agree that ukraine will become a member, but it is too early to say when exactly this will happen, ukraine and i are moving closer and closer to nato membership, and we are taking concrete actions for this. today is the last day of the summit, the ukraine-nato council will be held, as well as a joint session of countries that have signed security agreements with ukraine. zorina stepanenko, marek haidukh, radio svoboda from washington. well, in these minutes, the columnist of radio svoboda joins the freedom of the morning. my greetings to you. vitaly portnikov, journalist, publicist and vitayu. thank you for joining. mr. vitaly, full membership of ukraine in nato has become irreversible, this is essentially a short summary of the washington summit. for ukraine, this decision is historic, what do you think? well, it seems to me that in fact all recent nato summits talk about the irreversibility of ukrainian membership in nato. it will be historic for ukraine when a decision is actually made on its euro-atlantic integration. and for now we are talking

exclusively about declarative promises, which are not accompanied by any specific terms of ukraine's accession to nato, and it remains under the big question is when it can actually happen. there are many more topics, in particular from the international level, that we want to discuss with you today, here is one of them, it went through social networks very well, russia held a celebratory dinner at the un, where the main dish was kiev-style cutlet. it would seem like a trifle, but ukrainian diplomats do not think so, in particular, the post... the un from ukraine said that the moral degradation of russian diplomacy is obvious. but the question is different: is it only russian diplomacy, are there not those countries that would not sit at this table and, i don't know, would not taste these meatballs, but how to evaluate it? well, this once again shows the trap international diplomacy has fallen into, due to the fact that a country that is a permanent member of the security council of the united nations actually violates all norms of international law. this is certainly not a question. exclusively about what

is on the menu of the celebratory dinner in honor of the fact that russia will chair the security council of the united organization, it is a question of what in principle, there are no real mechanisms to demonstrate the ability of the international community to oppose any actions of one of the nuclear powers, this seems to me to be a huge problem, because the question is not even that russia continues to preside. in the un security council, and absolutely does not pay attention to criticism of its aggressive actions, there are other problems associated with its behavior, it is not at all what happens at a celebratory dinner, but it is that there are countries such as the people's republic of china , like india, like most of the countries of the global south, which adhere to the tactics of friendly, good relations with the russian federation, which continue to consider the issue of the conflict between russia and ukraine. as a conflict in

the post-soviet space between two close countries that have to sort themselves out, and in the meantime these countries have to leave economic relations with the russian federation, have to leave a high level of diplomatic relations with it, so this is really a trifle, what a cutlet, who is for dinner, and the fact that china and india buy russian oil is another russian products, give russia the opportunity to continue the militarization of its economy and prepare for many more years of war with ukraine, and perhaps with other former soviet states. public, which russia sees as a part of its, history, political and its political future, this is the number one question, but i have to tell you that for me there is nothing strange in this menu, i remember very well the name of the restaurant, which is located exactly opposite the state duma of the russian federation in the moscow hotel, not far from red square, it is called a country that does not exist, and the menu of this restaurant has always had meatballs. kyiv and khachapuri

and other dishes from the cuisines of the former soviet republics, and this restaurant also demonstrated the readiness of russia, not even the russian leadership, but russia as such, to regain what was lost as a result of the collapse of the soviet union in 1991, and now russia simply offers this menu to everyone others you said that international diplomacy has fallen into a trap, commenting on what is happening in the un, and is there any point in convening emergency meetings. this is ukraine after the attack on okhmadit , the un convened this extraordinary meeting, there were no effective decisions after it, so it is just happening for the tick, there is an understanding that this will not give any result, or is there still some hope that the light will surely be shed and i don't know there states will make some decision that can change the course of action. this is the logic of world diplomacy, if we agree that the post-war order, the behavior of states is such that it should respect international law, humanitarian law and so on, then we should...

