for ukraine, it is somewhat easier to draw conclusions, because it became better than what we expected in a certain way, but of course, much worse than we would like, and because until the last day, although the declaration was prepared very carefully and in advance, but until the last day, there were debates about several phrases that for us, well, maybe someone considers them just linguistic equilibrium, but in fact they are very important, this is not... the path to nato, it is extremely important for ukraine, why? because the last few months have been washington himself very often sounded, and perhaps, after all, it would be best for ukraine if nato membership were left as such a certain card in the future negotiations with the russian federation, well, we understand very well that this would play a role in the movement for the russian federation, something that those who believed in ukraine's future membership in nato managed to do. to leave this phrase and strengthen

not only the euro-atlantic integration, but specifically the phrase about ukraine's membership in the alliance, i think that in the future we will still feel the positive consequences of this work. if to talk about the alliance itself, in principle everyone after its end in washington, that's who i had to talk to, i was there during the alliance, everyone called it an alliance under the auspices of the election, because it was clear that a... all allies in the first place the next concern is what will happen to the alliance if biden does not win, whether biden is able to win, and in general, what can happen to american policy, how it will affect the future of transatlantic security. and tell me something, what was said so harshly about china at this summit is this can it also be called a historical event? i would say, yes, this is a very big step forward, and let's be honest, it was a few years ago when i was accepted. not just

a declaration, but a strategic concept, a document that is adopted by the alliance once every 10 years, there for the first time china sounded like some kind of, well, not yet a threat, but already with problematic connotations, but until today, before this summit, we have a russian threat and the chinese threat were separated, last year's vilnius declaration, they understand that china is a hybrid threat there, taiwan is there for indo-pacific. region, but there was never a link, this declaration and the statements we heard during the summit very clearly did not just emphasize the destructive role of beijing, it would just be logical there, probably within the framework of some statements, but also linked china to the russian federation, to its aggression against ukraine, and emphasized that without china there could be no success for moscow either, and this is exactly what we later saw in official statements.

what angered beijing the most was china, in principle, you talked about that, about this declaration summit, by and large, does this mean for ukraine that we have some kind of promising hopelessness, well , after all, the mood there was such that everyone wants to believe in the best, and i would say in a certain way that on the one hand there was great disappointment and especially on the expert. level, at the level of former soldiers, and we had to hear what they said, well, how did we fail, and everyone called it very clearly for the first time, although if everyone knew before that who was to blame, that this was the decision of washington and berlin, but well but vilnius did not cry, after all to call them servants, here they already said absolutely clearly that this is the decision of the white house and the current office in berlin, that they are afraid of escalation, and that is why they were not ready to... put a phrase about membership,

but on the other hand, the mood were already very seriously different from vilnius, when they spoke to representatives of any other countries, even the french, whom before that we enrolled the germans and americans in the camp of skeptics, yes, here even the french said that no, if the alliance wants to ensure security of ukraine, if we want to stop this war, we must finally give ukraine very clear prospects. any additional structures are important, this is a step forward, but delaying, it is like delaying the provision of certain types of weapons to ukraine, although, let's be frank, at the strategic level, from expert to diplomatic, there are still discussions constantly, especially in washington, about the fact that if ukraine is given this perspective now, it will help ukraine in security, that is, it will be so certain, even indefensible, no one says about the fifth article. yes, about collective defense, but

about deterrence, will it be a deterrent effect for the russian federation, or will it actually be equivalent to the use of nuclear weapons, i.e., after which the russian... radio will say: what do i have to lose and will be able to provoke precisely some nato member country, that is why this fear cannot be called irrational, because the actions of the russian federation are always irrational, but this fear is very seriously followed in many discussions in high offices in washington. well, what position do you think will win in the end, or should we wait for the presidential elections? well, presidential elections. it is worth waiting for 100%, and it was also such, you know, an elephant in the dish shop, that is, it was visible to everyone, it was impossible to hide it, and that everyone had expectations, including the american delegations, and we were also a month ago in washington, met with many not

only experts, and everyone kept saying, we would like to plan something after november, but this is the first election, when we are afraid of something it's too much to plan, except for such uh... daily work, yes, how can they help ukraine, namely because if trump wins, we simply don't understand what his policy towards ukraine will be. if we talk about how the russian threat is treated in nato at the moment, it can be said that it still takes a back seat compared to china, have you noticed that? no, you know, it was very clearly visible last year, and it was visible very... in madrid, in vilnius it was still felt, especially for europeans no, for the europeans, after all, russia was already in the first place, and for the americans, and sullivan constantly emphasized this very clearly, he said that china is a greater threat than the russian federation, china has more

