primarily to the russians, and in general, if there was no occupation, i understand that there would be no reason, i lived in crimea for 22 years and there were never any excesses, well, except for some excesses related to the black sea by the fleet of the russian federation, when they hit somewhere during exercises there and civilians die or pollute the sevastopol bay, and in general, i remember the ukrainian times in crimea as peaceful times, but now it is clear that... during the occupation by the russians, everyday things happen hostilities, this is a theater of hostilities. what is possible to advise the residents of crimea, who are there, how to behave, whether it is worth going to these beaches, whether it is possible that someone will look even from russia, and finally understand that there is a war going on there, and that it is not necessary to go to the occupied territories, well, what not to guard, that's for sure, but how to save yourself, well... away from military

facilities, and not because we may not hit a military facility, but miss, the fact is that we we use weapons that are highly accurate, the russians used, they use weapons that are not highly accurate, well, for example, this x22 missile, it can deviate up to half a kilometer, well, for a minute, so from the target where it flies, there was information about this attack on the airfield that russia... boasted that they somehow changed the trajectory of the missile's flight, well , this means that they, well, their anti-aircraft defense was working, but, well, it is hardly possible to consider that it is debris, our missile, most likely the fragments of an anti-aircraft missile of the russians, which, well, on the other hand, it seems to me that quite strange, because such a distance as 2-3 km to the beach... where this tragedy happened, and well, a rocket,

an anti-aircraft missile, well, it would, it would only be on a combat course at such a distance, that is, there are many questions, what flew there, well, we were shown the ulanka, but after this attack near this beach, the russians filmed, photographed and identified everything themselves , that it was a russian tor missile, that is, the russians were already blowing up their buildings, they were already... dropping bombs on their own ee on their own cities, it is quite possible that it was a provocation by the russians, it is very similar to them, that they killed on purpose , this is not the first time they have already done it, killed a number of their fellow citizens in order to blame ukraine for this, once again our missile could not get there, because it is highly accurate, the more she hardly wanted to, although to look at the sea maps, they were not attacked by cruise missiles, but by attackers.

a very strange situation arose, because for the first time the russian ministry of attack reported that the ukrainian armed forces there attacked akyar and so on, and almost the russian occupiers there very successfully shot down everything and so on, and while they were reporting about it, in the swedes were already on their way to ukchkivka, and on the other hand, two hours later, we saw how the russian ministry... had already reported something else,

and said that ukraine had committed terrorist acts there, and so on, so we see that russia simply did not understand what to say, how to say it, how to explain it and so on, and two hours later the propagandists again accused ukraine and even the united states of america of this, but at the same time there was no anxiety, no anxiety, nothing in crimea there was, and there... even they are crimean propagandist publics even there razvazayev and gauleiter akhyaro just wanted, well, they had a lot of complaints against him and even said that he should be removed from the post of gauleiter akhyaro, so i have a question, why was there no such concern, why no one did anything said and so on? well, first of all , they try not to announce an alarm, because they believe that in this way they are treating the local population. because there should be

constant worries there, well, as for russia's accusations, well, they haven't come up with anything smarter than trying to tell us what we want to attack the beach, well... you know, unconscious people, well, with the exception of some russian pasipaks, they know the situation perfectly, perfectly can attack, the same missiles, we have them, they are supplied to us with interruptions in small quantities, so allow yourself to shoot on the beach a missile that does not cost 1 million dollars in order to... er, four civilians died, well it's, well, it's like, you know, for the ear is pulled, but the russians come in, they tell them, as they say, even if you spit in their eyes, i will, they say that they will say, well, don’t spit there, they will say that it is god’s dew, so sir,

sir oleksiy, and such a question , actually , occupied crimea has been occupied for 10 years, and already two years of a full-scale invasion, well, for more than a year , ukrainian missiles and drones have been flying over military facilities in crimea, and there is still no system of shelters for the civilian population, i.e. the occupying power deliberately does not spend money, not the oblad equips public places with these shelters, but only after the events of this week, when already in... it became clear that the civilian population is in danger from the occupation, from the actions of the occupation authorities in the first place, they also announced that they will create in public places to build some kind of mobile shelters, but isn't this just some kind of