of course, initiate such meetings in as a result of strikes on our territory, all the states that suffered such strikes after the second world war, when the united nations organization existed, did so. maybe ukrainians. not much attention was paid to it, but it has always been so, just now ukraine is the center of attention, the war in ukraine will end, i don't know when it will happen, the center of attention may be some other country, on whose territory bombs, missiles will explode, killing people is part of politics, so to speak. the world is moving towards preventing this from happening, but unfortunately, the post-war years are it years, when people were constantly dying in various conflicts, it's just a larger conflict, maybe than another, but we remember how much it was after the end of the second world war and for... the united nations security council was meeting and it's always was fixed and it is simply important to do this, because it is the norm of post-war diplomacy. once again , they say, if we even imagine that the war between russia and ukraine will end in the coming years, there will be more meetings of the un council, there will be more missile strikes, there will be more destruction

of various civilian objects, unfortunately, if we will not create a fairer more important world, the main thing is that at the united nations security radization meetings its members continue to... discuss and characterize this as the absence of a norm, because if we stop talking about it and assuming that it is and should be, then these conflicts will spread over a much more serious territory than, say, the territory of ukraine, or the territory of the near east there, and it will take place on a much larger scale, in order to prevent the possibility of larger-scale conflicts, say of the third world war , we need to talk about such tragedies as the ukrainian one, as well as about all other tragedies, which we will witness when the russian-ukrainian... war there in the 20s and 30s of this century will definitely come to an end. the spanish publication elpis writes that vladimir putin and xi jinping believe in new negotiations between the russian federation and ukraine by the end of this year, 2024. well , to believe - it does not mean that it will happen, but still, it may be related to

expectations that there may be a change of power in the united states, and trump, as you know, is a supporter of negotiating, or does this belief in negotiations have some other basis? i think that everyone believes what they want to believe. in politics, ukraine wants to hold a second peace summit even before the presidential elections in the united states, and vladimir putin is sure that it can be negotiated before the presidential elections in the united states, it is also obvious, by the end of the year, it will still be the president of the united states in any - in any case, no matter how the election ends, joseph biden. vladimir putin may believe that effective strikes against the enemy will force ukraine to capitulation and to the fact that the war will at least stop on the terms put forward by the kremlin, and volodymyr zelensky can believe. that new western weapons and strikes on russian positions could change the situation at the front so that russia would seek an end to the war, and shizen ping might believe that both sides could be so exhausted that they would need chinese

mediation, at least for a temporary suspension of hostilities actions for some time, but all this has nothing to do with ordinary politics, because war is not at all ordinary politics, we don't know what might happen tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, because this is primarily a contest of power, not a contest of diplomacy, so first of all, we don't know whether putin or sydzenpin really believe this, because viktor orbán says so , and they can use diplomatic formulas with him, which cannot fail to be implemented, and secondly, of course, we must also be aware of the fact that the situation can be accompanied by a rather serious power advantage of one of the parties or the determination of both, a platform for peace talks yes and no will be found, this can also be a completely normal situation for the russian-ukrainian war, as we have been observing it in recent years. russian politician medvedev published a post on his social networks about the alleged negotiations, in fact, where he writes that they are possible only on russia's terms, they say, even after the signed documents, russia will have to,

i quote: finally crush the viper. today, the entire official kremlin speaks in the medveyev statute, that is, even after the resolution of the russian-ukrainian large-scale war russia will attack again and again. how to evaluate what he wrote, firstly, which audience is it aimed at, and secondly, how to evaluate it, you wrote a long blog about it, if i'm not mistaken, well, maybe give us a brief impression of what you heard? medvidov, deputy chairman of the security council of the russian federation, former president of russia, one of the most authoritative hawks in the security council of russia, they try to belittle him there, but these are people who do not really understand what russian policy is, in fact, what the signals from of a russian official, all this is written in the press service of the president. of the russian federation, not by medvedev, not by putin, but by officials who are authorized to give signals to the kremlin. and of course, there is a simple idea: the goal of russia is the destruction of ukrainian statehood and, by the way, i will add dotted lines here, other former soviet republics. no person who lives on the territory of the former soviet republic

can feel safe. every soviet republic, possibly with the exception of the baltic states, which are part of nato, can to become a part of russian military, economic and political aggression in the coming years, and this entire... so to speak subcontinent may fall, this is the reality we live in, but russia may not have the strength to carry out these ambitious plans that the russian leaders, that is , the return of russia to the borders of 1900-91 to the borders of the soviet union, and medvedev is sending a signal to his people who want this, and to russian chauvinists who believe that this should not just be a wish, but concrete actions, even if we have to stop the war with ukraine, we will definitely return to the destruction of the ukrainian state in the future, by the way, he added that it may not necessarily be a military destruction, russia can take political steps, spend money on it and so on and so forth to help come to power. in the destroyed, exhausted, reduced in terms of the population and territory of ukraine, pro-russian forces, which themselves will

