do they strike with guided bombs or missiles? the shadow of the already mentioned us presidential elections in november adds to the uncertainty regarding the future of the alliance. donald trump previously did not rule out the possibility of the united states withdrawing from nato. now insists on the need to normalize relations with putin's russia, the same one that the alliance has recognized as the main threat. the republican candidate still promises peace in 24 hours, which was reiterated by hungarian prime minister orbán, who took advantage of his visit to the usa to visit trump for the second time in his estate in florida. peace mission 5:0. it was an honor to visit trump today in maralaga. we discussed ways to achieve peace. the good news of the day, he's going to fix it. finally, about words and wording, because they matter, at least in diplomacy. in the final declaration. at the last moment of this summit

, they added a phrase about the irreversibility of ukraine's membership in the alliance, despite the fact that, according to the media, biden was initially against it and wanted to limit himself to the wording about the pre-membership bridge. this is definitely positive news. even at the infamous summit in bucharest 16 years ago, ukraine was denied an action plan for membership. then they said that the door to the alliance remained open for her. now in front of these seemingly open doors... a bridge has appeared, how long it is, hardly anyone can say, but there is no other way than to walk along it, hoping for the best in ukraine . congratulations to the viewers of the espresso tv channel, the saturday political club. my eter and we traditionally

talk with vitaly portnikov and andriy smolyay about the most important events of the week, the most relevant and, of course, those that concern all our viewers in ukraine and abroad. let's start, of course, with probably the most tragic event, the one that started this week, unfortunately, with the shelling of kyiv, the shelling. kryvyi rih, zhytomyr region, donetsk region. russians massively attacked our country. unfortunately, there are many dead, in kyiv alone, 33 people have been officially reported dead, dozens of victims and wounded. in fact, a terrorist act, analogues of which are very few in the modern civilized world. and we will start first bloc, of course from... this event, we are not

military experts, we will not discuss any technical issues of this attack, but it is clear that this attack does not just have military objectives, this attack has certain geopolitical dimensions, geopolitical objectives, and about we will talk with mr. vitaly, and not only about this, but about many other events, many others. topics over the next two hours, so join in. mr. vitaly, this event, a terrible event that took place on monday, an attack on kyiv, an attack on other cities, it is clear that it has a certain geopolitical dimension, and it is clear that russia did it not in order to achieve some specific military goals, not for that.

not in order to once again demonstrate something traditionally, what it was and should we expect the repetition of such completely insane terrorist acts on the part of the russian occupier, well, i adhere to the opinion that we are simply observing, i am already talking about i was saying this, a new stage of military confrontation, i would even say a new special operation, i er... i emphasized again since the beginning of this war, that putin does not consider events as a war, because he thinks in the category of chekists, and it is absolutely no coincidence that he generally calls all his wars special operations, he has no wars at all, such a person who is not a military man in principle, but he knows on sabotage and terrorist operations, operates in the logic of these special operations, and russia's war against... ukraine can be said

not even from 2022, but from 2014. this is a cascade of such special operations. and now we are basically in a new one. special operation, which can be called, conditionally, of course, forcing ukraine to make peace on russian terms. that is, in fact, putin may consider that he now has the need to suspend the war, of course, only on favorable terms for himself, of course, not for a long time, for a year, for two, in order to gather his strength, to gather political opportunities, to find some new economic opportunities to try to cancel, at least part of the sanctions, or to prevent the confiscation of russian assets, one can analyze for a long time exactly what motives he is guided by, but it is absolutely obvious that in this situation he

may want such a truce, but again, we know the terms of this truce, ukraine must withdraw its troops from the donetsk, luhansk, kherson, zaporizhia regions, ukraine has it... you are talking about its neutral status, go to demilitarization, because any other suspension of the war, it may seem like a military political defeat for putin, even if you imagine the end of the war, where the troops stop at the contact lines, the current contact lines and other lines of confrontation, then it does not suit him, how to convince the ukrainian leadership and ukrainian society that it is necessary to accept putin's terms, when ukrainian society, unlike putin, has completely different eyes. from the end of the war, this is the restoration of the territorial integrity of ukraine, the continuation of the path of ukrainian euro-atlantic integration, of course no demilitarization, and of course, no one even thinks that the war can end, under the conditions of which ukrainian troops will leave

