talins day. this trip had a positive effect on me, i became more cheerful. thank you very much for such an incredible trip. she will never be forgotten in my heart. let's together give memories that will warm hearts and help to survive these difficult and scary moments. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club. every saturday at espresso. two hours to learn about war, and what the world lives by. two hours to keep up with economic and sports news.

two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like-minded to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for intelligent and caring people, in the evening at espresso.

the military takes a reconnaissance drone into the sky. an enemy sabotage group was spotted on the thermal imager. the coordinates of the enemy were transmitted to the operator of the attack drone. target destroyed. this is how uav operators practice destroying enemy targets in order to teach new... instructors simulate a situation close to combat operations. here we already have the final stage of training, directly on drones, before that we have about 40 hours of simulation in the office at the computer, anyone can go through the training, we believe that today it should be popularized as much as possible, because this is a pretty good, cool and promising profession not only in the army, but also in industry, the agricultural sector, and so on. the instructors teach on the course. control a drone,

determine the coordinates of objects, work in conditions of electronic warfare and perform tasks with various types of drones, free courses are held by the public organization for victory, together with the lev training center. our course lasts two weeks, first students learn to fly on simulators, some of the students have already dealt with such simulators, and accordingly it is much easier for them to learn in the future. next, we look at more... similar students and start giving them such small toys that they can fly on, understand the dynamics of flight, also the glasses are so quite specific, as you get disoriented in space, and so you need to get used to it. petro finished the uav operator's course six months ago, so he decided to prepare for the army, - says the boy. in general, i was interested in this topic for a long time, so i started flying. at home, and here there was such

an opportunity to go to courses, moreover, it is free, and the more you know, the better off you will be, no one knows where you will be taken in a year or two, maybe mobilization, so i decided to improve my skills, except conducting courses, volunteers purchase drones and means of electronic warfare from lviv manufacturers, the greatest need arises for seven-inch kamikaze drones, - says production technologist vasyl, here are presented... seven-inch options, these are kamikazes, they usually fly in one direction, here we manufacture different specifications, exactly what is needed at the front, we also make eights, it is just a larger frame, usually by one inch, and there is no difference even there, we make tens, recently public the organization for victory handed over a hundred drones for two brigades in the ...

direction. volunteers are preparing for another trip to the front. they plan to bring 150 drones to the zaporozhye and kherson directions. kateryna oliynyk, andriy polikovsky, espress tv channel. attention, total sale, garden trimmers kors unpack tv with a discount of only 799 uah, only 799 for a reliable tool, high power, ease of use, very profitable, minimum effort, maximum result, order in time while the video is being broadcast. trimmers are light and very powerful, mow with gas near fences along the line of tracks. near the sidewalk, curb, around trees, trim bushes and even branches, simple and easy. leave big, heavy mowers in the past, choose kors trimmers, classic or with lawn mower function. call now to order at a special discounted price. just look at how powerful our trimmers are, they deal with even

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on espresso, a weekly summary information and analysis program, a clear understanding of the key events of the previous week, analysis of the causes and consequences of these events from experts, forecasts. development of the situation for the current week, the opportunity to ask your own questions and join the discussion, spend the final monday evening with us and confidently step into the new week, the new week project with khrystyna yatskiv and andrii smoly, every monday at 20:00 at espresso. an unusual look at the news. good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresin, sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions. for example, if mykola veresen had done so, he would have gone to prison. a special look at... events in ukraine, so it is not necessary to say that the fish rots from the head, no, not from the head, and beyond its borders, who is china then, my heart hurts, all this in an information marathon with mykola veresny, saturday 5:10 p.m., sunday 6:15 p.m. at espresso.

greetings viewers. espresso. i am artem logutenko in the studio with you today. and we will talk about ukrainian civilians who are in captivity of the russian federation, as well as the fate of political prisoners after returning from captivity. olga and i will talk about this topic in the studio skrypnyk, chairman of the board of the crimean human rights group. i congratulate you, mrs. olga. good day. and also with us in the studio will be akhtem cheygos, ex. kolitvyazan is a people's deputy and the first deputy chairman of the committee of the verkhovna rada of ukraine on human rights before the occupation and reintegration of the temporarily occupied territories of ukraine. mr. akhtem, i congratulate you. glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. i

