skills are already on the training ground, in the six months since the opening of training, fifty people, both military and civilian, have gone through how to prepare to fly drones, the cadets showed our correspondents, let's see, the cadets are learning to fly drones, with a joystick in their hands, watching a quadcopter on monitors, this is already the fourth day of training, during these four days we have passed a lot. a lot of interesting information that is learned very well, they train air scouts here, so the instructors prefer not to give their names and cover their faces. in we are specifically trained in air reconnaissance, that is, adjusting artillery, adjusting mortars and other types of weapons. air reconnaissance is, in fact, the eyes of the army, without aerial reconnaissance ftv can't do it either. there is no age limit here, in general, that is, people from... older

people can come, older people are a little better at doing just that. after training on the simulator, the cadets continue to hone their skills on the training ground, but only after passing the exam, assemble the drone and bring it into combat every cadet should be able to prepare. now what can we do? they work in pairs, one as a navigator, the other as a drone operator. the sound is quite stable, it doesn’t go anywhere, well , it’s quite simple, but now we’re training on didj mini2 drones, it’s a reconnaissance drone, it’s cheaper than mavics, but the camera is the same, it’s just that it can also fly from the operator up to 7 km, but this is enough for training, now they will perform figures. after the figures, they will search for

objects, in the center, the cadets receive the basic ones knowledge, skill improvement takes place in units, depending on tasks. it seems to me that now is such a different time, that is, you have to study 100%, and since it is the eyes, therefore you need 100%, because everything in war is evolving, and now, that is, unmanned aerial vehicles, they are like that. this is a very cool thing and everyone should be able to use it. at the black stork center, instructors trained about 50 copter pilots. some of the graduates joined the ranks of combat brigades. third assault and azov. good luck to all those who are both military and civilian learning to fly drones. i always, you know, remember why it's important for civilians as well. i am very brief, i always remember the story. someone was writing a book about the first year of the war, there was a story when... a boy,

a 15-year-old teenager, at the request of the military , operated a copter, his own copter, filmed the movement of enemy troops there, well, at that time , at least someone had to do it, and it is important to be able to, we understand that anything can happen in this war, and we must be as prepared as possible. volodymyr fasenko, a political scientist with us, mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, i congratulate you, let's start with the phrase of joseph biden, the president of the united states of america, who said at the opening of the nato summit: ukraine... will win, as it is, there is no need for illusions, or there is no need to deceive yourself, ukraine will win this war, russia will lose. i would like you to say, in your opinion, on what grounds, on what grounds, well, besides the fact that this is the ukrainian army, yes, we know that it can, it is capable, it, despite the blood, pain, many problems, which there are, continues to hold the enemy, to push him somewhere, but what gives president biden the reason to say these words, to the ukrainians of the world, when we understand that

the situation is not easy, and obviously we would wait for an invitation to nato, well, but they tell us that you will win, the ukrainian army is capable of winning, with what, what should they give us so that we are able to really to complete this story of the russian-ukrainian war, well, first of all, let's be realistic, and when we talk about biden, he already said in one of the recent interviews that he has already won. putin putin is already defeated, although in reality it is not so. that's why i'm a little reserved to journalistic and political statements. even when us president joe biden speaks about it, because he speaks in the pre-election context. and it is also important that , unfortunately, the understanding of victory is slightly different between us and the president of the united states. we mean complete victory, i emphasize.

a complete victory, because there can be a partial victory, here, in fact, it is also necessary to distinguish the nuances of victory, all shades of victory, a complete victory is... the liberation of all occupied territories, and for biden, for example, victory is preservation ukrainian statehood, ukrainian independence and most of our territory. he said this when he spoke before the us congress. these are important nuances that must also be understood. but it's fundamentally important that biden is now talking about winning, not just that we're going to shoot for that we're not going to lose the war because the consensus between the united states. by european states, by all western states, that we do not lose this war, but for us it is not enough, simply not to lose, and even in the words of victory, that ukraine will win - these are signals, which should inspire us to continue