reassurance, if they couldn't build such shelters for a full-scale invasion in two years, then why suddenly expect the locals that they are now? appear, you know, to build mobiles of some kind, well, i think that's it calmly, it seems to me that there could have been, and funds were allocated for some kind of shelters, but they were busy in russia and did not build anything, you know, if they start, they are trying to explain to the population inside crimea that crimea is there i came to my home port, that there are at least stones from the sky, that there are no... reasons to worry, that everything will be fine, but to start spending constantly, turn on the air alarm, constantly start drawing where there is a bomb shelter, so that people know where to hide from shelling, this is definitely a moral state

the population will not rise, and for the russians it is very important that people continue to, well, i don't know who to compare with, to even believe that the russians, well, what... crimea can be protected, that they are in danger, that these are just cases, alone, that something is flying there, well , it’s so easy for them, that’s how their propaganda works, to start telling them that there are bombers, that there are air alarms there that have to be activated every other day, well, people are worried there anyway, let’s say so, especially those who came from the russian federation, and in such situations, with such anxieties and... the constantly painted scoundrels, i think that a lot of people will start leaving crimea, the russians need russians to be there, for crimea to be russian, so it's easier for them to have dozens or hundreds die there people, than this propaganda that

everything is fine there and everything is under their control doesn't work, well, plus, the alarm is not all over the crimea, but they announce the alarm only in akyar, as they call it sevastopol and, in other... districts, corners of crimea, well, worries there is never, there was, there is no, even if you look at the fact that the armed forces of ukraine, well, are carrying out strikes in all corners of crimea, where russian military facilities are located, well, this is our legitimate goal, right, well, because it preparations are underway so that, maybe this year, maybe next year, we will already start the process of not preparing for the deoccupation, but the direct deoccupation of crimea, that's why everyone. well, the whole of crimea is under our, let's say, missile-wegen control, and our targets are a military object, lithuania's targets, our targets means of communication, our target radar stations, ports, of course, that's why this preparation for the liberation of crimea has been going on

for at least a year, and i'm sure that these strikes that we are making will only intensify, we have to destroy practically the entire military infrastructure of the russian armed forces. forces in the crimea, well, then, we understand, well , then, atakalu, it could be a landing, it could be, well, from different directions from the well, it could be at... khadovsk, armeniansk, it could be the same, well here, i think that in ours to the general staff, well, i don’t think so, i’m sure, there are already plans, but only right now, well, they can’t be applied yet, because you have to focus on those attacks that the russians are making to the east, the russians on the eastern and northern fronts, huh, but regarding crimea and the southern direction in general, there are forecasts that in september, maybe in october , we will be able to intercept a tactical initiative in these directions. well, let's see, there will be more, another message from the crimea this

week was that the space communication center was destroyed crimea, what is the importance of this cotton, why are these targets of space communication so important that we choose them among others, as you rightly say, the missiles we shoot with are not cheap, and for any small targets we we can't exchange them, so what? most likely, this is a ground base that has direct contact with golnas, that is, it is navigation, it is the navigation of russian missiles, missiles are guided by these means, airspace is explored by these means, russian planes are controlled, including guided, this is not the the communication that we have, maybe it seems to someone that something like a mobile communication is simply left there without... mobile phones, no, this is a system, this is a system, how our missiles work using gps

navigation, in russia, the glanas system, they, this is also a satellite system, they use, and this, it is used for missile guidance, let's say, aircraft missile guidance. thank you very much, mr. oleksii, choksagalno, for finding the time and joining our broadcast, oleksii getsman, a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war, was in direct contact with us. retired major of the national guard. and let me remind you that you are watching the bereber together program in ukrainian, which is hosted by us, andriy yanitskyi and gulsum khalilova, and it is a joint project of espresso and the atr tv channel. now we have a short break, after which we will talk about other topics. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already come to the snake itself. the following shots may shock you. live events, kamikaze drone attacks, political analysis, objective and meaningful,

