on espresso. see this week in the collaborators program. selling bloggers, like a resident of makiivka, a stavo of the kremlin in the temporarily occupied donetsk region. uncle vova saw what was happening and sent troops. but how did propagandist solovyov use the mariupol madonna? everyone makes their own choice. watch on tuesday, july 16 at 5:45 p.m. the collaborators program with olena kononenko on the espresso tv channel. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. it's a new week, we 're back live on the tv channel sp. presso, and now we will have 45 minutes

of analysis, discussion, conversation, on topics that concern society, that are important for our country, and that ultimately need to be talked about, even if you don't want to talk, even if you want to avoid these topics or turn a blind eye to them, we still need to talk about them, we need to discuss them, because we are a democratic country, we are a democratic society and there are... topics that we should talk about, including you. and i will remind you, before we start, that there is a survey on on our tv channel, it goes like this: do you think that trump can win the election in the united states of america, you can take your smartphones, phones, absolutely free dial 0800 211 381 if you think so. trump can win

the us election, and if you think he can't, you score 0.800 211 382. again, this is all completely free, at the end of this hour we'll tally up your vote and see what you think exactly you, well , now christina, i give you the floor, khrystyna will talk about one of those topics. which i consider important for our country. thanks to andrii, and indeed, reactions and reflections from quite, quite competent sources have been collected, which indicate that we are gradually crossing the line that oleksiy koshel and i talked about, the line where civil society begins to join in the same way...

very the sensitive topic of processes in the defense forces, especially when these processes, in view of the large amount of evidence, have certain destructive characteristics, which is what it is about, i would like to again refer to today's press conference of the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi, at which he stated that he will not yet assess the work of the commander of the armed forces oleksandr syrskyi in context. breakthrough of the russians in the kharkiv region, let's listen to the president. i do not believe that if anyone had been in syrskyi's place, there would not have been a corresponding breakthrough. i think he would have been stopped, well done, not allowed to occupy kharkiv without a package. well done and then we will deal with the details when we have a break. pause, the president says, but no

the end of the war, a realistic view, judging by the situation, the war, of insane intensity, the war of attrition continues and continues, but it would be good if the words of the president about the appropriateness of the moment to discuss certain issues were also listened to by members of his own team, well to the example of maryana bezugla, who still, let's say, declares. commitment to the decisions and opinions of the president, but systematically, systematically criticizes the command of the armed forces of ukraine, the defense forces of ukraine, and in some places , unfortunately, this does not lead to any really useful for the armed forces themselves, shifts, changes and so on. yuriy butusov, a military journalist, let me remind you that... states that for some reason

the quality of decision-making in the army is generally deteriorating, not improving, every month. why doesn't our management correct mistakes and scale up successful experiences. is necessary to win the war, because in order to give the right answers, our leaders must correctly formulate the questions: what is the main question of the kombrigi from the combatants, why are the positions lost, what is being done to restore the positions, how much is left people in the composition, why they have not been used yet, what the generals from the brigades are mainly asking, why the positions were lost, what is being done to restore the position, who will be responsible for the losses to the sbi investigator. and then mr. yuriy raises his own questions, which... are determined exclusively by the point of view, the point of sitting of this or that personality in the corresponding position. there are problems that are characterized already in absolutely specific brigades. recently , the commander of the 206th battalion of the 41st tro brigade

, roman kulyk, spoke on social networks about heavy losses as a result of the decisions of the command, which quote, cuts fantastic tasks without assessing real possibilities. personnel . as a result of such short-sightedness, stupidity or criminality, carelessness, fantastic tasks are not fulfilled, people die, fall out of order, and sometimes appetites decrease and it comes to realistic tasks, and then there is no one to fulfill them, writes kulyk. similar, similar pictures are also described by journalist anna kalyuzhna, she reported that the cumbrians... of the 24th ombr, fighting during omyar, were removed from their posts precisely because of their refusal to perform unrealistic tasks command, and here i would like to quote anya, the line has only barely stabilized, as the brigade is assigned fantastic tasks, and teams that try to come out of

reality, not fantasy, are removed, fantastic tasks, no one canceled them, and if we talk about 59 legendary brigade and... yakova handzyuka, the volunteer paramedic kateryna polishchuk ptashka, who defended azovstal, visited polonia and returned from it, appeals to the president, due to the inhumane and unprofessional attitude of commander shevchuk, i am forced stop cooperation with this famous brigade, and not everyone has such an opportunity to resist a criminal order, which is aimed exclusively at obtaining additional stars for this person, something similar was also written by alina mykhaylova the other day. who with her ulf now also cooperates with the 59th brigade and says that it is quite difficult to communicate with the command, in particular purely on its medical line, there are problems: the ukrainian army