potential, capabilities, in the case of a direct conflict, china is more ready for provocation, and russia is more of a regional problem, but it concerns our alliance, and this year , after all, there is a clear understanding that the russian federation has become a general problem for the entire alliance, not only the baltic countries or ukraine, and the actions of the russian federation, its willingness to escalate, use any force and use more and more provocations directly against nato member countries, and of course it sounded much, well, how to say it, louder. more specifically, because, for example, they began to constantly talk not only about the standard actions of the russian federation, whether in the information sphere or in the cyber sphere, but whether there is political bribery in european countries, for example, they spoke very frankly and accused the russian federation of terrorist activities, in those

the murders that they are now against various politicians, or those who are engaged in the production of weapons, or those ... explosions that were in germany, in the czech republic, in several other countries at factories that are involved in the production of grapes, this is all frank were called terrorist acts, attributed to the russian federation, and it was said that, unfortunately, the russian federation is expanding the nomenclature of those actions that it is ready to use against european countries. i understand that georgia was not mentioned at this nato summit, it already is is not a real candidate for an alliance from the point. dear members of nato, you know that this is really the first declaration in which georgia is mentioned only once together with moldova in the phrase that the russian federation is obliged to withdraw troops from the territory, from the occupied territories of georgia and moldova. first of all, there is no separate

paragraph regarding georgia, regarding its euro-atlantic integration, and here it cannot be said that the door is closed, it is rather related to the actions of the georgian authorities, and this is in... it is given in that list of actions that took place in the last month. we had very clear and sharp statements from the european union, we had the suspension of aid from a number of european countries and from the european union. we had the cancellation of the annual military exercises between the usa and georgia, and the summit became another such demonstrative step, roughly speaking, the georgian government, we warn you. and this despite the fact that representatives of georgia were at the summit, which until the last moment was not... understood whether they would come or not, but even no statements were heard. moldova, which is neutral, sounded much louder brighter, during this summit, than georgia. thank you, thank you, ms. hanna. hanna shelest, director of security studies programs of the council of

foreign policy ukrainian prism, editor-in-chief of ua. ukrainolitika was in touch with us. we will now take a break for just a few minutes, but you will stay with us for more important conversations ahead. there are discounts that represent the only discounts on normoven 10% in travel pharmacies for you and savings. it's a lot of channels, well a lot of channels, and also movies, cartoons, series and favorite shows, turn me on on different devices without wires and antennas, and all this from uah 49 per month, its discounts represent the only discounts on eurofast softcaps, 10% in pharmacies, plantain, you and savings. in the latest edition of ukraine magazine, an interview with evstratius zorya about the challenges for the ukrainian church, the problem. lada vvedonska about the difficulties and

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the spiritual and civilizational choice made more than a millennium ago by prince volodymyr became fundamental for the creation of our state. through the centuries , this choice guided ukrainians on the path of faith, freedom and european development. he became a symbol of our irrepressible desire to independence and freedom. today, in the face of the deadly challenges of moscow's imperial aggression. we must remember our true history, our origins, value and affirm the choice made by our forefathers. in this difficult time for ukraine, we are fighting for our freedom and independence. we pray for victory over the aggressor and a just peace. may the lord strengthen each of us for further service for the good of ukraine and its pious people and help bring our common victory closer, peace for ukraine closer. god bless our soldiers, defenders and all our ukrainian people. we continue the

polyclue program on the express tv channel. of course, the main event of this day is the assassination of former american president donald trump, who is now fighting to return to the white house, and we have it. ihor eisenberg, professor of new york university, is in touch. congratulations, mr. igor. i congratulate you, mr. vitaly, i congratulate all the viewers of the channel. well, what was it anyway, do you understand? well, it was a castle, it is now. it is clear that this was indeed an attempt, and i would say trump, the second time was born, because if that bullet there had gone even less than a centimeter on a different trajectory, there would have been, there would have been dire consequences, why so many conspiracy theories, some say it was staged by

trump himself, now. in order to increase their influence, so to speak, in the election campaign, others say that they wanted to remove trump, the republicans, even some leading politicians accuse the democrats of creating such an atmosphere in the country and demonizing trump, why instead of somehow to connect, and by the way, he talks about it donald trump himself, such, how should i say it, such... such a triumph of conspiracy theory? i think there are two factors here: one factor is, unfortunately, a factor that, it is obscured all over the world right now, a lot of people, i would say hundreds of millions of people, they rather want to believe what is convenient for them to believe what they want to believe, that is why