there is no political season, exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest spots the front, speak frankly and impartially, you draw your own conclusions, take the wounded from the battlefield in time... this means saving his life, bc ride, boys ride, atv is the way from zero to our life. at this stage of the war, the atv is the best solution for evacuating the wounded from scratch. we invite everyone to join nato in gathering from zero to life on atvs for the 93rd brigade of kholodny yara in the direction of chasiv yar. selyam aleikum kherla kunler, congratulations, we continue our joint

broadcast of the first crimean tatar tv channel i, gulsom khalilova, and my colleague andriy yanitskyi work together in the studio for you of atr and tv channel, beraber program. and we would like to introduce our guest, this is yevhen khlobestov, professor, dean of the faculty of natural sciences of the kyiv-mohyla academy, as well as the head of the track, head of the track. eco-economic and ecological expert network of the crimean platform. mr. yevgeny, congratulations. good day. good day. a military expert and i discussed everything that happened in crimea on june 23 and the attack by the armed forces of ukraine on to russian military facilities and about the shooting down of these rockets by russian air defense over the beach, over people, and we all saw all these videos and so on, after which the occupation, even the administration. they began to say that a lot of people canceled their trips to crimea and

even their tourist trips, these tourist operators began to say that people simply do not go to the sanatorium there, the camp, and so on. how does all this affect the tourist season in crimea, this year in particular, if you look at the latest attacks by the armed forces? it's just different reality. russians are in a different reality, there is no war for them. that's why they go to crimea, supposedly it's absolutely safe there. i want to... note that there was no air raid warning, by the way, that is, people were on the beach, they did not even know that there was a potential danger there, on the other hand, crimea is such a source of tourism today. only for russians, and this is such an artificial tourism, because russia very much dates these tourist services, there are free tickets, there are discount tickets of various kinds, that is, this is such an artificial reproduction of this function, i i hope that after the return of crimea to the state borders of ukraine, when we already develop the economy there and, in particular

, recreation, we will first of all face a security problem, that is, how safe it will be to rest there, the second problem... is the quality of services, well, by that time, most likely , ukraine will be exhausted by the war, and we will not be able to invest in quality tourist facilities and services, so i am quite skeptical about this, as for me, crimea will remain, well, such a tourist region for many years to come for recreation mostly crimeans, and such a future tourist hub, then probably he will still remain in that region from the side of turkey and... heat, but probably not yet with ukraine, not for the first time, that is, if we are talking about tourism, then now, of course, we do not advise anyone to rest in the crimea, because it is a theater of hostilities, and after the liberation, it will probably be necessary to wait until it is safe there, that ’s right, and plus i understand that they are going to rest, well, the people of ephesus, and , families,

facebook users, or some representatives of russian administrations there and so on, which are under sanctions. and they simply cannot leave anywhere else, so recently the occupiers said that even there in akhyar , the daughter of the mayor of magadan or something like that, the deputy mayor of magadan, was injured there, well, that is , the thesbians are resting there, and here are all these people who simply cannot go to other countries. in my opinion, not only the people of thessaly rest there, there are also a huge number of russians who are in their own reality, they are in their own information bubble, there is no war in this bubble, and that is why crimea is the way it is... soviet nostalgia, resort, recreation, our crimea, finally they can go there, although no one forbade them to go there until the 14th year, that is, even in 10 years they did not find out what was really happening, so this information curtain was created in of russia, that people who, as far as i understand, live in the north of russia,

and are not very interested in what is happening in the european part, they... imagine that everything is fine, there are no hostilities, missiles are not flying, and they do not expect this , not only is everything good, people are buying real estate in the cream, from siberia, for example, from the northern regions of russia, they sell there, they buy in crimea, they are sure that this is their home forever, that there will never be any changes, and then they come, recently this topic has intensified, when the russian occupiers are so on. .. they are nationalizing the homes of even ukrainian people’s deputies, ukrainian singers, recently dzhemala’s house was nationalized, and others, for example, our singer sofi rataru and so on, and what the occupiers say, they nationalize it all, put it up for auction , sell and so on, the colonizers buy it again and so on, and