is a large army, and it is difficult to imagine being in such a living organism there were no problems. on the other hand, when and in which moment... the degree of tension is growing so much and the fighters who are forced to turn to civil society are not heard to such an extent that finally civil society has to get involved a little, well, if even mr. sternenko came out with a stream on youtube today, with a problem that is connected precisely anyway , with the 59th brigade, the 41st brigade, well, we can talk about the fact that even volunteers cannot stand aside, what is this story about for you, andriy? but at this stage, well, this story shows that the ticket-bouquet the period in the war, the great war, which has been going on since february 24, 22, and the real war in our country

has been going on since february 20, i want to remind everyone of the year 2014, that is, it will soon be 11 years, yes, but unfortunately, i here... i will make a digression, unfortunately, the first seven or eight years, the majority of the population did not feel it, did not associate themselves with it, well, there is no war somewhere, but there is no war, for the majority there was no war, politicians for the majority , the majority of the population, well, they did not pay attention to the war, we saw the consequences, that very many people did not pay attention to the war, the 22nd year is a huge... elation, a huge desire of people to help, to unite, to finally understand that we have an enemy, an ancient enemy, and this unity, in fact, it was on almost everyone levels of ukrainian

society, from the lowest to the highest, even in power structures, even in matters of power, opposition, various political forces for some period, some not... period there was this unity, why i call it the ticket-bouquet period, because there was a certain consensus in society, in the vision society. of its role of the role of the military in society, we unfortunately as of now, as of now, we see that this period, it's actually ended, uh, it's ended with the things that we talked about in our past programs, when we talked about different the unity of certain people, about absolutely destructive things that are happening, but unfortunately, these destructive things are now spreading to ukraine. army, why? because the ukrainian army, it will not, cannot be

separated from society, the ukrainian army, the ukrainian armed forces, the defense forces of ukraine, it is a component of ukrainian society, it is a component of the ukrainian state, it is also a reflection of the ukrainian state, it is a reflection of ukrainian society, we cannot detach and say that we are sorry, the army is separate, the state is separate, and the people, who live in ukraine, it's... ugh, that's why we really need approaches, approaches, professional approaches to prevent this from happening. these processes, unfortunately, did not start now, they started back in 2003 in 2023, when maryana bezugla joined the struggle against zaluzhnyi. we remember that in general , where did it all begin, when throughout the fall and winter of the 23rd and 24th years, we saw just plain open harassment, harassment of the top military

leadership in our country. we see that no conclusions can be drawn from this in many aspects. on the other hand , we see that there are problems that are signaled by the military, because, for example, we, sitting here in the studio, we are civilian people, it is difficult for us... and in general, we should not give any evaluations to this, that decision, which are accepted by the military leadership, because we don't know, we don't see, we can't feel the whole picture, but when the military speaks, when the volunteers speak, when the people who are nearby speak and they point out mistakes, problems, extraordinary things of such... of a semi-catastrophic nature that concerns human lives, then of course we must

reflect, we must help these people, convey their position to the leadership of the state, to the leadership of the ministry of defense, well, because if our military, which has problems, they don't hear, then it will affect what, it will affect first of all at the front, it will affect people's motivation, we now have a big problem with that, and the sociological polls, by the way, that were conducted, that's- today society saw that there is a huge demotivation of people regarding the armed forces of ukraine, this is, this is a problem, and these are mistakes that, unfortunately, were laid not yesterday, and not today, that were laid back in the 22nd in 23 years by the authorities. that did not communicate, that did not explain, laws that were not adopted, the necessary, necessary base, which should

have been adopted in 22, all this was postponed for some reason, again for what, for political reasons, for the reasons that someone needs to score political points, or not to lose them, or not to lose them , someone needs to show their face, someone is preparing one way or another for the elections, and... and there is, and there is a big problem now that society, and the army, and the state, they are slowly starting to move away from each other. russia is actually here in this case, well, it is happy, because, well, that's what they need. why did ukraine survive in the 22nd year? why did ukraine fight back against these moscow terrorists? because we united in one fist. because we overcame some of our differences, because we,

