jubilee by serial number, this is a different decision, you know, they are a kind of half-sixth, but on the other hand, we have to talk about the fact that we plan to continue joining nato, and this is how it will happen, and the main thing is that our allies understood, the formula for peace and security in the world, today it is invested in such concepts that ukraine must win, if we started this war with the fact that ukraine... must not lose to russia, then today i think that nato too, mainly 99% of the participating countries understand that ukraine should win, only one question that our allies have to answer, when? and it is precisely on this occasion that he helps us and works, and i hope that the new head of nato, when he becomes prime minister, mr. rutte, will still make some addition. fresh air, fresh blood

into the activities of this organization, perhaps the time will come, which i personally dream of, when nato will ask for ukraine. the conversation was quite interesting, we talked with serhii brachuk, who is the spokesman of the ukrainian volunteer army south, about what are the most important military events on the peninsula took place during the past week, you are watching the bereber program, it is together in ukrainian translated with crimean tatar, it is a joint project of the tv channel. and the tv channel, i am andrii yanitsky, the host of this project, our program is going on summer vacation, so there will be no appearances in the program in the near future, but we are not saying goodbye to you and hope to see you again, koryushkendje, goodbye, journalist who...

taras berezovyts, a political expert who became a special agent, studied at the armed forces of ukraine in a new project on espresso. the real front is this thorough analysis of major events. reports, comments of leading specialists and experts. analytics from the major of the armed forces. how to understand alarming news and distinguish the truth from the hostile and false. the real front program with taras berezovets every saturday at 21:30 on espresso. vasyl's big broadcast. my name is vasyl zima, this is a big broadcast on the spresso tv channel, two hours of airtime, two hours of your time, my colleagues and i will talk about the most important thing, two hours to learn about the war, about the military, frontline component, serhiy zgurets and what the world is like, yuriy feder is already with me, and it's time to talk about what happened outside of ukraine, yuriy, good evening, two hours to keep up with economic news, time to talk about money during the war oleksandr morchyvka next to me and sports news, i invite yevhen pastukhov to the conversation. two hours in the company of favorite

presenters about cultural news from chechnya, our tv viewer is ready to talk about the presenters in the good evening, which many have become movridnidenko, and she is ready to talk about the weather for this weekend, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, mustafa dzhemilov, the leader of the crimean tatar people is in touch with us, mr. mustafa, i greet you, good day, the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, in the evening at espresso. greetings viewers of espresso, today i am artem lagotenko in the studio with you, and we will talk about ukrainian civilians who are in captivity of the russian federation, as well as about the fate of political prisoners after returning from captivity. with me in the studio, we will talk about this topic with olga skrypnyk, the head of the board of crimea right-wing group. i congratulate you, mrs. olga.

good day. and also with us in the studio will be akhtem cheygos, former political prisoner, people's deputy and first deputy chairman of the committee of the verkhovna rada of ukraine on issues of human rights before the occupation and reintegration of the temporarily occupied territories of ukraine. mr. artem, i congratulate you. glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. i want to start our conversation by understanding how many free ukrainians are in captivity in the russian federation. according to confirmed official data, we are talking about almost 1,700 people, however some public organizations say that this figure reaches 60,000. mrs. ogliu, actually, to begin with, i want to ask you, how can you determine the number of ukrainian civilians who are prisoners in the occupied territories? the main problem, if we are talking about a certain amount. in the fact that russia in

general does not report on these figures, it does not confirm them, it does not admit in principle that it is holding civilians, that is why there is such a big difference in the figures, some of them are based, for example, on the register of missing persons, which are already more than... 30 thousand, and that's it we are talking only about civilians, and it is clear that a large part of them, they are prisoners, in principle, the last figures that were called by the same coordination headquarters were that the language of involuntary prisoners can reach 20 thousand people who are in different places of detention, well, it is clear that it is illegal, that is, in fact, these are people who were kidnapped, that is why there is such a difference in numbers, and each public organization has its own specific registers, who works with these territories, like ours, for example, crimea... defense group but we we document only what can be at least somehow confirmed, and we see that, for example, when they even take the occupiers of our people, kidnapped from the north, to crimea, many of them are in the stage, well, let's say, in such a status of incommendica, russia they are not confirmed either to the ukrainian side, or to the families, or to the red cross there, or to any

international organizations, so actually you and i will not be able to name a final figure, because in principle, russia is simply hiding this figure, mr. akhtem, here is the question for you. .. so what what to do with this, how should we calculate the number of our captured civilians? it is necessary to continue everything that has been done for so many years, because as it is rightly said, it is impossible to monitor every person there, it is tens of thousands of people, and many of them we do not know and cannot monitor, it is also no less important that the role depends on themselves civilians... who got into this or that situation, and besides, of course there are those who try to take advantage of this situation, uh, no, there is not enough, let's say,

in uh, enough there, let's say, reasons for to be considered there,... uh, it's our politically connected, or politically politically motivated connected, because politically motivated is, it's an even larger layer of people who are under repression, so this work, well , unfortunately, can only be more so, widely conducted. public organizations, and the state? the state, it works according to a specific scheme, that is, there is a specific person, there is specific specific data, and it records them, well

