of the russian leadership, we are not the soviet union, but just some small separatist territory of this soviet union, the task of which is simply to say what they say, to do what they say, just some kind of ukrainian ssr, well, this is altogether strange, if i consider myself the president of the soviet union to pay attention to this union republic, well, remember in 1900 , in the 90th year, lithuania... announced the restoration of its independence, and the first thing the soviet union did was to impose an economic blockade on lithuania and then to deploy troops. and when, i remember, i was present at the dialogue, when one of the deputies of the verkhovna rada of the soviet union from lithuania, a member of sayudis, asked the head of the council of ministers of the soviet union mykola reshkov, well, if you consider us a part of... the soviet union,

how can you introduce economic sanctions against part of the soviet union? well, we don't think so, but you think, you think, that we are part of the soviet union, mykola ivanovich says, yes, i'm sure, the lithuanian ssr is part of the soviet union, and how do you oppose you introduce economic sanctions on the citizens of the soviet union so that they live worse, and he says, well, how do we punish, we have the right, we punish you, we are the leadership and we know better what is up to us, it is not up to you to decide, we, why should you... you can't live if you don't obey, that is, this attitude is like children, not citizens, and he was absolutely convinced that this is how it all works, you can give candy to good children, and you can ban candy from bad children eat and stop all the trains with candy there or with oil or something else borders of this union republic, to understand how in this union republic without the soviet union, and remember, all the years of our independence. before this war, the russian

federation always blackmailed us with gas, if you misbehave, we will raise gas prices, even solovyov will print this one, he sang the whole song: if you misbehave, we will cut off your gas, well, the same does not happen between sovereign states, so must be understood from the point of view of russia, from the point of view of vladimir putin, from the point of view of russian generals, from the point of view of the citizens of russia federation. from the point of view of even some of your relatives who still remained there in russia, and with whom you either communicate or do not communicate, do not know what you are doing with them, no ukraine existed, does not exist and will not exist, and even if some kind of ukraine exists, then it must obey, and this is not putin's point of view, this is another problem, if you want such political compensation, if i am a citizen of russia, what do i influence, i can choose my president, i can't do anything... to choose, no one asks me,

completely other people decide what will be there, me i can even choose a mayor, a city, i can’t, if i choose a mayor of a city that i like, people from the investigative committee will come for him tomorrow and send him to siberia for 15 years, because why did he fight before his father went to hell , what are you doing, so i can't do anything, what can i do, well, i can beat my wife, it's always nice and children, so now they say that you can't pass a law about sex. sorry, this is about domestic violence in russia, because it destroys family values, it, to things, sexual violence is also included here, as you understand, it cannot be accepted, russian deputies say, because it is a family value to beat the wife, because this is how i compensate, i am nobody and nothing, but i can beat my wife, and more a very pleasant compensation, even better than beating the wife, is to conquer someone else's territory, to come there as a master. on

a tank, on a tank to show what a great man i am here, i came from moscow, although in reality i have never been to moscow, i live in some village in the volodymyr region, to moscow 12 hours to go, but it doesn't matter, i'm here from moscow, you have to kiss my boots until i wet them in the indian ocean, well, everything, the whole national mentality, look how skillfully they organized the mobilization for war, they at first... they actually marginalized the rural population and the population of small towns, closed all social elevators, closed all the possibility of engaging in some kind of small and petty business, turned people into nothing, so that these people say: well, listen, what to do, well a young person, whether she lives there in a village or in some small regional center, she is 18 years old there, she will never have her own apartment in her life, she will never have her own car, she cannot create a family normally, because will be forced to live somewhere... in the chicken coop with

her parents instead of, or should the parents allow and drive the rooster and chickens out of the chicken coop? no, it's important, you know, eggs are worth more than this e. own child with a wife, well, that's it, here he goes to the army, well , first of all, the salary is high, you can take a mortgage, take a loan, build something there, buy some kind of apartment, and in the end you can even steal a couple of toilets for this apartment in ukraine, just a beautiful life begins, that is , they brought people to such an animal state and now they are calmly mobilized , it is not even necessary to mobilize, they go there themselves, because in principle, as when... said one member of the public chamber of the russian federation in 2014, when he was asked, what do you think that russians will voluntarily go to war with ukraine, he was asked on russian television, i see programs, he says, it is better to fight than to live the way people live here, and

it is true, it is much better from a social point of view, and that’s all, about nato, the summit was held on this weeks, we... saw the results, we saw the statements, we saw what was being signed, including security agreements, unfortunately, we still do not see a clear understanding when ukraine will be in nato and it is clear whether it will be in nato , it is clear that those statements that were made, unfortunately, did not add clarity, and by the way, here is this attack, which we have already talked about for more than half an hour. this terrible terrorist attack, it can also be connected symbolically with the nato summit, because in fact this attack was clearly timed almost every day before this event. mr. vitaly, here is the first question, here

