sword over ukraine, and the war will simply resume, conditionally tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, after, says dmytro medvedev, if not hiding, but you know, i think that these people have another problem, such people, as is correct, they still remain in the state of the soviet mentality to a certain extent, what i mean is that a person, if he internally feels that he is a part of the soviet civilization, he transfers his own... to political events and believes that everything depends on him, on his state, that is, he perceives ukraine as the soviet union. well, by the way, this is part of it the political elite still perceives that if we want something, we will certainly achieve it. we don't hold talks simply because we don't want to, but we should want to, but now we don't want to talk with putin, but if we want to, he will immediately. will be ready to talk about

anything and agree on everything with us, because you can't not talk to us, but the problem is that we are not the soviet union, the soviet union remained over there on the other side of the border, the soviet union is the russian federation, and indeed, if vladimir putin really wanted to to conduct real negotiations, he would obviously find ways to conduct them, because he is the head of a nuclear state, he is counted on one way or another, he is feared one way or another if he wants to sit down at the table. negotiations, as the west says, for a constructive conversation, they will talk to him, the question is whether they will talk to us in russia, even if we want a so-called constructive conversation, if from the point of view of the russian leadership we are not the soviet union, but just some a small separatist territory of this soviet the union, whose task is simply to say what they say, to carry out what they say, just some ukrainian ssr, well, it's generally strange. if

i consider myself the president of the soviet union, pay attention to this union republic, well , remember, in 1900, in the 90th year, lithuania announced the restoration of its independence, and the first thing the soviet union did was to impose an economic blockade on lithuania and send troops there, and when i remember i was present at the dialogue, when one of the deputies of the verkhovna rada, er... of the soviet union from lithuania, a member sayudisu, asked the chairman of the council of ministers of the soviet union mykola ryshkov. well, how so? if you consider us a part of the soviet union, how can you impose economic sanctions against a part of the soviet union. well, we don't think so, but do you think, do you think, that we are part of the soviet union? mykola ivanovych says: yes, i'm sure the lithuanian ssr is part of the soviet union, but how do you enforce it against the citizens of the soviet union? economic

sanctions, so that they live worse, and he says, well , how do we punish, we have the right, we punish, we are the leadership and know better that it is not up to you to decide, we, why don’t you live worse if you do not obey, that is, this attitude is like towards children, not towards citizens, and he was absolutely convinced that this is how it is everything works, good children can be given candy, and bad children can be forbidden to eat candy, stop in... these trains with candy there or with oil or something else at the borders of this union republic, so that they understand how these union republics without the soviet union, and remember all the years of our independence before this war, russian the federation has always blackmailed us with gas, if you misbehave, we will raise gas prices, even this solovyov will print, he sang the whole song: if you misbehave, we will cut off your gas. well, the same does not happen

between sovereign states, so it is necessary to understand from the point of view of russia, from the point of view of vladimir putin, from the point of view of russian generals, from the point of view of the citizens of the russian federation, or even from the point of view of some of your relatives who still remained there in of russia, and with whom you either communicate or do not communicate, do not know what you are doing with them, no ukraine existed, does not exist and will not exist, and if even some ukraine exists, then it must obey, and it is not putin. point of view, these are still problems, if you want such a political compensation, if i am a citizen of russia, what influence do i have, i can choose the president, i can’t choose anything, no one asks me, completely different people decide what will happen there, i can even choose the mayor of the city for myself, i can’t, if i choose a certain mayor of the city that i like, the people of the investigator come for him tomorrow committee and send him to siberia for 15 years, because why did he run for office ? go to hell, what is that, so i

can't do anything, what can i do, well, i can beat my wife, it's always nice and the children, so now they say that you can't pass a law about... sexual, i'm sorry, this about family violence in russia, because it destroys family values, by the way, sexual violence is also included here, as you understand, it cannot be accepted, russian deputies say, because it is a family value to beat the wife, because yes i compensate, i am nobody and nothing, but i can beat my wife, and another very nice compensation, even better than beating my wife, is to conquer someone else's territory, come there... as a master on a tank, on a tank, show what a great master i am here , i came from moscow, although in fact i have never been to moscow, i live in some village in the volodymyr region, it is a 12-hour drive to moscow, but it does not matter, i am here from moscow, you have to kiss my boots while i didn't soak them in