, it is impossible to apply any mechanisms, i recently heard a story, i will now ... as far as i can check, we have the commission at mintot, yes, which ee, which recognizes some or the other as political prisoners so that the state can ee help, yes, and there are some, as i was told, some thousands of lists are given there, i just heard about it now, but i will check it, no, so for now we will assume that this is not illegal information, that is , there are still such and such

moments in this matter, i would say where it is clearly defined... this or that person is a hostage, or a prisoner, it is not so simple. actually, ms. olga, you have been doing it for quite some time on this subject, and as far as i know, you also talk about the fact that it is very difficult to determine and prove to a person to be in captivity, and supposedly there are sometimes cases when a person tries to do. pretending that she was in captivity to get some kind of compensation, can you somehow comment on mr. akhtem's words now? well, i'll start by saying that we really have the whole problem since the 14th year, actually, when crimea was occupied and when the occupation of donbas began. if

people could find at least some documents in the crimea through there are the same criminal cases of the russian federation or the illegality of the courts, that is , there were some verdicts that we do not recognize, but this is confirmation, then the situation has significantly... worsened for civilians, especially after the 22nd year, because we have some new ones occupied territories, where, in principle, the russian federation is now there, they seem to have built some kind of judicial system, but mostly civilians, when they catch them, they... do not give any documents that can confirm this, that is, when people are kept in torture chambers, torture, abused, raped, it is clear that the russians will not write a certificate about it and will not hand it over to the person, so the problem is that if you confirm the capture, you still have to provide at least something to confirm it, those who, for example , have convictions or some criminal cases, they provide at least these documents and it is enough to confirm, but still most of those who apply, they actually receive. this status, we are talking about the commission, which establishes the fact of deprivation of liberty as a result of russian aggression, it has existed for many years

years, but since the 22nd year it was restarted, because the relevant law came into full force, which guarantees the protection of just such people deprived of their freedom as part of aggression, and i am actually a member of the commission, but not from the state, but from public organizations, we have four non-governmental organizations there, which work in the same way as we do directly in the occupied territories, collecting information as much as possible, all state bodies and... it is the commission that establishes all this information, therefore, for the most part, we have positive decisions in terms of what for the most part, the commission confirms just the opposite, but it must be understood that not only civilians but also prisoners of war apply to this commission, the commission considers both of them, so why, because the law in our country defines several categories, the first is prisoners of war, they have the right also to establish this fact of deprivation of liberty, to receive appropriate assistance from the state and civil, as for civilians, we have two groups, the first, which mr.... mentioned it political prisoners, how often it happens, they are called, but this people who are precisely in consequence

for their activities, for their activities , journalists, human rights defenders, for example, there were people who collected some information about violations of people's rights and so on, or, for example, they are crimean tatar activists, members of the crimean tatar people's midjlis, and that is why they were imprisoned prisoners, that's what we usually call them, but in the media it's like a political prisoner, one subcategory is a civilian, the second is, in general, in principle, what is currently obscured, especially... in the occupied territories, these are any civilians who are captured by the russian federation, in order to force or this person, or, for example, the state or some bodies to take some actions, well, that is, in essence, when they grab our people, torture them there for connections with the armed forces of ukraine or with the sbu, and so on, demand to admit something, or in generally encourage ukraine, for example, well, in the future it can be an incentive for negotiations, yes, certain exchanges, something else, that is, we are dealing with a terrorist state and... the russian federation can easily arrest people and increase these lists for some of its wishes , which she has

usually this is something that always harms us, so we have to understand that we have just these thousands and thousands of people, and it is very difficult for some of them, even after being released from captivity, to get at least some documents that can confirm this, so actually it is important, if we talk about what the state can do, it is the security service of ukraine, they try their best to investigate and collect information, including from the occupied territories. therefore, we advise everyone to submit their appeal, both to relatives, to those with whom someone is being held captive, and to those who came out of captivity, contact the security service, they work normally, they really interrogate, that is, it is not some kind of terrible interrogation, i understand that people survived captivity and it is very difficult for them to go back to some authorities there and testify about something, but the security service in this regard, ukraine usually helps on the contrary, they have information on other people, they can check with other witnesses and so on and so forth, it's the same thing as contacting the national police. for example, from my experience, including work in the commission, i can to say that, for example, the kherson region,

