in 1917, there was the city of poltava, and there was another city with the overwhelming majority of the jewish population, the city of berdychiv, in all other cities there were russians, where did they come from in general, they came, they did not live here until the pereyaslovsk council and beyond, they all came here were brought, and all these ukrainians were pushed out into villages, into small towns, further marginalized, they also thought that they were negotiating with the russians, and by the way, ukraine, if you say oh, this is a special attitude towards ukrainians, no, when ivan the terrible captured ... the city of kazan and the kazan khanate , an order was specially issued that tatars could not live in cities, only in villages, and what do you think, kazan was a huge city at the time, where did this urban population go, it was cut off, expelled, raped, robbed, great, as this russian blogger wrote, who later died from the statuette, everything is as we like it, so if someone thinks that he will wait here for the liberators, or simply not the liberators, but those who... will simply

perceive him as a loyal citizen of russia the federation, let it not, creates some illusions for itself, this is not a suitcase-station russia, it is a suitcase, a ravine, a grave, this is the wording, there is no escape, a direct path to death, maybe someone will be lucky, someone, someone will live there. to the age of 85 or 90, cleaning up various faeces for the new owners of life, if he does not die from the heat, you know, somehow it becomes hot and difficult to clean up during the day, but he will have to, but, these will be single people, that is why i believe that ukrainians there is no choice, because for russia, all this population that is left here, all these 28 million po... for what their

political views are, why they want to continue the war or stop it, they are disloyal, no one will play, this is an absolute classic standard policy of russia, always, always, remember, they occupied the baltic countries, three, what they started to do there, industrialization, well, just as well , take them out, destroy the place. take the local population to siberia. mr. vitali, you said that this is not politically correct to some extent, i will respond here that it is actually a story, there is nothing politically incorrect here, because we we are talking about obvious historical facts that are written in all possible and impossible books, please take the history of ukraine of the 20th century, read it, you can even open a map of ukraine, you know.

a long, long time ago, when i first started researching how the ethnic composition of the population of ukraine changed, there are historical maps, we can take maps of the beginning of the 20th century, then take maps of the census taking place in the 20s, 30s, then we take maps from the 50s years and we see how a fraction, how how how a fraction on on on in different cities of ukraine, i just disappear by myself. for some reason after 10-20 years, others appear, and as of 1991, when we already take maps for the 1990s, we see that the russians, the soviet government, well, in fact, russia simply changed the population in many regions of our country, there absolutely everything is different than it was 40 years before , 50 years, i am already teaching you about 70 years to the 90s. also about the ethnic map of crimea,

which now with the russians pretends to be such a real russian territory, the same russian territory with ethnic russians was created by the deportation of peoples from this territory, moreover, this deportation took place practically since the time of catherine ii, who displaced the population of crimea from its territory, residence, and i just want to remind you that at the time of stay. on the territory of the crimea of ​​the first russian army, the army of catherine ii, 80% of the crimean population was crimean tatar, 80%, and before the second world war, what was the population, it was somewhere around 20-25% were crimean, and even this population was expelled, and if you carefully look at... each russian republic and

see that there are somewhere around 10-15-20% of people remained in many russian republics, what do you think, it was always like this in this territory, no, there... it was 70%, 80%, 90%, russia always tried to completely replace these territories, and then these started oh, this is the eternal russian land, siberia, well, i’m sorry, it was a khanate, there was a large population of its own, its own civilization, they captured it, colonized it, changed the population, but they like to talk about american indians and these... beloved topic, but it must be said that the indians at least stayed in in north or south america, and with the peoples of siberia, everything was much worse, where yermak came and all this, i mean yermak timofievich, so that no one would think, all of us, shatia brothers, just a part of our

citizens, what are we saying, this context, to agree, the context of changing the flag or whatever, who thinks that it is now possible to agree on the conditions of the same freeze, well, because as they say, let zelensky sit down, even the same bloggers, and not only bloggers, and i see that there is a part of people who they say the same thing, let zelenskyy sit down there and go negotiate, why is he sitting here, let him sit down, let's make some concessions, let's finish, that is, they, they think that with some agreements it is possible to stop the war, preserve the conditional status quo and conditionally speaking to live on, but even you and i have repeatedly said in this program that without real guarantees, without joining nato, and we see that this is not a slip-up, this is