the resistance, to continue to fight, but i would emphasize at the same time that these signals should be sent by biden not only to us, we have no other way out but to fight against the russians... onslaught, we just have there is no choice, we have to fight, this is a question of our survival, of our future, but the signals of victory biden must send inside america, to american society, to various groups of american politicians, because our victory, in the end, it is their victory, and this the victory should not only be in words, and in order to ensure this victory, the allied... states should strengthen, not just maintain support for ukraine, but strengthen support for ukraine, so that we have an advantage over the enemy. our victory can be real when we have a technical, technological, resource advantage over the enemy, and for this we need the support of our

allies and, first of all, the usa. you know, if we take, as they say, the starting positions, then in this task what... wanted to capture kyiv in three days, establish a puppet government, here we remember, even whose last name was called by name, for the position of the so-called gaulleiter of ukraine, we also remember the state traitor medvedchuk, and maraev appeared there, there were many muraevs, there were many people, so of course we can say that the fact that the enemy did not manage to achieve his goals and make ukraine a puppet completely controlled by russia is already a victory, and on the one hand, but we understand that this is not the victory that was paid for today... with tens of thousands of lives, if not by hundreds, ukrainian society, but you know, me i would still like you, as a person who has been involved in politics for a long time, as a political scientist, to comment on those moments that were voiced immediately after the enemy missile attack on okhmadite, and this has already been proven by the

security service, and the un recognizes that it's a russian missile, it wasn't shot down here, it wasn't air defense, a russian missile, it flew in and hit with high precision, according to ohmadit, let's say, deputy from the servant of the people, artem dmytruk. writes that do we need an end to the war, this was announced yesterday , such pro-russian messages, definitely, i will not read everything he wrote, but he says that the very end of the war will be a victory, and again here it is worth understanding, this is the statement of a deputy who came to the verkhovna rada with the servants of the people, or can this be interpreted as the fact that he was simply given the opportunity to voice it, let him say it society, and we'll see, but individual people can think like that, i'm not saying that it's president zelenskyy who thinks like that, or andriy yarmak, who's in favor, but there are some people who... think like that, say, but let him voice it, and we will look at the reaction of society, well, reaction society, as the very end of the war will be a victory, how to translate this for the people who, perhaps, in time will elect a new president, a new parliament, what is meant by this, and why is this being thrown into a society that is significantly traumatized, because

murder children is one of the biggest traumas for society in fact, and these professional cadebists, professional killers from russia, they clearly understand... what traumas do they want to inflict on ukrainian society and what do they want to incline it to? well, not really a blow only according to ahmaddit, i will remind you that even more people died in another, even private building, in a private clinic, yes, yes, even more people died in one of the entrances of a residential building, yes, more than 30 civilians of kyiv died in total during the massive missile attacks in kyiv and in ukraine even more so. in fact , it was an act of intimidation, the reaction of people is different, and i think that for the majority of ukrainians, well, i risk it, i don’t have, let’s say , any sociological survey data, they are somewhat late are held, i think there will also be a reaction,

a negative reaction, a reaction of pain, but not despair, a reaction of resistance, of hatred towards those who made this attack, but society. there are different things, there are people in the society who are ready for peace at any price, i don't know the opinion of this deputy, in the servants of the people, you know, that's when they change. played there as a mold of society, there were the majority of people with patriotic views, supporters of the european integration of ukraine, people with liberal views, but there were isolated supporters, for example, there was such a a character who was a fan of mr. lukashenka, and he was not expelled from the faction, he remains in the parliament, well, because you can't just expel him, there were. people who, well, let's put it this way, were supporters of reconciliation with russia, too, there were not very

many of them, but there were such people, there were people connected with the moscow patriarchate, there were also different people in this faction, and they remain, and when, you know, one of them speaks, you know, it is possible to simply have directly opposite, absolutely opposite, let's say, positions, someone... wants a complete victory, but i criticize our military, there is mrs. maryana bezula, for example, yes, there is tyshchenko, who was also expelled from the faction, from the party a long time ago, for his scandals, yes, no one asks permission from them, they express their position, yes, and this is a reflection of the mood in society, for sure, as well as the position of mr. dmytruk, i think that if zelensky were shown the statements of this gentleman, i think that he would hardly agree with them, because... we know his public position, but it reflects part of the opinion in