because it was burning, let's say so, because, because ukrainians, well, ukrainians in general have this trait, when at such an extreme moment, at the most terrible moment, they quickly unite, take everything into a fist and not allow yourself to be destroyed, but as soon as he lets go a little somewhere, a little somewhere, this all starts, how much there for two, for two. cossack, three hetmans, this is us very often, it is not only about this situation, it is about the political and social situation in our country in general, in many spheres. well, i will say this, on this crazy jump of cortisol, a nationwide jump, it would probably hardly be possible to go far, so this is a matter of total unity, all love for each other, lord, i remember these feelings, as now, in moment, any disagreements, any shortcomings,

anyone is forgotten, so that everyone survives, so that everyone is whole, and in general it was difficult to imagine that there would be... what kind of struggle of unhealthy meaning with each other could appear again in our country, but no, we see that it appears, and that this state of stress has normalized, normalized , which we entered in february 2022, and even in this state, in order to survive , we must continue to change, because andrei, when we talk about our approach to the north atlantic... alliance, or our approach to the european union, in the future generally entering and there and there, we, even in this studio, regularly emphasize, no matter how difficult it may be, but in parallel with resisting russian aggression, we also have to change, standardize with these organizations in order not to stop our progress with them, so

it is very important to change and discuss, and this is very important for ukrainian. troops, i would like these discussions to take place within the ukrainian army itself, but what to do if this communication does not develop properly, what to do when, on the one hand, tomorrow is july 16, and this is the extreme limit when it is possible to update their data to all conscripts in the context of the recently adopted law on mobilization, on the other hand, we understand that someone can probably afford decisions due to which people are lost on one or another part of the front, and sometimes it is already about some kind of systematicity, again, i now refer to those authoritative opinions that were actually quoted to you on the air, there are other opinions, for example, a serviceman

of the armed forces of ukraine, a participant in the revolution of dignity, a public figure, viktor mishchyshyn, believes that criticism of the military leadership should have... its limits, so as not to play along with the enemy, our toleration in the information and social space of that wave, which can be conventionally called the marcus wave of the cornerless, to which some new public figures join, is a direct road to defeat, and yes, the golden mean , which should be, should be in this situation, when on the one hand the command hears its fighters, on the other hand the fighters understand that things are going to extremes. grueling struggle with the russian federation, and civil society fulfills its role without interfering in no way to the issue of the military, this is ideal, but yuriy betusov believes that there is a politicization of processes in the armed forces, when certain political motives are somehow achieved and fulfilled through orders in the armed forces,

or is it, well, it is impossible to tell exactly eh... who is bad, who is good, because there have already been so many scandals , i apologize, on her political path, and how many absolute lies have been poured out on many ukrainian military leaders, then here it is definitely not, no, it is not up to mariana to tell who is bad , who is good, i still am once i emphasize, in my opinion... specifically , only those people who understand this and who are directly involved in this process can talk specifically about the military leadership or about specific people of the armed forces in ukraine, because it is a process that exists, well, it is not in the open, it 's normal, this is the army, if all this is

open, this process will be open, in that case the enemy will know absolutely everything, so those people who know about... that's right, they have the right to speak and they should speak up if there are any problems, but when they speak up some kind of tainted politicians who add to this political subtext, moreover, i am convinced that these politicians are not, it is not their independent voice, well, i never believe that maryana bezugla can independently do such an activity to conduct, which she has been conducting for how long, well, practically a year. i believe that this is a person who most likely does this by some arrangement. look, in fact, after all that she threw mud at... the ukrainian military leadership, she continues to be on those important, in fact, positions in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, in which she is now, and there are no questions for them, there are no questions for her, and

to exclude her from the faction, we remember what the process was, if i am not mistaken, her so far it has not been finalized there, it is this exclusion, it will be necessary, it will have to be looked at, because there were certain legal nuances. that is, a person is purposeful, purposefully engaged in a certain political killing, whether or not, and what to do with that, well , at this stage, er, at this stage, what ms. bezugla writes about in principle confirmed by other people who, well, let's say, have authority among the military and have experience in general. coverage of military topics, and some of them are directly military, i think that such people have the right to speak, i have already said about it, these people have the right, if this issue is not resolved internally, they have the right

to speak about what is certain the problem is, well, it can’t, well, we have to understand that there can’t be complete silence, well, it can’t be like that, because it’s a matter of human lives, the question of human lives, it is necessary if it is not solved internally. anything inside the armed forces of ukraine, inside some unit or inside some authority, inside some law enforcement agency, of course, that there are people who have the right, who specifically have the facts, they come out with these facts, and they speak, they can submit officially a complaint to some law enforcement agency, and they can report it, and i won't consider it a political attack on anybody, because these are people who by their... actions proved, and they have the right, thanks to these actions, thanks to their direct participation in these units, they have the right to say this, and

