already heterogeneous, variegated, it is not easy to make a weather forecast now, so let's carefully and together monitor any changes and updated weather forecasts on the espresso channel. good evening, we are from ukraine. thank you, dear natalka didenko, we continue. and this is within the framework of the verdict program, i will be with you for the next hour, but we will not collect now, i just want to thank you, we were able to collect, well, almost 622, i hope that by tomorrow we will close this collection with your direct help and well, or you can just search there on the espresso website rewind youtube to see a little where there is a link to the bank and send it, and we will talk for the next hour with several guests on different. topics, but now i will invite

oleksandr gushchenko, an expert in digital technologies, to the conversation, this will actually be a very important conversation, mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, i congratulate you, good evening, good evening, why did i decide to talk about this topic, and here are my colleagues invited you to a conversation, and the verkhovna rada of ukraine invited the minister of digital transformation to a conversation, and in order to talk about a possible drain of data from the application or hacking of a possible action committed there by a certain person from the russian federation from the country of the aggressor. so far, it seems that this meeting in the verkhovna rada has not taken place. let's do it, if the verkhovna rada, the specialized committee, the relevant committee of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, which is responsible for these digital technologies, security, and so on, invites to a conversation. a member of the government obviously has reasons to

talk about it and it is possible to talk in private, what is your opinion on this matter, are there grounds, let's start like this, are there grounds even at the level of the verkhovna rada, at the level of the government, to talk about a possible data leak or hacking of the application, let's start from the very beginning, that there is a precedent from the american femida, and the american femida is just that ... the impetus for this conversation, what they will talk about, you and i do not know, is the fact that the russian federation, i would like to say it differently, but let it be the russian federation, has been waging a cyber war against ukraine since 2014, since 2014 attacks on ukrainian infrastructure, so-called the cyberberkut group carried out attacks where...

some of them were even successful, and starting in 2022, these attacks became regular, daily, some of them were massive, some of them were successful, russian hackers are in pursuit, fighting against ukraine on the cyber front the last 10 years, and the conversation should start with the fact that to what extent is ukraine... ready for these challenges, how well is ukraine defending itself, and if a cyber incident occurs, do we have an action plan to protect our data and create conditions for which russian hackers in i'm sorry, but it's the intelligence hackers, the fsb, who are fighting against ukraine, all their actions will not end

in success, well, here i am again, here's the latest news about the alleged data leak . , and here you know what is important to understand, because action is the data of millions of people, my data, i think, your data, there are such characters, i know for sure... that there are those who did not download the action application, did not register there, i don't know, maybe they don't have cell phones like stephen king. somehow live outside the world, well, different people, there are people who sit in bunkers, well, in reality there in certain countries and believe that there will be an alien invasion, there are different people, again, but millions of people, ukrainians, have their data in action, plus there is the data of military personnel, most importantly,

the rank-and-file sirs, and this, and this is a problem, here is the issue, the issue of security in the future, i don’t know how this story ends, we may come back to it again, about reports , about... conversations about whether there really was such a downpour or not, but we need the perspective of protection to develop some new protection systems ourselves, to constantly update them, and how to act, or to involve our partners, because i, i'm sorry, it's just a little long question, but i want to remind you that when there was a hack, remember the mobile network, it was about then in my opinion , about kyivstar, if in 203, and then experts from foreign companies very actively joined in, who very quickly... tried to put it in order, but it was real help from serious specialists from international companies that were engaged in telecommunications, that is now how to act, constant updates, constant upgrades, invent something new and how intense this war is in cyberspace, it's intense, because we

can't see it, but we understand that it 's going on, we can feel it, you have no idea how intense it is , i.e. 24x7, ukraine is currently a training ground, the first world cyber war is currently taking place, and unfortunately ukraine is the very site where all the cyber armies of the world will test their strength, all the experts who want to test, test their strength, and ukraine , if help is needed, then we have the right to ask our western partners for help regarding the action, the action is essentially a portal that has access to other bases, that is, such a transit, relatively speaking, a server that pulls up certain data from different bases, so i want to remind you that in ukraine for the last 20 years there was a quite popular phenomenon when you could buy any base inexpensively, there is