we can state that in this way putin conveyed congratulations not only to ukraine, ukrainians, but also to the entire civilized world, that it is necessary to negotiate on... his terms, and that this terror will only grow, well, i really i believe that putin is absolutely sure that he will be able to with such actions to kill this idea of ​​euro-atlantic integration of ukraine, but on the other hand, they say that we do not know whether we will be in nato, well, the summit speaks of the inevitability of the course, he simply cannot formulate the political circumstances, uh, under which ukraine can to become a member of nato, there are no more elections, that we can either... become or not become, all allies, everyone, even hungary, agree with the idea that ukraine will become a member of nato inevitably, but two issues need to be resolved: the war and the terms of accession . conditions of entry are not so difficult to solve. war is a serious problem. so, in principle

, they are telling us something different. we are told that until you end the war, you will not be a member of nato. well, you can formulate it as i formulated it. president biden, that ukraine's victory over russia is a condition for ukraine's accession to nato, but again, let's not forget that the idea of ​​ukraine's victory over russia is also perceived differently in ukraine and in the west. for us, this is the indisputable restoration of territorial integrity by military means, and in the west it is preservation ukrainian statehood under the conditions of creating political conditions for the restoration of territorial integrity in the future. and now the most important question is not this, but whether ukraine can join nato if its territorial integrity is not... restored in the coming years or decades, what should such a procedure look like? i have repeatedly said that such a procedure can look very simple, and i still adhere to it, that ukraine, in the event of the end of hostilities on our territory,

they may end with some kind of truce or by some agreement on a cease-fire, just in case of exhaustion of the parties, we just haven't reached it yet. to this point, but again, this nervousness of vladimir putin suggests that this point is already appearing somewhere, otherwise he would not have talked about all this, we just need to end the war, cease fire without commitments of neutral status or non-alignment to nato a ceasefire should be a ceasefire, it's just that when one side does not guarantee anything to the other, russia does not guarantee us that it will return our territories. we do not guarantee russia that we are not we will continue to fight from our territory and that we will not be members of nato. this is the model of stopping the god. then it depends on nato. i have seen such a procedure that after that the allies go and invite this country, whenever it is, we know that this

war can end in 10 years, i don't know when. it's a long process. maybe this year. this, again, is a matter of exhaustion of the parties. allies are gathering and inviting us to nato. that's how they now made a unanimous decision about the inevitability, that's how unanimously announce that they us. are invited, then, as you know, there is a procedure for the ratification of this agreement on our accession by national parliaments, at this stage there may be a pause, let's say the parliament of hungary, conditionally speaking, i will say, you know, we will ratify this agreement only after normalized political relations between ukraine and russia, we do not need a war in europe here, we support ukraine's accession to nato, as soon as ukraine normalizes its political relations with the russian federation, we i can put it right away. this is a matter for ratification in the hungarian parliament, and it may be in another 10 years, which may be these 10

years, these 10 years, ukraine may receive security guarantees from the usa, great britain, let's say, such as sweden received, intermediate security guarantees, but the security guarantees, which say that the united states and great britain are ready to deploy a nuclear umbrella over us, are ready to be participants in some actions if we are attacked again, and of course we have to. will be a clear point that we are not we start some forceful actions to return our territories without consulting the guarantor countries, it can also be there. now the question arises: what about russia? russia will most likely sign a political agreement with us in a fairly short time, because it will know for sure that it cannot fight with us, that a war with us is a war with the west, and thus the hungarian parliament or the slovak parliament or some other . it will be possible to ratify the agreement on our accession to nato not 10 years after the invitation, but after

two or three, this is the one, in principle, real option, well, this is an optimistic option, yes, well , this is an optimistic option, but there may be some obstacles at this first stage, for example, donald trump may come to power, and we well understand that his position is unlikely to see ukraine in nato . this issue can be resolved when trump's term is already over, so what's wrong with trump? trump will stay for four years, you and i find, 2 and a half years of this war have already passed, maybe seven more will pass, i apologize, maybe at the moment when it will all be resolved, donald trump can already die, not because someone hits him, but because he is just at that age, so no, i am just calm about these prospects, i am talking about prospects, again, if we take some that the russian-ukrainian war is an absolutely natural state. the existence of ukraine and russia in the 20s and 30s of the 21st century, then we are talking about a perspective, a perspective, relatively speaking,