a big question, it will essentially become such a sword of damocles over ukraine, and the war is simple will recover, conditionally tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, the day after the day after tomorrow. such people, as is correct, they still remain in the state of the soviet mentality to a certain extent. what i mean is that a person, if he internally feels that he is a part of soviet civilization, he transfers this mentality to political events, and believes that everything depends on him, on his state, that is, he perceives ukraine. like the soviet union, and by the way, this is also part of the political elite , so it is still perceived that if we want something, we will certainly achieve it, we do not spend negotiations simply because we don't want to, but if we want to, we don't want to talk with putin right now, but if we want to, he

will immediately be ready to talk about anything and agree on everything with us, because we don't you can not talk, but the problem is that we don't... the soviet union, the soviet union remained over there on the other side of the border. the soviet union is the russian federation, and indeed, if vladimir putin really wanted to hold real negotiations, he would obviously find ways to hold them, because he is the head of the nuclear states, they count on him one way or another, they fear him one way or another, if he wants to sit down at the transition table, as the west says, for a constructive conversation, they will talk to him, the question is whether they will talk to... us in russia , even if we want a so-called constructive conversation, if from the point of view of the russian leadership we are not the soviet union, but just some small separatist territory of this soviet union, the task of which is simply to say what they say, to carry out what they say, just

some the ukrainian ssr, well, it is generally strange, if i consider myself the president of the soviet union, to pay attention to this union republic, well, remember. in 1900, in the 90th year, lithuania announced the restoration of its independence, and the first thing the soviet union did was to impose an economic blockade of lithuania and send troops there, and as i remember, i was present at the dialogue, when one of the deputies of the verkhovna rada of the soviet union from lithuania, a member of sayudis, asked the head of the council of ministers of the soviet union mykola reshkov, well, how is that? if you consider us a part of the soviet union, how can you be against a part of the soviet union, to introduce economic sanctions? well, we don't think so, but do you think, do you think, that we are part of the soviet union? mykola ivanovich says: yes, i'm sure the lithuanian ssr is part

of the soviet union, but why do you introduce economic sanctions against the citizens of the soviet union so that they live worse, and he says: well, we punish, we have the right, we punish you , we... the leadership and know better than us, it's not up to you to decide, we, why don't you live worse if you don't obey, that is, this attitude is like to children, not to citizens, and he he was absolutely convinced that this is how it all works, good children can be given candy, and bad children can be forbidden to eat candy, stop all trains with candy there or with oil or something else at the borders of this union republic, so that they understand as in this union republic without the soviet union, and remember, all the years of our independence before this war, the russian federation always blackmailed us with gas, you will behave badly, we raise the prices for... for gas, even print this solovyov, he sang the whole song: if

you misbehave, we will cut off your gas, well , the same thing does not happen between sovereign states, so it is necessary to understand from the point of view of russia, from the point of view of vladimir putin, from the point of view of russian generals, from the point of view of citizens of the russian federation, from the point of view of even some of your relatives who are still there in russia, and with whom you either communicate or do not communicate, they do not know what you are doing with them, no. which ukraine did not exist, does not exist and will not exist, and even if there is any ukraine exists, then it must be obeyed, and this is not putin’s point of view, this is another problem, if you want such a political compensation, if i am a citizen of russia, what do i influence, i can choose my president, i can’t choose anything for myself, nobody asks, completely different people decide what will happen there, i can even choose the mayor of the city. i can't, if i elect a mayor of a city that i like, people

from the investigative committee come for him tomorrow and send him to siberia for 15 years, because he ran for office, he went to hell before his father, what are you doing? so i am i can't do anything, what can i do, well, i can beat my wife, it's always nice and the children, that's why now they say that you can't pass a law on sex, i'm sorry about domestic violence in russia, because it destroys family values. by the way , sexual violence also, as you understand, is included here, but it cannot be accepted, russian deputies say, because it is a family value to beat the wife, because this is how i compensate, i am nobody and nothing, but i can beat my wife, and more a very pleasant compensation, even better than beating one's wife is winning someone else's territory, to come there as a host on a tank, on a tank, to show what a great man i am here, i came from moscow, although in reality it is moscow. i've never been, i live in some village in the volodymyr region, it's a 12-hour drive to moscow, but it doesn't matter, i'm here from

moscow, you have to kiss my boots until i wet them in the indian ocean, that's all, the entire national mentality, look at how skillfully they organized the mobilization for the war, they actually marginalized this rural population at first, population of small towns, closed all social elevators, closed all possibility. to engage in some kind of even small and petty business, they turned people into nothing, so everyone says, well, listen, well, what to do, well , here is a young person, well, she lives there in the village or in some small district center there , she is 18 years, she will never have her own apartment in her life, she will never have her own car, she cannot create a family properly, because she will be forced to live somewhere in the chicken coop of her parents instead of whether it is necessary for her parents to allow and drive the rooster out of the chicken coop. chickens, no, it’s important, you know, eggs are worth more than this, his own child with