these territories that they have already liberated, or never surrendered to the enemy, you understand that putin's conditions mean leaving kherson and zaporizhzhia, and not only that, but also kramatorsk, with of all these cities, it means that he is doing , first of all, he is making certain diplomatic efforts, it is precisely in this idea of ​​coercion for peace that the tour of the prime minister of hungary , viktor orbán, is really such a boat trip, kyiv, moscow, beijing, washington, marolalago, in principle orman talked to all the key players. in this story, and putin demonstrates that he is ready to talk to people who want peace, just not on some of ukraine's terms and not in some peace summit format, but the way it looks from his point of view,

one more important point, this is the bombing, of course, if you don't agree, it will get worse and worse, you have a chance now come to an agreement with us while we are still, so to speak , more or less moderate for you, but it will only get worse, every day of the war worsens your situation, you will delay, there will be nothing to agree on at all, you have no infrastructure will be, in the winter you will freeze, die, and by the way, this is what orbán said that he believes that the next months of the war will be the most brutal and bloody than the previous ones, he drew this conclusion from a conversation with putin, huh. well, here's the answer to your question, of course, putin will try to force ukrainian society to face russian reality and understand that resistance is hopeless. by the way, i would add one more thing to this, this is a post on social networks

of the former president of the russian federation, deputy chairman of the security council of russia, dmitry medvedev. mr. medvidev said clearly that yes... we can end the war now, of course, if they admit their defeat, but we will come back to destroy all of ukraine, so this is also a signal not to us, but to this chauvinistic part of the russian establishment that can tell putin, but why did we start this war, for the sake of some unfortunate four regions, well , this is ridiculous, our task is to restore the soviet union, we should reach uzhgorod, and instead we reached some donetsk, luhansk and kherson. action, well, they say to such people, no, we we'll get to ushgorad, just wait, we need to take a break now for one reason or another. i think that it will continue like this until putin realizes that this operation of his does not

end in anything, that ukraine does not accept these conditions. then a new special operation will begin. let's see, there were a lot of them. and ukrainian society. in your opinion, how does he react to all these things, we see that on the one hand yes, and by the way, i forgot, there were also posts by ukrainian bloggers, even people's deputies. who ran for office, i do of this kind, i am saying that if we are talking about ukrainian society, then at least they are trying to promote informationally, media-wise, what is supposedly a part of ukrainian society, and, you see, such influencers, bloggers, people with an audience of millions, deputies, of course, what about... those political forces and those deputies who

promoted completely russian narratives until february 24, 2022, unfortunately, no one punished these deputies, they still go to the verkhovna rada of ukraine, they still press buttons, in everything is fine with them, but these are people who the servant of the people party, well, there are those who are from the servant of the people, there are those who are from the conditionally former opposition platform for life, that is, people who, conditionally speaking, do not bear any responsibility. their words and actions, but less so, here is this, at least, this is an effort, at least a demonstration that a part of ukrainian society does not want to accept these terms of putin, this is really the participation of these persons in a special operation, well, at least, if we are talking about this of these deputies, it is most likely true, but there are, for example, bloggers, who are now making excuses, saying that... it didn't happen, or it is true that a certain part of ukrainian society has such a point of view after certain

actions, which we see now on the screens behind us, well, people react differently to challenges, someone believes that if such a situation occurs, it is better to capitulate and live in peace , you understand, there is another illusion, which also needs to be talked about in detail, many people have, by the way, it existed until 2022. this illusion that you can come to an agreement with the russians, and by the way, this was the main idea of ​​the 2019 presidential election campaign, to end the war in his head, to negotiate with putin, the ukrainian authorities do not want to end the war, by the way, now the same thing that volodymyr zelenskyy said about petro poroshenko is saying about volodymyr zelenskyi, such a political boomerang has returned, which should have been expected, but still this the illusion of many ukrainians, no matter what, is not a virgin. so, it does not happen, because there is an idea that if there is such a horror, then

