understand the present and predict the future for the world, trump's second presidency will be a terrible project for those who care and think politclub every sunday at 20:00 on espresso. so, once again good health, 18:30 minutes 17 seconds, taras zagorodny, political technologist, managing partner of the national anti-crisis group, let's just talk about crises now, because what else can we call an attempt on a former president and future presidential candidate. good health, mr. taras, thank you.

joining us thanks a lot so what this attempt means, to what extent, we will analyze later, but this is your general impression of what happened tonight in the united states, kyiv time. good afternoon, well, i think it will add, add points to trump, significantly, because they've heard about it, now the democrats will justify that it's... they organized it, and the trump staff will definitely be actively pedaling it, and it's a takeover of such , you know, initiatives in the campaign, and moreover, even if, and i do not rule it out, that even biden and trump will not participate in the race at all, for the republican party this will be a topic that they will actively play with and will have a huge advantage over the democrats, then...

so you really think that, despite the fact that there is no further speculation on this topic, apart from moscow, there are no speculations apart from moscow, the republicans will still speculate and point the finger that this is not just some crazy thing over there, but the democrats inspired it, and what does moscow have to do with it, it will be the headquarters, it is the headquarters, moscow is the only country, the capital , where they already know who attacked whom and why, all the rest of the capital did not react, saying that we know who attacked whom there and where the ears of the democrats or anyone else, except moscow, did not say it, all the rest are waiting for some reports there, i don't know, fbi, secret service and so on, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, headquarters, headquarters or.

trump's detractors will actively peddle this topic, they will actively spread it , including, and force the democrats to make excuses, what's the point moscow, there is no significance here, some other capitals and what is connected with it. and why are you so convinced that republicans will act like this? this is very similar to the tracing of ukrainian events, or even russian events, but in america, i think everyone will be waiting for some kind of investigation. and not to speculate on a political background, because it can, when it will be, for example, it will be proven that it is the same boy, if it is really him, well, then, if all the speculations against the democrats, well, they are redundant, especially since the secret service is working , she is not political, she protects the president, vice president, and presidential candidate equally, well, it should at least do it equally. well, they

are already actively promoting this topic, as soon as it appeared, i have not heard, i have not heard anywhere that it was actively promoted, well, i have already seen it on twitter and on all related things, well yes on twitter, we also have american war mosquitoes flying from morning to night here in ukraine, so what is this, okay, so it will affect the company in your, in your , in this way that the republicans... will get more support, people will sympathize with the republicans more, and sympathize with the democrats less and, on the contrary , criticize them, as far as i understand, this is so, this is your version, yes, okay, now one more question, already an internal ukrainian one, if you allow, but here all after exactly this came such a peak moment, after ohmadit, this one. tragedies, people began

to notice, not me, people, i mean, literally, those who just use twitter, that the capitulation mood of ukrainians has increased. do you think it's true, these capitulatory eyes moods, this attraction to negotiations must be negotiated, and whether or not it is so, the authors are passing off wishful thinking, what do you say, please, well, i think that they are passing off wishful thinking, this is once, and secondly, while putin is authorities, the war will continue, they asked themselves the question of solving the ukrainian issue, how they themselves. i bet this is the destruction of ukraine, ukrainians, no negotiations or , well, the imitation of negotiations by the russians will be with one goal only to continue aggression, especially putin until june 14, when he stated, he actually stated his

the negotiating position that ukrainians should withdraw from zaporizhzhia, for kherson and donetsk region, only then will they think of starting negotiations, moreover... he actually demands from the leading countries of the world to hold a conference that will record the annexation, which will never happen in his life, and he wants to sign this with the united states of america, so there will be no negotiations, and putin has already announced his position, i don't understand why he is so sure that the russians are going to negotiate with someone, no, the question is not that the russians are going, the question is that ukrainians... en masse, well enough en masse, experts are paying attention to this, here the main question is whether they are putin's accomplices consciously or unconsciously, not about putin, but about ukrainians who write in various twitters that it is necessary to sit down at

the negotiating table and agree , this is not putin, but these are ukrainian authors, bloggers and so on, who are these people, what is their character? these people, please, well, who exactly means it, who writes it? well, i don't know the surnames, i don't know the surnames, but i know that there are bloggers, a huge number of bloggers, bloggers say, let's be correct in the gender sense, they say that it is necessary to negotiate, and this is such a powerful enough wave, i am not convinced that it is powerful enough, but it is definitely noticeable, if it was imperceptible, we would definitely not pay attention to it. well, you probably mean these instabloggers who have posted their demands to negotiate faster, is that what you mean? yes, i mean that such people who have 600, 700, 800 thousand subscribers, whether real or fake, that is, a fairly