his wife, well, and this, here he is going to the army, well, first of all, the salary is high, you can take a mortgage, a loan take, build something there, er, buy some, some apartment for yourself, and in the end, you can even steal a couple of toilets for this apartment in ukraine, just a beautiful life begins, that is , they brought people to such an animal state, and now they are calmly mobilizing, there is no need even to mobilize... wards of the russian federation in 2014, when he was asked, what do you think that the russians will voluntarily go to war with ukraine, he was asked on russian television, i see the programs, he says: it is better to fight than to live the way people live here, and it's true, it's much better from a social point of view, and that's all, about nato. the summit took place this week, we saw the results, we

saw the statements, we saw that security agreements were also signed, unfortunately, we still do not see a clear understanding when ukraine will be in nato and whether it will be in nato, it is clear that the statements that were made, unfortunately, did not add clarity, and... by the way, here is this attack, which we have already talked about for more than half an hour, this terrible terrorist attack, it can also, in principle, be connected symbolically with the summit. nato, because in fact this attack was clearly timed almost day to day before this event. mr. vitaly, here is the first question: here we can state that putin thus conveyed his congratulations not only to ukraine, the ukrainians, but also to the entire civilized world, that it is necessary to negotiate on his terms, and that

this terror will only grow. well, i really believe that... putin is absolutely sure that he will be able to kill this idea of ​​euro-atlantic integration of ukraine with such actions, but on the other hand, they say that we do not know whether we will be in nato, well, the summit says about the inevitability of the course, he simply cannot formulate the political circumstances under which ukraine can become a member of nato, there is also no choice, that we can either become or not , all the allies, everyone, even hungary, agrees with the idea that ukraine will become becoming a member of nato is inevitable, but two issues need to be resolved: the war and the terms of accession. admission requirements are not so difficult to solve. war is a serious problem. so, in principle, they are telling us something different. we are told that until you end the war, you will not be a member of nato. well, you can formulate it, as president biden formulated, that the condition for

ukraine's accession to nato is ukraine's victory over russia, but again, let's not forget that the idea of ​​ukraine's victory over... russia is also perceived differently in ukraine and in west. for us, it is undeniable restoration of territorial integrity by military means, in the west - this is the preservation of ukrainian statehood under the conditions of the creation of political conditions for the restoration of territorial integrity in the future. and now the most important issue is not this, but whether ukraine can join nato if its territorial integrity is not restored in the coming years or decades. what should such a procedure look like? so i have repeatedly said that... such a procedure may look very simple, and i still adhere to it, that ukraine, in the event of the end of hostilities on our territory, they may end with some kind of truce or some agreement on a cease-fire, simply in case of exhaustion of the parties, just now we have not yet reached this point, but again, this

nervousness of vladimir putin speaks of that this point is already appearing somewhere, otherwise he... he didn't talk about all this, we just need to end the war, cease fire, without obligations of neutral status or not joining nato. a ceasefire must be a ceasefire. simply. when one side nothing guarantees another. russia does not guarantee us that it will return our territories. we do not guarantee russia that we will not fight with our territory further. and that we will not be members of nato. this is the model of stopping the mud. then it depends on nato, i have seen such a procedure that after that the allies go and invite this country, whenever it is, we know that this war can end in 10 years, i don't know when, it's a long time process, and maybe this year, it is again a matter of exhaustion of the parties, the allies are gathering and inviting us to nato,

as they have now made a unanimous decision about its inevitability. this is how they unanimously announce that they are inviting us, then, as you know, there is a procedure for the ratification of this agreement on our accession by national parliaments, at this stage there may be a pause, let's say the hungarian parliament, conditionally speaking, i will say, you know, we will ratify this agreement only after political relations between ukraine and russia are normalized, we do not need a war in europe here, we support ukraine's accession to nato as soon as possible. what can be these 10 years, these 10 years ukraine can receive security guarantees from the usa, great britain, let's say, such as sweden received, intermediate security guarantees, but security guarantees that say that the united states is there and great britain is ready

over us deploy a nuclear umbrella, ready to be participants in some actions. if we are attacked again, at the same time, of course, we must have a clear clause in these guarantees that we do not initiate any forceful actions to return our territories without consulting with guarantor countries, it can also be there, now the question arises: what about russia? russia will most likely sign a political agreement with us in a fairly short time, because it will know for sure that it cannot fight with us, that the war is with us. this is a war with the west, and in this way the hungarian parliament or the slovak parliament or someone else will be able to ratify the agreement on our accession to nato not 10 years after the invitation, but after two or three, that's it. in principle, a real option, there may be some obstacles to the option, well, this is an optimistic option, yes, well this is an optimistic option, and a possible one at this stage, for example,

