you are always in front of our eyes, they cry for you, they pray for you, we did not give up, because we knew that you are already somewhere nearby, half the battle is to know how difficult victory is, and we... will do everything to hug you as soon as possible , so when you are at home, when we are together, we are more than a family, we are a nation united around you.

this is the verdict, but i am in the studio again, i remind you that my name is vasyl zima. serhii rudenko will return to work in a while, and while i will work with you this hour from 8 to 9 p.m., we will talk with our guests, today we took two topics for conversation, first we will talk about corruption, of course such a top topic is the story of tyshchenko with... deputy prosecutor general verbytsky, who cannot explain who his girlfriend is, where they got such large sums of money, property for a large amount of money, how does this story continue, what are the decisions regarding the deputy prosecutor general, well , in general, the loudest corruption scandals, scandals involving the participation of representatives of the authorities, and the second topic is electricity, energy, blackouts, prospects, opportunities, risks, how to actually prepare... us for

autumn, and especially for winter, because you know, winter has such a peculiarity, it always passes somehow very quickly, especially when hot summer is outside the windows or doors. well , now with us iryna fedoriv, ​​journalist, head of the public initiative needle, mrs. iryna, i congratulate you, good day, and i am also glad to see and hear, and also oleksii koshel, he is a doctor of historical sciences and the head of the committee of voters of ukraine, mr. oleksii. greetings, good afternoon, good evening, and this is our topic grace, corruption in ukraine, and especially corruption among representatives of the authorities, and you know, where do i start, i was thinking this morning, i don’t even know if we will have such a topic, but i became interested, i think how many of us such big corruption stories, which later turned into certain processes, disturbed society, had some kind of reaction, as they say, feedback from the authorities, from anti-corruption bodies arose due to and...

the initiative or assistance of the state anti-corruption bodies, because i know the history with 17 eggs, this is an investigation by a journalist, and the employee of tsc odesa, who took how many millions he collected there, bought himself an estate in spain, this is again a message from journalists, from public activists, from public movements, and which we have, well, even the story that happened in stychenkou, in principle, it is also the participants themselves who suffered in this story. well, this topic was stirred up, raised, and again we have a reaction, but just from memory, i am not asking you to give some statistical verified information, according to your memory, how many stories do we have, when in reality they are so big corruption scandals arose with the assistance or at the request of representatives of the authorities who should be engaged in the fight against corruption, mr. oleksiy, let's start with you, maybe you remember, because i can't remember anything, well, about the number. i definitely can’t

remember the facts, if we talk about trends, there are really quite a few, well, you don’t remember, i don’t remember, that is, obviously the anti-corruption system in our country does not work properly today, i will remind you that during, well , at least the last year we regularly hear phrases from our western partners the need to fight corruption, actually the action plan for ukraine, which was proposed by our... partners last september, i will remind you, it was a detailed action plan with a sequence, with deadlines, later in may we also received several statements from the state secretary usa, from the ambassador of the united states in ukraine about the need to introduce anti-corruption reforms, well, actually, you need to at least listen to this, and now to mrs. iryna, do you really have such high-profile cases in your memory? which were initiated precisely

representatives of those bodies created by the state in order to fight corruption, because again, they are the loudest scandals that really caused a public outcry. drilling, they were the result of certain investigations by either journalists, investigators, or public activists who fight against corruption on a public basis, or people who simply read the reports on this property, which are also submitted by officials, and where does this money come from you are a person at all, or maybe you remember such a story, when really certain organs creation of the state'. such cases were initiated by the budget, i mean really big scandalous stories, well, it is really more to the credit of journalists, investigators and the public sector that investigates this, and i will tell you now, what a layer of these investigations on the part of the journalistic sector and

the public sector i asked, because we haven't seen the declarations for how many years, they are only now opening the declarations, well, in fact, there is less than a year before... it is happening, and people are starting to see, be interested and investigate, and one thing there, when we talk about the national level, believe me, when we look at the local level, it's just that the public sector, it can't check every community, it could be that one deputy of a simple city council has more than 500 apartments registered on it, well, there have been such cases, 500 apartments, that's how we are now... let's talk more about apartments, there apartments, property to a greater extent concern dmytro verbytskyi, the deputy, ex-deputy of the prosecutor general, it's very difficult there, people can't explain the origin of the property, and there is a story about property worth 15 million from the former deputy