take steps to integrate ukraine into the composition of either russian integration structures, or the russian states, those who do not believe in it, can look at the fate of post-war georgia, if ukraine does not receive real security guarantees from nato countries, does not become a member of nato, is not sure that war will not start tomorrow, ukraine's return to russia. ukraine's sphere of influence is much more inevitable and irreversible than its accession to the north atlantic alliance, which our allies claim, i always say that to western countries, the formula is simple: if ukraine does not fall to the west, it will definitely return to the east, and our western the allies should understand this and should not deal with declarations, but with concrete steps, by which they told the ukrainians that their children and grandchildren will not die in the future from new wars with the russian federation, and the possibility of this is huge, i repeat, it will almost certainly not be avoided if ukraine does not a member of nato. there will be new and new and new terrible wars. mr. vitaliy,

the ukrainian media is now also more actively talking about the negotiations, referring to the international press, referring to what western politicians say, what do you think the ukrainian authorities, to the extent that they changed their approach to these negotiations, taking into account what happened in istanbul, then there were two years of large-scale invasion of permanent military operations there in those territories that are under constant shelling and for. to what extent are the dynamics of change in approaches to these negotiations? i believe that the negotiations on the end of the war do not depend on the ukrainian authorities and never will. negotiations to end the war depend on one single person, the president of the russian federation, vladimir putin, because the ukrainian government can change its approach to negotiations as much as it wants, want negotiations, not want negotiations, and vladimir putin does not consider the ukrainian government to be the power of a sovereign state, he considers its ukrainian government to be the power of a rebellious province, which sooner or later must be put in place, and be returned to the place in which this province

was part of the russian state, and therefore the president of the russian federation is absolutely not interested in negotiations, he is interested in this province agreeing to the conditions in which he wants to see it, i will remind dmytro medviev again, so that the verkhovna rada of ukraine would meet and make a decision on the annexation of ukrainian lands to russia, full stop, therefore, of course, negotiations with russia are only possible if... there is an exhaustion of russia, if russia does not want to dictate its terms to us, and since there is no such platform now, no negotiations between russia and ukraine are foreseen either in the near or in the distant future. there may be some negotiations on a temporary ceasefire, but for this, too, it is necessary to reach a certain level of exhaustion of both belligerents parties in addition to russia and ukraine, in the context of the end of the russian-ukrainian war, which parties and which states still have the greatest influence? if we speak for example. however, it is clear that the united states of america, which is a key player in the history of nato, is the main ally of ukraine. what other

states can influence it on a large scale? none, because the states of the global south cannot influence russia, that is why they are convinced that the success of russia in the war with ukraine is the success of the west in the fight against the west, so that they have no special influence, whatever they they didn't tell the russians there, they haven't, and by the way, putin will demonstrate his independence in political approaches in this region when, contrary to his... strategic partnership with china, he builds his own relations with north korea, vietnam or india, with the leaders , whom he met very recently, this is also a serious warning to beijing that it does not have any real opportunities to influence moscow, but there is a desire to influence. this is one moment, another moment, about which we can also say with complete peace of mind, this is what allies affect this situation only when they help ukraine. the economic sanctions of the allies are very important, but we ... see that the russian economy has withstood these sanctions, even the most hellish, that in fact we see

the creation of an alternative economy, the economy of the global south, with which the economy of the west actively cooperates, and we live with you in this way in a strange situation: the west applies sanctions from hell, so to speak, to russia or iran, and at the same time intensively cooperates with china or india, which in turn cooperate intensively with russia and iran, and thus it is a closed circle in which an authoritarian state can feel relatively comfortable. if the west tries to curb its aggressive activity, that's all for you, so the special influence is exclusively the help of ukraine in confronting the russian federation in the coming years of the russian-ukrainian war. thank you very much. vitaliy, who joined and analyzed what we were talking about. vitaly portnikov, journalist, publicist and columnist of radio svoboda, guest of our broadcast. this is a project freedom morning. i thank you for your activity in the chat, many of your comments, share this video with your friends, acquaintances, subscribe to radio liberty platforms. this is important in order for quality content to be popularized by a large audience. my name is oleg galiv, the entire