want to start our conversation by understanding how many ukrainian civilians are in captivity in the russian federation. as confirmed. official according to the data, it is about almost 1,700 people, but some public organizations say that this number reaches 60,000. mrs. ogliu, actually... to begin with, i want to ask you how it is possible to determine the number of ukrainian civilians who are prisoners in the occupied territories? the main problem, if we are talking about the specified numbers, is that russia in general does not report on these numbers, it does not confirm them, it does not admit in principle that it is holding civilians, that is why there is such a big difference in the numbers, one of the they are based, for example, on the registry missing persons, who are already more than 30 thousand, and this is only about civilians, and it is clear that a large part of them... they are prisoners, in principle, the last figures that the same coordination headquarters called were

that the language of anti-civilian prisoners can reach 20 thousand people who are in different places of detention, well, it is clear that it is illegal, that is, in fact, these are people who were kidnapped, that is why there is such a difference in numbers, and each public organization has its own specific registers, who works yes with these territories as ours, for example, is a crimean human rights group, but we document only what can be at least somehow confirmed, and we see that, for example, when they even take our people kidnapped from the crimea by the occupiers to crimea, many of them are in the stage , well , let's say, in this status of incommunicado, russia does not confirm them either to the ukrainian side, or to the families, or to the red cross there, to any international organizations, so actually you and i will not be able to name some final figure, because in principle, russia simply hides this number mr. agtem, here is the question you, what to do with it, how should we make up the number of our prisoners. civilians, it is necessary to continue everything that has been done for so many years,

because, as correctly said, it is impossible to monitor every person there, there are tens of thousands of people, and many of them we do not know and cannot monitor, it also depends on the role from the civilians themselves who got into this or that situation and... in addition, of course, there are those who try to take advantage of this situation, er no, there are not enough, let's say, in er, there are enough, let's say, reasons for that , to be considered our political prisoners there, or...

what about the state? "the state, it works according to a specific scheme, that is, there is a specific person, there are specific data, and it records them, well , it is impossible to use any mechanisms, i recently heard a story, now i will check as much as i can, we have a commission under the ministry of finance" . yes, which one recognizes these or others

as political prisoners so that the state can help, yes, and there are some, there were, as i was told that some, uh, services give thousands of lists there, i now... so far i just heard about this, but i will check, yes, no, so for now we will assume that this is not illegal information, that is, there are also such and such moments in this matter, i would say, where to clearly define that or another person for but

it is not so easy for prisoners. actually, ms. olga, you have been dealing with this topic for quite some time, and as far as i know, you also talk about the fact that it is very difficult to determine and prove to a person that he was in captivity, and allegedly sometimes there are cases when a person tries to pretend, that she was in captivity, so that receive some kind of compensation, can i... somehow comment on mr. akhtem's words now, well, i'll start by saying that we've really had this problem since the 14th year, actually, when crimea was occupied and when the occupation of donbas began, if crimea exactly... although people could find some documents because of the same criminal cases of the russian federation or illegally created courts, that is, there were some verdicts there that we do not recognize, but this is confirmation, the situation has worsened significantly for civilians, especially after of the 22nd year, because we have a part of the newly occupied territories where, in principle, the russian federation has now sort of built some kind of judicial system there, but

mostly civilians, when they catch them, they do not provide any documents that can confirm it, that is, when people are held in torture tortured, mocked, raped, it is clear that the russians will not write a certificate about this and will not hand over to the person, so the problem is that if the capture is confirmed, then it is still necessary to provide at least something so that it can to confirm, those who, for example, have convictions or some criminal cases, they provide at least these documents, and this is enough to confirm, but still the majority of those who apply, they do receive this status, it is about the commission with, which establishes the fact of deprivation of liberty as a result of russian ... aggression, it has existed for many years, but since the 22nd year it was restarted, because the corresponding law fully entered into force, which guarantees the protection of just such people deprived of their liberty as part of aggression , and actually i am a member of the commission, but not from the state, but from public organizations. we have four non-governmental organizations there, which work in the same way as we directly collect information as much as possible in the occupied territories, all state