it is better to just change the flag, well, in the end, what is changing, well, the russians will come, well, they are bad, but they will not be here there is nothing to fire at, they will change the flag, there will be a tricolor instead of a blue-yellow flag, if i am a simple person, what does it matter to me in the end, it is important for me that my family live peacefully, that they are not bombed, that they are not shelled, it will be. .. to the citizens of the russian federation, well, people became citizens of the russian federation, he is in the crimea, in the donbas and nothing, they went to russia, they live peacefully there, no one kills them, and that's all. there is such a point of view, but i have to say, let it sound cynical for these people, that it is too late to drink borjomi, why? indeed, on february 24, 2022, vladimir putin had an idea. that he will parade to kyiv, change the flag here, and these wrong

russians who live on the territory of malorossiya, novarossia and some other russia there will become correct and will just be another part, so to speak, of his electorate, all the more so it is worth reminding that until 2014, vladimir putin was the most popular foreign politician in the eyes of most ukrainians, and then he was oleksandr lukashenko, wonderful people, we just don't have enough of them, so to speak. so and so things, precisely on the assessment of the situation, that ukrainians are simply waiting for russian liberators, and they are being betrayed by their presidents, first petro poroshenko, and then volodymyr zelenskyi, and the idea of ​​blitzkrieg was based, and the idea of ​​this parade, which was supposed to take place on khreshchatyk in march 2022, was based year, but when ukrainian troops passed through the territory of ukraine, it immediately became clear that the advantage. the majority of ukrainians do not perceive them as some kind of liberators, this was also visible in the north

of ukraine, and by the way, from bucha, it was is visible in the south of the country, remember the demonstrations of kherson residents, who in the first days went directly to russian tanks with slogans kherson is ukraine, that is, it turned out that ukrainians do not consider themselves russians, and by the way , there was a convincing example that when the occupier... launched into schools of the occupied part of the zaporizhzhia region, the question is what language do you want to teach your children, and from their point of view, this is the russian language. federation, the vast majority of parents chose the ukrainian language for their children, not russian, i.e it turned out that these people, whom the russians themselves consider to be russians, consider themselves to be ukrainians, which basically means, it means by and large, that the population is disloyal, and thus this population

must be got rid of, and basically this tactic is to get rid of the assigned population territories, replaced by yoloya. population, this is the state policy of moscow since the time of the first moscow grand dukes, that is, since the time of the first annexation, the first annexation was ryazan, the ryazan people were expelled, the muscovites were settled, not expelled, they were cut out, probably, we will be honest there, we don’t know, this chronicle says that they were expelled, and i think that this is a softened wording, so nothing, people who think that they will be able to... the russians have no peace except the grave or exile, that is, the options will be very simple: mostly the majority of people will be expelled, a large number of people will be killed, those who will remain will be at the bottom of the social scale, because they will always have the mark that people in the ukrainian ssr had, who continued to live here during the nazi occupation, they will always be

wrote in their questionnaires that they lived on occupied territory, they were to blame, no, they were left here by the soviet army, but that was it. part of the questionnaire for them and their children, and they were still at the bottom of the social pyramid, so it will be with those who had the misfortune to be a citizen of independent ukraine, that is, someone will be filtered, someone will be killed, someone will be imprisoned, someone will simply be with the profession of some programmer or teacher there is to clean the yard, and we... to let him out of here, because he will not be let out of here yet, as an unlucky a person, just a passport will not be issued abroad and a citizen of the russian federation. if someone thinks that i am scaring someone there, then i have to remind you that this has been the case here for 100 years in a row, but ukrainians cannot hear those who cannot speak, i mean the killed and exiled, although the exiled can