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collected 35 00, the day before yesterday 41 00, if i'm not mistaken. on monday there was a record 97 00, i understand that this record was precisely because we were all in a state of shock, in a state of numbness, in a state of anger, and in some way we tried to stabilize ourselves and stabilized ourselves precisely with the help of donations, after like the russians made such a terrible shelling of ukraine, but i hope that this anger against the muscovites, you still have it and it will manifest itself in... donations for those who are fighting with the muscovites. on your screens, monobank is on the right, if you face the screen, privatbank is on the left, so join us while we talk with our guests, qr codes also remain, and you have the opportunity to contribute to the fact that there are fewer muscovites on our land. well, in the meantime, we will add to the conversation oksana savchuk, people's deputy of ukraine, ms.

oksano, good afternoon, greetings, good morning and to you, actually, mrs. oxano. let's talk about the conversations of this week, they are not fresh, not new, but they continue, it is about the fact that they can change the government in ukraine, and zelensky does not like the slyness, it tires him, as ukrainian truth sources claim, and now he is treated like valery zaluzhnyi in the last months of his command, that this is how, no matter what the scumbag says, it only causes sadness, sadness and irritation. on our leader , president volodymyr zelenskyi, that's it they also say that toxic yermak is also toxic, well, this is again quoting the ukrainian truth and... it constantly exposes shmegal in an unfavorable light. it's as if they say that such and such events seem to be happening in our beloved serpentarium. ms.

oksano, what does the healthy, healthiest body of ukraine, the parliament, think about this matter, i mean the healthiest of all governmental and power structures, think about this matter, after all, the decision is final one way or another, and the first one is causal, also only for the parliament, are there preambles to the change? is it is it even legally possible during martial law, and what kind of government should there be in such a case, which would be suitable for all of us? well, look, first of all, i want to say that such conversations are really taking place now, this is probably due to the fact that a difficult autumn awaits, difficult moments await, which may be in the country, we understand, and in the end the situation with .. the population with the fact that it has less funds, prices have risen, it is very tangible and very visible, therefore it is very important that, if

the government changes in our country, and this is possible, all possible, then who will be in return? you understand, now the principle is that we need a lot of ministers who do not have... their own opinion, and are just a screen of those who do a lot behind their backs, and now they are actually talking, well, we see that in fact, and that's why it's very a lot of things don't flow, they also flow in the field of education, they also flow in the economy, in infrastructure, but imagine the time of war, we still don't have a person responsible for infrastructure, and the cabinet of ministers calmly divides 2.4 billion hryvnias for roads and which will be driveways are made there, that is, in fact, we understand that the situation is already extremely deadlocked, and we would like those

people who will come to be professionals, but the question is whether really professional people will want to come, because if they want to come, they want to come on their own to make decisions according to the strategy that would be drawn, they want to bear the answer'. in our case, they will not be allowed to do so, and therefore there cannot be professional and at the same time non -independent ministers, that is why we have such a situation today, you know, i just want to raise such a point here, heard about the fact that the bloomberg agency is supposedly writing about it, that they are supposedly preparing for the second presidential election. peace summit, there is hope that russia will be there already, but nevertheless, deputy lavov said there that russia will not be there, he already said about it there, there are some rumors that china and russia seem to be preparing a separate

summit of their own for the end a year already after trump's election, as they hope, this is all very well, but there are other opinions that at the moment neither ukraine nor russia are ready to sit down for a real a peace treaty, and this means that it is possible ... the war will end just as the first world war ended there at one time, when they were simply exhausted, in particular, first of all, germany, and somehow it all stopped, how will we understand that this war is it ending? where, where, where is that moment, relatively speaking, a decrease, for example, in the intensity of hostilities, when we say, well, that's it, it's time to cancel, there, i don't know, martial law, when we understand that we should have elections or open . dons, or, well, i, i, i this, these are not simple questions, this is a question of that the president's presidential term, for example, has already ended, eh, and this means