social engineering, there is human greed and not necessarily any specific bases from some or the ministry or some department or break some company. just someone could take them out on a conditional flash drive, download them somewhere or sell them, and first of all, the task of all kinds of cyber specialists who have gone to the dark side is to study, engage in social engineering, and only then it is possible to break whether it has been broken action, whether there was a leak from it, you and i will find out after all the meetings of everyone. conversations, but considering the fact that cyber warfare is ongoing, ongoing 24x7, with varying degrees of success, er, i can say that there is always a need for updates, there is always a need to be several steps ahead, because in

this high-tech industry , the enemy always uses different kinds of implementations, different kinds. know-how and some of them, unfortunately, relatively speaking, there are unknown to the general public of specialists, they need to be studied, well, that’s about this story, i just maybe some viewers, i started, as they say, from scratch er, and maybe some viewers don't know what we're talking about, but it became known that a 22-year-old russian, a native of the chechen republic, and min stigal was maybe to be involved in an attack on ukrainian government websites at night, that is... from january 13 to 14 , 2022, well, including that, it was about various data, so the data of 13.5 million ukrainians after the alleged hacking of the action portal were allegedly posted for sale on the internet, and that's why the people's deputies decided to invite the minister of the ministry of statistics, yes

, mr. fedorov for a conversation to clarify this story, and you know, when i read this story about this 22-year-old native. the chechen republic, which, i thought to myself, really exists such geniuses, digital hackers, but isn't this conditional person, this amin stigal, just a screen behind which completely different people can stand, or can there really be such a specialist who once broke all the sites, took 13 million data on he sells 13 million citizens. the internet, well, as you can see, there is anonymity in the network, there is no internet, if we exclude some, as you say, genius from russia who broke something, then there is information that ukrainian cyber security specialists, and specialists

of our partners, and representatives of companies that engaged in cyber defense have long counted russian hackers in uniform, about some of them... everything is known, where they live, where they eat, where they sleep, where they spend the night, with whom they spend the night, in which departments they receive their salaries. everything can be calculated, i don’t think that this is a screen, because specialists, so they say, have calculated and know their opponents for a long time, each of these groups, which belong either to russian intelligence or to the fsb, has its own handwriting, has its own peculiarities in depending on the hack that happened or was attempted with... to do, the specialists are studying exactly with the help of which tools this happened,

and they already know for sure who from the dark side tried to get to this or that server, to this or that database, i want to remind you that cyber war is happening 24/7 , and of course that we are on the side of good, but behind the russian state hackers is precisely... the power of russia, the power in the plan that russia spends unlimited money on this war, as it were, encourages many hackers to work for the state, maybe they found green tea in someone there wrapped in newspaper selska zhizn, and he is now forced to use his knowledge against humanity, because the evil empire has ordered the hanging. on the hook and uses it, but remember there was

a story when, at the beginning of a full-scale invasion, the hacker anonymous group started, in fact, declared a hacker war against the russian federation, i don't know now about the course of these battles, but it was obviously certain, there was a certain success, and again , i will not ask whether now anonymous is working there in the interests of ukraine or not, they are working, thank god, they don't work, we... anonymous is a screen invented by hollywood and special services, we all know that if the information, relatively speaking, is obtained there in a not very legal way, it cannot be used, and if it is obtained somewhere by someone anonymous or by some other name, uploaded somewhere, you can download it to look at it, then you can use it later in the chain and say, well, we took it there, that's why in the majority. cases , it is a screen for the special services of different countries and

an opportunity for various hacker groups just to do some white or dark things under the cover of anonymity. well, there are also huckwiser xbox underground groups, there are different groups, i wanted to talk briefly about that, we see the successes of the ukrainians. tsiv, we see there some correspondence, and official correspondence, for example, related to dmitry medvedev, there was tracked for quite a long time with his subordinates, which was by the way a big surprise for them, the surnames and places of residence of certain pilots who caused strikes on the territory of ukraine, we did not do much else we know, but i understand that ukraine is also now among the leaders, well, in fact , being in good shape every day, because we can't be in good shape, that's all. we effectively employ specialists who are either in the defense forces or in

certain positions, and to what extent we attract, well, again, without naming names, sums and so on, but if necessary, do we also have the opportunity to attract specialists to perform spot checks works, engages, executes, wins, but unlike ukraine , the evil empire never admits that it happened... or another cyber incident, they are simply silent, yandex was angry, they are silent, sberbank was angry, they are silent, rzhd was hacked, they are silent, they are silent, they are simply in such a mode of silence, and they do not react in any way, they do not comment in any way so that the local the swamp population did not pay attention to this, i will ask here, now we have a few minutes left there. a few such questions are very practical, should ukrainians be concerned now that their data can

be sold, what could this again threaten, but relatively speaking, i know my data in action, well, there is something like that, well , again, who is interested in them, depending, there is nothing like that, but i would not like my data to be traded, of course in action, for example, i do not know if it is yes or no, but maybe, let's not cling to the word action, let's talk concretely. about some data, so i want to say that no one merges their personal data so vividly and so smartly as users, that is, a user is a simple user... on the internet, it is this, this weak chain, with the help of which all the data is simply pouring out, users themselves pour out everything they can, download it themselves, click on various links, visit various errors, let's just state the fact, in ukraine there is a big problem with information and cyber hygiene among ordinary users,

it is huge, and this is an established fact, if you go to facebook or go to another one there. social network, if you read the comments, you will see that trash is just happening, users complain that there is now an attack using phishing links, telegram accounts are hijacked, hijacked facebook pages, you just need to understand that there is basic hygiene, information, cyber hygiene, and you need to use it, and only from us in the first place. it depends on how protected our personal data is and how difficult it will be for some cybercriminals to gain access to it or to compile this data, you know about the protection of my data, let's say the meta company , obviously this is still the problem of the meta company and will it be able to, well, i understand that you can always

steal the question only in whether there is such an expediency to steal my my page in facebook for example. i deleted telegram a week ago, i deleted it several times before that, and then i decided that i don't need it after all, well, if you want, i'll tell you a secret, why criminals need your facebook page, everything is very simple, first, you can send a newsletter to your friends, ask them for money, this is the most primitive way, and secondly, if you have an old account, you can attach an advertising one to it. and open some advertisement, receiving a certain credit there from the target company. they used to do it in general, great promotions, when they created a bot farm, they took 1000 accounts, for each account the meta company provided a conditional loan of 50 dollars, so you have 100 bots, you have a total credit line of 50,000 dollars,

you take this 50,000 from the client, honestly untwist the ad. and then you forget about these bots, you earned, relatively speaking, taking into account the cost to yourself of 40, the target company received minus 50 dollars of the dead money, because of this, you must understand that in most cases these personal data, access to them, your accounts, this is all sharpened on the fact that criminals received some material benefit, if there is no material benefit, if you see or record that some, some anomalous actions are taking place, no longer about personal data, your personal, but about some databases, then most likely hackers are working in uniform, and there is already another advantage, yes, to hack, erase, encrypt, break, cause

some trouble, especially this concerns the infrastructure involved in... energy systems, some large enterprises, you know, here i am at the very end, well, first of all, we are now all obliged to provide our data, because i don't always have the opportunity and time to go to the shops, i have to buy something, pay a handyman, do some repairs, whatever, well , i don't have time to run around the shops, choose discounts, if i need something, i rarely need anything, but it happens, and you still give all your data to one or another company where you order, or... a t-shirt or a shower faucet or something else and you also become a hostage, because you can't do otherwise, you won't have access to the service, on the other hand, then they call you, i don't i can hear this voice, i have already blocked 10 numbers, and congratulations, you have not visited our site for a long time, we want to inform you that there is a gaming company out there, i am just blocking another number, but this is just an example of how you transfer your data. well, because you

want to buy something, and then you have banal, banal hygiene, if you want to pay somewhere on the internet, you can... buy a special number, let's call it, relatively speaking, a financial number, which you will use for activation, create a virtual card in the same bank there green color, where you will throw your funds, which you will enter in the network, create a separate email for various kinds of registrations, and you are 50% already protected, because if they even get access there, then there , in addition to the fact that there are some the funds you transferred from the main card to the virtual card, there is nothing special to take, but criminals do not stand still, but you talk about telephone spam, when they call you, it is not necessary that they simply stole this database, yes, it is not necessary that they bought it, because we we know, if we take the chronology, taxi drivers’ databases and databases of other

different sites used to be merged, they were simply taken out on flash drives and sold, in the market of petrivka, i once made a story as a journalist for one of the tv channels even earlier, there you could buy a data base, there what you can do anything, no one broke it, they took it out themselves, they sold it themselves, because there was no responsibility, hackers. in most cases nothing is broken, you just need to study the topic, make a compilation, collect data, and after that, maybe you will have enough data for to move to some next level there, therefore, first of all, you need to think about your own cybergenia, and in principle , my cybergenia begins with me, no one but me will protect me in the first place, this is an axiom, and no one will protect you except you cause of telephone spam. you didn't notice that before these scammers call you, who offer you to play some games there inexpensively, you simply receive a cold call,

you pick up the phone, and nothing happens, they just hang up and 10 minutes later a robot calls and says: oh, take part in some of our fancy spending promotions there, this happened several times, by the way, and you are right, this is a cold call, but i... they did not buy this base, they just dialed it they dial, record that the number answered, that it is live and that they already offer some services. in principle, the state can and has all the tools to fight this. the question is about the state as a service, let's change the rules so that the phone cannot be distributed from every number, from any number. spam, to be responsible for this, absolutely, that there will be a lot more fraud, and now it is, circumstances change, and there will be a lot more, the only thing we have to

understand is that we are still in the matrix, well, from time to time you have to either get out of it, or really take care of your hygiene, i don’t have time, and i won’t now, of course i would like to talk more about the security of such a system as reserve plus, but i understand how sensitive this issue is, how much of a topic it is , which the experts now have for the safety of these military personnel, because there are more than 3 million people have updated their data, so i hope that there are people working there who will really be able to do their best, we can simply ask the state a question: dear state, as a service, please pay attention to the fact that the data of ukrainians is the object of cyber attacks and interest from hackers country of the terrorist, because of this , please pay attention and protect. as best as possible. thank you very much for joining, thank you for your comments. oleksandr hlushchenko was with us, an expert in digital technologies. you know why it's important, like, well, there

the reserve plus system, in particular, i don't know if the enemy would want to attack, maybe he won't be able to attack. i don't know, i don't want to develop this topic because i don't know anything about it. but it's banal, there are data on conditionally privates, there are officers who have such a specialty, they are not very rare. exists, and there are data of people who have a really very important, important profession, experience, and why shouldn't someone find data on a person who, let's say, has some such as a scalpel for the army, she can do some such autopsies, which are not no one will do it, and the data of this military man is, let’s say, in the reserve plus, so of course, on a conditional private, on me, perhaps, who has a specialty there that many people have, no one would particularly attack, but here it is necessary to protect, because it can be the data of really... artificial, as they say, specialists, which the enemy can really hunt for, so here it is. volodymyr ogrysko is a diplomat, ex-minister of foreign affairs of ukraine with us. mr.

volodymyr, glad to see and hear from you. i congratulate you, mr. vasyl, unfortunately i can't see you i see you in the photo, that's why i say i'm glad to see you, at least in the photo, it's clear, well, next time, i hope it will be better. well, we are all in the circumstances we are in. technical and so on, so we understand that we are using the opportunities that are currently available, and i will not delay you for a very long time, but i would first like you to give me an answer to the following question: volodymyr zelenskyi made a horse move, as they say, and went into a counterattack, and he did it correctly in principle, as volodymyr tsybulko did today expressed such an opinion, he offered donald trump as a candidate for the presidency of the united states of america. and to publish a plan for a quick end to the war, and how should trump react and how would you rate this call by the president of ukraine, by the way, this is not the first time he has said,

well, tell me how? well, finally he says: let’s give a plan, what to pull, let’s talk about this plan, the election is already for well , that’s it, mr. vasiliy, i think that this is a very correct thesis, and trump, instead of general talk about what he has i should have a plan to really demonstrate it, but there is another side of the coin, you know, we have to put, and do we have a plan, well , the answer to that is sort of, sort of. on the basis of this plan, we are forming the first summit there, then the second one will be read and so on, but for now, well, i would say that it is a conceptual plan, it is a plan that talks about directions, but does not talk about tactics, without these tactics it is also a little bit, in my opinion, the warehouse consists of such...

generalists, what is, what is energy security, well, let's write it down points, what is food security, let's write it first, second, third, 15, 25, and what is the key topic, the restoration of territorial integrity, well, let's write that this is the exit to the borders of 1991, this is the expulsion of russian punk from ukrainian land , what is needed for this, this needs such and such help. for in order for us to get it we must get from the americans so much, from the germans so much, from the french and so on per spear, then that is the plan, and then we can say, dear friends, in the end, when we have finally agreed on this plan with you and it has become a real, real signpost to our victory, let it be carried out, and then we will be on our own. to demonstrate

concreteness and to demonstrate the same concreteness to our western partners, because you understand, when we talk about the victory of ukraine and compare it with the same thing that is said in the west, it seems that everyone is for victory, but everyone has their own victory, so here we are it is necessary to finally create a common denominator of this victory, to agree with our ukrainian society in the first place, and to pontificate it to our western partners is suitable. we work, it doesn’t fit, we clarify, but then there is a subject for conversation, and otherwise these are general beautiful formulas that we hear for more than one month, if not no no no no more, and which are to no one, no nothing, nothing to nothing, no one they don't oblige me to do anything, because these are generalists, you know, i'm definitely not a zradophile and i don't plan to be one, at least in

good conscience. as they say, and when i control myself, but you know, here is the plan, if there is even such a plan, conditionally speaking, of course, it should not be made public and placed in the mass media, if it is really a plan that will force russia to make concessions, or there, well, so that ukraine achieves the desired, as much as possible under those conditions, yes, if such a plan really exists, or is being developed , on the other hand, it was said in ukraine that the counter plan. the offensive of the 20th of the 22nd year and the summer one was on the table no on the 23rd of the 23rd year of the 23rd of the 23rd year and on the 22nd there was another story was on the table in the kremlin even before i began to implement it i'm leading that that if the united states of america companies , trump's team are people who are specialists in the preparation of certain plans and their implementation, well

, the question here is that it is possible for them to trust. to president zelensky, i am ready to talk about it, but they will ask questions: wait, friends, how did it happen that your counteroffensive plan was on the table in the kremlin, and if we announce this plan, if it even exists, where is the guarantee that there is no someone, it is not known who, who may also later end up with this plan in the kremlin, again, this is not adultery, it real facts, if they are reduced to a heap, then such a question may arise in people, if it is really possible for donald trump, maybe it is not him himself sitting there in the evening writing, but ... maybe they are developing a script for him, i will not say a plan, a scenario is possible, please , you know, mr. vasiliy, i think that exactly what i am talking about does not need to be secret, on the contrary, on the contrary, we should tell ourselves what we mean by our victory plan and say about it our event