10-20 years, 10-20 years, yes, jen stolf already said that in 10 years ukraine should become member of nato, it may happen that in these 10 years should enter, the end of the war, the invitation to nato and the ratification of the parliament, this is a period of 10 years for this territory, which at the time of this decision. will be controlled by the legitimate ukrainian government, no one knows the size of this territory, because this war can be different, war is a wave thing, today there, tomorrow here, on the other hand, we see that this war is basically from 2022 year did not allow real changes in the front line, well, we can talk, of course, cover our heads with ashes and say that we have a lot to do succeeded, but i would like to know what the russians succeeded in, i would like to remind you that according to their plans they should have been... in the territory of the entire donetsk region long ago in the 22nd year, now it is ending,

half of the 24th has passed, sooner or later we will have to turn to realism, what is happening now is not realism, on the other hand, it can also be said that putin may believe that this war can be won by attrition, not by occupation, but in the end dir. germany lost the war for the first time without occupying its territory, there was none foreign soldier. it wasn't, but it would be like that if there was no west behind us, well , you have to realize that too, so it's a complicated process, but it's a long-term, long-term one, that's why it's so complicated, i would say, yes, really, it's good that you clarified it , because in fact , for some reason, many of our citizens believed that joining nato is a very close prospect, or a medium-term prospect, we must understand that joining nato is a matter... not of tomorrow and not next year, so we need

to move towards it, we need to talk about it and for it our country needs to fight the main thing, because for our country nato is essentially a guarantee, the main guarantee of our security and our life with you, pause for a few minutes, and we will return to the live broadcast of the saturday political club, do not switch. doolgit antineuro complex helps to normalize the functioning of the nervous system. capsules dollheit antinevro. helping your nervous system. there are discounts representing the only discounts on penistiel 15% in pharmacies plantain you and save. euro-2024 final only on megago. spain and england will have an incredible battle for the football crown of europe. tune in to the super match on july 14 at 10:00 p.m. exclusively on mego. oh, i remember, you see, although they say

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sweet lord. the pain in the joints is so piercing, it does not allow to move. i bought dolgit yellow cream, it saves me from rheumatism pain, dolgit is the only yellow cream for joint and back pain, there are discounts , the only discounts are on normoven, 10% in travel pharmacies, pam and save. i 'm coming to ukraine with three children, i don't have a job, i need to find one, i don't have a home, i need to find it, and i... what should the state do so that people like me return? the stories of immigrants that we tell in the film are more eloquent than optimistic official reports and spectacular presentations from government structures, real life destroys myths. no money, wait. here we wait. return or stay, where to return? what will happen to work, loans, children's education, where and at what cost

to be treated? nothing is being done to bring people back abroad, absolutely nothing. internally displaced persons increasingly either go to the west or return to the occupation altogether. if the government doesn't wake up and start acting, we will lose the war for the future, even if we defeat the enemy. how the state should act, i will tell in the film. watch the news at 9:00 p.m., the results of the week, without deadlines for joining, but with promises to support, how the nato summit ended for ukraine. queues in tsnapa and tsk. by july 16 , all conscripted ukrainians must update their military registration data.

abnormal heat covered ukraine. the temperature is breaking records, and the forecasters are not encouraging. coolness, about all this and much more already at 9 p.m. on espresso. live ether, saturday's political club, we return under after a short pause and continue our conversation with vitaly portnikov. well, let's now talk about golubamir and orban. viktor orban visited after zelensky and. putin went to beijing to talk with sydzenpin, later this week, in fact, after the nato summit, orban came to trump, after which they talked, took pictures, and of course, they talked about something, we will talk about it now and to communicate with mr. vitaly, about

orban's further travels, last week we talked about the fact that orban traveled. to zelensky, then to putin, they discussed it, but as we can see, in fact, these voyages, they continued, how do you assess what, what purpose, if last week we, more precisely, last week we talked with you about what this this is most likely a personal initiative of orbán, he scores political points in this way, here we see that... these trips, they multiply in geometric progression: a trip to beijing, a trip to washington, more precisely to trump, not to washington. how are you? evaluate the last two trips of orban, you know, i like all of them the trips begin to seem like part of a much broader plan, that is, on the one hand, i would say that they

are part of putin's plan despite forcing ukraine to peace, but this is the only time when the interests of orban and putin coincide, and on the other hand, they are part of the chinese europe project, because the most important part of it. tour is a trip to xijinping. and by the way, orbán himself said that the first question he asked putin was how do you feel about the chinese peace initiatives i think that he also asked zelensky about it. now it is very important for orbán to form a whole, i would say, a brigade of people in europe who can be lobbyists for chinese, then russian political interests, and who can slow down all efforts to force the west. and refuse to support aggressive regimes, by the way, let me remind you that after the nato summit, where there was an absolutely unprecedented statement specifically in relation to china,

the minister of foreign affairs of hungary, peter szijjártó, said that he would not allow that nato was turning into an anti-chinese organization. this week there was a much more important event, more specific than all those orbán trips, because they basically ended in nothing, but... a third faction of the european parliament appeared, and when orbán stopped forming it, began to form it, many who thought that this was a completely naive idea out of helplessness, well, let's remember, so that our viewers realize this, how events developed: viktor orbán's fidesz party was expelled from the group of european conservatives, the european people's party in prior convocation of the european parliament. by the way, in this convocation of the european parliament , the party of tis peter madzir, the leader of the hungarian opposition, who was in kyiv these days, joined the european people's party,