society, which is tired of the war. the only that i will point out that, well, from the point of view, i will already point out here that as a political scientist, purely professionally, there cannot be peace on any terms, on russian terms, capitulation to russia, peace on russian terms does not mean peace, it means the fact that after some... time, putin will want to fully fulfill his goals and objectives, which he set at the beginning of the invasion of ukraine, he wants to completely conquer ukraine, so to think that we will agree to russian conditions and there will be peace, well, unfortunately, this is not so, and mr. dmytruk, i think, simply did not become such a real professional to a politician who can professionally assess the situation, he is simply expressing his... fatigue from the war, maybe the mood of a part of society, but according to ukrainian

sociologists, it is a smaller part of society, there is no more than 15% according to polls, so i feel free to i relate to such opinions, there are different people in this faction, and if they express such a position, it is necessary to react to it, to explain that, dear friend, you are wrong, and your opinion, first of all, does not correspond to the leader of your party, the president of the country, yes, you too choose, either you support the president, or you want to express your own opinion that does not correspond to his position, because this is political logic, yes, these are other people who are outside the parliament, who do not belong to the political forces, can express their own opinion, he has to choose, especially since he is elected from a list or a servant of the people belongs to the party, so i am calm about this, but critical, because there cannot be

peace unilaterally, and the peace that putin offers us it is unacceptable to us because it means surrender, we must to force putin, and even simply to end military operations, putin must be forced, because he does not want a freeze on the conflict, he wants the capitulation of ukraine to russia, and this is definitely unacceptable for... the state leadership of ukraine and for the absolute majority of ukrainians. but i know that in russia they like such a word counterproductive, and indeed, if we do everything to make this war counterproductive for putin, then he will think, well, as i always remember this story, ivan the terrible ended the livonian wars, because he realized that he would not succeed in defeating stefan batory, batory's troops were already near pskov, and actually they began negotiations with the mediation of the vatican, which ended this war, because, as they say, its continuation was for the moscow kingdom on... with counterproductive, they could not achieve their goals, well, there was another story, but

they could not as of then. you said it very well, maybe one trailer, one trailer, i would use a different term, we need both us and our allies, our international partners need to increase the price of war for russia, and on the battlefield with strikes on russian territory, the price of war, sanctions against russia, but if putin feels the high price of war both for himself and for... russia, then he will be forced to go to some real negotiations and take into account, as he likes to say, political realities, yes, that's exactly what should be done, to increase the price of war for russia. you said very correctly that obviously, in your opinion, mr. dmytruk may not have become a politician, and i remember how, on the eve of the invasion, he did french journalist, channel france 1, in my opinion, that film about france's presidency in the european union, but the war started and the film was called

the president, somehow there was europe and war, there was something like that, but it was very interesting that when... guy lagash, oh this journalist, sitting in the car with emmanuel macron, he asked him something, and what do you think about it? emmanuel macron, like a true politician, said, you will never know what i really think about this, what matters is what i say, well that is politics, but here is macron who said this phrase then, he said that germany and the united states of america are countries that now specifically do not want to see ukraine in nato, i do not want to spread treason here again, but i would like you to comment, because it was voiced today also jens stoltenberg, that... the problem of the brake on ukraine's accession to nato is also the position of individual countries. why? i would like only a nuclear threat, but why? i see, well actually the answer is obvious. yes, and here is an important remark, an important clarification. it is not about a ban or a critical position regarding ukraine's accession to nato in general. no, neither

the usa, nor germany, even, are opposed to ukraine joining nato. they are now against the fact that, at the moment, in the conditions of the current war, ukraine should be invited to join nato. that's what their position is. and what is this, and what is it for, it will provoke some kind of escalation, some other bi or look, logic, what logic, logic is simple enough, and it is known, it is not new, it was last year, it was also in 2022 , but there was a special, let's say, contrasting, even somewhat conflicting, on the eve of the vyshniv nato summit. now the situation is calmer, by the way, and the ukrainian leadership clearly understands that at the moment, due to the position of biden and germany, well, in fact, there are some other countries with more, let's say, non-ukrainian, non-pro-ukrainian positions,