the indian ocean, well, that's all, the entire national one mentality, you look at how skillfully they organized the mobilization for the war, they first...actually marginalized this rural population, the population of small towns, closed all social elevators, closed all the possibility of engaging in any small and petty business, turned people into nothing, so everyone says, well, listen, well , what to do, well, here is a young person, well , she lives there in the village or in some small district center there, she is 18 years old there, she will never have her own apartment in her life, she will not have her car, she cannot create a family normally, because she will have to live. somewhere in the chicken coop of the parents , instead of whether it is necessary for the parents to allow, drive the rooster with the chickens out of the chicken coop, no, it is important, you know, eggs are worth more than this child and his wife, well, that’s it, here he is going to the army, well and first of all, it means that the salary

is high, you can take a mortgage, take a loan, build something there, buy some kind of apartment, and in the end you can even steal a couple of toilets for this apartment in ukraine. just a beautiful life begins that is, they brought people to such an animal state, and now they are quietly being mobilized, there is no need even to mobilize, they are going there themselves, because in principle, as one member of the public chamber of the russian federation once said, in 2014 , when he was asked, and what do you think that the russians will voluntarily go to war with ukraine, he was asked on russian television, i see this program, he says, it is better to fight than to live the way people live here. and it is true, much better from a social point of view. well, that's all. about nato. the summit took place this week. we've seen the results, we've seen the claims. we saw that

they were signing, including security agreements. unfortunately, we still do not see a clear understanding of when ukraine will be in nato and... it is clear whether it will be in nato, it is clear that the statements that were made, they, unfortunately, did not add clarity, and, by the way , this attack, which we have already talked about for more than half an hour, this terrible terrorist attack, it can also in principle be connected symbolically with the nato summit, because in fact this attack was clearly timed practically day to day before this event. mr. vitaly, here is the first question, here... it can be stated that in this way putin conveyed his congratulations not only to ukraine, the ukrainians, but also to the entire civilized world, that it is necessary to negotiate on his terms, and that this terror will only grow, well i really believe that

putin is absolutely sure that he will be able to kill this idea of ​​euro-atlantic integration of ukraine with such actions, but on the other hand, they say that we do not know. whether we will be in nato, well, the summit talks about the inevitability of the course, he simply cannot formulate it political circumstances, ugh, under which ukraine can become a member of nato. there is no longer a choice, that we can either become or not become, all allies, everyone, even hungary agrees with the idea that ukraine will become a member of nato inevitably, but two issues need to be resolved, the war and the conditions of accession, the conditions of accession are not so difficult to solve , war is a serious problem. so, in principle , they are telling us something different, they are telling us that until you end the war, you will not be a member of nato. well, you can put it the way the president put it biden, that ukraine's victory over russia is a condition for ukraine's accession to nato, but again , let's not forget that the idea of ​​ukraine's victory

over russia is also perceived differently in ukraine and in the west. for us, this is undeniably the restoration of territorial integrity by military means, in the west it is the preservation of ukrainian statehood. under the conditions of creating political conditions for the restoration of territorial integrity in the future. and now the most important question is not this, but whether ukraine can join nato if it does territorial integrity. will not be restored in the coming years or decades, what should such a procedure look like? i have repeatedly said that such a procedure may look very simple, and i still adhere to it, that ukraine, in the event of the end of hostilities on our territory, they may end with some kind of armistice or some agreement on a cease-fire, simply in case of exhaustion parties, it's just that now we have... reached this point, but again, this nervousness of vladimir putin suggests that this the point is already appearing somewhere, otherwise he