after they liberated kherson and another part, yes, our armed forces of ukraine, investigators are very actively working there, and they are really trying to find out who, where, in which cat house was sitting, and therefore, when you contact the national police, even if it is difficult for you to find, as a person who was in captivity, confirmation, other people have already been interviewed, they could see you, they can confirm it and so on, so there is indeed a certain percentage of people , which address the... mission, but they simply cannot provide anything at all, and then the commission asks to collect more information, to apply again, and in principle, the number of times you can apply is unlimited. it often happens that people who just heard about it, just applied, wrote, for example, just an empty statement, just recognize me as a prisoner, yes, but no documents, no explanation were provided, then , in principle, either public organizations get in touch, or of the ministry of integration explains: please expand your application, submit something additional, people again and again and beast again. and more rarely you can find other cases, which i think mr.

ehtem mentioned, is that people sometimes try to take advantage of this situation, knowing that establishing the fact of deprivation of liberty also provides an opportunity to receive financial assistance, it is a one-time payment 100 00 hryvnias per year. and that's why it sometimes happens that people really turn and write about the fact that they were supposedly in captivity, but in fact there are no confirmations from public organizations. law enforcement agencies and a person, no one could confirm it. i think that there are still such cases, from what i see, even according to the practice of the commission, they are minimal, but we understand that the longer the war lasts. all the more, there may be such people, precisely because when the commission says that at least some information about the confirmation of captivity is needed, it is precisely in order to establish whether a person was really in captivity, because after all , there may be cases when a person simply wants to take advantage of the situation, although she herself was not a prisoner. mr. akhtem, i wanted to ask you as a former political prisoner and as a representative

profile committee, and what advice could you give to the relatives of... captured ukrainian civilians, what should they do so that later it would be easier to prove that their loved ones are in captivity, more, i think, the main thing is to use informational opportunities, i.e. relatives, relatives do not always have the opportunity to document... this is to take these pieces of paper and then disclose them, but when a person is caught, there is such a factor, first, the first term, there is time, relatives generally try not to say anything, yes, and it will probably go that way,

that's why it doesn't work like that, and you have to give publicity, and then... here, and public organizations, first of all, they start working on this information, yes, and this, in my opinion, is such a fast, single tool, all these 10 years, but what we are talking about the sbu or our other there, the police, or other institutions, they still - already... after some time they are included in this work, and they rely more on er, some there facts, documents, but they appear much later, or not at all , so i still recommend it to everyone

relatives to turn to our public associations, because it is more effective and... most importantly, and you can say everything that you cannot say at that moment, officially, it is, it is a human factor, but it must be taken into account . on june 28 , 10 ukrainian civilians were freed from russian captivity, among them two priests of the greek catholic church, an art critic. olena pekh and deputy chairman of the mejlis of the crimean tatar people nariman dzhelal. i now suggest watching direct speech. i am already in ukraine. i have such the guys were nice to meet.

i did not lose hope for a day that it would end someday, although internally i was ready to endure the entire unfair term that was assigned to me in the occupation court of crimea. the most important thing for us was to know that ukraine continues to fight for its own freedom and independence. and this hope, er, this resistance, he inspired us also not to succumb to any provocations that were there. such inspiring moments. the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyi, commenting on this liberation, stated that in the exchange of prisoners, the vatican actually helped. and with this in mind,

i have a question for our guests, and first of all, ms. oglya, for you. how actively our western partners and international organizations are involved in the liberation of our civilians. well, as far as international organizations are concerned, it seems to me that the 22nd year was just such a peak of disappointment. not only did most of the organizations not get involved at all , even fulfilling their mandate, many of them simply ran away. moreover, they even took with them the equipment that could help save people here, for example there armored cars, and there are bulletproof vests, helmets. and everything else, unfortunately, it was just a shock to us, especially when we were trying to help some people there to get them out of kyiv region, and it was strange, in general, to see that knowing their mandate, they did not do it, so... indeed , there is a lot of distrust in international organizations, but still, for example, the red cross works on some cases and on some civilians, for example, it is possible to get at least some

letter for places of detention in the russian federation, but in terms of direction, in terms of exchanges the negotiation process, usually international organizations are not involved, because their mandate does not include political actions, but they are important in the context of documenting there, confirming that there is a problem and so on, so anyway we, for example, orientate... relatives in the same way to appeal to international organizations so that they also enter in their registers, and in their reports and so on, because these are, in principle, certain international documents that all other countries refer to, so it is more realistic to understand that political actions, that is, negotiations , we we see that, for example, the participation of the vatican helped to return 10 civilians, well, as we were told, that is why the involvement of certain countries is really important, but among these countries, especially partner countries, especially those that provide weapons to ukraine. it is clear that it is unlikely that russia will go to negotiations, so they can look for other countries that, for example, do not have such direct partnership relations with ukraine, but they

