequency of once a month, in the last years in the harsh phase of the war, the great ambassador the seven points to us that, dear, in this or that draft law, there is a possibility that there will be corruption holes in the case of adoption, there it is proposed to implement certain schemes, and in fact a paradoxical situation arises, when european

states, through the mouths of their ambassadors, actually force i will support to carry out certain anti-corruption steps at least partially, i am not talking about the state's reputation, by the way, these are also quite serious things, because when we see that the west is getting tired of ukraine, the west does big pauses regarding financial support, including weapons, we must remember that this is also the merit of ukraine, also the merit of our government, which does not work, does not demonstrate, and which, unfortunately, has questions. and you know, as forrest gump said, that life is a box of candies, and you never know when they will run out, and some people really want to have access to these all the time. boxes of candies and always eat sweets, on the other hand igor valeriovych kolomoisky, who is currently sitting behind bars, said that life is a supermarket and sooner or later you come to the cash register has to be paid, and by the way, now

ukraine is in such a situation where it has to restructure its debts, otherwise it may end up in default, in a default state, and i think that our western partners now have a great opportunity to explain to some people why you can't steal, because, well, because there simply won't be any money, and ukraine must be supported, but in any case... you know how it worked, i was once a volunteer, worked with these people who were trying to get rid of drug addiction, you always help people, but then you're in trouble at this stage, you understand that a person does not want to change, he just constantly needs money to buy for himself and simply transfers it to the category of, well, we give you the minimum amount of money, as it is now done in canada, in germany, and in many other countries countries, over there in holland, they will stab you and at least somehow live there, but i don't want ukraine to come to a state where they will treat us like a drug addict... corruption, and they will say, well, here we just have to give dose, so that it simply does not die there, but i would not like it that way, and i really wouldn't like it, in fact, mrs. iryna, ending the tyshchenko topic, i would also like

to ask your opinion, and the support for this deputy has now been withdrawn, at least officially by the beads of the spokesman, the servant of the people, the person to whom he appealed in his photos in his posts, tyshchenko is the head of the office. president andriy yeermak, who is his godfather, and in ukraine nepotism, for some reason such a fetish is very developed, said that he does not have any relations with him, now, this is the separation from him of people who could, well, obviously to influence his fate, it means something, whether and whether it is evidence that even many people in power understand that there is no limit, and here mr. tyshchenko has come and let everything be according to the law, that's how the law will decide , so let it be in his life, and it will be a science for others. who want to go somewhere with checks from the non-existent tsk, and or come up with some other things up to the deprivation of freedom of movement and beating

of a serviceman, please, well, look, let's talk like this, when he became very toxic, then you can make statements, but in normal society, while mr. kochel was telling us important things, i allowed myself to google a little and looked at the bbc headlines: johnson leaves the british parliament because of a scandalous party, we also remember that there was a breach of quarantine in britain, and when he violated quarantine rules, that is, when your government imposed quarantine rules and restrictions during covid, you violated them, you take responsibility for it, and this is the level of consciousness when people understand that they need to somehow to act in a way, not to make some kind of political statement, i am not me and... and so on, but to take some real steps, well, we can't wait for tyshchenko to draw up a mandate, he will be hitting the phones, well, they understand, who are already entering such a taxi field of styshchenko, that

it is easier to make a statement that we are not with him, but well , we also understand real things, to make a statement and not support it, well, that is also a question, we will see, because you can make political statements a lot, and then try to influence the system, you know, i... this is what people write in the comments here by the way people, i am asking people, viewers, our dear listeners, well, who might be busy with something, just listening, someone might be watching youtube in the chat, people are writing, please, by the way, like, sign, comment, share our video on youtube, the espresso tv channel, what corruption - writes contributor alla karpovich, what corruption i was in poland and now i can't compare now, i wasn't in poland then i was now, well, i didn't encounter corruption in poland , but i obviously understand that there is some progress. i don't remember which one it is, but it's still for in the days of the russian empire , there was a mayor in kyiv who paid money to his subordinates, well , he was a rich man, so that they would not