would not have talked about all this, we just need to end the war, cease fire without obligations of neutral status or not joining nato. a ceasefire should be a ceasefire, it's just that when one side doesn't guarantee anything to the other, russia doesn't guarantee us that it will return our territory. we do not guarantee russia that we will not fight from our territory further and that we will not be members of nato. this is the ceasefire model . then it depends on nato. i have seen such a procedure as what follows the allies go and invite this country, whenever it is, we know that this war can end in 10 years, i don't know when. it's a long process. and maybe this year, again, it's a matter of exhaustion of the parties, the allies are gathering and inviting us to nato. just as they have now made a unanimous decision about the inevitable, the inevitability, so they are unanimously

announcing that they are inviting us, then, as you know, there is a procedure for the ratification of this agreement on our accession by national parliaments, at this stage there may be pause, let's say the parliament of hungary, conditionally speaking, i will say, you know, we will ratify this agreement only after political relations between ukraine and russia are normalized, we do not need a war in europe here, we support ukraine's accession to nato, as only ukraine normalizes its political relations with the russian federation, we will immediately raise this issue for ratification in the hungarian parliament, and it may be in another 10 years. what can happen these 10 years, these 10 years ukraine can receive security guarantees from the usa, great britain, say such as sweden received, intermediate security guarantees, but security guarantees that speak. the united states there and great britain are ready to deploy a nuclear umbrella over us, ready

to be a participant in some actions if we are attacked again, and the usual thing in these guarantees will be a clear clause that we do not start any force actions to return our territories without consulting with guarantor countries, it can also be there, now the question arises, what about russia? russia most likely... after a rather short time time will sign a political agreement with us, because she will know for sure that she cannot fight with us, that a war with us is a war with the west, and in this way the hungarian parliament or the slovak parliament or someone else will be able to ratify the agreement about our accession for nato, not after 10 years after the invitation, but after two or three, this is basically the real option, well, this is an optimistic option, yes, well, this is an optimistic variant, but there may be some obstacles at... at the first stage, at this stage, maybe , for example, to come to power donald trump, and we well understand that

his position is unlikely to see ukraine in nato, this issue can be resolved when trump's candidacy is already over, well, what about you trump, trump will stay for four years, you and i find, already 2 15 years have passed this war, maybe another seven will pass, i beg your pardon, maybe by the time this is all resolved, donald trump may already be dead, not because someone beats him, but because he's just at that age, so no , i'm just calm about these prospects, i'm talking about prospects, again, if you and i take it as an axiom that the russian-ukrainian war is an absolutely natural state of existence of ukraine and russia in the 20-30s of the 21st century, then we are talking about a perspective, a perspective, relatively speaking, 10-20 years , a perspective of 10-20 years, so jen stolf already said that in 10 years ukraine should become a member of nato, it may happen, what will they have in these 10 years? the end of the war, the invitation to nato and the ratification by the parliaments, that is

the period of 10 years for this territory, which at the time of this decision will be controlled to the legitimate ukrainian governments, no one knows the size of this territory, because this war can be different, war is a wave thing, today there, tomorrow here, on the other hand, we see that this war, in principle, from 2022 did not allow the real well, we can talk, of course, cover our heads with ashes and say that we did not succeed in many things, but i would like to find out, what did the russians succeed in? i would like to remind you that, according to their plans, they were supposed to... be in the territory of the entire donetsk region long ago in the 22nd year, now already ends, half of the 24th has passed. sooner or later we will have to turn to realism, what is happening now is not realism. on the other hand, it can also be said that putin may believe that this war can be won by attrition, not by occupation, but after all,

germany lost the war in the first world war without occupying its territory, there was none. there was no soldier, but it would have been like that if there had been no west behind us, well, this must also be realized, so it is a difficult process, but a long-term, long-term one, so it is difficult, i would say, yes, really, it's good that you clarified it, because in fact, for some reason, many of our citizens believed that joining nato is a very close prospect, or a medium-term prospect, we should to understand that joining nato is... not a matter of tomorrow or next year, therefore we need to move towards it, we need to talk about it and our country needs to fight for it, because for our country nato is essentially guarantee, the main guarantee of our safety and our lives with you, a few minutes pause, and