it occupied this niche in hungary as a respectable conservative party, and orman shifted strongly to the right. when he moved far to the right, many believed that he would be forced to negotiate with parties that are far to the right and... the leader of this group is undoubtedly italian prime minister giorgio meleni, with whom orbán has been dating for several months repeatedly conducted negotiations for the deputies from his party to enter the group in the european parliament, which is headed by representatives of the brothers of italy party, but meloni told orbán that please, viktor, then you must demonstrate that you support ukraine and do not support russian aggression , because it unites all of us who have gathered in this faction, and everyone believed that... orbán's visit to kyiv, remember when they only started talking about him, it was his sign of respect for the melon, so that i would thus show that

he is ready to fulfill this condition, and orbán is in favor the day before his visit to kyiv, he announced that he was creating his own faction in the european parliament, and once again everyone reacted to it absolutely, i would say, without enthusiasm. and believed that it would be a small faction that no one was interested in, and that it would not include any serious far-right parties, as a result , it included parties from the group previously led by the french national association led by marine le pen, this party itself entered to orbán's group, bardela herself, who was to become the prime minister of france, if in the far right won, became the leader of this group, and entered parties both from the group, le pen the former and from the meleni group. i just read today the transcript of the telephone conversation between meleni and the leader of the vox abascalim party, who is there, who

said to meleni, something very strange, you must not understand, we have to join this group because we are fighting for voters with the conservative people's party of spain , and meloni tells him: why go there, why, why? my membership in my party, er, my faction, prevents you from fighting them for voters, because we have a much tougher platform on migration, on budget policy, and on everything, and he never explained to her, and i can explain that she did not want, he did not want to tell her, what separates them is their attitude towards china and russia, that is, this there is in fact the formation of such a... chinese axis on the territory of the european union, of course, it can be said that way, i would say it that way, maybe even in a chinese way, to some extent a russian

axis, well, china. first of all, well , of course, and there also appear the leading far-right parties of all countries who do not want to be participants in this history, you understand what is organized by meleni, that is, it turned out that by and large, by and large, we see an otaku political trend, it is very dangerous when a third group is created in the european parliament, the meleni group only. fourth, and this group, it actually demonstrates that it is capable of absolutely calmly fighting for influence in the european parliament, this is a very important moment, in fact, in this whole story, this is such a situation that one way or another should demonstrate that orbán is doing this..

i would say such tasks for those who would like to see a completely different, completely different europe, its completely different situation in the north atlantic union, and we can predict that this group of orbán will expand even more, that is, can some other political forces, factions in the european parliament join it in the near future , so that, for example, the number of members in this group exceeds 100 people there, i think that it can be, for example, what i am leading to, for example, the same alternative for germany, i understand that it is even for this group is quite dirty, but we are we understand that there is no, as they say. that is

, today in the world, in the world politics , we are observing that there is no limit to the impossible, what seemed impossible two weeks ago, today has become possible, what we did not even think about, that it will happen, it is already happening today, it is happening here on the territory of modern europe, and that is why i am leading to this, that, for example, the same alternative for germany, which is a rather significant faction, yes... no, not a couple of people , if she joins orbán's group, and relatively speaking, it is also possible, in which case there will be even more of them and they will become even more influential. again, there is the same group of melons, it counts, if i'm not mistaken, so now there are 60 or so men, yes, they will try to kill her, but i also lead to this, that they will try to split her, because de facto now it turns out that there are two groups. of the right in

the european parliament, and it's not just in the european parliament, it's two groups in the right that have cooperated, united, generally in the european union, that is, these are parties, these are forces, these are people who will to coordinate their efforts on foreign policy, on domestic policy, on some of their messages regarding china and regarding. russia in the european union, therefore, of course, and i am leading to the conclusion that it is quite likely that the alternative for germany will be a certain inclination, an attempt to incline the forces that are in maloney's group, so that they join orbán's group , and then orban's group would not just be powerful, it would occupy... one of

the leading places, well, not only, not only, look, orban wanted this group to the polish law and justice party led by yaroslavomych entered, they refused, precisely because they do not want to support russia, ugh, but he wanted the party of robert fitso, the prime minister of slovakia to join there, they did not want to either , because they are, if not a strange left party, they are essentially so, well, we laugh, but they are ideologically a left party, they are social democrats. what to expect, so in this regard it is absolutely obvious that there is a situation where we understand what is happening with how all these forces are formed, and here we were talking with you about orbán, about his tour, this

tour is a part of this... this history that he shows: