every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club. every saturday at espresso. the verkhovna rada regularly passes new laws, but how do these changes affect our lives? we analyzed the new decrees to inform you about the latest changes in ukrainian legislation. as legislative norms change our lives, what to prepare for. leading lawyers of the aktum bar association will answer these and other questions that concern ukrainians. see that tuesday at 7:55 in the legal examination program on the espresso tv channel.

vasyl winter's big broadcast. two hours of airtime, two hours of your time. two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives. two hours to keep up with economic and sports news. two hours in the company of our favorite presenters, presenters who have become familiar to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. events of the day in two hours. big ether vasyl. for the winter, a project for smart and caring evenings with espresso. once again good health ladies and gentlemen, mykola veresen is with you, and now dmytro tuzhanskyi, director of the institute of central and eastern european strategy and an expert on ukrainian-hungarian relations, will appear. good health, mr. dmytro, let's somehow solve such newton's binomial together with you. such

comrade orban went to the city of kyiv, talked with zelenskyi, then went to moscow, talked with putin, and then said, oh, it’s very, very difficult to come to an agreement, it’s impossible, i ’m sitting there thinking, well, exactly like newton, i would be able to tell him without leaving the capital of ukraine, what he’s pretending to do some such complexity, he went like this, made some conclusions in ki. it is extremely difficult to come to an agreement, if not impossible, absolutely, i sit, i think, the whole world knows, alas, that it is impossible, and just take what russia wants, take what ukraine offers, stand next to it and there is no need to go to kyiv and moscow , well, you can go to kyiv to come, we have our interstate problems there, but those are interstate in the military sense, well, it's kind of absurd, it's just that he meant who he wanted to deceive, please, mr. dmitry. look, you

are explaining everything correctly, because the purpose of his visits was not about negotiations, not about finding peace or any way out, ending the war, which viktor orbán talked about, that is , his trip is a big performance, a big show, with the corresponding goals , orbán's number one goal is that he could not further delay his trip to ukraine, he was pressured for... zelenskyi is his partner, he invited him twice, he caught him there in brussels, in argentina, that is, well, orban seems like one, by the way, you have to look, maybe he is the last leader of the country, a member of the eu, who was not in kyiv, and this is an important gesture , an important gesture not only for zelensky, that it is necessary to come to kyiv and, conditionally speaking, to testify there to the territorial integrity, independence of ukraine, sovereignty, which viktor orban ultimately did, did not want to do, he wanted to

act ... how trump acts, how xi acts, yes, what avoid, ignore zelensky's invitation, that is, well, and even more so when you represent the country that presides over the eu, that is, here he has turned into a strong position, yes, the second moment, when you have on the agenda the creation of your political group, which viktor orbán announced on june 30, i.e. the day before he began to preside, that hungary began to preside over the eu council, the day before viktor orbán went to kyiv, then to moscow, actually, and what kind of group it is, we can they are right to say, but in fact, these are such populists these european trumpists, who are constantly looking for this third way, and the third way now, what exactly is it, what viktor orbán is saying is to immediately stop shooting arrows, this is seasfire and peace talks, what should they lead to, well, if only they are not particularly interested in this, they are not particularly interested in the fact that... by the 22nd year, ukraine had already

stopped 20 times, actually, that is, there was a ceasefire, and it was as if they had to agree on something, but we understand, again , well orban, he pretends that... he does not understand that russia does not need this termination fire and peace, and russia needs capitulation, yes, that is, he plays a role, and it was very important for orban to show that he is not pro-russian, that he is not an agent of the kremlin, that is why he went to kyiv first, and at the same time that he is not pro-ukrainian, as in the sense, like ursula funderlein, like the european people's party, like these key leaders of the european union, that he is an alternative, but he can negotiate, he can be a mediator, that is, they will be with him... those in kyiv and in moscow. here. and that's just what you need to collect these european populists. and not without luck, i’ll tell you, it’s not covered too much in the ukrainian media, but now there are spanish populists or right-wingers who broke away from melony,

join orbán, bilders joins orbán, they’re waiting for salvini, they’re waiting for elections in france and le pen, and look, like le pen, on the one hand, she condemns the fact that... they did not support her in the elections, on the other hand, she announced that she will be against the fact that french weapons were used on the territory of russia, that is, this is balancing, this trumpism, this the third way, and in principle, mr. dmytro, v in principle, if you and i were sitting in ecuador, for example, in the capital of ecuador, in the city of quito, ukraine is far away, russia is far away, america is far away, europe is far away, and we were looking for an answer to a question. who are you with , master of culture, who are you with, mr. orban, because when we, as ukrainians, we are in pain, we have a war, and we understand that we obviously need absolute support, the president of turkey is also criticized,

criticized everyone, although in reality the turks are such , he would not say that he is unequivocally, at least the straits, they closed the straits, orban the second time in moscow, and... the first time at putin's, the first time when he was in moscow, he came to gorbachev's funeral, as far as i remember, he did not even meet, that is, to say that the body, that orban just in embrace putin, to say that putin can order him, to say, no, you do as i tell you, in short, orban is definitely not lukashenko, and so on and so on, and i would just like to ask you, who is he, he, he... really, in the first place for him is simply hungary, simply the magyars, and it is important for him too, he does not care about everything else, that is, he not a european, it is a hungarian, or what can be the answer to this question, please look, it is very easy for ukrainians to understand orbán's behavior in general, his

political guts now, because he is the ukrainian elites until the 14th year, remember how our elites, who went where, with whom they agreed on gas and... went, signed a new gas contract, you all mean that these will be some other payments, and you can already claim to be the president or the prime minister, or vice versa, that is, this is the type of politicians, that type behavior when you think that you can be on an equal footing with the russians, that you can flirt with them, debate, negotiate, and you can agree on something with them, and they keep their promise, and it will be an equal agreement, in fact, no, that is. .. orbán plays this game, he balances, he tries to balance, but again, since the 10th year , his relationship with russia is an abusive relationship, it is a relationship of dependence, and the only thing that saves him is, by the way, to be honest, the whole of hungary should thank orbán, because it was he who

brought it into the eu and nato, and that is what saves it hungary from orbán himself, this is the kind of fuse that would not flirt if orbán did not agree on anything. with putin, there may be kompromat there, there is no dependence, but jenat saves hungary, well, from all that from russia, this is what did not save us after the fourth, the 14th year, the 22nd year, and what we we need to fix it, yes, we need to get closer to the eu and nato as soon as possible , ideally to join, this is what will save ukraine, how many bayonets can he have, but you say that there is something in the euro parliament. there are some moods, associations, disconnection, transitions, this is some kind of force that can have such an influence, or is it just, well , you know, you, you, i have one fly here, well, it's unpleasant for me, there will be two flies, well, i

won't stop from this program and i will not stop talking with dmytro tuzhanskyi, okay, yes, look, this is an important issue, and they look at it quite simplistically, they say, well, if he collects or'. this group, okay, maybe they will overtake in the number of deputies in malone, they will become the third, but they will remain in the opposition, which they will influence, but here it is necessary to understand european politics, because the key decisions. the final decisions are made by the european council, don't get confused here, where hungary currently chairs, hungary chairs the eu council, in the european council decisions are made by the leaders of the countries, if you look at who viktor orbán gathers in his group, he gathers or now heads of countries, yes, or, well, for example, the austrian freedom party, it will most likely win in september and possibly even form this government. has a good chance of returning to power, but let's see what happens with le pen, orban himself is the leader, that is, he

has the right to vote, and remember, he went out to drink coffee, yes, because he was asked, actually, and he is betting on the european council, where he can block and also block from, to be sure from sanction procedures, there according to the seventh article, where unanimity is needed, and to influence the key decisions to be adopted, the last issue, he does not risk. he annoys the united states, he annoys the europeans, well, it seems to me that somehow he has already gone for some conditional red lines, maybe they are still dotted, but it seems to me, well, this is not such a far-sighted policy, please look, you are right, he has already crossed a lot of red lines, but he has been doing it for 14 years without a break, and you see, he has everything gets away with it, he has to negotiate, balance, governments somewhere... change, now he has high hopes for the return of trump, and i will tell you, if trump returns

to the white house, we can expect much more outrageous actions from viktor orbán than these visits to moscow and all this strife that he screwed up in the first days of hungary's presidency in the european union, but then he will still win the next election, but if he behaves like this, will the magyars decide that hey, yes, we are... so far from the eu and nato, we don’t want to leave, well he, again, he is balancing, yes, that is, he is a talented politician, now really, after the local and european parliament elections in hungary, his position has shaken, there, you say magyars, but there peter magyar appeared, who scored very well, moreover, now in hungary there are problems with money, they have a record budget deficit, but look, orbán is a person, he is not just an adventurer, he is an adventurer who plans, who... feels the moment, he understands the summer, the elections have passed, hungarians have gone on vacation, the next two months nobody will not

mention the budget deficit, no one will mention the dubious election results, that is, he has time now to deal with the same things that he is doing with this spectacle with the language with the russians, in the fall we will see what happens, and then one-two-three months and there will be a question, whether trump will return or not, then there will be another correction, because the new european commission will start working somewhere from november-december, that is , he knows, very well... feels the moment, plans very well, and takes risks, it is dangerous, you know, smart people are dangerous for ukraine , is always dangerous for a just cause, if he were stupid, and if he is such an actor, such and such and such has some plans, predictions, this is definitely an unpleasant story, but besides idiots there are, you know, intelligent enemies, there is nothing you can do about it, thank you very much. so sir dmytro tuzhanskyi, director of the institute of central and eastern european strategy,

an expert on ukrainian-hungarian relations, we will definitely talk to mr. dmytro, because he is quite, well, somehow, explains as it should be to people who want to know more, such like, for example, i, advertising, nebge reisenberg, our old acquaintance, a university professor, let's talk, obviously, about america, about trump, about biden, in short, i have something to talk about, but it will all be only after advertising. thinking about a new mattress, but here's what's stopping you. or were you thinking about something to drink? old mattresses accumulate not only dust, but also moisture that a person releases during sleep. a new mattress pad or bed linen can only improve the mattress aesthetically. choose a camel orthopedic mattress and yours. sleep will become noticeably better! take advantage of the super offer for half the price, call

now and order a camel orthopedic mattress. instead of paying the full price of the mattress, pay only half. due to the fact that our production is located in ukraine, we will be able to quickly manufacture the mattress and deliver it its straight to you. we perfectly combine innovative technologies and modern ecological materials. dial the number you see below. screen and our consultants will help you choose the right size for your bed. together with the mattress, you will receive a 5-year warranty and 100 nights of excellent sleep. you will no longer be sad. when we will reveal all the secrets and advantages of this mattress: firstly, it is springless, secondly, the use of airfoam orthopedic filler in the mattress contributes to the correct position and relaxation under sleep time thirdly, one side of the cover contains camel wool. the fourth advantage of the camel mattress is the 3d mesh that runs along all sides of the mattress. due to its

structure, similar to a honeycomb, it allows air to pass through well. you will receive a compact package. the mattress is in a protective film, it is easy to bring it through any door, place it even in a small elevator, and if there is no elevator without obstacles, you can lift it up the stairs, just put it on the bed, remove the protective film and the mattress takes its shape. just call now and order camel orthopedic mattress. instead of paying the full price of the mattress, pay only half. there are discounts that represent the only discounts on micropaws. 20% in the pharmacies of plantain bam and ochad there are discounts representing the only discounts on normaven 10% in the pharmacies of plantain bam and ochad there are discounts representing the only discounts on norwend express forte 10% in the pharmacies of plantain bam and ochad get closer to victory together with tssoa sbu, join one from

the best special forces of the country. we are expanding. and we announce the recruitment, we invite civilian specialists of various fields, experienced commanders will ensure your high-quality training and education, fill out the questionnaire and choose the direction where you can be most effective. we are waiting for you in the team of tssoa asbu. together we will write the history of victory. details on the official pages of the sbu. good health once again, you see, the flag

is facing backwards, it means that eisenberg, professor of the university, will appear now. in front of us and we will talk with them just in time, good health, mr. igor, thank you for finding time for us, good health, mr. mykola, good health to all viewers espresso. look, the first question is maybe, the main one, and maybe the only one, well, let’s see how it goes, well, they say whether biden will continue to go, whether he will be removed, whether he will be removed, whether something will happen, whether he can, or he can’t, it’s simple for me and the difficult question, one or the other? will defeat trump, because six months ago, a year ago, i read some analysis, and there it was just about a very strange moment that anyone except biden has no chance of defeating trump, and biden, whoever he is, has a chance and the american nation , well, it is divided in half, but there is already some kind of game here drama, if you put x, yz, then they

will definitely lose to trump, but today they will discuss. surname, possibility, impossibility, this moment, okay, we remove biden, bet x or y, and this y or x, what are the chances that he will win? look, a very specific system of presidential elections has come to an end, elections are held separately in each state, and in order to win the elections, you need to win in the so-called swing states, that is , states where there is no party. there is no permanent support from voters, that is, they fluctuate, once they can to vote for the republican candidate, the second time for the democratic candidate, and the one who wins in these few, just a few states of them from five, seven, no more, he will be the president, eh, and the fight should be for the votes

of voters precisely in these states, uh, and these states are specific, let's say, such states as the key ones, if you say who trump or biden can gather votes there, both can gather votes, or can another democratic candidate gather votes in these states, i don't know, it's not that this question was not studied at all, but i i think that votes, especially in the rivalry with trump, can be gathered there only by such a democratic candidate... who is moderate, who is not, who does not have any ideological shift to the left, who is such a classic centrist politician, well, excuse me, it's... not politically correct, i wish i was a christian, a man, i understand that i'm saying politically incorrect things,

especially regarding america, as a very multi-confessional, multi-ethnic country, but the fact is that it is necessary to win the votes of the majority from the working class white, here in these states, and the candidate who is able to do it will win. i'm not saying that there aren't any in the democratic party, there are other good politicians, but whether any of them can defeat trump, i don't just know, because such and such measurements of public opinion were simply not conducted, there was a hypothetical survey conducted throughout the country , which show that michelle obama, as a whole, can collect significantly more votes nationally than trump compared to any other democratic candidate. but michelle obama is not going to run for president, she is not a politician at all, she, she was first a pretty woman, well, yes, she

is a proven pretty woman, she was the first lady for eight years, but she stated, i'm sorry, mr. igor, but here, i'll tell you now , gretchen whitmer and gavin newsom, these are the kind of governors that they, they have something - do they have any chance or does he or she have? newson is a popular politician in california, at least he is elected by a very large majority, but he supports biden, he has repeatedly said over the last week that he... fully supports biden and he doesn't even entertain the idea that biden may be out of the election, and herton, she,

she's a very successful governor of michigan, well , we see her now on the screen, but she also publicly stated that she supports biden, that is, listen, well, i think this is pure speculation, maybe even some sarcastic one, that in general, sarcasm is prohibited in journalism, at least. in europe, well , something will happen publicly, i'm not saying what someone will die there or not, but someone gets sick, for example, the leader of the democrats, gets sick, and he is right in front of their eyes, and then everyone says, no, wait, wait, well , no, you can’t choose the sick, and then, how, as far as i understand, the mechanism is so wonderful, is there no algorithm? no, the mechanism is there in the sense that if the candidate who won the primaries, well, for example, biden, decided that he could not run, say, because of his health,

then he could refuse to run and release the delegates to the party convention , which have the obligation to vote for him, from simply giving them the freedom, that is, so that they could vote for whomever they wanted, and not for not for him. push this, whom they wanted, somehow some person should appear there, well, yes, and such people, you know, this one, in america there is actually such a campaign for the fact that biden withdrew from the elections, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is not true, children , it must be said, but this company is run by mass media, let's say the sineno tv channel joined it, most of the presenters of the msnbc tv channel joined it. there is, say, the new york newspaper the times, some leading journalists, say thomas friedman, david remnick, very well-known

journalists, there have been calls from democratic politicians for biden to withdraw from the election, well there are almost none, so far four members of the house of representatives, they have said that but they believe that it would be better for biden to give up his place to someone young and handsome, so, let's say, but everyone can still have their own. young and handsome, so it will be, if biden, let's say, withdraws from the election, then the struggle will be so short, but very fierce between many the young and the beautiful, and the supporters of the young and the beautiful, and i think it's just going to weaken the democratic party a lot, and it's going to lose the election because there's just no time, there's four months before the election, any new candidate will face, you know, the biggest...problem , he won't have the money to run a campaign, because a campaign is an extremely expensive thing, a huge country, you have to have headquarters in every state,

you need money. for television advertising all the time, money is needed for the organization campaign rallies and so on and so forth and any new candidate will have no money, biden can't hand over the money that he's raised, it's just that it's prohibited by law, okay, just for the audience, we just showed this gavin newsom to you knew in her face, madam and missie, my question now is about trump and what the publication hints at politics. this means giving putin a part of ukraine and banning it from joining nato. well, if this is true, then it turns out that we have to give up, just can the keys from i don't know, just send ukraine to the kremlin, putin will get them and that's all, well, because it's obvious that if we're not in nato, if we've given up territory, putin will also want to weaken our army, and

then. he will take ukraine with his bare hands, well , only with victims, and that's all, well, if there is no place here, there is a two-part answer to you, quite short, the first part, there was such an article in the political edition, but i would even refer to it to senator vance , who is trump's nominee and his main, so they say, his main candidate in vice presidents, he said the same thing in many of his interviews, that ukraine should give territory to russia. that it should be neutral, it should be in nato, and then there will be peace and everyone, everyone will be happy, i.e. this is the way it is, i.e. it is not that the newspaper published politics there with references to some sources, and not one the person who is in the closest circle of trump is the main candidate for vice president, senator vance, he says exactly the same word for word, and repeatedly, and the second part of the answer,

well, trump can think what he is talking about... agree with putin that he will force ukraine to do something. let's come back with you in november 13th. when putin thought that he had agreed with yanukovych that ukraine would not sign an association with the european union, but would join the dkb of this secret union, the ukrainian people did not agree with this. so trump may think that he and putin will agree on something there, but the ukrainian people may not agree with this. that's all here and there and that's it, but when, with all due respect to the ukrainian people, if the ukrainian people have nothing to shoot at to the russian soldiers, to the russian people, then we can simply lose quite quickly, and then on other terms it may be possible to start some kind of peace negotiations, already on minimally favorable terms for ukraine, what do you say? it's,

it's, unfortunately, because... the country certainly needs guns to have something to shoot, but i'm not sure that i'm not sure that if trump becomes president, and even though he will be this time surrounded by people different from the people that bin was surrounded by in his first term, when he was surrounded mostly republican such classic figures who have held him back very much, who have blocked many of his very such bad decisions, now. it will be, it will be other people, his loyalists, but that does not mean that the whole world will be, will look into trump's mouth and will look, of course, that they will have to take into account what is being done in the united states, well, but there are still countries that european countries cannot help but understand that they are in danger if ukraine is forced to capitulate in this war, ah, and...

and we can say, think, whatever so we can look at the fact that in europe too, say, in france , the far-right are winning, who have a different attitude to russia, to putin, and would certainly be happy to agree on something with him, we see that orban, one representative of the far right is going to moscow, but there are still other european countries, and i, i do not think that they will so easily agree to... put your hands up and agree with the fact that, oh well, let ukraine not there will be, there will be peace, that is, people have a memory of munich in 1938, it cannot but be, because if it no, but then we have to accept then that the world will simply disappear. thank you very much, sorry, mr. igor, eisenberg, a professor at new york university, was from...