that as long as he has the trust of the people, and it decreases with each month, then he is in principle legitimate, but when the trust drops below there 50%, 40, 30, 20, the question of the legitimacy of the president will arise, the normal way to answer this is a joint... i don't know, a military cabinet, where all representatives of all forces are included, it is absolutely obvious in my opinion, i saw it on the example of israel, is there even the slightest a chance that our politicians will have enough sense for such unifying step, on the basis of the parliament that exists now, ms. oksano, your opinion, well, i don't see the possibility of such a union yet, it doesn't look like it to me from any side, but... but if we read the constitution, then we see that it is clearly written there that it cannot be changed, there can be no elections in time of war, on... our task today

is to face a very difficult opponent and we really have a very difficult war and we see how the enemy constantly is being modernized, so we really need one, you know, professional the body that will make a decision quickly, because simply, look, i will model about it, i understood your opinion, i understood what you were saying, i think our viewers agree with you 100%. if the war, for example, in this state, perhaps with less intensity , will continue for another, for example, five, 10 years, that is, for 10 years shahedi geran will fly, there is also something else, for 10 years there will be attempts to break through on the borders or on borders on the front, which is now approximately, what does this mean, we will have 10 years of martial law, we will sit next to zelenskyi for 10 years yarmak and his friends, well, for 10 years, everyone is not friends, because there is some, you know, every

process has some of... you look, even in fact, how much has changed in us too, and personnel moments, and the worst thing is that many ministries are still not really headed, and this is a problem, and for some reason no one cares about it, but i am still convinced that this year there will be no such special changes, maybe this year we will draw conclusions that we need the region a lot of things to change, but it... you know, it hadn't come to that at that time piku, this is my personal opinion that everything will change tomorrow, that is, it is already natural that there is more dissatisfaction, there are more challenges that need to be overcome, there are more needs that these should be people who should understand and want to do it, but there is still such a point when i don't see irreversible moments in the coming months of this year, in the end, well, thank you very much

for your opinion, i... i just also think that you should always prepare in advance for such scenarios, they have to be somehow, well, simply, if the deputies do not think about it and cannot agree in the parliament, ah, in what way then, in principle, can we be ready for future crises, if they will happen, and they will certainly happen, because there will be some difficult ones, i say, simple questions, for example, the end of the war, it is unclear, well, we we can hope for a miracle that russia will wobble on... its clay feet and crumble, i don’t know there, rioters will rise up, because they have huge losses there, someone has already died in almost every family, i don’t know there, kabardino-balkaria and nalchik will announce themselves as an independent state, they will march with troops on the brain, and if this nothing will happen, simply, well, simply, if not the parliament, then who, in principle, should care about democracy and the future of ukraine, who? well, ours is a very different parliament, you

understand, the only way out is if... this parliament really has at least some real chance of gaining an alternative number of votes, that is, and now these votes are, well , a maximum of 120, this is at best, more of them does not become, and may even be even less and until this system is changed, remember the simple verkhovna rada of 1989, there were only 100, 130-150 of them there, but they did a lot, in them it turned out, ms. oksano, they are well done. and i think that you are also well done, thank you for the conversation, oksana savchuk, people's deputy of ukraine was with us. dear friends, the next hour of our marathon is coming to an end, the next one will start now and it will start with the release of news, our kateryna shirokopoyas is already appearing on your screens and has a fresh selection of what happened in ukraine and the world, katya, you have a word. greetings olesya, greetings andria, in a moment i will tell you about the consequences of the night attack on ukraine, on ukraine, as well as

ukrainian legion in poland, i ask our viewers to wait and not switch. news time on spresso tv channel, kateryna shiropoyas works in the studio. night enemy attack. the occupiers launched artillery shells across ukraine. rattle ukrainian defenders shot down all six russian drones, the air force command reports. they were destroyed in mykolaiv, khmelnytskyi, lviv and ivano-frankivsk regions. the enemy also hit sumy oblast with two iskander m ballistic missiles launched from kursk oblast. the consequences of the strikes are currently being clarified. one person died and two others were injured due to enemy shelling in the kherson region. during the day, the russians

covered. more than 20 settlements were set on fire, reports said