such a wave of criticism and such a backlash to their actions, because before they spread this foolishness and game of theirs, they spread it almost with impunity, other people did not pay much attention to them, they spread such harmful messages to their audience, and only now a large number of ukrainians noticed that such a stupid thing is happening, let's listen, let's listen... the blogger voloshin, one of the participants in this scandal, seems to have a million followers, that's why he's so dubious and ambiguous image, but let's listen to how he himself explains his behavior, they all began to make excuses, and notice, he says that he does not understand politics, but for some reason he still talks about it, talks nonsense, but still does not admit, what does he say to her and... says that he was just

fooled, let's listen, listen, the only thing i understood from this situation is, first of all, that you need to express the point of view in which you are an expert, yes, because there i was a little late on my part i'm really not an expert, and it's true, the second thing i realized is that you have to look at several sides, i already said it yesterday, but what else i realized is that in our country i can't say, i understand that i have there is a lot of social responsibility, i have to filter the bazaar, but look, and you are already being made an enemy, minutes, and it’s some, well, gangs, i understand that state or something, that is, he, he doesn’t even understand the gang, that’s why what about state media, we don't have that many of them, and for some reason he decided to call all media state media, why is not clear, and also let's let's look at this blogger voloshin again, how? i just show him

the same one, because all other bloggers and bloggers basically do the same thing, they initially promoted the same theses, it is not clear for the money, whether they themselves became victims of some kind of suggestion, it is necessary that the sbu it's obvious, but let's listen to him again, because his theses are shared by other bloggers, just so that you understand how people think, who have an incredibly large audience, an audience ... that sometimes exceeds the audience of some official media, now i'm afraid to blurt out something wrong, but let me explain what i meant, the first story was written on emotions, i already understood that we can't do such a thing, because that's where it starts, well, look, i'm not an expert politics, military affairs and so on, well, i can consider myself an expert in business, because i've been doing it for 17 years and have conducted a lot of negotiations, and what it means to play by their rules, this is to accept the initial conditions in order to enter into negotiations, because well, it's in business. that's how it goes let's go

i'm talking specifically about business, the party sets conditions, they are uncomfortable for you, but you accept them in order to then press on certain pains, close certain objections, get into certain desires, manipulate some things that you can manipulate, find weak points and thereby lower the conditions of the other side and raise your own conditions, there everything happens on contrasts and on psychological techniques, this is exactly what i had in mind, the type that seems to me that negotiations, what in business, what in politics are the same everywhere, but an expert and now an expert. i say that there is a lot such business experts who position themselves on instagram, write various words with mistakes, for example, there is genocide or something else, make up some or pull historical facts by the ears and then laugh at them, well, this is our part of the blogosphere, but there is also good news, i don't know how true it is, but one of these bloggers, she reported that she was called to the sbu, because under a huge number of posts in social networks , they simply tagged. the security service of ukraine

was told that dozens, hundreds, probably, of times sbu, listen, figure it out, talk to them. well, obviously, the sbu somehow reacted, but it was not reported by the sbu, the blogger herself wrote it down. we don't know how true this is, but it would be very nice. let's listen to it again. and in the morning i received a very interesting call. i can't say that i was surprised, but he put me in a stupor. they invited me to a conversation with the sbu tomorrow, it’s interesting to listen to what they will say, in principle i understand the reason, i guess, it’s interesting, it’s interesting we live, i’ll keep you informed, that’s all myself, because you are my family, you are my audience, and there is nothing to criticize, there is nothing to backbite, you know my thoughts. well, friends, i

just want to remind you with this information that social networks are a very important part of our lives, a huge amount of false information, manipulation is spread through social networks, remember that russia can act quite sophisticatedly and complexly in matters propaganda and manipulation, so you may not notice it, they calculate their theses for a completely different audience, and propaganda does not immediately mean something so stupid, like skabeeva, yes, but it can be very subtle, and please be very careful, especially with anonymous ones. telegram channels, especially with tiktok, and also, i don’t know if i should advise you to monitor your children, who are also on instagram and who may be followers of such characters, well, obviously you need to have some educational conversations, i don’t know , to explain

to children what information hygiene is, what information security is, what social networks are, how to distinguish manipulation, it is very importantly. but here, and that is why i suggest not to forget about this and constantly, constantly improve your knowledge of information hygiene, well, we hope that the security service of ukraine will find some control over these bloggers and find a reason why they are so constantly and at the same time the same harmful, obviously harmful, dangerous narratives are being posted. that's all, friends, i say goodbye and see you. per week, there are discounts representing the only discounts on exoderyl 15% in pharmacies

plantain to you and savings there are discounts representing the only discounts for trokvas inn are 15% in pharmacies psyllium vam and oshchadnyk. exclusively on the air of our channel. congratulations, friends, politklub is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week. russia's war against ukraine, the war in the middle east, the crisis on the border between ukraine and poland. topics that resonate in our society. drone attack on kyiv. and other cities of ukraine, drone attacks on moscow and other cities of russia. analysis of the processes that change the country and each of us. the country should get the right to start negotiations on joining the eu. vitaly portnikov and the guests of the project, we are bored because there is nothing to fight about.