take bribes, that is, he still understood that they would not be without money, it would still take somewhere, that's why i'd rather let him work and not take bribes, well, this way of fighting corruption was used, for example, but still it was not eradicated, but again, i just don't know the experience. by the way, if anyone wants to talk about poland to express myself, mr. or mrs. oleksiy, i may or may not, or the experience of poland, i will quickly say one remark that my colleagues went even to those communities where the budget is not very large, and there are quite developed communities, because they followed the path of decentralization . we have been carrying out this reform for 10 years, and in principle every community has learned how to earn money there, to see where they can create jobs,

how to attract investments, and this is actually a very good example, because poland passed this stage well , and we, when entered into decentralization, we counter, we gave resources down, but we did not introduce the control function, you see, and there is a problem with this, when you give resources and do not control them, well, then there are corruption risks, that is clear, yes, i i know that romania's experience is wonderful, there was such a wonderful... official who fought corruption, i just can't remember her name now, but the experience is there, even countries that were in the so-called, not in the so-called, in the countries of the warsaw pact, of course, the countries of soviet influence, but even there after the collapse of the ussr, this struggle was quite effective, but volodymyr lytvyn once said, i remember his phrase, that if you take a green cucumber and throw it into a plate with sour cucumbers, it will still turn sour, so the question is what fills, that fills

this board. and well, for now, i would like there to be more cucumbers, fresh, i mean, officials, but the history to which we are now moving is also important, and here it is important to understand its prospects and it as a phenomenon, there are so many like that this is about ex-deputy general prosecutor dmytro verbytskyi, who appeared in journalistic investigations, he resigned, it was news yesterday, yesterday it was known that he resigned on his own. desire, but he could not explain a certain property that was worth quite a lot of money, his girlfriend also could not explain the appearance of property worth uah 52 million, it is discussed in different ways, but the prosecutor general mr. kostin was invited to the verkhovna rada of ukraine to he explained what was happening, how it happened, he did not then was able to come to the meeting of the parliament, in any case, now it will end with the fact

that... well, it does not end, but the current situation is that the deputy prosecutor general was dismissed at his own will, and here, mr. oleksiy, i i want to ask you what's next, and again, if we talk about the prosecutor general's office, the importance is the work during the war, very great importance in fact, huge, it is to record the crimes of the enemy, investigate, work on it, well, a lot of work and current work, we understand, but if there are any people who can't explain... a huge fortune, how to deal with it, and father's voluntary dismissal is the maximum you can count on? well, i think it would be good to see a voluntary statement from the attorney general, because we are talking about his deputy, not a rank-and-file employee of the prosecutor's office, not a mid-level employee, but a deputy attorney general. at the same time , the prosecutor general is taking such a step of public disrespect to the parliament, when

he does not even come to... the meeting is not reported, and there can be no explanation here, that there is a period of investigation, not an investigation, there should be reporting on this matter in any case, but you know, on the issue of fighting corruption, i would also like to note such a very interesting and important feature that in us, as a rule , the fight against corruption boils down to, you know, a magic button, we will press it, we will solve these issues, and we always had high expectations there, we will create an anti-corruption court there and everything will work. there will be a system of anti-corruption bodies, everything will work, no, dear, no will work, single steps will never work, in the same way that the mechanisms will not work, let's say he will plant three friends, but now, god willing, tyshchenko will be planted there, someone else will also be planted there, this also does not solve the issue, neither a big fish, nor three friends, fishing must be constant, must be daily, and here it is important that the fight against corruption must be reduced to boring. there is

media uninteresting work on the part of the ukrainian parliament, the ukrainian government, a system must be built, then we will see the result, and here is what ms. iryna said, is very important at the local level, and to be honest, it is still not clear to me why certain communities allocate huge funds there for major repairs, for facades, for sidewalks, for asphalts, and the government is unable to do so. even solve these issues, moreover, dear cabinet, you have a mechanism, you have a state treasury, you can stop all these ridiculous wartime things, but i understand that these are all large-scale repair works in wartime, this is also a big field to corruption, i can't explain today, the highway from kyiv to buchi, very high-quality asphalt, overhaul, being moved and built and...