head of the president's office, there is also such a story, well, a little smaller, smaller scale, but in any case it is and other bodies also have such representatives, again, when i talk about certain bodies, let's say the security service. the general prosecutor's office and the territorial recruitment centers of the ground forces of the ministry of defense, this does not mean that all are bad, yes, because people always think that if you name some people, then they are all like that, but not all of them are like that wonderful people who work professionally, yes , but there are such, there are such representatives, and various sums appear there, we will talk about them all, but the history that i want to discuss with you, because it is also very symptomatic, it is the history of the people deputy of ukraine, and i even watched it specially for myself, because it is important, he is a people's deputy. of ukraine, who was elected in electoral district number 219, this is the city of kyiv, svyatoshynskyi district, that is, these are specific people, this person was elected to the parliament, well, obviously, they thought that this person would change the country for the better, but he has as of now, we have the following, well, the preliminary

final of his activities, we are talking about mykola tyshchenko, of course, i will ask in general, first i will ask in general, he is currently under 24-hour house arrest, mr. oleksiy, eh, this should have happened earlier, and why this scandal , which happened in the city of dnipro, it led to such a resonance, and why earlier, well, obvious actions that had a spectrum of questions, did not cause these questions in anyone. well, if we specifically talk about the story with mykola tyschenko, then in recent years there has been a whole series of scandals, starting from thailand, there from... visits in various semi-easy formats to prague, if i am not mistaken, that is , he allowed himself such a rather specific way of life, which simply goes beyond the boundaries of common sense and beyond the boundaries and boundaries of ethical frameworks during the war, well,

society gathered this story, well, it couldn't be any other way, you understand, that is, there was a military man with a small child in a stroller, they pushed the military man away... they deprived him of the opportunity to move, these are serious enough things, there should be criminal liability. according to the story with tyschenko, i i think that this story will end in nothing, most likely, and actually, this tyshchenko support group or a group of militants, i don't know which one is better to call it, or the guards, i think that we will see the old trick when they take the blame and moreover, there they will even try to expose tyshchenko to the heroes, saying that he said the complete opposite and did not give any instructions. he simply did not allow to deprive the possibility of movement, and here in fact, i would not like us to get the impression that we simply plunged into corruption, in fact, if you look at it, let's say over the past decades, we have done quite serious things in the fight against corruption

, well, let's see, irina mentioned electronic declaration there, so now the public, now journalists have the opportunity to simply study the lives of high-ranking officials under a microscope. second, the reporting of political parties. again, i would like to remind you that recently, just a few days ago, the nzk suspended state funding for the zk. political parties. next - the system is transparent. yes, not everything is simple, yes there are punctures, manual firms are selected in manual mode, but we were able to solve the vast majority of problems. and that's why, actually, in order for us to fight corruption, we need to introduce such fundamental changes, like the ones i just talked about. is there a problem with anti-corruption authorities? we are changing the legal framework. we are strengthening the legislative framework, simplifying, changing the mechanisms for the election

of supervisory boards, the election of management, these are the details around which, on which, on which a lot depends, and i will ask, here i am i will only say a word about the fight against corruption in general, then i will give ms. iryna the opportunity to speak about the perspective of the case of mykola tyshchenko, which i will now recall under 24-hour house arrest, and... the head of the office of the president of ukraine andriy yermak said a phrase with which, by the way, i do not i can't agree that corruption is everywhere, in ukraine it is not the biggest, once in 2009, as a journalist of the ictv tv channel, i was on secondment in vilnius, lithuania. and i talked with the minister, it was 2009 , yushchenko was still the president in our country in the old days, and he said then, i think it was the minister of agriculture there, he said that young man, corruption is everywhere, and in the european union as well. and there was a further continuation of the story, so here i can only agree with the words of andriy yermak, that it is okay

to talk about the fact that there is no corruption somewhere, no, well, we see the story, let's say with the fact that angela merkel knew that putin through nord stream wants to actually control europe, but she did not say that, well, these are signs of political corruption, signs of the former minister the former minister of foreign affairs of the austrian republic, who actually worked for putin and lived in russia while there, this is corruption, corruption, course... the former prime minister of austria is also the sign of such stories, there are many signs of such stories, it's just that they may not be so large-scale and there is no war there in these countries, but again, i agree that corruption exists everywhere, the question is to what extent and to what extent it undermines the state's ability to develop, to the extent that it steals the prospects of this state, but potyshchenko, mrs. iryna, what do you think, you agree with mr. oleksiy that this story will end in nothing, or after all, well, we must finally go to the stage when such stories don't... have to end in nothing? well, look, the judicial system can