hungary itself, for example, yes, so this will be a problem for us, by the way, at the finish line, not now. but when it comes to our real accession to nato, but today the logic is as follows: if we extend an invitation to ukraine to nato, even if it is not directly mediated, but nato takes responsibility for the war, not just for supporting ukraine against russia, but for participating in the war against russia. when finland and sweden were admitted to nato, they were given a pass. guarantees even before joining nato, if such preliminary guarantees are given now, it will mean, well, indirect participation of nato in the war, but today the usa and nato in general have two attitudes towards the war between russia and ukraine: the first attitude - to help ukraine so that we do not lose this war. ot

we started our conversation with words about the fact that... biden advocates the victory of ukraine and this is already progress, great progress from the point of view of biden's public rhetoric and his public position, but the real attitude is this: to help so that we do not lose this war. feel the difference. the second attitude is to help us in such a way as to avoid a direct military confrontation between nato and russia, because if a war between nato and russia starts, it will not be a conventional war, not a conventional war, with conventional means and resources, a war that will escalate quickly enough in a nuclear war, and a nuclear war is a great risk of self-destruction of humanity, that's the logic, and it is this logic that determines the position of both the usa and germany. another thing, the positive news

is that i hope that there will be corresponding positive decisions at this summit, there is already information from. i refer to informed sources, i refer to serhiy sydorenko, the editor of ukrainian pravda, a very competent person, very informed, he is currently on the sidelines of this summit, he says that the final documents may contain a thesis about the irreversibility of ukraine's accession to nato, and this thesis, well, supposedly one word, we do not know how it will be formulated, formulated finally, but nevertheless, if it will be, then it is a signal for us. a signal of encouragement that you will be in nato, yes, the door in front of you is not so much that it is not closed, yes, it is, let's say, half-open, and if some document is also signed on... security cooperation between nato and ukraine, then what is expected, i don't know, it will be an agreement, like with the european union, or something else, yes, it will be, you know, like a certain engagement between ukraine and

nato, the legal registration of the marriage will be after war, and now it is a confirmation that we will be in nato, and this is already a signal not only for us, a positive signal, but it is also a signal for putin that the topic of ukrainian membership in nato is not a subject of changes, is not a subject of negotiations, about will finish wars, this is also very important, because one of the main goals of putin, everyone is talking about the territories, they say that putin wants frozen wars, he does not want frozen wars, he wants ukraine to abandon nato, he wants us to reduced our armed forces, our weapons, that's it his main goals, and the territories, are, let's say, in second place, this is also necessarily putin's program, but not in first place, he will not give us anything. this must also be understood, all these plans of kolokoltsev are a fake, completely untrue, he will not give us anything, let alone give, yes, and he will demand

to recognize them as russian, which is also unacceptable for us, but in the first place the rejection of nato and the reduction of the army, and that is why the formal fixation of the fact that we, or rather, that our movement in nato is irreversible, is already important. in addition, concrete decisions should be considered at this summit, i would say about actual movement towards nato, actual integration into nato and actual help from nato, which was not there before, but was only from individual nato countries. it is about the creation of a special military aid fund for ukraine. it is about the fact that the logistics of the supply of weapons and ammunition will be transferred under the operational control of nato. well, it is related to trump to a certain extent, but nevertheless... what is important is that there is already a decision on the operational interoperability program of the armed forces of ukraine and of our security structures with the relevant structures of nato. this is very, very important from

the point of view of ukraine's actual integration into nato. i believe that today this emphasis on actual integration is more important than simply, let's say, formalizing our legal relations. the fifth article on mutual defense, on collective defense is important for us. but it is important after the war in order to prevent a new russian attack on ukraine, and i am a supporter of exactly this logic. we have literally two minutes, but i still i will ask your opinion, because it was voiced on the air today by other guests, and is it really very important for ukraine to hold out and inflict the maximum, the most painful blows on the russian army, the russians, by the way, at the same time are abandoning the summer troops, they are no longer they make clear assaults, they use them. troops in order to achieve at least what they do not want to achieve, to hold out at least until the us presidential elections, because as informed people,