large number, if you believe it, write that it is necessary to negotiate, well, you can interest such people, the russians can interest them in different ways, because it can be for money, or it can be about... someone comes up and tells some acquaintances: look what happened, let's be, let's ask for peace and so on, but these same people live in a completely different reality, they are not interested in politics, and they can write this out of their own stupidity, i do not rule it out either, or simply for money to do it with such texts, but after all, it is deliberate , this is stupidity, is this some money? what do you think these people, they, they just write it because they don't understand anything, or they understand something that 1000 dollars won't hurt, well, for example, thousands, i won't include, well i, i won't exclude both and that, then it can work as a whole, especially if these bloggers

we are talking about, well, they are definitely people not from politics, they may not be interested in what is happening in ukraine at all, especially the majority of them, in general, as far as i understand , lives abroad. and their, their topics are rest, shopping and so on, and that's why i don't rule out that it could be money, it could just be that, the so-called useful idiots, i don't rule it out, i can work there in all aggregates, mr. taras, the effect is that you treat them ironically enough, and i say , that the numbers, well, take the ones they make public, there are some hundreds of thousands, these eyes... they have some influence on society, society will start to get nervous, will society remain as it was before ahmadit, if a bomb or a rocket arrived, and then this started this surge of, so to speak, peacemaking,

if you can call it that, no, of course, it's people who have influence, but it all works, if we talk about technology, it works in... with constant work, that is, if they constantly will return to this topic, if they constantly emphasize it and so on, then this can have an impact primarily on the political audience. which, by the way, may be in the majority abroad, because i think that it is impossible to convince all the others who are under fire in anything, and there is an understanding that it will be impossible to negotiate with putin now, the only thing that can stop the russians is strikes on their territory, on their energy, and everything related to that, by the way i do not rule out that all this fuss of the russians is scientifically... the field of measurement is precisely related to the fact that they know that in the fall it will be possible to see

the results of the strikes on their energy sector, because their energy consumption will increase, because after all after all, a northern country, plus sanctions, which were financial sanctions imposed on the moscow stock exchange, they are already playing quite significantly, but i see there reports from other foreign media that the chinese are beginning to curtail cooperation even in this area. affairs, the minister, recently the minister of transport of the russians complained that they could not even let the planes go and organize a permanent air connection, because the indonesian banks do not want to fall under secondary sanctions, and this is what has already been launched now, and that is why the russians are in a hurry with such peace-making, so-called, peace-making so-called proposals. those but the strikes on the energy sector continue, we actually observe every day that

the rostov region and the krasnodar region are being actively developed, and these are quite important transport nodes for them, well, at least from what i see, what they are concentrating on, primarily on ports and export of fuel oil, why, because fuel oil is not consumed in such quantities in russia and they export it abroad, and the fact that recently... during the celebration of the anniversary of the center and the sbu stated that approximately 34 oil refineries have already been damaged, they are already on their way another round of destruction of this infrastructure, we will see already in the fall, that is why the russians are in a great hurry, because they understand that their negotiating position will be significantly weakened. thank you very much, taras zagorodnyi, political technologist, managing partner of the national anti-crisis group. thank you once again, mr. taras. joined our broadcast, ivan plachkov,

minister of fuel and energy of ukraine in 1999, 2005, 2006, chairman of the union council of the all-ukrainian energy assembly, will contact us now, i hope, and we will talk about various circumstances energy of our life, the circumstances, frankly, are not the best, at least i feel at home, because... sometimes something works for me, then nothing works, i only have an electric apartment, so i have nowhere, well, water there is, thank god, but no, mr. ivan, thank you for finding time for us, the first question is very important, we have already talked about it today and we will continue to talk about it, the russian federation scares by blowing up the hydroelectric power station in kyiv, kanev, and now the question , or is it... realistically they can somehow damage so that

it's damaged, so let's say, well, look, they can't blow it up, because these stations are on our territory, as far as missile strikes are concerned, yes, they are possible, but i'm sure that the air defense is strengthened to destroy the dam. with external blows, it is impossible, yes, they can be damaged, but, but it is not, if, there will be no, water, water, will not get tangled in large, large quantities, and no, there will be no threat to the population, to the houses, there for those areas, in order to damage the dam, her, as they say, there to destroy, this... is possible only from the inside, this is how it was done at kokhovskiys, i