they plan to send it all to the war against ukraine, how to evaluate it? this pseudo -nationalization of the russian occupiers, does it have any legal meaning and so on, what are we going to do about it and can we draw parallels, for example, with 1944, when all the crimean tatars were deported, the nkbdshniks came again, and then the children of the nkvdshniks , and in 2014 they simply burned ukrainian passports and shouted there crimea with russia forever, this question is deep, well , because first of all, eh... if we talk about the economic profit from such entanglements is minimal, against the background of the cost of the war, to say that it somehow helps russia fight more effectively against ukraine, probably not, it is an informational excuse. russia is trying to show russians, crimeans and other russians that we have dealt with a potential

fifth column of pro-ukrainian elements, and their real estate has gone to the needs of the svo. yes, well, but really, to say that this has any effect on the situation in crimea now, does it affect our attitude, does it have any legal consequences, unfortunately, no, russia does not recognizes a huge number of international judges, that is, and even i gave such examples, russia is part of the signatory of numerous law enforcement conventions, but if it does not fulfill these conventions, it simply does not fulfill them, without even explaining why it does so, well.. i don't do it because there is no compulsion. the world is largely built on contracts that do not provide for the enforcement of these contracts. and among the vast majority of civilized people. the signatories of such agreements do not even have the idea that something can be done so brazenly fulfill, don't explain your position, well , i don't want to, that is, if you have already made

a commitment and your parliament there ratified this agreement, that is, after hitler , no one imagined that a new hitler could appear, who could simply to disobey all international norms and so on, absolutely, and this is still the wonder of our partners in the european union and in the countries of... they are always trying to present some kind of problem with russia that should be submitted to some international body, something to try to do with it, some kind of relationship with 'find out through legal authorities, but this simply does not happen. please, may i have one question, and then, just we, when we talked about international conventions there courts and so on, you know, i will remind our viewers that recently the european court of human rights recognized the obvious, and they finally. another 10 years later, after ukraine submitted to the european court of human rights all the crimes of the russian occupiers, which they committed there, yes, russia violated 11

articles out of 18 possible regarding human rights, and there is already a court decision, and russia there won't be him perform, i understand, and then, does it make sense then, well, making such decisions and so on, what does it mean for us then, for us it means... our movement in the system of international law, we, as a state, are part of the world community, which fulfills international obligations, supports this general movement towards legal issues in relation to our problems and in relation to the russian federation, but there is again no coercive mechanism to force russia to comply with any international treaties. well, by the way, the second world war is really a very good example, when, well, what contracts germany fulfilled, or adhered to, none, and as a result, this is a new page in the history of europe. with russia , the situation is more complicated, because

today i do not see even in the ideas of a victory for us and our allies, conventionally speaking, a parade in moscow, and a change in the political system in russia. we do not set this as a goal, which means, unfortunately, that russia will continue to be in a state of hostility towards ukraine. and that is why, in my speech at the recent forum of the expert network, i emphasized that we should think about the formation of such frontier economy. unfortunately, modern russia leaves us no chance but to be ready for further unfriendly actions. i actually also wanted to mention the ecthr, but besides, the latest news that was just spread by the media yesterday or the day before yesterday, which. sounded on the forum of the expert network of the crimean platform, but you didn't say about the situation around hersenez, you probably heard, and some

media interpreted that hersenez was destroyed in general, well, that's not exactly how it sounded, damage was caused, and damage was caused by large-scale construction near khersenes, what will we see when we liberate crimea, will the museum still remain, what will we do... with these illegal buildings, because the illegal building, which is called the kerch bridge, will of course be destroyed, but all these the buildings that the occupiers will build and have already built during these 10 years, what will happen to them, what will happen to the people who work there, what will happen to the people who live there, the residential buildings are also built, how will we act in relation to the russians who came to crimea and about everyone. of these infrastructural changes, it really a very thorough question, because according to various estimates, from 150 to