let's make it up. they help to understand the present and predict the future. for the world, a second trump presidency will be terrifying. a project for those who care and think. political club. every sunday at 20:00 at espresso. vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of air time. two hours of your time. two hours to learn about war and how the world lives. two hours to keep up with economic and sports news. two hours in the company of loved ones presenters, presenters who have become familiar to many. and... also distinguished guests of the studio: events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, espresso in the evening. an unusual look at the news. good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresin, sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions. for example, if

mykola veresin had done so, he would have gone to prison, a special view on the events in ukraine, so it is not necessary to say that the fish rots from the head, no, not from the head, and beyond its borders, then who is china ? me, i have a heart it hurts, all this in the informational marathon with mykola veresny, saturday 17:10, sunday 18:15 at espresso. i congratulate you all, and you are on the "i hear you" program. solomiya chubai. solomiya chubai is me, and i invited, uh, clinical. psychologist, consultant in the method of cognitive-behavioral therapy, olga antoshik. i welcome you, olya, here, and i wonder if it’s true, maybe it’s in my bubble, but it’s interesting to hear about you too, because, for sure, people come to you there, and for

consultations, people really shared for these three camps, or there may be more, there are four camps, there is no war there, volunteers, the armed forces. people who left, fled the war, immigrants, did i miss something, uh, i notice that the divide is really there, because we have... slightly different, not slightly, sometimes radically different experiences, sometimes slightly different experiences, but also i think that we have many points in common, which such a division can overlook, exclude, and perhaps it draws a little too clear lines, because this fatigue, it has many nuances, from which it woven, yes, because today you and i will actually talk about fatigue, and during. war, and about anxiety, the one that we all feel,

each of us also in our own way, in a different way, and the first question i will probably have is whether it is right that most of us forbid ourselves to live, ugh, and this is an acute question, er, they are forbidden to live, this means that they rather forbid... some such positive aspects of life, well, not suicide, i mean the prohibition of life, and i will live there to continue something after the war, i will restore my business after the war, i will to sing after the war, i will allow myself to go to concerts in theaters and generally dance after the war, is it okay at all, well, i would not give it such an assessment as okay or not okay. because from the point of view of the experience that we are living, it is natural, because we fall into such a stress

response, well, like freezing, and, that is, we are in a situation of constant danger, that is, we cannot give ourselves a signal that you are safe, please live, and, accordingly, our bodies, our nervous systems, they are too imprisoned so that we save from danger, and they keep us constantly. in this tension, and that we must be careful, we must, well, actually this tension persists, and in particular this is one of the great sources of such fatigue, and you can understand that it is very difficult to plan, it is difficult to live with your usual dreams, affairs, plans, and , but at the same time, we, as people who can be guided not only by such basic reactions, but more meaningfully relate to life, then we seem to be able to... change it a little, and we often hear about it like this the encouragement that let's not delay life,

let's live life, and it's not a simple balance that we have to somehow learn, and because we can't turn off our nervous systems while we're in danger, but we also understand that our life is passing , and we want to live, i generally observed my acquaintances, and those who... actually forbid themselves, forbid this life, forbid going to concerts, and they simply become such shadows, well, concerts, because it hurts me, because i i sing, yes, but despite everything, for example, even somewhere go for a walk or go somewhere to the same carpathians, allow yourself to rest, because they are at the front, they are fighting, and they are sleeping in the swamp there, it is difficult for them there. and i will rest here and there, mm, because er, and what will they

think again, and, er, where do we even have this story, er, who will think what about us, and this prohibition to rejoice, uh, eh, that's really a very common feeling, i'm so guilty, maybe i'm ashamed that i'll have something good for... once in my life, it's often excessive, we understand that it so it grows and covers a person, and a person suffers from it, some of his life suffers, he cannot even, maybe it has a negative effect on his direct duties, whether professional or parental, but on the other hand, every emotion actually tells us about something important, and when we feel this guilt or shame, it means that we also... it's about our humanity, that we feel belonging to the nation, and we