am sure that the security there is strengthened and no one will allow it there, and missile strikes, yes, they are possible, if there is a massive strike there 10- 15 rockets, rockets, i am sure, the air defense will shoot down, well, if one or two hits, it will only damage the equipment, the equipment that is on... the upper one is a substation, it is a power line, transformers and so on, yes, it can lead to to the fact that the station will not work for a while, we will have a worse situation with... which helps to equalize the peaks of consumption, well, the same situation in pokanivska, it is impossible to destroy the dam with such external blows,

it is possible only from the inside. mr. ivan, now there is one more question, i am really interested in it personally, because we, we all live in kyiv, we all have heat, not only in kyiv, but all over ukraine , let's say, unconventional heat, and we are told by ukrenergo, there is a shortage of electricity, and it is said that everyone has turned on air conditioners, that's something, if it were america, i would believe it, because there really is in every apartment the air conditioner may not be the only one, in ukraine i go around kyiv and... i don’t see that the houses are plastered with air conditioners, as much as they should, that they take such a large amount of electricity that 10% of kyivans who have air conditioners use such the amount of energy, that the whole of kyiv is dark, because, well, because the air conditioners are working, because it is real,

well, it is absolutely real, why, because it is as a practice that at high temperatures with... significantly increases, significantly increases consumption , it's like even with such a large one it's cold, why? because in addition to air conditioners, and there are a lot of them, there are a lot of air conditioners now, we may not all see them, there are also refrigerators, they are like household refrigerators, and there are refrigerators, which, imagine how many, because food products, they are somewhere stored if there is a temperature. not so high, then of course they work in a different mode, and now they work, work with such a heavy load, work constantly in order to maintain the temperature in these refrigerating machines, these include food establishments, supermarkets, hypermarkets, in addition to air conditioners, this is a very large number, well, we have such

a modern life without it is impossible, and the fact that, well... there are problems, there will be problems, we have repeatedly said about it, there will be no miracle, unfortunately , it will not be a miracle, we must understand that there will be such improvements somewhere, i am sure, but they will be so temporary, for example, if the temperature drops, or some power unit comes out, on the power atom from repair, and then another power unit is removed, we have. around 7-8 thousand megawatts, that's 800 mw. european countries compensate us, 1.7, now there are agreements up to 2.3, and, uh, of course, everything else is covered, due to the reduction of supply there, by, if necessary, by

gigawatts, by 2 g, by 2.5 , everything depends on the situation, we need, we, we, we know that the strikes continue, and they continue not only on power plants, but also on the distribution infrastructure, these are substations, and taking into account the fact that a very large amount of equipment is damaged, then the remaining equipment, for example, if the substation operated four transformers, now there are two left, the load is the same, and with these... tours , the equipment is already starting to stop working , fires are starting, and we know it in the western regions , transformers are starting to burn, this happens in peacetime, that's why the energy works, that's on predelnykh such opportunities and at the limit of

possibilities, therefore, i think that we should understand and prepare for it. yes, this is my next question, mr. ivan, maybe it will seem like it to all idiot energy workers, but what is better, what is worse, winter or summer, for of energy, which is better, now it is 38 plus in kyiv, at least, and we say, oh-oh-oh, and we all feel it, just at home, we understand that we turn on the lights there for 3-5 hours at most, well six , and... is it worse or better in winter? well, i think that we'd better not talk about energy workers, energy workers will do everything possible and impossible about consumers, for consumers. the situation will be more difficult in winter, it will be much more difficult, why? because if in the summer we use air conditioners, refrigerators and so

on, in the winter the heating system needs to work, heat supply, and heat supply is pumping equipment, it is automation, it is boilers that work, boiler houses without electricity they will not work. therefore, there is such a threat that if there are very low temperatures, there will be a reduction in supply or an emergency shutdown again, and together with electricity, well, for some time , consumers may remain without heat, and this threatens that, threatens that we can freeze the heat supply system in at home and to restore it, it is much more difficult than to restore the power transmission line or replace it a transformer for a ukrainian substation

