this is always the question of what we are talking about, the principle of international law, the guarantee of the safety of the population living in this or that territory, this is also important, however, we will remember karabakh, azerbaijan has restored its territorial integrity, it is absolutely internationally recognized, but by the complete eviction of the population that lived in this territory at the moment, well, international law is when you restore the borders of the state, but at the same time you give opportunities to the people who just live there as an ordinary civilian. the population of security guarantees for living where they are, there is no other way, well, in normal international law, now we live in a completely different international law, as you can see, that is, it is also very important, an important situation that we have to talk about, i do not believe that trump will be able to pay off putin, because to believe that trump can pay off putin with four ukrainian regions and crimea is to agree that this is exactly what putin needs, that is why he is waging war, but we understand that... this coincidence everything, all these

territories are coincidence, just in 2013 putin managed to gain a foothold in the donetsk and luhansk regions, but not in the kharkiv and odesa regions, because for various reasons, but also for the reasons of the corruption of the donbass and the connection of its clans, it is yanukovych, yefreimov tsikhanov with moscow that is more serious than in odesa and in the kharkiv region, precisely because, not because russian people live there, in odesa and kharkiv some other people live, the same people live everywhere, it was just there... the vertical head is much more sharpened under moscow, and in the kherson and zaporizhia regions, it is just could these pieces of territory to occupy, and let's imagine that he would not have entrenched there, in mykolaiv oblast and odesa, but kherson and zaporizhzhia, let's say there would not be luhansk from chaporizka, they would not be under his control, well, that's how he would like it in this region, it is not related to the population, it is simply related to certain territories where he managed to gain a foothold, well , if we simply consider that brute force is...

a sign of some rights of the population, it seems to me a very dangerous approach. we have to go for a short break, and in a few minutes let's continue this topic, and of course, we'll talk about orban's visit to kyiv and moscow. don't switch. the book women at war, a joint project of the espresso tv channel and the duh i litera publishing house. book. is based on the reports of the presenter of the espresso tv channel khrystyna parubiy. 20 stories, 20 fates, 20 women who defended the country. the book is dedicated to women who chose the path of fighting the enemy in the ranks of the military. women at war, search in bookstores of ukraine. with the support of the konstantin zhivago charitable foundation. there are discounts, they represent the only discounts on toloxen. 10% in travel pharmacies, memory and savings. 2024 only on

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as well as honored guests of the studio: the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people at dinner at espresso. every week, maria gurska meets with the head of the committee on foreign affairs of the polish sejm, pawel kowal, the representative of the polish government for the restoration of ukraine. as always, we talk about the most important things that happened this week in poland, ukraine, and europe. what is being said about ukraine in the eu, how should we perceive the statements of european politicians and how will our accession to the eu look like? in the project close to politics, close to the world with maria gurska. every sunday at 15:30 with a repeat at 22:00 in collaboration with... saturday politics club, live on air and we continue our discussion. orban came to ukraine this week,

then flew to moscow. in ukraine, he met with the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyi. orban offered peace again, offered a cease-fire, after which he flew to moscow, met with putin there, and basically said the same thing somewhere. many people are talking about this talks this week, and it's probably one of the top topics for discussion. still, why did orban come to kyiv, then come to moscow, what was the meaning of these visits, or was it, relatively speaking, his personal position in order to beautify. to consolidate his status, whether he could still pass on some information or make an exchange between, let's say some positions, between the ukrainian authorities and the russian one and vice versa, i don't think that orbán is the kind of person who is engaged in shuttle diplomacy, firstly, boat diplomacy

does not provide for such an open format with press conferences and statements that it became clear to me that there are very... there are disagreements between moscow and kyiv regarding the end of the war, by and large it must be said that in this situation there are no real possibilities in what does such diplomacy look like in principle, i believe that there are many other reasons, these reasons are related to the fact that, as you and i understand, orbán leads to... a serious game related to, not only his positions in europe, what is the point of this game? well, practically simultaneously with the formulation of this

agenda, this visit created a group in the european parliament, which is increasing and increasing every day. there is work in the european parliament, and i think that the seventh party will soon be necessary in it, it is absolutely obvious such a moment, sijin ping was visiting orban. it is obvious that during this visit of the chinese leader to the hungarian capital, they could also discuss the situation related to the presence, let's say, of the hungarian. of the prime minister, if not in moscow, yes in kyiv, because in principle what orban says is very similar to the chinese proposals, not so much to the russian one, you see that putin repeats the same thing all the time, that the condition for a ceasefire should be the withdrawal of ukrainian troops from the donetsk, luhansk, kherson, zaporizhzhia regions, while china or