we will return to the live broadcast of the saturday political club, do not switch! there are discounts representing the only discounts on normaven 10% in pharmacies plantain to you and savings. evrofast softcaps - first aid against the main field, begins to act in 15 minutes. there are discounts that represent the only discounts on sudocrem. 15% in pharmacies plantain you and save. there are discounts representing the only discounts on troxevs inger 15% in travel pharmacies for you and savings. new week on espresso - weekly summary informational and analytical program, a clear understanding of the key events of the past week, analysis of the causes and consequences of these events from experts, forecasts of the situation for the current week, the opportunity

to ask your own questions and join the discussion. spend the final monday evening with us and walk confidently. in the new week, the new week project with khrystyna yatskiv and andrii smolii every monday at 8:00 p.m. on espresso. there is a war going on, and not only for territories, it is also a war for minds. we are engaged in propaganda. russia is throwing millions of petrodollars into transforming ukrainians to little russians. ukraine will become russia. we counter russian information attacks in the chronicles of information war project. tuesday thursday at 17:15, repeat, tuesday - friday at 22:00. a new week on espresso, a weekly summary information and analytical program, a clear understanding of the key events of the past week, analysis of the causes and consequences

of these events from experts, forecasts of the development of the situation for the current week, the opportunity to ask your own questions and add. to the discussion, conduct a summary with us monday evening and confidently step into the new week. the new week project with khrystyna yatskiv and andrii smoly, every monday at 8:00 p.m. on espresso. direct ether, saturday's politclub, we return to after a short break and continue communication with vitaly portnikov. well, let's talk now about... golubamir about orban, viktor orban made a visit after zelensky and putin to beijing, talked with xi jinping, later this week, in fact, after the nato summit took place, orban came to see trump, after which they chatted, took pictures, and of course

they talked about something, we will talk about this now with mr. vitaly, about further... orban's travels, last week we talked about the fact that orban went to see zelenskyi, then to putin , discussed it, but as we can see, in fact, these voyages, they continued, how do you assess what, what purpose, if last week, we, more precisely, last week we talked with you about the fact that it is most likely such a personal initiative in... orbán, he stuffs himself in this way political points, here we see that these trips, they multiply exponentially, a trip to beijing. a trip to washington, more precisely to trump, not to washington, how do you evaluate the last two trips of orbán, you know, in general, all these trips

are beginning to seem to me part of a much wider plan, that is, on the one hand, one, i would say, its own side they are included in this plan of putin despite forcing ukraine to peace, but this is the only time when the interests of orban and putin coincide, and on the other hand they. is part of the chinese europe project, because the most important part of this tour is the trip to siedenpin, and by the way , orbán himself said that the first question he asked putin was how do you feel about the chinese peace initiative, i think that he also asked zelenskyi about it, now it is very important for orban to form a whole, i would say a brigade of people in europe who can be lobbyists for the chinese, already. then russian political interests, which can inhibit all efforts to force the west china to refuse to support aggressive regimes. by the way, let me remind you that after the

nato summit, where there was an absolutely unprecedented statement specifically in relation to china, the minister of foreign affairs of hungary, peter szijártó , said that he would not allow nato to turn into an anti-chinese organization. this week there was a much more important event, concrete. than all these trips of orbán, because in principle they did not end in anything, but the third significant faction of the european parliament appeared, and when orbán stopped forming it, began to form it, many who thought that this was a completely naive idea out of helplessness, well, let's remember, so that our viewers realize this, as events developed, viktor orbán's fidesz party was excluded. from the group of european conservatives of the european people's party in the previous convocation of the european parliament, by the way, in this convocation of the european parliament , the party of tis peter

madzir, the leader of the hungarian opposition, who was in kyiv these days, joined the european people's party, it occupied this niche in hungary, a respectable conservative parties, and orman shifted strongly to the right when he shifted strongly. many believed that he would be forced to negotiate with parties on the far right, and the leader of this group is undoubtedly italian prime minister giorgio meleni, with whom orbán has been negotiating for months in a row to have his party's mps join the group in the european parliament, which is headed by representatives of the italian brothers party, but meloni told orban that please, viktor, then you have to demonstrate that you support ukraine. you do not support russian aggression, because it unites all of us who have gathered in this faction, and everyone believed that orbán's visit to kyiv, remember when they only started talking about him, was his sign of respect for