any conspiracy theories very quickly find supporters and spread very easily. it is simply due to the presence of the internet and it is easy to spread anything, it is easy to spread information, it is easy to spread any conspiracy theory, and people believe that any conspiracy theory is more important than the facts, so if the facts contradict the conspiracy theory, then the fact, the facts are wrong, that's one factor, i'm just a lot of people for whom any simple explanation complex things, they are convenient. and the second factor, well, you just talked about it, is the political struggle that exists in the united states, it is so fierce, you see, it is already spilling over into violence, and well, so they say, there, let's say, senator vance, one of trump's nominees for

the position of vice president, he accused biden that biden is making a monster out of trump, or is it... because of biden's rhetoric, well, other republicans are doing the same thing, although trump himself called for unity, called for unity, like his wife, also with an appeal spoke, they called for rising above these contradictions, above the violence, called on him to be united, just like joe biden, addressing the americans yesterday on television, he condemned this violence for... tried the assassination attempt on trump and called for unity, he talked to trump yesterday called him, and now that you and i are on the air, somewhere it seems that right now joe biden has to speak on television again, addressing the americans for the second time in the last day. and tell me, mr. igor, why many people are starting

to say that this assassination attempt decided the presidential election, and that now, after it happened, trump is doomed to... well, it’s completely incomprehensible to me, to be honest, it’s also incomprehensible to me, i saw, in particular, in the ukrainian segment of facebook, this morning at american time, even some people write, well, that's it, everything is solved, it's absolutely not yes, because the struggle will continue, it can be tougher and will be tougher, probably than it was, but it is absolutely, absolutely nothing, how will people sympathize with trump, his arrival. the fact is that those who adore him will adore him and will continue to adore him, and even more, well, don't look, there is hardly a fight for the votes of non-party voters, well, people, people in general , normal people have empathy, that's it , if a normal person just looks, what

in this case is trump, he has it on his ear blood, blood for everything, that he... miraculously remained alive after this attempt, well, of course, ordinary people with absolutely no political views can have such empathy at the moment, but what will happen in november, no one knows knows we all have to live until november and a lot of things can change in the world, change in america, so it's not going to determine how people vote, absolutely, it's just amazing to me that every time something happens, everyone they immediately say ok. everything, everything, nothing more is possible engage, such were the comments after this first debate, now after this assassination attempt, of course, if trump was really serious. suffered or would not have died, one could say, he was definitely doomed to victory, but trump is alive and fortunately almost healthy. yes, he, fortunately

, he is really healthy, not being, not being an absolute supporter of trump politically, i cannot wish him anything bad to happen to him, absolutely, and i do not wish that to anyone, unless putin is a person, the only person in the world, to whom we are probably all we want the same thing. the pre-election struggle, it will continue, like the debate, nothing actually changed in the situation in the pre-election struggle, and it is unlikely that anything will change, after the debate, if you look at the polls in the swing states, where the fate of the election will be decided, well, how was it there when fluctuations, plus or minus 1% here and there, they remain so, and taking into account the statistical error of these polls, the chances of biden and trump winning, as they were 50 to 50, and... remain 50 to 50 in those states , where the fate of the elections will be decided, this a maximum of six or seven states, the main of which is pennsylvania, where trump spoke yesterday not

entirely by accident, in michigan, where biden spoke on friday also not by accident , and wisconsin, these three states, they play a special role, because for, say, , for biden, in order to become president , he must win these three states. and tell me, mr. igor, can we in principle say that there will be no replacement of the candidate from the democratic party, and that this situation has somehow stabilized after these famous debates, i think that most likely won't, much more likely won't, because joe biden, he, well, he spoke in michigan on friday, he absolutely said that he's staying, he's going to fight, that he... believes absolutely it is necessary to win this election and to continue doing what he is doing, he warned that trump's victory would be dangerous for

the country and for the world, he is absolutely not visible that he had any doubts and left the election, i would you know, i would also say that, well, there are, on the other hand, there are in the democratic party the same among the liberal press, there is such a certain trend. er, regarding the fact that biden should withdraw from the election, well, especially, for example, the cnn channel, he almost did not say anything either about the nato summit or about what is happening in the world, for two weeks after these debates on the cnn channel, very, well, i would say, more than 80% of his airtime, american, he devoted to discussing the fact that biden is old and so on. is different, the fact is that this situation is actually much simpler than it seems, because if we assume that biden would withdraw from the election, there is only one person who