issue different decisions in our country, we know that, if we take the case of the lviv judge, who was found with a russian passport, then when the first instance was held, they ruled in favor of the lviv judge, who was found with a russian passport, then in the appeal , the supreme court managed to defend this issue, and lviv did not return to... a position in the supreme court, therefore, i would like to believe that justice still works in our country, and we can count on the fact that the case will be considered according to the law and the guilty will be brought to justice, but i want to remind you about the tyshchenko case that this is not just our history intensified when a full-scale war began, let's remember the days of the soviet union, the restaurant in velor, but then it did not come. responsibility, do you remember, at that time there was such a loud party in a restaurant, i will just remind the one that belongs to

mykola tyshchenko, there in the center of kyiv, they violated the quarantine restrictions, let's say, and well, the whole country knew about it, well , the political sector knew about it, well , everyone just knew about it, that is, when in this country they say stay at home, don’t go out, please, we have a coronavirus here, we have tyshchenko, it’s not concerns... please, his restaurant works absolutely calmly, and when we don't have punishments immediately, when people violate policies that are basically approved by the state, well, then we have a long process, then we have the monaco battalion, the thai battalion, eh, mr. koshel also mentioned tyshchenko, to thailand traveled and said that this is a meeting with the voters, well, you see, everyone is so absurd. well, society swallows him, responsibility does not arise. remember the elections

in frankiv oblast, when tyshchenko came to the courthouse, he simply landed, where the ballots were missing, virastyuk, the servant of the people, won in that district, because the ballots were missing, and it turns out that every time we have a question for tyshchenko, but the responsibility does not come, then i would very much like that in this case, well , somehow we would put an end to it, well, really. you know, there is such a story when, well, even, let's remember, for example, the old days when in the united states of america there was... with a panamanian passport, somewhere in greece, if i'm not mistaken, pavel ivanovich lozarenko was detained, in my opinion, i did not confuse anything with the passport, with the place detention, and an all-powerful person, the head of the so -called dnipropetrovsk clan, who had a huge influence in ukraine, well, he became just a prisoner in a prison in the united states of america, such stories, by the way, also happened

in ukraine, when people who seemed to be somehow like that, well nothing should happen to them in in the sense of investigations, very... these bubbles blew up absolutely easily and you know, here the period is the question that you need to take some step and step over, this is the moment when there are inviolability, i will literally take a moment, i was looking there and recently thieves like this the film was soviet, by the way , with a pro-putin propagandist, nikito mikhalkov in the main role, but he was very good there, by the way, he described himself in perspective, he fell in love with an employee of the state auto inspection, who did not want to understand... and mikhalkov, who played some boss, what do you understand, he says, there are people alone, and there are people, there are people who cannot, and there are people who can, there are people for whom the rules are written, and there are people for whom the rules are not written, it was in soviet times, and it remains the same in russia now, and i would very much like it to be the same here, and this employee dy said that i will never understand it, that whatever i do not manage to survive, i will be convinced , that everyone should

be equal before the law, but there is also such a conflict that one explains, well, a person is fine... and you live in the real world, well, no everyone is the same, i can, i can, and someone can’t, that’s how, like just a mechanism, or is it a certain time that must pass, or something, so that it really becomes clear that there are no such people for whom there are other rules, or for what rules do not apply, mr. oleksiy, well, any government, it always tries to control there, at least part of the schemes, part of the corruption flows, but in any case, we perfectly... understand that it is not about isolated facts, no about single cases, that is , it is obvious that 95-98-9% is the kind of corruption we are they simply did not notice, not according to the declarations, not according to other things that are in the public domain, because someone who is at least a little smarter, smarter, he simply does not write down expensive apartments there, expensive real estate there for his wife

or does not buy on his own, or does not make fictitious divorces, i.e. there are obviously many other schemes in which it is possible to... at best legalize these funds through some fictitious business there, at worst to register them there for persons whom no one would think to even check, i.e. the scale of corruption is actually extraordinary, extraordinary big, and for us this is actually a huge problem, because in the conditions of the war it means that we are losing a huge flow of money, at a time when people are spending thousands of hryvnias on drones, when volunteers are working... for the front, we are really losing a huge amount of money, but i will give only one figure, this figure is just literally a year before the large-scale invasion, one of the representatives of the government bodies spoke, he spoke about the fact that in his estimation, well, actually it was a reference there to certain developed analytical reports, annual annual