more than 1 million russians entered crimea there, these are people who had no right to cross the borders of ukraine and stay in crimea, settle, occupy real estate, and so on. of course, the crimea was filled with real estate, and the taurid track, and other objects. and in the future, of course, ukraine will not have them. well, i can't imagine that our government makes a decision to blow up such a number of residential buildings there, i think that we have someone to place in crimea in these buildings, in there are many of us who went through the war and are still fighting and protecting our present, and therefore i think that this real estate should be distributed already through some state programs, to whom it will be confiscated and in principle yes, in principle distributed, as for these people, there is a situation. obvious, because some of them, well, 100% have to leave the territory of ukraine, ugh, but there are people who came there as teenagers, who

became adults, who created... their own families, when, relatively speaking, part of the family has a passport a citizen of ukraine, some not has this passport, they can already have their own children during this time, so this issue is not mechanistic, that is , a certain policy must be formed there, how to treat these people, how to deport them, or encourage them to return to the territory of the russian federation , the only thing we have to understand is that if we are for... this million, relatively speaking, new crimeans in crimea, we will never see either ukrainian or crimean-tatar crimea. and the recipe that was used in the baltic countries with gray passports, whether it works or not no, what does the experience of this country show? in fact, this experience cannot be used mechanistically, because despite the fact that even in such a small country as latvia, almost half of the population was so-called

russian-speaking. i.e. not the indigenous population, some of these people after integration into the european union became absolutely loyal citizens of these states, learned the appropriate language, received citizenship and are working today, but a huge number of people for various reasons, including some, you know, soviet principles, they remain people with limited rights, and today this is also a certain challenge, a certain problem for these small regions. well, that is, they cannot go to the elections there, elect someone there , and even go to public positions, they live like this, but they live there, well, but they live there, and this, by the way, was a requirement of the european union, that is, that there should be no forced deportation of these people , a certain part of these people do not have passports of the countries in which they live, but they are there and form a certain, well, political environment, and emotional environment, and well

that is... really these are people, if they do not adapt to the state policy, to the state formation of this state where they are, they automatically become the so -called fifth column, that is, they are a certain danger for the future of this state, the same situation will be , but it is still an element of instability, even if and even if people are part of society, but have not changed their views, we know the story with latvia that... the deputy from latvia, tetiana zhdanok, turned out to be an fsb agent, her they chose precisely these russian speakers, that is, she represented their interests in the european parliament, given the fact that ukraine is going to become part of the european union, and we will also have deputies, people who are not loyal to ukraine, but live on its territory, can once again delegate someone to the european parliament and to actually influence all european politics in general is such a no

-trojan. in fact, which is introduced into the body of ukraine, that is, this problem is deeper than it seems, it seems to me, it is deeper, and you also have a solution, unequivocally, it is deeper, well, today at the level of an expert network crimean platform, we discussed that after deoccupation, crimea should be deprived of the right to elect its representatives to electoral authorities, that is, to the ukrainian parliament or to local elections, for five, or better, for 10 years, so historic. yes, and then the political situation, the political struggle, and in particular the members of the european parliament, will be formed, if by that time we will already be part of the european union, but this problem remains the military administration , so it will be military-civilian, first military, then military-civilian administration, well, then we will move on to traditional forms of governance, there should be cultural and educational programs that bring

the ukrainian context to information science. and as far as i understand, the administrative reform must take place, because despite the fact that the heads of the military administrations are still appointed, it is still necessary to build a decentralized system of self-government such as that which operates in the free territories of ukraine, and do you understand final construction, sevastopol akyar will be part of a separate administrator. will be part of the crimean peninsula, there are various scenarios that are being discussed, it will definitely be part of the crimean peninsula, i would very much like it to be okyar, and not sevastopol, secondly, we need a political solution and a constitutional the decision, in my opinion, to deprive sevastopol as a ravine of its special status, that is, it should be the same city as all cities in ukraine, moreover, taking into account a certain political component,

which today we see in sevastopol, as i...