, ukrainian infrastructure, ukrainian specialists, today in july there is some work , at least theoretically, because the frosts are starting to get crazy, it's minus 20, we must not... turn off the water in this house and we ran into it, and we already know, ivanov runs there, petrenko there, tsidorenko there, everyone did it quickly in an hour, two three, 5, 10, and we, how to say, well secured ourselves for the future, this is what you say, that the restoration of the heat supply, if it breaks the system, it, it just took a week, no, no, no is working backwards, is everything ready for this? i think the energy companies work together with the relevant utilities, there is also interaction with local authorities, this is clear, but unfortunately we have to

state, for example, in kharkov , almost the entire infrastructure of heat supply has been destroyed, and tets-5, and boiler houses and so on, and now the issue of involving mobile there mobile... areas for electric heating is being resolved, but it is very difficult to do it in such a short period, and in such a big city, to compensate for the destruction of the heat supply system, which was built for decades, in 3-4 months, it is even impossible, that is why the work is being carried out, we are helped by ours. partners, friends also help with financing, help with equipment, but, but the amount of damage is very large, so we, together, must understand it, help

and so on, don't wait like that, yes, something has turned off, and we, we, so that the energy and utility workers everything has been done, we all need to be ready for this situation, if we are together, i am sure that we, we will cope. and we can't be broken, that's for sure. mr. ivan, now a theoretical question, quite interesting, we talked about it more than once. nuclear power, nuclear power, obviously, after chernobyl, it hurts, maddeningly, but many years have passed, and now we understand that it is our savior in ukraine, nuclear power, to shoot at nuclear power plants. large volumes of missiles, russia can't, doesn't want to, is afraid, well, i don't know why, but now it seems to me to be some kind of pan-european trend, i

'll tell you right now, ukraine's neighbors want to build new nuclear plants for 130 billion. slovakia , hungary, poland, romania, slovenia, all of them, er, are now turning to the money of brussels and saying, listen, let's start building, because god forbid russia will continue some of its actions, which you and i probably know about and they are only guessing, because they are not flying, and we will build more nuclear power plants, and this will save us from various deficits, what do you say, mr. ivan, well , look, it is possible to state such a renaissance of nuclear energy, there were periods after the accident, in united states of america island was a period of stagnation, i would say, then the accident at chernobyl. focus,

but humanity understands that nuclear energy is the only prospect for providing electricity, because the demand for electricity is growing in the world, er, secondly, such a direction to the green transition was announced as accepted, this is a rejection of hydrocarbons, it is primarily from coal, and... coal today produces at least 30, i would say even up to 40% of electricity, this electricity must be compensated, the only compensator is nuclear energy, this is secondly, and thirdly, it is from the perspective of hydrogen, if it is built, this is what humanity is considering today, well, experts of the international energy association, edison edison's court in the united states. they

extend to the following option is being considered for the future: capacity is being built for the capacity of nuclear power plants for the volume necessary for humanity, for maximum consumption, for example, peak hours, that is provided, and if we, for example, reduce consumption at night, we go to bed and so on , these facilities produce water. it is already used for transport, it is also for railways, it is also for sea, sea, sea transport and so on, that is why this is the trend, and now all countries, including britain, have now announced that they will build several nuclear units and both eastern europe and western europe, well, except for germany, they are still holding on. on this, france

plans to build at least ten reactors in the united states - this is clearly the future of atomic energy, we also need to foresee in our exploration plans the construction of nuclear power plants, well, first of all, the completion of the same khmelnytsky nuclear power plant, but we need to look very carefully at what equipment is new and old, there is a need to buy this old russian equipment in bulgaria, why should we if the bulgarians are going to build to enlarge, complete the american reactors, where there are reactors of the soviet union, and they will not install those reactors that are lying and the purchase by neurosats, and for some reason we want to buy them and build them on

khmelnytskyi, well, this is a question for me. not of course, i cannot understand why energoatom and the minister of energy are talking about this, and the fact that the future, including the ukrainian energy sector for nuclear energy, needs to be developed, there is no doubt about it, and that is how it will be, sir , this is not your specialty, i understand, mr. van, but safety, you know, i am an older person, i remember chernobyl very well. and flew over the chernobyl station in his time and studied what was happening there, and besides chernobyl, as you rightly said, keep island and fukushima, as far as humanity can now protect itself, to what extent, we guarantee that things will not be the same as in fukushima or chernobyl, then humanity will agree, and even the germans will be able to agree, say: okay, if it is safe, let's build, but for this we need proof.

what can be built, everything is fine, we, there will be no new chernobyl, what do you say, sir? i, i didn't understand why it's not my specialty, well, safety is still health, it's some specialists, i don't know there, i don't know, no, i have a specialty, here at the institute, i graduated from the exploitation of nuclear stations of nuclear installations, so, well, then answer. nuclear energy, it, it is high-tech, very high-tech, with pleasure, look, uh, uh, really, uh, and it does not forgive mistakes, and those mistakes that were made in chernobyl and holds the islands, i would say by magic and...