could be a candidate like that, who could use the money raised in front of the biden campaign, and that is only kamala karis, because this money they raised, if together, because they go to pair, any other candidate would have to start the election campaign from scratch, literally, financially. without money it is impossible to conduct an election campaign in the united states, imagine how much political television advertising costs, how much it costs to organize such rallies as organized by trump yesterday, and the day before yesterday by biden, a huge amount of money is needed to have campaign headquarters in every state, and simply any other democratic candidate in this time remaining before the election will not have time to raise any money or not have time to do anything, this i would say that it's about... it would just be to help trump, kamala harris herself, she hasn't said repeatedly over the course of these two weeks that she remains the

vice presidential candidate, she's going with joe biden, she's supporting him, she's not absolutely not no is going to these suggestions that biden should withdraw from the election. and tell me, mr. igor, in principle, if we talk about the further course of events, then... this is what senator bernie sanders supported biden and called on all american democrats in the broadest sense of the word, not only supporters of the democratic party, to unite like this , how the unification was happening in france to fight back against trump, how important it is for the democratic party, this is the voice of bernie sanders, the leader of the left forces of the democratic party, it is really importantly. and bernie sandr read this article of his in the new york times yesterday, he listed on half a page of his newspaper where he does not

agree with biden, but i do not agree with this, with that. all this, but i supported him, i support him, i will support him, i urge everyone to support him, the same, by the way, did another leader of the left wing of the democratic party, alexandria kazivo cortez , congresswoman, who told television reporters just publicly and very, very firmly that she supports biden and calls for an end to all this talk about biden left the election race, it's important because the left wing in... the democratic party, it's not the majority in the democratic party, but it's his, you know, it's always very, very loud, it's heard, and that's important in order for the democratic party, because the voters of the democratic party, for them to be united around, around the idea of ​​supporting a single candidate, so that this fight is stopped, the fact is that joe biden has enough

, well i can say . iters can be said that people who don't like him, he has been in politics for a very long time, there are people who envy him, there are people who do not accept him there, and let's say when biden just started the fight to be nominated for the presidency in the 20th year, in the first four states where there were primalis, he lost those primaris, he was there in fourth place, it seems, everywhere, or even somewhere in fifth, i don't remember now, but he was nowhere even in third... he was, but in the end, that's all the democratic candidates who ran against him, they realized that he was the only one then a person who was able to defeat trump, let's not forget that trump was then the current president of the united states, and they withdrew their candidacy one by one, called to support biden, and this really contributed to the fact that the democratic voters united, and what happened after the debate, well, this current,

it... you know, disappoints many people, it does not help people to be active in any way, so that it can simply hide the fact that people will not come to the elections later and will not vote, and this, and that would be very bad but the journalists of the new york times or cnn, or the economist, they must realize this, they are not the first day involved in american politics, i think they have, frankly, for example, i have the position of such journalists as thomas... friedman , as david remnia, editor-in-chief of the new yorker, as the position of many cnn anchors, she surprised me because, well, you may not like biden, and biden did a really, really bad debate, there can be no doubt about that, but we should not only talk about the fact that biden made a mistake there, that biden, biden said this, this and that, you have to discuss what the consequences

will be if biden leaves the... the election race, what will the consequences be if trump wins? well, for example, the published project of the platform, the heritage foundation, is such an ideological headquarters of the republican party, called the 2025 project, from which trump, by the way, disavows himself, that it has nothing to do with him, but it is 995 pages long, a project to build in america, such a very right-wing, authoritarian one. of the regime , there is simply a ban, a ban on abortions, restrictions, restriction of contraceptives, access to contraceptives, dismissal of all diplomats, all professional employees of the state department on the very first day of the new presidency, dismissal of all other professional state workers, civil servants,

that means... direct federal prosecutors to the president, so that the president can appoint special prosecutors and investigate anything that will replace him, and so on and so on, this is very little discussed, in fact, we have to discuss political programs, as i it seems that there is no point in discussing personalities, because with personalities everything, well, everything is more or less clear, it is necessary to discuss programs in particular, and the elections... you expressed, it seems, even today on your youtube channel, whether or not or the other day, that this election is in a big way a referendum on whether or not donald trump can lead the country, i absolutely agree with you because, because who will be the democratic nominee, it doesn't matter in this case, and it really is, because it's a choice between where...