have good relations with the russian federation, so this way is also possible , also took place, and the peace summit took place, and so did you and i we know that there was a separate closed meeting in which the obbutsman of ukraine, dmytro lubinets, also participated, and he said that... a number of countries have expressed that they offer their direct participation and their platforms for negotiations, and i i hope that this is not the last release of civilians, where we all rejoiced at the return, in particular of nariman dzhelala, who was imprisoned back in the 21st year, precisely because he took part in the crimean platform, which was started then, and we believe that the countries of the crimean platform, there are more than 60 of them to be exact can participate in the release of our civilians, therefore, in principle... and for us , the most realistic are these political negotiations with the russian federation, but again, this does not exclude the fact that today russia released ten people, tomorrow it captured another 100. until the 22nd year, before the full-scale

invasion of all crimean and political prisoners, those who were imprisoned in crimea, only eight people were returned as part of exchanges, only eight, among them mr. akhtem cheygos, who was returned then just for with the participation of turkey, but... these are only eight people, and now more than 200 of them will play, this is only for crimea, what we know from the political affairs of crimea, so actually, unfortunately, as long as the occupied territories are occupied, we do not have any guarantees , that no new hostages and new prisoners will appear, but the process is going on, and this is the first such exclusively civilian exchange, because before that, after the 22nd, civilians, if they were returned, were only as part of the exchange of prisoners of war, but these were very isolated cases, that is, literally one, two, three people, several women were returned, and... russia did not return people en masse, we only have those civilians who, after being captured, after they were let in, after torture, were released, and they independently reached

the pin-controlled part of ukraine , but so that it was precisely within the framework of the exchange of some official negotiations with the russian federation, then in principle this is the first such exclusively civilian yes, exclusively the return of civilians without prisoners of war. mr. akhtem, i actually wanted yours. to hear the opinion, because, as ms. olga rightly noted, you have been returned to ukraine with the participation of istanbul, i want to ask you, as a people's deputy, how lively the discussion with governments is, at the inter-parliamentary level with other countries , on the issue of the return of ukrainian civilians, can you tell us something about this? "this is a difficult question, to be honest, now our partners in which institutions, the question is not

the mandate, but the question is that they have not yet developed such a tool that would be effective for putin, because only he decides who to give, i don't know who, no, who is more there, there are many mediators, but..." the knowledge that is considered when defining the state, it is democratic, how powerful it is, it is

human rights, yes, it is so fundamental the recognition of this path of democracy, but for some reason, for some reason it is still so, for some reason it is very difficult to explain to partners, that a person who is bound for his views, for his, for his protests, and at the same time this, this state is a terrorist, the leader of this... state is the main criminal, for some reason so easily signs multibillion-dollar contracts with states, who say they respect human rights as fundamental rights, democracy, yes, democracy of the state, so we work to the extent that, i would say, it is sufficiently active at all levels. i do not think

that this applies to the fact that, for example, china, which is so, that is, there is no country in the world that would not be somehow involved in this great war, yes, because it is also technological, not only that direct, yes with weapons, yes, as we all are... we are used to tanks, there are missiles, but they work on something, there is a technological factor in which china is also involved, that is, i do not think that the question here is such of the neutrality of the state, its influence, yes, er, first of all, this, our, ours is such a monotonous work and where we, er, very relevantly

show er... deeply show the actions of russia in relation to our citizens, and so far well , let's assume there are thousands of civilians, yes, i won't talk about the 280 statistic there, because i know it's much more, but you know, it 's hard to say for now. why are there constant negotiations, i mean with our partners, friends of ukraine, but for some reason these questions are primarily put into dependence from the resolution of these issues before putin for some of his interests, for some reason it does not work, i will never forget when we

met with boris... yes, a great friend of ukraine, yes, do you remember? but when we met, i frankly told him, only there for a year, i resigned and said, i'm just begging you, don't take part in this shameful world football championship, it's not necessary to do it at all, because putin will use it among his own. kind of population to show what he is, he is influential, he said, how is it possible, we are the ancestors football, we can't, it's politics and sport separately, yes, and then they were quickly relegated to one of the finals there, and didn't go further, but the principle itself, yes, and then it became clear to him too, that is, how much more

there will be. people suffer, yes, this is our blood, when everyone, including this china, or others, will understand that such principles as justice, international law cannot be traded, this is a rhetorical question, but this is the reality today . that the government, the state, and politicians are different, and our public associations are, well, very different are actively working on this issue, this is, let's say, a guarantee that what we will achieve, yes, we will, and we give hope, today i met nariman, and he also tells

what i once felt, yes, what hope. ..