understand that these people on the front are our people, and we feel that it's actually it's unfair, yeah, that's the feeling, it somewhere our moral compass is activated and it tells us that there is injustice in this, we notice it, and we can empathize with the suffering of other people, so we feel it... emotions, so to say that they are, well, wrong or evil, but we, this, that is also not possible, ugh, we can only understand if they do not grow to such an extent that they already close to us. well, do we then simply not close ourselves, do we no longer fall into such a state, well, a very strong depression, or at all, you know, do we close the windows with black curtains, and it seems to me that after all, the soldiers at the front, as far as i communicate with them, they fight for this freedom and

actually for this life, and they fight first of all for this life, so that we live free. and when we forbid ourselves something, we actually become this circumcision somewhere from such wings, and i am not talking about already such states, when i saw there, when there are completely there some discos, some really trashy terrible stories, and which are shown to us there , or some parties there, or some super expensive expensive weddings, and when... we gather at the front there 10 hryvnias for some i don’t know sights, cars, airplanes and drones, er, that is, i would even in my program, maybe i wouldn’t want to touch these people, because i actually think that here and even do some

it is difficult to assess healthy empathy or common sense there, and it is definitely not about tuva, these people are unlikely to be. and in fact, because something else works here, and, that is, life here already continues to the full, here i want to talk about these people, as he says, like my people, those who really volunteer a lot, who are there because of some of their own some stories didn't go, but didn't go to fight or can't fight, or i'll keep it there. here are the families who did not receive the summons, those who are trying to keep this front so civil, and here is this fatigue during the war, is it normal, and how to help them, how to get out of it? ugh, uh, well, that all these,

this whole spectrum of emotions is normal and fatigue is normal, well, normal in the sense of a natural corresponding situation. this is what is meant, not the one we would like to experience, but the one we have, the second point is what we have with it to do, and we are able to limit its influence on ourselves, and we, too, so as not to become, as you noted, a country of such people, shadows, and, in fact, the most indifferent ones, then of course we must take care of our resources, but if to speak concretely, for example, about the same guilt, there is a shame that i am happy, then i think that it is important to separate the emotion and the action that we choose after that emotion, because in fact all emotions, they have some kind of impulse , they tell us some information about reality and what it is for me means, and they actually motivate us to some, well, they can motivate us to some

meaningful action, actually, when, for example, we talk about guilt and we feel that maybe i can do something more, for my country now, and when this guilt is constructive, but we really choose to do some meaningful valuable action, then that's okay, the guilt has fulfilled its function, so when we see that the guilt simply makes us incapable of action, then it already becomes useless, so in fact, i have another question about this anxiety, but it seems to me that this trinity, i even remember last year when i just left with a concert, and to france, where we spoke about ukraine in front of the french, there were french journalists, as if they were talking about helping us, and i arrived, and i remember we lived in such a mansion where there was a swimming pool, and i

simply could not relax in any way, that is, i said: solomiya, rejoice, there is a swimming pool. you are safe, but i have this anxiety, it's like you know how something like that just stuck to me from behind, and it was so dangerous, and i remember that we flew there, because we lived not far some small airport, planes were flying all the time, i just squatted four or five times and dived under the water, because my psyche was already set on bombing. although i was on the front line, and i heard these explosions, i did not observe it in the same way that the guys at ground zero have it. constantly and how to be with such anxiety, when you have already left, and rest somewhere or in the same carpathians or something else, and she just

follows you, uh, well, first of all, i would treat her, how are we, well, how are we in general we teach people to be with emotions, we just look at them first, we notice that this anxiety is happening to me, then we give them a place... it is such an acceptance to be there, because when we are in a hurry to get rid of it, it often does not work, well, most of the time it doesn’t work, and we see that she is anxious, but this is happening to me now, we give the opportunity to that inner experience to unfold, and we give ourselves the opportunity to hear what this emotion is telling me, is there anxiety, it is telling me , which i think you are not in danger, but you have to protect yourself somehow, then we can already give... an answer, and, for example, in the case when you are really in a safe place and can rest, you can rationally calm it down a little, explain it, and uh, you can, uh, well, have

some kind of, a set of strategies that can help you, it's either some kind of people who are safe, you can hang out with them, or it's some useful behavioral strategies, and, or even just self-compassion, when we can say to ourselves that i am so... sorry that i am now with it happens to me, i'm so tense, but we also can't ask ourselves to take it and relax, because our nervous systems, they spend a lot of resources to adapt to that life in danger, and here when we momentarily fall into it's like a safe space, it's difficult to adapt, by the way, i also noticed that when i went abroad with performances there, i wanted to go back home, so here and there there may be some explosions, rockets, although lviv is quite , and western ukraine is more or less safe, without safe zone, and me too, this will

actually be another topic of our conversation, not with olea, but with other psychotherapists who work with the military, and i just know military people who also do not feel okay, and in safety they want to return to that the very front, because for them here... other reasons are working, but there are their brothers and there, at least they also feel less of this, you know, of this vibration of such, such, such a very, very disturbing, uh, well, because this is some new environment again , you have already adapted, and you need to again to readjust, that is, in principle, we can say that our psyche, we, we can say that we are used to war. to some extent yes, and is it scary to get used to war? well it's a natural adaptation, we're different, we probably wouldn't be able to handle it if we

had the same levels of fear that we had there in the first days of the full-scale invasion, for example, i remember when i went to the front too, and i drove through mykolaiv, and i was just in mykolaiv, there were explosions all the time, all of them have not been released yet. i remember, when the three boys were playing football, and i thought, how is it possible to play football at all, that is, they were fine, they didn't even bend down when something rattled, they were already there, how could the ball roll out into the street, the military was driving quite fast, they took this ball away, that is , people with machine guns were constantly walking around them, uh, but they... just lived like that, uh, there, and it impressed me so much, these boys playing football , half of the house, for example, is missing, and

recently my friend, who said, i am so afraid because my children are here, i have the impression that they have already forgotten that there is a war, they just live like this, especially teenagers, and she asked such a question, is it worth reminding them... about the war, is it worth constantly saying, ugh, what will it lead to then? well, i think that we have to keep a certain balance here, because there are moments when it is safe, and we can relax too much and sometimes do not take care of our safety, there are moments such as our contribution, and what we do for our country and... also here it is possible to lose this feeling that we have volunteering, donating, that's how you can lose the sense of urgency, if you tell yourself too much that, well... everything will somehow be there, or

they'll do without me, and, er, but at the same time , yes, er, for sure we have take care of that side, uh, joyful life, where you need to strengthen yourself, where you need to take care of yourself, and so you can’t forget for a little while, that is, stay in the space where here and now, you, for example, in the circle of safe people, and you can just sort of regulate your nervous system a little bit, but again, we have to understand what... when we talk about i'm tired of the war, and this phrase, it sounds so very triggering, because it simply mixes two concepts: it mixes the physical, well , emotional state that a person experiences, and he is also normal, it is in fact in everyone, and it is mixed in it as if it is a choice, i choose indifference, maybe it sounds like i am tired and i don't care, but it is not

here... things we can feel tired and at the same time try to somehow regulate it and choose valuable, meaningful actions, that is, it does not mean that if i feel that, then i do not care. i wanted to ask you another question, i know that you are in cbt, huh, and there in cbt you don't smoke for a long time, you take some fear or something, even the same anxiety, emotion, and some event, and... basically for each event , you put emotions, and then there is an action, like, how can it be changed, uh, absolutely, and actually, what she wanted was, you know, yes, to give people, i don't know, a wonderful fishing rod with which you can catch a beautiful fish, no i know, joy or something else, this is the first thing, but first i would like to talk with you about these er... um such

fears, the ones that people draw for themselves, these terrible eyes pictures, is it useful to even think about the fact that now a rocket will fly over there, eh, i often hear that i need to paint myself well, because i can lie in the bath there, eh, well, some people sleep dressed, and, because a rocket will fly, and then they will find my corpse and i will be there naked. is it also, well, it's normal to live in this, especially here, again, i emphasize, in the western territory, where there is no active hostilities, uh, well, it's useful to the extent that it's functional, and, that is, until if it is fear that drives us to making some kind of decision, there, for example, i am afraid of this missile, when it is announced...

the air alert, i see from the reports that these missiles are flying, and i, for example, decide that in such a case i will be in the corridor, or i will still go to the storage room, but it makes me feel better, it’s easier, it’s functional, it’s a solution that relieves my brain, but it doesn’t stay permanently, it reduces my anxiety, so it’s functional, functional such fear, yes, on the other hand, if i am only afraid to act on nothing... i can, it is out of my zone control, well then of course this is fear, which will only exhaust us so much, and then it is better to apply some such psychological techniques so that, uh, what can we say to this person who is constantly getting dressed, day and night, even if he is sleeping dressed in shoes, well, if it greatly worsens the quality of life, and she also suffers from it, then

she can find motivation in this. in order to do something about this fear, if she doesn't suffer from it, then for sure we won't tell her anything, we won't advise her, huh, but the people who are there for example, there is an alarm, and they are lying in the bath, and someone is ready there, i know that i have a friend who says, i am ready to receive this rocket, here i am, i am clean, everything, everything is cool, there is there are such people, and we promised you. we in this block will give you a little resource advice that you could advise people, again, who are not at the front, and even families, husbands, brothers, sisters who are at the front, and what we can here , here...