hungary talk about a simple ceasefire on the line, they do not demand that we leave somewhere there or that the russians withdraw somewhere, they just stand here. you have to stop the fire here, absolutely such a moment is also obvious, about which we are needed, we also need to understand. another point is that these kinds of trips, this meeting, orban's trip to marol trump, orban's meeting to sizen pin in budapest, orban's trip to moscow to... together with the trip to kyiv, they have to convince politicians, european, of the far-right, let's say, or just populists, in that there can be such a model of existence that you can meet with trump, putin and sydzenpin, and be a fairly respectable

politician in europe, and even zelensky will to meet you in kyiv, nowhere, so to speak. will not happen, this is the model of what i call a chinese europe, not a russian europe, which basically consists of countries that aspire to be members of the european union. even nato, not all, but nato also has a certain part there, because austria is not in nato and serbia is not in nato, and they are not going there. ot. a europe that hopes for chinese investment, a europe that wants to keep in touch with the united states, but with trump's america, because orbán didn't even meet biden when he was naked. they need trump's america, they are preparing for this america, and this europe can. but to function calmly, but it was simply, if you like, a demonstration swim that everything can

be done, that there is a prime minister of a not very large european state who can stop sanctions against russia there and go to moscow, go to kyiv, to receive sidzempin, to go to trump, why can't others, you saw that in principle the party of law and justice there is polish, it really does not want to have any relations with moscow. but all this another model, ukraine, trump, huh, and china is obviously there, so that we can agree on investments, she is also satisfied, however, the party of law and justice, she decided not to join this group that orman is creating in the european parliament, obviously that is why , that yaroslav kaczynski is not satisfied with this russian orientation of trump orbán, but it may suit other participants, for example, geert wilders. say, the leadership of the austrian freedom party, which is already

thinking about what the new austrian government will look like in a few months, might marine le pen, you see how we say in principle, we will support ukraine, but no permission to strike with our weapons on russian territory, no troops, ugh, this is what... russians can consider constructive, but they borders are also shifting, constructively, previously constructively it was not to supply weapons to ukraine, but now constructively it is possible to supply weapons, but not to strike on the sovereign territory of the russian federation. red lines move, and it is important that russian red lines have their own lobbyists, always. so basically, i am i think that this is not about a peace agreement, a conversation, and not about ending the war, but about creating just such a model of the european continent. but it is also extremely beneficial for putin, because from the unshakeable whig, yes, relatively speaking

, the president of the so-called russia, we see that putin is gradually moving to the point that with some politicians and some politicians are ready to go back to shaking putin's hand, to the model of normality, because what happens after 2022 is not... normality, well for russia, yes for russia, but by the way, for reference, while i was on the air, in fact, there is one in ukraine, the analytical center adastra, and today they published information that orbán's group in the european parliament will actually be created, and it is announced that that there will be, at least, at least 30... nine deputies and the austrian freedom party, six deputies, the danish

people's party, the spanish vox, the dutch freedom party, the portuguese party is enough, the hungarian christian democratic people's party, by the way, should join there hungarian fidesz and czech republic ano-2011, that's how many of them already, it's already seven, that is, in fact, they announced that they were, after all, a group. or will be created, or created, or on the way to creation, well, if there are seven parties, then there are seven countries, there are, yes, yes, seven countries should be according to the regulations of the european parliament, this is the situation, so in fact, what , what you are talking about, it is gradually becoming a reality, and of course it is beneficial for putin to have such politicians come to moscow, shake his hand, talk with him about something, one more. statement, if we are also talking about this, mr. fico, the prime minister

of slovakia, went public for the first time after he was assassinated and spent more than a month in the hospital, he actually supported orbán and said that that he would join the leader of hungary if he had such an opportunity, that is, this is essentially another person who... in the european political community, who is ready to join this formula of putin shaking hands, and in fact we can see without even entering this faction. not coming in, this is another branch, and this is another, another leader, another politician also from a small country, who is basically ready to meet putin, talk to him and legitimize him after delegitimization in 2022 and even after delegitimization after the presidential elections,

well, i think you see, these are only the first few, you mentioned these parties to me, let's say, i suddenly remembered that these far-right parties, they have always been such a completely marginal political party for quite a long time power in the country, and there was only one the island, uh, well data generally consists of the islands of jutland, where they always got the majority with their anti-immigration policy, i never understood why, because it was a small island that never had migrants, but the whole of denmark was invaded by these islanders, and this party played... a significant role joined this group and this group legitimized itself, so this is an important thing, but if we talk about what to expect from this conditional group in the european parliament in general, it is clear that they will not have any decisive role, but it is clear that they will carry some certain theses, some certain position in

the european parliament, or it can be assumed that it will be to some extent... a position, if not the russian position, then at least some narratives of the russian federation will appear in the information space and the politicians of the european union and the people's republic of china, which is not much, i would say more dangerous, yes, because the european leaders, that emmanuel macron was, remember, in the late gongzhou , shizen pine was hosted, and now george meleni visited uh china, olaf scholz went there, you see, and precisely chinese narratives are even more dangerous than russian ones, because with russia, so to speak, everything is clear, but with china, not everything is. and then there is another important point, i think it is important for the russians, george melena, with her obvious anti-russian position, claimed to become

the most influential leader of the right-wing radical forces in europe. and now orbán is doing everything so that this does not happen, so that there is an alternative, so that these right-wing forces, they so to speak, separated, and that he himself, perhaps, in the future, would claim the role of the leader of such right-wing forces of an ultra-right character, but he was expelled from the european people's party, and everyone believed that he would go there to bow to the melon, to lipen, he began to split their groups. and now this is a very interesting moment, if in reality marine le pen will join this party in the european parliament, it will be one story, we will see it after the parliamentary elections above all in france, and if not marine le pen, if marine le pen will refuse, and then an alternative for germany will enter, uh, what a very

large faction in the european parliament, and orbán is ready to accept such. good question even more dirty, yes, yes, yes, well , that's the point, i don't know, we'll see, this will be such a moment of truth, an alternative for germany now without anyone, again, orbán's efforts deprive it of potential allies, because all these parties that could go under one roof with an alternative for germany, they will most likely go to orbán, well, it is more solid, more moderate yes, more solid. the czechs, you know, the portuguese and the spanish right, are now starting to play a decisive role in the right camp, because they have a golden share in both countries, without them the right camp cannot

rule, and this will only increase, as you understand, with vox from sheg, it's... it becomes absolutely obvious, i would say, such things, but there are parties even further to the right, here we are talking about vox, and the alternative for germany serves a faction shared with another spanish right-wing party, which has fewer seats than with vox, but the leader of this right-wing ultra-right party, has its channel in telegram, and thanks to this channel in telegram, he was able to conduct his faction to the european parliament, we very often underestimate russian efforts, because he was blocked everywhere for his absolutely wild xenophobic position. but not stupid, and in fact with the help of such resources it is also possible to create, as it turns out, factions in the european parliament and change europe? well, there is a whole

series, by the way, of examples when candidates who made the basis of social networks, or generally anti-systemic social network policy, yes, that is, they de facto... promoted themselves exclusively in social networks, and they won, they are, by the way, there are several such personalities in the european parliament. another very important topic is the elections in great britain, there is actually a historic victory of the labor party, which has not been in power for 14 years, since 2010, they got 412 seats out of 650, that is, they have an absolute majority in the current british one. parliament, and in fact, in britain , mr. stamer became the new prime minister the prime minister, or rather the current, or rather, already

defunct prime minister, rishi sunak, he admitted his defeat and resigned. the elections in great britain are very interesting, because the party that he initially led really ruled for 14 years. we remember boris johnson, so we actually saw how johnson's political power, how the conservatives actually triumphed in 2010 and were re-elected many times, were re-elected several times and there was still no johnson , probably in the 10th year, yes, yes, there was theresa may, theresa may, yes theresa may and boris johnson, we saw how this political force was re-elected several times both to local parliaments, to local self-government bodies, and to the british parliament, or even cameron, who

won then in the 10th year, cameron, if i'm not mistaken, that's cameron, cameron was in 2010, next was theresa may, and then boris johnson, then lis tras, and then the decision was made, that is, actually the only one. and we really see such a situation, of course, that it probably does not affect aid to ukraine, because the position of both the labor party and the conservatives, it is practically the same regarding ukraine, but still, interesting elections and interesting results, how they will affect great britain in general, on... the union in relations with the european union of great britain, well if we are talking about ukraine, do you share the opinion that

there will be no change in great britain's policy towards ukraine, there will be no change in great britain's approach to ukraine, the ministers of the tsiniv government visited ukraine several times, by the way, before all these elections, their position has always been what the government's position has been, they've always said that... they take this common position, and i think that these are absolutely obvious things, the importance of the british election is not in ukrainian support, in the role of great britain, because i think , that the role of great britain in world politics, thanks to brexit, thanks to the conservatives, has decreased quite significantly, and this should also be realized that if great britain were in the european union. and in these positions would support ukraine, the role of the european union was much greater serious and strong, the support was greater, because everyone here likes to say, oh, if

great britain were in the european union, it would not be able to support us like that, on the contrary, everything would be exactly the opposite. i'm not talking about the fact that the economic capabilities of great britain have suffered significantly after brexit, even when we talk about the armed forces, there is simply no money because they are in a deep crisis. why not call it another word that is not used on television, let's really look at what happened in the last 14 years in great britain? david cameron, the prime minister at the time and now for a few months he was the foreign secretary of great britain, a very good one that we have seen as a foreign secretary, he is a strong politician, he decided that great britain, the conservative party of great britain for money. the danger from the populist independence party led by nigel farage and that these supporters of britain's exit from the european union can take away votes from... the conservatives, and

he decided to ride on this agenda, to say that the conservatives themselves will treat the european union more harshly and will even hold a referendum on membership in the european union, which was not necessary, there was no legal necessity at all, but the cameraman had the idea that he would hold a referendum, the british would vote against leaving the european union, farage would... . marginalized and it will be possible to move forward with the song, it didn't happen that way, i thought, and why? and because as soon as this conversation about the european union began, many of those conservatives who were somewhere down there, who were considered marginal, who were considered adventurists, here is a vivid example, this is boris johnson, they realized that their prime time had passed, that if they themselves supported the agenda of britain's exit.

the eu, they will take a role in the party that they would never have in their lives and they have effectively betrayed cameron and the leadership of the conservative party, everything has turned out as they thought, boris johnson has supported leaving the eu, alongside nigel farage and others there the figures we now see in the conservative party are all brexiteers who have now lost power, most of them brexiteers, breck supporters. those people in the conservative party who were against leaving, they were effectively marginalized, david cameron resigned the day after the referendum, and with him, you understand, the whole echelon of people who had a career in the conservative party and came to power random people who were just opportunists, boris johnson, the truss forest, a decision that no one in particular had ever

heard of. and there are a lot of people who can be named, their surnames don't matter now, because all these people, all these applauded, found themselves outside by the british parliament, and where some, like boris johnson, will forever besmirch the reputation of a well-deserved liar of great britain and the surrounding area, but this whole story eventually harmed the british economy, now when we look at the table of the situation in the british economy in various... branches of the economy, social life, medicine, in everything, there are tens, and sometimes hundreds of percents of changes everywhere, this is such a level of crisis, they say that margaret thatcher raised great britain from the economic ruins, but there was no such thing as now, such a fall as now not there was, in fact, even after boris johnson, theresa may came, who tried somehow

to soften this story, to find some kind. common language with the european union, these brexiteers kicked her out, and then boris johnson came and started to break everything, practically breaking the country at the knees. i know there that ukrainians love boris johnson very much, because he used the ukrainian theme to show off on all the television screens in europe, and understood that his support for ukraine, one might say, would give him the opportunity to stay in in the position of prime minister, which turned out to be the case, by the way, he bought himself a few months there with this one. by the way, i believe that it was sincere support, because you know, you can be an idiot in domestic politics, support brexit simply in order to have power, lie about your parties during the coronavirus, but at the same time sincerely hate the imperialist aggression of russia , why not, this does not contradict one another, i think that boris johnson was absolutely sincere in his support for ukraine, it

happens. in politics, politics is not no, no a one-wheeled thing, this is a multi-wheeled thing, and as a result, what we have at the end of this whole adventure with the exit of britain from the european union, the conservatives are effectively destroyed as a political force. yes, by the way, they got, so to speak, the lowest result in the entire history, in the entire history, there are actually 100 or more mandates, well, you can imagine. a political party that took 300, 350, 400, always traditionally, for 400 years, for for for hundreds of years, in fact here has lowered itself to the level of liberal forces that never, never were not, never had high support among the british, we are talking about the last one,

about our time.