bodies, and it is the commission that establishes all this information, so for the most part we have positive decisions. in terms of the fact that, for the most part, the commission confirms just the opposite, but it must be understood that not only civilians, but also prisoners of war apply to this commission. the commission examines the same ones, why, because we have the law defines several categories: the first is prisoners of war, they also have the right to establish this fact of deprivation of liberty, receive appropriate assistance from the state, and civilians. as for civilians, we have two groups, the first one, which mr. akhtem just mentioned, is a political prisoner, as it often happens, they are called, but these are people who... precisely as a result of their activities, for their activities, journalists , law enforcement officers, for example, there are people who collected some information about violations of people's rights and so on, or, for example, these are crimean tatars activists, members of the midjlis of the crimean tatar people, and that's what they were imprisoned for, that's what we usually call them, and it sounds like a political prisoner in the media, this is one subcategory of civil, the second is, in general, in principle,

what is now obscured on especially in the newly occupied territories, these are any civilians who are captured by the russian federation in order to... force either this person, or, for example, the state, or some bodies to take some actions, well, that is, in essence, when they capture our people, tortured there for ties to the armed forces of ukraine, or with the security service of ukraine and so on, demand to recognize something, or in general encourage ukraine, for example, well, in the future it may be an incentive for negotiations, yes, certain exchanges, something else, that is, we are dealing with a terrorist state, and the russian federation is calm can grab people and increase these lists for some of her own, the desires that she has are usually what always harm us, so we have to understand that we have just these thousands and thousands of people, and some of them are very difficult, even after release from captivity to receive at least some document that can do this to confirm, that is why it is actually so important, if we talk about what the state can do, it is the security service of ukraine, they try their best to investigate and collect

information, including on the occupied territories, so we advise everyone to submit their appeal, like relatives, to those , from whom i will get someone. in captivity, as well as those who came out of captivity, contact the security service, they work normally, they really interrogate, that is, it is not some kind of terrible interrogation, i understand, people survived captivity and it is very difficult for them to go back to some authorities there and about something to testify, but the security service of ukraine usually helps in this regard, on the contrary, they have information on other people, they can check with other witnesses and so on and so on, it is the same thing to contact the national police, for example, from my experience, in that number and work in the commission, i can say that , for example, kherson oblast... after the liberation of kherson and other parts, yes, our armed forces of ukraine, investigators are very actively working there, and they are really trying to establish who, where , in where the torture chamber sat, and therefore, when you contact the national police, even if it is difficult for you to find a person who was in captivity for confirmation, other people have already been interviewed, they could see you, they can confirm it and so on, so really there is a certain

percentage of people who apply to the commission, but cannot simply provide anything at all, and then the commission asks to collect more... information to apply again, and in principle, the number of times you can apply is not limited. it often happens that people are simple they heard about it, they just applied, wrote, wrote, for example, just an empty statement, just recognize me as a prisoner, yes, but no documents, no explanation were provided, then in principle either public organizations or the ministry of integration are connected, explains: either please expand on your statement, give something more, people come over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again please expand on your statement please that establishing the fact of deprivation of liberty as well provides an opportunity to receive financial assistance. it is about the payment of 100 00 hryvnias once a year, and that is why it sometimes happens that people really apply and write about the fact that they were supposedly in captivity, but in fact there is no

confirmation, neither public organizations, nor law enforcement agencies, and the person, no one could to confirm this, i think that such cases, from what i see even from the practice of the commission's work, are minimal, but we understand that the longer the war lasts, the more such people may be, in fact therefore, when the commission says that at least some information is needed. about confirmation of captivity, this is precisely to establish whether a person was really in captivity, because there may still be cases when a person simply wants to take advantage of the situation, although he himself was not in captivity. mr. akhtem, i also wanted to ask you, as a former political prisoner and as a representative of the profile committee, what advice could you give to relatives of captured ukrainian civilians, what they should do so that... then it would be easier to prove that their relatives are in prisoners, more, i think so

the main thing is to use informational opportunities, i.e. not always relatives, relatives have the opportunity to document it, take these pieces of paper in their hands and then... announce, but when a person gets caught, there is such a factor, first, the first term is time, relatives in general they try not to say anything, yes, but it will probably go that way, uh, that's why it doesn't go that way, and we need to spread the word, and then here, and public organizations, first of all, they... start working on this information , yes and it is such a fast single in my opinion tool all these 10 years, but what

we say about the security service of ukraine or our other police or other institutions, they are still included in this work after some time. and they rely more on some facts, documents, but they appear much later, or do not appear at all, so i still advise all relatives to contact our public associations, because this more effective and most importantly, and you can say everything that you cannot say on... at that moment, officially, it is, it is the forehead human factor, but it is necessary take into consideration. on june 28