if people who are not, well, who are not involved in this, who were constantly engaged in political provocations, then yes, these people are probably just using it for their political points, uh, and maybe some other specific political goal. including those people who stand behind them, it's just that if we speak in general, when we first started, in general, we have a colossal lack of communication about laws, we have a huge lack of communication about the actions of citizens, what citizens should do, we have a huge lack of communication about certain algorithms, but we just mentioned the mobile law. and here there is a crazy lack of communication, when dozens of messages are sent out every day from different structures, from different representatives, and very often these messages do not even correspond

to each other, and people do not know, we apologize, but how to interpret the law in such a case, here andriy , i want to weed a little, it would be nice for people to learn sometimes to open and read and understand what our laws are about, at least the ones already adopted, i'm not talking about individual ones. draft laws that are being prepared for adoption or voting in general, ukrainians do not read the laws that then importantly regulate their lives, and this is a shortcoming of all of us, but the other side of the coin, how these laws are implemented, absolutely, the other side, but now in this context, about which we say, it is important how this or that law is implemented and whether it is implemented, whether there is a different reading of this law by someone, it is the same with us. this is an old one the problem of ukraine, what we take, we take one law, we read it, we - we read it,

someone sees another, the ministry of defense sees one thing, the tsk sees another, the border guards see a third, some people do not see, some people do not see, some, there are many lawyers, for example, who are also all this in different ways. they see it, and that's all, and we see, we, we get a million opinions, a million different interpretations of one law, that is , the first is the issue of implementation, and the second issue is the issue of the imperfection of legislation very often, and the creation of certain loopholes in this legislation, when it can really be interpreted according to one, according to the second, or according to the third, and then the question is for... legislators, and what have you, dear gentlemen, been doing for so long that you did not create legislation that, well, is ideal legislation does not exist,

but which will be at least with... understandable, close to the question of legal processes in general, and one that will correspond, well, if not to modern challenges, then to the spirit of the law, although this is also a big problem that we today we will receive, we have adopted laws of various kinds in the last six months, and very often these laws do not have, or rather they have different kinds. what is being done next, for example, now we often see the situation there , for example even with mobilization, the government already issues by-laws, because this law is very often not complete, it is necessary to issue more by-laws, these by-laws are hundreds of pages, if not thousands of pages, and there is also very often no correspondence, no answer to the question of what to do in option a, what to do in option b, what to do in option

c. and again, everyone begins to interpret already these by-laws are completely in their own way, this is also a problem. i understand that it is a war, i understand that people are not electrified, i understand that there is often not enough time to complete something, but for that we have a huge army of officials, deputies, their assistants, in order to do all this . well, at least close to the ideal, eh, and at least, and at least to control then the authorities that implement these laws or bylaws, because what we see in the information space lately is very often violations current legal norms and different interpretations of these legal norms, something must be done with this, well, i'm sorry, because really since july 16.

the situation will become more and more electrified in society, if, if not, you know, everything is written clearly, clearly, explained, and the main thing is to be carried out clearly, clearly and clearly, and this applies to any sphere, absolutely any sphere , because we in ukraine have a big problem with this. you know, you and i just talked about unity in the context of the ukrainian state and that it is possible for us only in... in purely critical moments, the same thing is happening in the united states these days, and it 's about unity again, you know, and that's nice, nice, whatever that sounds like, because the situation with the assassination of donald trump could be used for political purposes by trump himself and maga, the association that supports him and all the voters who are ready to vote for him under any circumstances in

order to... drown, drown, drown both the healthy wing of the republicans and, of course, the democrats , because they actually oppose them, but, after the assassination attempt on, as i understand, the soon -to-be official candidate for the presidency of the republican party, donald trump, the current president, joseph biden, demonstrated his composure, his maturity and his real political weight, who ... called for the unity of the country, who called for taking a few steps back to understand that this high degree of polarization is too much, no matter how heated the political battles, it cannot all turn into an act of violence, and few of mr. trump's critics and skeptics expected what he in his rhetoric, ah... will

talk about something like that, he says, and this is actually, first of all, to the credit, probably, donald trump will be told, but most of all to the credit of america, american society, which also a little bit, i think, sobered up, this episode with the attempt on one of the candidates, so the republican convention in milwaukee, which is happening right now, as we speak, plus or minus, as i understand it, they have to nominate for office from the republican party, he had already changed his speech earlier planned, after having experienced an assassination attempt, he has already called for this convention and in general for the communication of nikki haley, who for a long time was his opponent in these primaries within the republican party, and donald trump goes out on rhetoric. a responsible

politician.