talk somewhere with ukrainians who have lived in america since the 20s, 30s, 40s 20. a meeting in canada, er, in principle , the ukrainian ssr is a country whose population consisted of those who won the civil war, and from those who were intimidated and who could not leave here, and these people have always lived here, so to speak, well, they lived, so nothing happened to them, and so it can happen to us, but you now not in this role, dear compatriots, because there were people who were supporters of other political views. relatively speaking, in 1920, there were ukrainian nationalists, ugh, ukrainian liberals, the bourgeoisie, who were not allowed anywhere due to class, expelled, shot, all these people were simply destroyed, or expelled, or once again they were dragged to the very bottom of society, because they wrote that they were from

the exploiting classes, it was, it was, a large number of these people died in the repressions of the 20s, then... the repressions of the 30s began, where they began die people who were supporters of the coalition with the bolsheviks, activists of the ukrainian communist party of borotists and the jewish communist party, well , the previous ukrainian nationalists and zionists had already been shot and expelled at that time, they were communists simply no no disloyal, yes, ukrainian and jewish, well , those who did not want to see russia here, well, they were also shot again with their children, with their wives, the children there were sent to orphanages of these... they were shot, but then the ukrainian bolsheviks passed, time, their line, in the 37th year they were all wiped out, three members of the central committee of the communist party of the bolsheviks of ukraine, three in a row, they were all shot, no one was left, until before that these people participated in the famine, how they were shot, and then they were also destroyed millions of people, millions, and then you, who is it

prepared, those who praised it were all also destroyed en masse, this is for you... not some conventional stories about the fact that there is such a writer or some member of the central committee of the party, this is a mass death, millions of people, and who is left here in the end ? well, first of all, there were those who survived, there were not so many of them, and they were all scared again, then a huge number of them died even in the second world war, during the german occupation from the famine of the 50s, so and there were still people left who were transported from russia, it is not politically correct to say that. but we are fine we understand where the industrial agglomeration came from here in areas where there was always a rural population, the rural population was ukrainian, well, mostly ukrainian, the population of the towns was jewish-polish, relatively speaking, where did all these people later find out that everything became russian , and by the way, i’ll say more, it

wasn’t even only during the bolsheviks, how it happened, i’m curious that the only city with a majority ukrainian population in the entire territory of ukraine until 1917 was the city of poltava, and it was another city with the overwhelming majority of the jewish population, the city of berdychiv, in all other cities. there were russians, where did they come from in general, they came, they didn’t live here until the pereyasniv council and beyond, they were all brought here, and all these ukrainians were pushed out into villages, into small towns, further marginalized, they also thought that he negotiates with the russians, and by the way, if you say oh, this is a special attitude towards ukrainians, no, when ivan the terrible captured the city of kazan and the kazan khanate, an order was specifically issued that tatars could not live in cities, only in... and do you think kazan was a huge city at the time, where did this urban population go, it was cut down, expelled, raped, robbed, it was beautiful, as this russian blogger wrote, who later

died from the statuette, everything as we love, so if someone thinks that he will wait here for the liberators, or simply not the liberators, but those who will simply perceive him as a loyal citizen of the russian federation, let him not... he is creating some illusions for himself, this is not a suitcase, a train station russia is a suitcase, a ravine, a grave, this is the wording, there is no escape, a direct path to death, maybe someone will be lucky, someone, someone there will live to be 85 or 90 years old, cleaning up various feces there. the new owners of life, if they don't die from the heat, you know, it gets hot somehow, it's hard to clean in a day, but they will have to, but they will be single people, that's why i think that ukrainians

have no choice, because for russia, this entire population , which is left here, all these 28 million, regardless of what their political views are, why they want to continue the war or stop, they are ... disloyal, nobody plays it will not happen, this is the absolute classic standard policy of russia, always, always, remember, they occupied the baltic countries, three, what they started to do there, industrialization, well, just as well, take out, destroy the local population, take out the territories, destroy and replace, replace it that's all, mr. vitali, you said that this is... to some extent not politically correct, i will respond here that it is actually a story, there is nothing politically incorrect here, because we are talking about clear historical facts that are written in all

possible and impossible books . please, take the history of ukraine of the 20th century, read it. you can even open a map of ukraine. you know, a long, long time ago, when i first started researching how the ethnic... composition of the population of ukraine changed, there are historical maps, we can take maps from the beginning of the 20th century, then take maps, the census took place in the 20s, 30s , then we take maps already from the 50s, and we see how a share, how, how, in different cities of ukraine, some just disappear for some reason after 10,20 years, others appear, and as of 1991 , when we already take maps... in the 90s, we see that the russians, the soviet government, well, in fact, russia, in many regions of our country simply

changed the population, everything is completely different there than it was 40 years before, 50 years, i taught you from the 70s to the 90s, by the way, we can also talk about the ethnic map of crimea, which is now considered by the russians to be such a real russian territory, well, it's so difficult. the russian territory with ethnic russians was created by the deportation of peoples from this territory, and this deportation took place practically since catherine ii, who displaced the population of crimea from its territory, residence, and i just want to remind you that at the time of the presence of the first russian army in the territory of crimea, the army of catherine ii. 80% of the population of crimea was crimean tatar 80%, and before world war ii, what was the population, it was

somewhere around 20.25%, and even this population was expelled, and if you carefully look at the history of each russian republic and you will see that there are somewhere between 10-15-20% of people left in many russian republics, if you think, it was always like this on this territory, no, there was 70, 80%, 90%, russia... they always tried to completely replace these territories, and then these began: oh, this is eternal russian land , siberia, well , i’m sorry, it was a khanate, it had its own large population, its own civilization, they captured it, colonized it, changed the population, but they like to talk about the american indians, it’s their favorite topic, and it must be said that the indians, although would have stayed in

north or south america. and with the peoples of siberia were much worse, where yermak came and all this, i mean yermak timofievich, so that no one thinks that all this shatia is a brotherhood, but just a part of our citizens, what are we saying, this is the context to negotiate, the context is to change the flag or what , who believes, thinks that now it is possible to agree on the same conditions. as they say, let zelensky sit down, even the same bloggers, and not only bloggers, but i see that there is a part of people who say the same, let zelensky sit there and go negotiate, why is he sitting here, let him sits down, let's make some concessions, let's finish, that is, they, you understand, they think that with some agreements it is possible to stop the war, preserve the conditional status quo

and... conditionally speaking, live on, but even you and i are in this program more than once they said that without real guarantees, without joining nato, but we see that this is not just a slip-up, this is a big question, it will essentially become such a sword of damocles over ukraine, and the war will simply resume, conditionally tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, after , dmytro medvedev says about this, not hiding it, but you know, me i think that these people have another problem, such people, as is correct, they still remain in the institution... of the soviet mentality to a certain extent, what i mean is, a person, if he internally feels that he is a part of the soviet civilization, he tolerates this mentality to political events, and believes that everything depends precisely on her, on her state, that is, she perceives ukraine as the soviet union, and by the way, this is also how part of the political elite still perceives that if we

want something. then of course we will achieve it, we do not conduct negotiations simply because we are not we want, but if we want to, we don't want to talk with putin now, but if we want to, he will immediately be ready to talk about anything and agree on everything with us, because you can't not talk to us, but the problem is because we are not the soviet union, the soviet union over there on the other side of the border, remained, the soviet union is the russian federation and... indeed, if vladimir putin really wanted to hold real negotiations, he would obviously find ways to hold them, because he is the head of nuclear states, they count on him one way or another, they fear him one way or another, if he wants to sit down at the transition table, as the west says, for a constructive conversation, they will talk to him, the question is whether they will talk to us in russia, even if we want a so- called constructive conversation, if from the point of view of the russian leadership we are not the soviet

union. but just some small separatist territory of this soviet union, whose task is simply to say what they say, to carry out what they say, just some ukrainian ssr, well, it's strange at all, if i consider myself the president of the soviet union, to pay attention to this union republic, well, remember, in 1900 , in the 90th year, lithuania announced the restoration of its independence. and what did the soviet union do first? introduced an economic blockade of lithuania and sent troops there. and as i remember, i was present at the dialogue, when one of the deputies of the verkhovna rada of the soviet union from lithuania, a member of sayudis, asked the head of the council of ministers of the soviet union mykola reshkov. well, if you are consider us a part of