the melon, so that in a way to show that he is ready to fulfill this condition, and orbán announced a day before his visit to kyiv that he was creating his own faction in the european parliament, and again everyone accepted this. absolutely, i would say, without enthusiasm, and believed that it would be a small faction that no one was interested in, and that it would not include any serious far-right parties, in as a result, it included parties from the group previously led by the french national association led by marina le pen, this party itself became part of the orban group, bardela herself, who was to become the prime minister of france if the ultra-right won. became the leader of this group, and parties from both the le pen group, the former, and the meleni group entered. i just read today the transcript of the telephone

conversation between meleni and the leader of the vox party, abaskali, who is there, who said to meloni, something very strange, you must not understand, we have to join this group because we we are fighting for conservative voters. and maloney tells him: why then, what, what, my membership in my party, uh, my faction, prevents you from fighting with them for voters, because we have a much tougher platform on migration, and on budget policy and everything, and he never explained it to her, and i can explain that she didn't want to, he didn't want her to talk, it was precisely what separated them. to china and russia, that is, this is actually the formation of such a chinese axis on the territory of the european

union, one might say, i would say so, perhaps even chinese, to a certain extent russian , well, but chinese in the first place, well , of course, and there are leading far-right parties of all countries who do not want to be participants in this history, you understand, which is organized by meleni, that is, it turned out that by and large, by and large, we see otaku as political. the trend is very dangerous when a third group is created in the european parliament, the meleni group is only the fourth, and this group actually demonstrates that it is capable of absolutely calmly fighting for influence in to the european parliament, this is a very important moment, in fact, in this whole story, this is the kind of

situation that somehow... one way or another should demonstrate that orbán is performing these, i would say, tasks for those who would like to see a completely different, completely a different europe, a completely different situation in the north atlantic alliance, and we can predict that... that this group of orbán will expand even more, that is, can any other political forces, factions in the future, at least in the near future, join it european parliament for that, for example, the number of members in this group there exceeds 100 people, i think that it can be, for example, to the example i am leading to, for example, the same alternative for germany, i understand that it is even for

this group is quite a mess. but we understand that there is no, as they say, no limit to the impossible, that is, today in the world, in the world politics, we are observing that there is no limit to the impossible, what seemed impossible two weeks ago, today has become possible, something we didn't even think about that it will happen, it is already happening today, it is happening here on the territory of modern europe, and therefore... i am leading to this, that, for example, the same alternative for germany, which is a fairly significant faction, there are not a few man, if she joins orbán's group, and conditionally speaking, this is also possible, then in this case there will be even more of them and they will become even more influential, again, there is the same group of melons, she counts, if i am not mistaken, there are currently 60 or so men there, and they will try to split it up,

here i am too. that they will try to split it, because de facto now it turns out that there are two groups of the right in the european parliament, and it's not just in the european parliament, it's two groups in the right that have cooperated, united, in general in the european union, that is parties, these are forces, these are people who will coordinate their efforts on foreign policy, on... domestic policy, on some of their messages regarding china and regarding russia in the european union, so of course, and i am leading to the point that it is quite probable, and an alternative for germany, and there will be some tilting, trying to tilt the forces that are in maloney's group to join orbán's group, and

then the group. it will not just be powerful, it will occupy one of the leading places, well, not only, not only - look, orban wanted the polish law and justice party headed by yaroslav to join this group, they refused precisely because they don't want to support russia, huh, but he wanted the party of robert fitz , the prime minister of slovakia, to join there, they didn't want to either, because what they... a strange left-wing party, they are essentially the same, well, we laugh, but they are ideologically a left -wing party, they are social democrats, well, just like that, but today they are social democrats, tomorrow they are right-wing, tomorrow they are right-wing, you never know from these people, what to expect, so in this regard there is an absolutely obvious situation when......