respected experts say, putin still wants to talk to the us president and it is important to understand who became him after the november elections, is it true or not, if you can take a minute and a half, but i'm interested to hear it briefly, yes, first of all, i agree with the fact that it's really been six months now, well, even there it's real... less there are really only a few months left before the us presidential election, but the new president, if it will be the new us president, will not take office until january of next year. it is very important for us to demonstrate that we have stopped the enemy, and if we achieve certain tactical successes, this it will also be very good, this is the first, and secondly, if there is trump, with a very high high probability, trump can force us to negotiate with russia. another thing is that there is information, the advice of his advisers, if putin will not agree to a simple ceasefire, and

will insist on some ultimatums, then the united states should strengthen its support for ukraine, and therefore we should now work, in particular, with the trump team in order to in order to maintain the aid to ukraine from the us, and at the same time, that this aid, well, under certain conditions even... increased, so yes, putin is waiting trump, but at the same time, i think that there are no big illusions that it is trump who will play in favor of russia there, that there will be peace on russian terms, so far there is no information that trump wants peace on russian terms, that would looked like the defeat of the united states, and today president zelensky correctly emphasized the fact that for putin any president - the united states - is evil, yes, and he can tactically choose between them, to support someone there, but there was already a situation when in russia supported trump, and it ended with the fact that relations between the united states and

russia worsened precisely during the presidency of zhirinovsky, who had already gone to a concert in kopzon, olivier was handing out champagne beer in his mind, then tomahawks were launched at russian ships, russian air defense systems and aircraft at airfields in syria were destroyed, and we got javelins just then, and that's why one should not be afraid of trump in advance, one should work to ensure that the us support is preserved for ukraine. thank you very much for joining, thank you for your comments volodymyr. a political scientist was in touch with us, we still have these political science topics let's continue, we will have a guest, literally right there and we already have the next guest, for whom we were waiting, and i will also with great joy introduce oleksiy gran, professor of political science at the kyiv-mohyla academy and scientific director of the center, gentlemen, mr.

oleksiy, good evening, let me know. thank you for joining, we actually started a conversation with mr. volodymyr, we may not significantly change the vector, but i would also like to add to this conversation the positions, possible positions and the possible role and influence of the countries of the global south in deciding the course of this war and that these words are trump's, not trump's, joseph's. it is said that you should not, do not be deceived, do not deceive yourself, ukraine will win, the ukrainian army is capable of defeating russia in a battlefield, so that these words really become a reality, here it is important to understand the role of the global south, so i will still start with the fact that i now, with your permission, i will read very briefly the post of oleksandr kraev, who is actually an americanist and a specialist of the ukrainian prism company on this issue,

he says that joe biden tried to... the inclusion of the wording about irreversibility ukraine's accession to nato in the draft communique of the alliance summit in washington, according to the washington post with reference to sources. the main reason is that ukraine has not done enough to fight corruption. as a result, what do you think we can get out of this communiqué, and what should we get in order to move forward with good support behind us and in our hands, with weapons, and again, so that biden's words about that we can overcome were not just... a figure of speech, as they say, but were confirmed by something, whether please, if he said that corruption in ukraine is an obstacle to moving towards nato, then it is probably partly true, but it is not the main reason, we understand it perfectly, that is , we still understand that corruption is a problem , but we have done a lot to fight corruption, and

there is corruption in the country as well. nato is also the main thing here, what we can operate on is that the ukrainian army and ukrainian society, it fights, it really fights for democracy and for nato countries, and we die so that nato countries feel feel safe, this should be, this should be the main thing, this is what should determine the position of the leadership, the leadership of the alliance countries, because... there decisions are made by consensus, but when we say should determine, then we know that if moral imperatives and even there some strategic imperatives, they do not always play the main role, because colleague fesenko rightly said that the united states and germany are the two countries that are currently opposing ukraine's membership in nato, and precisely because of nuclear, through i...

the nuclear factor, you know, i think that , of course, the timing of this summit is not very favorable, not very favorable for ukraine, well, it was not possible to postpone it, because it is the date of 75 years, it could have been held there a little earlier, a little later, but that this is the peak of the election campaign in the united states, and under the conditions when both candidates are going... head to head, ah, biden does not want to take risky steps, he is actually afraid that he will then come under the criticism of trump and his supporters, that they say biden can drag the united states into war, that's why the combination of these factors leads to the fact that the decision has not yet been made, well, we are really at that point...