, 10 ukrainian civilians were freed from russian captivity, among them two priests of the greek catholic church, art critic olena peh and deputy head of the mejlis of the crimean tatar people, nariman dzhelal. , which the kids gave me, don't cry, don't cry, it's over, it's over, little one, we 'll be together again, i'm home. day did not lose hope that one day it would end, although internally i was ready to endure all this injustice

the term that was assigned to me in the occupation court of crimea, the most important thing for us was to know that ukraine continues to fight for its own freedom, independence, and this hope, this resistance, he inspired us, too. not to succumb to any provocations that were there, these are such inspiring moments, the president of ukraine volodymyr zelensky, commenting on this liberation, stated that the vatican actually helped in the exchange of prisoners, and in view of this , i have a question for our guests, first of all, ladies, i would like to see how active our western partners and international... organizations join the liberation of our civilians, well, as for international organizations, until the 22nd year, i think, was just such a peak of disappointment, most

organizations not only did not join in... even fulfilling their mandate, many of them simply fled then, moreover, they even took with them the equipment that could help save people here, for example , armored vehicles, and armored vests, helmets and everything else, unfortunately, it was just a shock for us, especially when we tried to help some people there to take them out of kyiv region, and it was strange to see that, knowing their mandate, they did not do it, so there is really a lot of distrust in international organizations, but still, for example, in some... cases , the red cross works and some civilians, for example, manage to receive at least some letter for the places of detention in the russian federation, but in terms of direction, in terms of exchanges and the negotiation process, usually international organizations are not involved, because their mandate does not include political actions, but they are important in the context of documentation there, confirmation that there is a problem and so on, that's why we, for example, also guide relatives to contact international organizations so that they also enter in their

registers. gave his reports and so on, because these are basically certain international documents that all other countries refer to, so it is more realistic to understand that political actions, that is, negotiations, we see that, for example, the participation of the vatican helped to return 10 civilians, well, as we were told, that is why the involvement of certain countries is really important, but among these countries, especially partner countries, especially those that inflate ukraine's weapons, it is clear that it is not profitable for russia to go to negotiations, so they can look for... other countries that, for example, do not have such direct partnership relations with ukraine, but they have good relations with the russian federation, so this way is also possible, yes, a peace summit was also held, and you and i know that there was a separate closed meeting in which the obbutsman of ukraine, dmytro lubinets, also participated, and he said about the fact that a number of countries have spoken that they offer their direct participation

and their own. platforms for negotiations, and i hope that this is not the last release of civilians, where we all rejoiced at the return, including nariman dzhelal, who was imprisoned back in the 21st year, precisely because he took part in the crimean platform , it was started then, and we believe that the countries of the crimean platform, more than 60 of them, can participate in the release of our civilians, therefore, in principle , the most realistic for us are these political negotiations with the russian federation, but with... this does not exclude the fact that today russia released ten people, tomorrow it captured another 100. until the 22nd year, before the full-scale invasion of all crimean, yes, political prisoners, those who were imprisoned in crimea, only eight people were returned as part of the exchanges, only eight, among them mr. akhtem cheygos, who was returned at that time with the participation of turkey, but these are only eight people, and now more than 200 of them will play, this

is only about crimea, what we... know from the political affairs of crimea, so actually, unfortunately, while the occupied territories are occupied, we have no guarantees that new hostages and new prisoners will not appear, but the process is underway, and this is the first such exclusively civilian exchange, because before this, after the 22nd , civilian within the framework of the exchange of prisoners of war, but these were very isolated cases, that is, literally one, two, three people, several women were returned, but russia did not return people en masse, we only have those civilians who then just after... after that , as they were released after torture, they were also released at their own pace, yes, already independently reached the pin-controlled part of ukraine, but so that it was precisely within the framework of the exchange of some official negotiations with the russian federation, then in principle this is the first such exclusively civilian and exclusively civilian return without prisoners of war. mr. artem, i actually wanted to hear your opinion, because as ms. olga rightly noted,

in... you were returned to ukraine with the participation of istanbul, and i want to ask you as a people's deputy: how lively are the discussions with e-governments, at the inter-parliamentary level with other countries, the issue of returning ukrainians civilians, can you tell us something about this? that's a tough question, honestly. speaking now of our partners or in those institutions, the question is not the mandate, the question is that they have not yet developed such an instrument that would be effective for putin, because only he decides who to give and who not, no one else is there , there are many intermediaries, but they, as they say, make the legs.