donald trump may come to power, and we well understand that his position is unlikely to see ukraine in nato, this issue can be resolved when trump's term of office is already over, so what, what about trump, trump will be there for four years, you and i have already passed 2.5 years of this war, maybe seven more will pass, i apologize, maybe by the time this is all resolved, donald trump may already be dead, not because someone is hitting him, but because he just is at this age, so no, i am just calm about these prospects, i am talking about prospects, again, if you and i take it as an axiom that the russian-ukrainian war is an absolutely natural state of existence of ukraine and russia in the 20-30- those years of the 21st century, then we are talking about the perspective, the perspective, conditionally speaking... i already said that in 10 years ukraine should become a member of nato, it may happen that in these 10 years they should enter, end the war,

invite to nato and ratify parliaments, they are a period of 10 years for this territory, which at the time of this decision will be controlled by the legitimate ukrainian governments, no one knows the size of this territory, because this war can be different, the war is a wave... a thing today there, tomorrow here, on the other hand, we see that this war, in in principle, since 2022, it has not allowed real changes in the front line, well, we can talk, of course, bury our heads in ashes and say that we have not succeeded in many things, but i would like to know what the russians have succeeded in, i would like to remind you that they according to their plans, they should have been in the entire territory for a long time of the donetsk region long ago in the 22nd year, now half of the 24th is already ending. was going, sooner or later we will have to turn to realism, what is happening now is not realism, on the other hand, it can also be said about this, putin

may believe that this war can be won by attrition, not by occupation, but in the end dir. germany lost the war for the first time without occupying its territory, there was not a single foreign soldier there, but it would have been the same if there was no west behind us, well, this must also be realized, so this... complex process, but multi-year, multi-year, that's why it's so complicated, i would say, yes, really, it's good that you clarified it, because in fact, for some reason, many of our citizens believed that joining nato is a very such a close perspective, or a medium-term perspective, we must understand that joining nato is not a matter of tomorrow or next year, therefore we need to move towards it, we need to think about it. speak, and our country needs to fight for it, because for our country, nato is essentially that guarantee, the main guarantee of our safety and

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discounts on... exclusively on the air of our channel. congratulations, friends, politklub is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week: russia's war against ukraine, the war in the middle east, the border crisis. between ukraine and poland, topics that resonate in our society: drone attacks on kyiv and other cities of ukraine, drone attacks on moscow and other russian cities. analysis of the processes that change the country and each of us. the country should get the right to start negotiations on joining the eu. vitaly portnikov and guests of the project: we are bored because there is nothing to fight about. let's make it up. they help to understand the

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with... with vitaly portnikov, well , now we will talk about golubamir, about orban, viktor orban made a visit after zelensky and putin to beijing, talked with sydzenpin, later, this week, in fact, after the nato summit, orban came to see trump, after which they chatted, took pictures, and of course talked about something. we will talk about this now with mr. vitaly, here are orban's further travels, last week we talked about the fact that orban went to see zelenskyi, then to putin, we discussed it, but as we can see, in fact these travels have continued. how do you assess what, what purpose, if last week we are accurate...

last week we talked to you about the fact that this is most likely a personal initiative of orbán, he is scoring political points in this way, here we see that these trips, they multiply exponentially, a trip to beijing, a trip to washington, more precisely to trump, not to washington, how do you rate the last two trips of orbán, you know, i like all these trips. begin to seem like part of a much broader plan, that is, on the one hand, on one side, i would say, they are included in this plan of putin despite forcing ukraine to peace, but this is the only time when the interests of orban and putin coincide, and on the other hand, they is part of the chinese europe project, because the most important part of this tour is the trip to sydney, and by the way, orbán himself said,

what... the first question he asked putin was how do you feel about the chinese peace initiative. i think that he also asked zelensky about it. now it is very important for orbán to form a whole, i would say, a brigade of people in europe who can be lobbyists for chinese, and then russian , political interests, and who can slow down all the west's efforts to force china to abandon its support for aggressive regimes. by the way, on... what after the nato summit, where there was an absolutely unprecedented statement specifically in relation to china, the minister of foreign affairs hungary's minister of affairs piotr cijarto said that he will not allow nato to turn into an anti-chinese organization. this week there was a much more important event, more concrete than all these orbán trips, because they basically ended in nothing, but...