the measurement of gray schemes at customs, i emphasize, that is, not holes, but rather gray schemes. at customs in the region of 10 billion dollars per year, here i refer to the figures that were announced by government representatives. i understand that it is impossible to eradicate corruption, you know, this is how they say that we will not have a shadow economy, or we will not have corruption, a certain percentage will be necessary, but it is possible to overcome it, at least to a large extent, it is absolutely real. we have an excellent example of georgia, which solved corruption issues in certain directions, well... that's for sure, but now on terms wars, this is an opportunity for us to fill the state budget, including financing the army, but unfortunately, now the fight against corruption is perceived in our country as coercion from the west, but if we go to the search engine and fill in the words of the ambassadors of the big seven recommended , we will see that

in fact with a frequency of once a month, in recent years in the conditions of a hard phase. the ambassadors of the big seven are pointing the finger at us that , dear, in this or that bill , there is a possibility that in case of adoption there will be corruption holes, there it is proposed to carry out certain schemes, and in fact a paradoxical situation emerges, when european states, through the mouths of their ambassadors , actually force, under coercion, at least partially to carry out certain anti-corruption steps, i am not talking about questions. the reputation of the state, by the way, these are also quite serious things, because when we see that the west is getting tired of ukraine, the west makes big pauses regarding financial support. including weapons, we must remember that this is also ukraine's merit, as well as ours power that does not work, does not demonstrate, and to

which, unfortunately, there are questions, and, you know, as forrest gump said, that life is a box of candies, and you do not know when they will end there, and some people are very want to have constant access to this box of sweets and always eat sweets, on the other hand igor valeriovych kolomoiskyi, who is currently sitting behind bars, has spent his life in a supermarket and sooner or later you come to the cash register and have to pay, and by the way, ukraine is in such a situation now , when it has to restructure debts, otherwise it can to be in default, in a state of default, and i think that our western partners now have a great opportunity to explain to some people why you cannot steal, because, well, because there simply will be no money, and ukraine must be supported, but in any by the way , you know how working with, i used to be a volunteer, i worked with these people who on... get rid of drug addiction, you always help people, but then at some stage you understand that a person does not want to change, he just needs to constantly money to buy for himself and simply transfers it

in terms of the fact that, well, we give you the minimum amount of money, as is currently done in canada, in germany, in many other countries, there in holland, you will be stabbed and somehow live there, but i do not want ukraine to come to that state , when they will treat us like a drug addict from corruption, and they will say, well , we just need to give a dose, so that it doesn't just die there and it doesn't want to anyway. and i really wouldn't want to. mrs. iryna, ending the tyshchenko topic, i would also like to ask your opinion, support, from the support of this deputy has now been refused, at least officially the stork of the spokesman, the servant of the people, the person to whom he appealed in his photos and posts, tyshchenko, this is the head of the president's office andriy yermak, who is his godfather, and in ukraine nepotism, for some reason such a fetish is developed very. said that there is no relationship with him, now, this is the separation from him of people who could, well, obviously influence his fate, it means something, whether and whether this is evidence that even many

people in power understand that there is no the limit, and here mr. tyshchenko has come, and let everything be according to the law, as the law decides, so let it be in his life, and it will be a lesson for other people who want to go somewhere with checks from the non-existent tsk, and or else ... come up with some things up to depriving a serviceman of his freedom of movement and beating him, please, well, look, let's talk like this, when he became very toxic, then you can make statements, but in a normal society, here i am literally, while mr. koschel was telling us important things, allowed myself to google a little and looked here are the bbc headlines: johnson leaves the british parliament because of a scandalous party, this is also what we remember that... that there was a breach of quarantine in britain, and when he violated the quarantine rules, that is, when your government imposed quarantine rules and restrictions

during covid, you violated them, you take responsibility for it, and this is the level of consciousness when people understand that they need to act in some way, not to make some political statement, i, not me, and so on, but to take some real steps, well, we are not from tyshchenko we will wait to see what he will do. mandate, he will be calling the phones, well, they understand that they are already entering such a taxi field of styshchenko, that it is easier to make a statement that we are not with him, but well , we also understand real things, to make a statement and not support it, well, that too question, we'll see, because you can make a lot of political statements, and then try to influence the system, you know, i'm what people write in the comments, by the way , people, i'm asking people, viewers, our dear listeners... who can be there busy with some business only listens, someone may also is watching on youtube, people are writing in the chat, please like, subscribe, comment, share our video on youtube, it is

the espresso tv channel, what corruption - writes contributor alla karpovych, what corruption was in poland, and now, i can't compare now, i wasn't in poland then, i was now, well, i didn't encounter corruption in poland, but i obviously understand that there is some progress, i don't remember who it is, but it was back in the days of the russian empire that there was a mayor in... who paid money to his subordinates, well, he was a rich man, so that they would not took bribes, that is, he still understood that they would not be without money, it would still take somewhere, so i would rather let him work and not take bribes, well, this is a way of fighting corruption and, for example, was used, but all the same, it was not eradicated, but again, i simply do not know the experience of poland in the fight against corruption, so i will not say, well, but obviously, if a person writes, maybe there is some information about it. some more stories, regarding, regarding, by the way, if anyone wants to speak about poland, or madam, or mrs. oleksiy, i can or not, or the experience of poland, i quickly literally.

communities, because they followed the path of decentralization, so we have been carrying out this reform for 10 years, and in principle, every community has learned to earn money there, to see where they can create jobs, how to attract investments, and this is actually a very good example, because poland is good... the stage has passed, and we, when we started decentralization, we, we gave resources down, but we did not introduce the control function, you see, and there is a problem with this, when you give resources and you don't control them, well then there are corruption risks, that's for sure, yes, i know that romania's experience is great, there was such a wonderful official who fought corruption, i just won't remember

her name now, but the experience is there, and even countries that... were in the so-called, not in the so-called, in the countries of the warsaw pact, the countries under soviet influence, but even there after the collapse of the ussr this struggle was quite effective, but volodymyr lytvyn once said, i remember him the phrase that if you take green cucumber and you throw it into a plate with pickles, it still turns sour, so the question is what fills, what fills this plate, and well, for now, i would like there to be more cucumbers, fresh ones , referring to officials. but here is the story to which we are now moving, it is also important, and here it is important to understand the perspectives, and how there are so many similar phenomena, this is about the ex-deputy general prosecutor dmytro verbytsko, who appeared in journalistic investigations , he resigned, that's it yesterday's news, yesterday it was known that he resigned from his post at his own will, but he could not explain certain property that was worth quite

a lot of money, also his girlfriend could not explain the appearance of property worth uah 52 million, it is different there is being discussed, but the prosecutor general mr. kostin was invited to the verkhovna rada of ukraine, or he explained what was happening, how it happens, he was not able to come to the session of the parliament then, in any case, but now it will end with the fact that it does not end, and here is the state of now that the deputy prosecutor general has dismissed him on his own. and here, mr. oleksiy, i want to ask you, what next, and again, if we talk about the prosecutor general's office, the importance of work in wartime, very great importance in fact, huge, it is to record the crimes of the enemy, to investigate, to work on it , well, a lot of work and current work, we understand, but if there are people here who cannot explain huge fortunes, how to deal with it, and the eyes of dismissal

at their own will is the maximum we can count on...? well, i guess it would be good to see the statement of the prosecutor general's own request, because it is about his deputy, not about an ordinary employee of the prosecutor's office, not about a middle-ranking employee, but about the deputy prosecutor general. at the same time , the prosecutor general is taking such a step of public disrespect to the parliament, when he does not even come to the meeting, does not report, and there can be no explanation that there is a period of investigation, not an investigation. there should be reporting on this issue in any case, but you know, the issue of fighting corruption, i i would also like to note such a very interesting and important feature that in our country, as a rule, the fight against corruption boils down to, you know, a magic button, we will press it, we will solve these issues, and we always had high expectations there, we will create an anti-corruption the court and everything will work, there will be a system of anti-corruption bodies, everything will work, no, dear, it will not

work alone... the steps will never work, just as the mechanisms will not work, let's say, put three friends in prison, but now god will provide they will put tyshchenko there and someone else will be imprisoned, this is also not the issue, neither a big fish, nor three friends, fishing must be permanent, must be daily, and here it is important that the fight against corruption must be reduced to boring, media uninteresting work on the part of the ukrainian parliament, the ukrainian government, so... a system must be built, then we will see the result, and what mrs. iryna said is very important at the local level, and to be honest , it is still not incomprehensible to me why certain communities allocate huge funds are there for capital repairs, for facades, on sidewalks, on asphalts, and the government is not even able to solve these issues, moreover, the honorable cabinet of ministers: