in my opinion, the statement of volodymyr zelenskyi is ambiguous, because it seems to me that he did not talk about so and so before, can we talk about the fact that something is being said on the sidelines about the end of the war and something, something, something, we are not being agreed upon, well, you see , current or modern, the current ukrainian government, it is critically dependent on public opinion, they are guided by public sentiments, and if in society in ukrainian, first of all... in society, well, some still confidence in an immediate victory is slightly undermined, and all understand that the war is dragging on, there is fatigue and serious dissatisfaction, well , such a public demand is still being formed, well, let's finally end it somehow with something, the political one too, well, i don't know what to call their class, but the group is at least a ruling group without a negative shade now speaking, they they also try to communicate with serve.

to give signals to society that they are also working on it, that they are also holding peace summits, that they are ready for negotiations, there is no longer such a categorical position as there was in the past autumn, for example, but there is a problem here, it’s all public communications, these are public statements, politicians talk about them, voters hear them, evaluate them accordingly, perceive them, it ’s an effort to preserve, preserve... self-confidence and get engaged support, but of course, that somewhere behind the screen, behind the scenes, consultations, negotiations, exchange of ideas, all this happens, well, we can read it from the events, if we do not take into account such general, general phrases , beautiful phrases, clearly said in public, and read facts, events, steps... well

, at the swiss summit, president zelenskyi and his manager, the head of his office yarmak, told us in plain text that the next summit will be held before the end of the year, they want to hold it and that it should record the end of the war , this is all that everyone would like to hear good news, but i am critical of this, because i am critical from the point of view of the realism of the goal, i think that... russia, the russians are not interested in negotiations with ukraine generally as such. they started the war in ukraine with ukraine not without declaring war on us, even, but by declaring war on the collective event. the de facto declaration of war was the ultimatum on december 15 , 2022, which was sent to the russian foreign ministry not to ukraine, but to the united states and the nato headquarters, saying that you should immediately get out of there to the borders of 1997. this was a declaration of war.

in fact, and they themselves say, we are at war with the west, with america, with someone else there, just on the territory of ukraine, and ukraine as a partner, negotiation or subject in general international, they do not see, because they denied our sovereignty, they committed evil, if ukraine is a subject of international law, then russia is a criminal, accordingly, they want to talk to the united states in reality, and putin will wait , to wait until such a situation develops in america, when it wants to talk with putin and allows itself. this situation may develop, and it may change after the presidential election in the united states, or a little later after the new inauguration, or even after some events, perhaps unexpected for us or for the americans, but which can be provoked and planned by the russian special services in the territory of the united states or in some other territory, and then they can comprehensively talk about many, many all kinds of things, it is as they would like russians, there about the division of the world, yalta, the yalta treaty. the second edition, the area

of ​​interest and all that, i'm not saying that the united states will agree to it, but the united states has to start from that, from the understanding of that, what kind of negotiations it wants, wants, vladimir putin wants, not with ukraine, not with volodymyr zelensky or not with andriy yarmak, they can maintain some appearance of this, what do we understand here, if the public is considered the whole world there, or even the global south, not only him, but including it, it is wide. the audience hall is so wide, then all the actors try to give the impression that they are for peace, that they are adequate, that they are against escalation, that they are constructive, that they are ready for negotiations, this is shown by the ukrainian side, and it pretends that also shows russian side, they say we are ready for negotiations, but our conditions are unacceptable, and they understand that there will be no such negotiations, but they are ready for negotiations, this is a demonstrative position. i understand, so we

have about 8 minutes left, i have two more questions for you, i really hope that we will discuss them, let's not leave brussels yet, let's talk about... not yet the appointment, but the agreement of the acting of the prime minister of the netherlands, mark rutte, to the post of nato secretary general. mr. volodymyr, i will tell you honestly, i am a lot read about mark ryuta after he was agreed to this position, and from what i read, this is what immediately caught my eye, he is called a teflon mark, that is , something does not stick to him, he tries in any situation to find, and he can find a consensus, it's him to... in your opinion, this teflonism of mark rutte, it will play in our favor, or after all, at some point he can say, let's still

sit down at the negotiating table , come on, here you need to immediately understand and record that the position of general secretary nato is not the leader of nato, it is not the head of the organization, it is the secretary. his work and function is to coordinate the interests of all participants of this alliance of the organization, and accordingly work with all governments, because as we know, decisions are made by consensus, and only when they are made, then the nato secretary general goes out with these decisions to the general public , makes a statement, and his job is to carry out the policy that is developed and determined by the euro-atlantic council, that is, it is a gathering of governments, heads of governments, or governments or whatever. foreign ministers affairs, at the level of defense ministers, all of these are euro-atlantic councils, the rute barque is very interesting in this regard, i think it will be very effective, very effective in this work, precisely in this functionality, it is possible, you said teflonovy to

nothing stops him, well, because in principle he does not do anything that would be blamed for him, yes, well, now we already know that he is, for example, single. he doesn't have children, he's a workaholic, yes, he's just himself, he rides a bicycle to work, because it's a habit, not because he doesn't have a car, but he's just used to it, a person is so used to it, it's so convenient for him to drive far, obviously, he can afford it, well, holland is generally a bicycle country, it's fashionable and popular, that is, he's a professional politician, and by the way, this is a standard example that politics is a profession, not everyone can cope with it, it is necessary to be able to have on... skills, possess skills and accordingly, well , use this experience for the benefit of the entire nation of the entire country, and not only there your family her or her neighbors, her friends, as very often happens in other countries, that's why mark rutte can be such a standard

secretary, and he is impeccable, whatever you call it, but i will repeat it again, the question here is that he copes with this task of coordination. and the coordination of the interests of all participants of this organization, the last stage of which was the coordination of his candidacy, which he managed to pass, after all, to convince the prime minister of hungary, viktor orbán , to support his candidacy. well, my goodness, not many people would have been able to do it, but mark ryuta managed to do it. of course, much of the credit goes to the current secretary, to the current secretary stoltenberg, who also worked with viktor. morban previously gave to budapest and so on, well, it seems to me that mark ryuta may not be worse, mark ryuta, as far as i remember, it was he who promised viktor orban that hungary would not participate in any military aid to ukraine there , and in this way he would have inclined mark viktor orbán to his yes, so

it was, and here i would also like to say that it is interesting, what was the discussion going on, or what country should the general secretary be from until now? all of them were from western europe, this time the current president of romania, klaus iohannis, applied for this position, by the way, i think that he would also be a very, very good secretary general of nato, because the current one, for example, mircea juane, is now stoltenberg's deputy, he is a romanian politician, former minister of foreign affairs, he is the deputy secretary general now, in principle , romanians could also be in this role quite effective. or was claimed by the prime minister of estonia kalas, who is now, well, being nominated for the position of high representative for security and foreign policy of the european union, i think that she will also have a great chance

to be elected, but what did i lead to, that the eastern europe wanted to have its representative, because the threat to nato comes precisely from the eastern flank, and we here in the east of europe feel it better. we understand and can, so to speak, expertly, it is better to do it better, but no, the key, key role, perhaps informal, of these coordination of interests, secretary general, this is how to reconcile the interests of the united states with european states and countries, and when any contradictions arise between europe and america, they invite, as a rule , holland as mediators, for the most interesting thing, it is a trading nation, they know how to negotiate, they are open to of the united states, because they are a maritime state there and well, the mentality is like that, and they, and at the same time they are europeans , are unlike the british, they are not... on the continent, and therefore very, very often the dutch are generals

secretaries, but i was ab defer not so long ago, i was also a hollander, and the danes also perform well in this role, as we have seen now and so do the norwegians, the norwegian secretary general stoltenberg was elected for two terms and continues to do so, and there was no way they could let him go, mr. volodymyr, thank you for this opinion, i really hope that mark rüte will still be in office, as you said in office. nato secretary general is very helpful for ukraine. we literally have two or three minutes left. i still want to be with you speak. in the evening according to american time , thursday, in ukraine, it was friday, four in the morning. in the united states of america , there was a debate between the current president, joe biden, and the 45th, donald trump. your impressions, because immediately after that cnn, and not only cnn, wrote about the fact that he had won. biden, your opinion is not biden, but trump. trump, i'm sorry. yes, i read that thought.

i personally did not see all the debates, fragment, fragment, well, just to emotionally read the information. well, unfortunately, it seemed like a show of weakness to me. and not only a demonstration of the weakness of the current president, due to psycho-physiological reasons, or age -related limitations, voice, posture, body language, and so on, if not taken. to take into account the semantic argument, but just to look at the picture, well, trump dominated, was more confident, more arrogant, allowed himself, well, by the way, they both allowed themselves a lot, this is probably the first debate when the participants switched to personal insults, characterizing each other, and all this, to our great regret, demonstrated to us a general weakness the weakness of the present. of american democracy, the fact that they held a debate before the election campaign started, well it already

looked like a test, let's test these two candidates, how do they do, and it seems to me that the democratic party is not happy with how it looked, will they , they will, they are already talking about it, they are already thinking about it, but they have thought about it before, now they would show the voters clearly this problem that exists, but they will not be able to change it without his own personal decision, if joseph biden himself decides, so to speak, to remove himself and pass this baton to someone else or leave the issue to be decided by the party congress, then this decision is possible, if he does not decide it himself, then replace him, well, hypothetically. well, you can at the convention, but it will be a scandal and it will make things worse for the democratic party, so they

won't go for it either, well, i think that the inertial scenario was the most likely, and they will meet again on november 5 in the ballots, sir volodymyr, closing this topic of debate, two or three words in response, joe biden 2:0 for ukraine this and donald trump for ukraine if he wins the elections. well , i'm very, if it turns out to be pessimistic, then in one case it's a terrible end, in another it's an endless horror, of course. thank you, mr. volodymyr, for participating in today's program, today we talked a lot about ukraine, in particular, about what was happening related to ukraine in the european union, about the appointment, how it will all be for ukraine in the future, how to stand out, and we talked very briefly, but about the american election, mr. volodymyr. thank you, volodymyr horbach, executive director of the institute for the transformation of northern europe. well, eurasia, eurasia,

i'm sorry. well, that's the end of this espresso interview, see you in the next programs, my name is yuriy fizor, see you. there is a discount. represent the only discounts on toloxen strong 10% in pharmacies of travel stores and savings. vasyl zima's big broadcast, my name is vasyl zima, it's a big broadcast on the espresso tv channel, two hours of air time, two hours of your time, me and my colleagues let's talk about the most important thing, two hours to learn about the war, about the military , front, component, serhiy zurets, and what the world is like, yuriy feder is already with me, and it's time to talk about what

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in the next hour, i will be with you in the verdict program, and this one. we will spend together with you and with our guests whom we invited to the conversation, we already have viktor yagun, reserve major general of the security service of ukraine with us and will also be with us today political scientist viktor bobarenko. let's summarize the political and not only political results of this week. mr. victor, congratulations, nice to see and hear you and thank you for joining. good health, good evening. yes, well, i still want to ask you first of all, as a person who understands not only what is visible, but what is not visible. but what can you guess or even know about viktor orban's visit today, he is in moscow, he was in kyiv before that. in your opinion, it is still his desire to talk, as he says, with the leaders of those countries where the war is going on, to learn about zelenskyi's red lines and to talk to putin about something else, whether he could be performing some other mission right now during these

visits, please listen, well, orban doesn't do anything just like that at all. and if we think that he is pro-russian or, i don't know, something else, he is definitely not pro-russian, he is a pro-hungarian politician, and pro-hungarian precisely in his direction, that is, towards himself. the fact that he appeared in ukraine with strange proposals speaks only of one thing, that he really brought certain, certain nuances that related to possible negotiations or proposals, and that he'. the next day there after a day in moscow, this only confirms this information, i liked how piskov said that no, no, we didn't send him there, we didn't give him any help there. "if piskov said, then there were definitely some orders, well, roughly speaking, this is one thing, and the second issue, which is of great interest to him, is everything related to the transit

of gas through the territory of ukraine, which may suddenly stop on the 24th december months, and what they will do, well they partially receive gas from the turkish stream, the same situation, by the way, in austria, but austria for now, i think it has left. they are solving these issues in a different way, and hungary is completely dependent on what is supplied through ukraine, so it is the same issue, and it is clear that orbán gravitates towards leaders who, in his opinion, are solving something in the world, yes, i.e. the meeting with sensenpin, who was in europe, and the meeting with artagan, when it became clear that the hungarian people were appearing... conditional, which was a complete surprise for me, well, this is also another history, and meetings with putin and a trip to

the states and a meeting with trump, this is all a circle of one of the same things, which is called attraction to the strong, that is, you think that after all , orbán is looking for some options for himself now, or wants to occupy his niche , to find his own... it is possible to get the role of a peacemaker, for which he claims and would probably dream of acting as a peacemaker in this story, but if we talk about real ones, well, it is clear that they have not been made public to us and are unlikely to be made public, about real proposals, and why this particular time, well it is clear that it is hardly because orban is currently the head of the european union that hungary is now the president of the european union, that prevented him from visiting before, for example, as the minister of foreign affairs siyar traveled, then to moscow, then to belarus, then somewhere else. by the way, there were such moments with kuleba and yarmak, what is connected with the fact that right now orban is carrying out such boatmanship diplomacy,

that again he could bring and answer later what kyiv says to putin, because this question is very important to me , i am very concerned, not what worries me, i am very interested in understanding, i i wanted to know about zelenskyi's red lines, that is, what is meant, what red lines, where we will agree to stop, where a freeze can be carried out, like them. they think it will work, but again , president zelenskyi orban did not ask ukrainian society, he did not ask the ukrainian army, which is fighting at the front today, so everything here is very conditional, please listen, well, everything is very simple, no one will change the ukrainian constitution, that's all, according to the ukrainian constitution , all occupied regions are undivided the territory of ukraine, and all the talk that we will sign something there, we will stop somewhere, that's all, blah, no one will go for it, no one will go and that's all, so i believe that everything that

russia says there, why, why now, because there is a real huge problem in russia, russia, russia cannot continue the war at the rate it is continuing, it has enough people, teams. no, there are no armored vehicles, they really exceeded the limit that they had, and in order to continue the war at least at a more or less normal pace, they need a pause for six months, a year, and actually because of this , all the movements of orban and... peacekeepers from other countries and these statements about the nuclear danger from belarus and so on and so on, you know all the information background

of one problem of theirs, begin that is, we can say that right now, today, by the way, i was listening to my colleague serhii zgurets in the military summaries of the day column, he said that this week the largest number of military clashes was recorded in a day, up to 200, more than in... the entire history full scale invasion, they say, there were no more, well, there were 170, 130, but there were up to 200, he says, these are really record figures, i don’t know how massive the collisions would be at each individual moment at each individual station of the front, but speaking in general, so this is such a number, and they say that russia is really trying to make the most of the fact that they have both the personnel and the equipment there, and somewhere it is possible now to strike. because we still cannot get and burn their planes there 200-300 km from the front with with the help of foreign weapons, they are trying to use this time to maximally,

maximally achieve... uh, the result in those directions where there is now either minimal progress, or at least they are hooked and are trying to move on. here is this margin of safety, what you say that there is something, something is missing, as much as it can be enough at such a pace of warfare, and on the condition that mobilization continues in ukraine and that the results are improving, even the ministry of defense admits. see all specialists. agree that if the situation will remain at the level at which it is, russia is able to withstand this pace until the end of the 25th year, and in russia they understand that, after, if nothing changes radically, in the 25th year, in the end, autumn, beginning of winter, there may simply be a collapse, an economic collapse, because their state

will not be able to maintain the ... the machine that they themselves have created, at the rate at which they have it, and then, if i understand, unless some drastic other changes begin, no i know that ukraine will not be able to launch any serious counteroffensives there, something else can happen in russia, someone will get a snuffbox in the head, that is, all this, if at the same pace as we see the end of the 25th year, and they don't talk about it that much. there are so many experts, economists, you know , here is this statement, let's just talk about what can affect the situation at the front, yesterday dmytro koleba said that we will receive in an interview with a latvian publication, if not, a lithuanian publication, if i i'm not mistaken, yes he said that there will be good surprises on the issue of the possibility of burning russian aircraft inside, inside russia, in your

opinion, what is going on in these negotiations now, but really getting the russian aircraft that drop these cabs in the bases is a no no no no thousands of km from the border, it is much closer, and again there you can get them en masse, as we en masse, as we saw it, for example, in the crimea, or as we see it in the temporarily occupied territories with the use of western equipment, attack weapons of others, others means of defeat, in your opinion, which interferes of the west to make the final decision yes, let's destroy... at a minimum, let's say, you will facilitate the work at the front, plus you will be able to, let's say, relieve a serious burden from such settlements as kharkiv, settlements of kharkiv oblast, which are constantly interrupted under shelling and these enemy cabs, well, the next circle is the permission to use missile technology that is capable of hitting at 200 miles, 200 miles or 350 km, this is exactly the point, well... that border, which

made it possible to reach the airfields, which are actually a base for those planes that destroy our front-line cities, this is first of all, this is one time, and secondly, this is the appearance of f-16s, which are capable of detecting and attacking russian airplanes that are still in the air of the russian federation, they drop their cabs 80-70 km from the drop point, and in fact they do not even enter our airspace, but if we meet them at 160. we will even be able

to prevent them close to our borders and that then i'm just curious on which on which level should this decision be made? well, if we are talking about american missiles, let's say attacks, it is clear that we are talking about washington, first of all, at what level this decision should be made and what is the safeguard, this is eternal, this can lead to escalation, are there any other nuances that maybe we don't know about, we guess, i think it all has to do with this famous ee treaty on short- and medium-range missiles, which the united states withdrew from, and which actually fell apart there and was ignored by russia, and which now, by the way, was voiced as one of the possible elements.