our center in gdańsk has been operating for 10 years, and our friends were inspired to create a similar center in lviv. we talked about it 4-5 years ago, there was once such an idea to create in lviv, for example, a permanent exhibition about the multiculturalism of the city, to teach tolerance to many cultures , to show how important lviv is for dialogue. this second phase of the war, of course, changed priorities, so of course it is about democracy, but it is more about... showing the traditions of ukraine first of all, those democratic, anti-communist, anti-imperial so this declaration was signed because we, as the gdańsk center , took our money in hand and are preparing an exposition that we want to open in lviv in a year. and it should be an exhibition in ukrainian, english and polish, which tells about the ukrainian path to independence, about the democratic traditions of ukraine, but also about the importance of relations between poles and ukrainians for peace in the central region. so that the world will understand why we

are defending ukraine together today? it should be such a business card for the world that the world understood why we are today jointly defending ukraine, against whom, what values ​​we are talking about. so in a year we want to open a big exhibition in the palace of arts, which will be on display for probably a year. for me, for the head of the kdan center, this is a bit of a continuation. of our permanent exposition, here you have to understand that the european solidarity center is 1 ml2 of guests per year, it is not a small institution, it is one of those institutions that offered europe a new history, and it has great commercial success. from those funds that we earn for tickets to gdansk, we want to do this exhibition in lviv, because we feel that europeans have no memory.

and putin does not accept this. he is an actor of 1989 . at that time he was an officer of the kgb of the vndr. in germany , he had to stop this revolution. it was his great defeat, because he did not stop. and now he is again trying to destroy the positive results of these changes. and they do not concern only ukraine. and this does not only apply, as we know it, to the former territory of the soviet union. this applies to all of central and eastern europe. i would even say. that's all

of the european order, because poland's accession to nato and the eu also changed international politics, he wants to destroy it all, and we protect it all. this exhibition will be in lviv, or maybe it will also go somewhere else in europe. i have a different philosophy, we need symbolic places. our center in gdańsk is located on the former territory. we have a lot of graveyards after a lot of warriors, we have a lot of negative symbols like that. we have few democratic places, the maidan is such an important place for europeans. it is very important for me that europeans came to lviv and saw that exhibition in the context of the city. and we know

that today lviv is ukraine's window to the world, the world to ukraine, so my dream is that the political elites who travel through lviv to kyiv stop in lviv and realize what we are protecting right now. there is also the idea of ​​this exhibition, a very specific thing that we want to do. now young people in different european countries admire him? they say that it was a very good regime, that people lived well, that people got housing, had money to to be treated and so on, but at the same time they do not mention what happened to democracy, actually in the soviet union, where there was communism.

but we will also live well if it is a society based on human rights, if others will also be well. this is europe, in which nations cooperate, poles, ukrainians, have a complicated history, but we are looking for something that is close, let us be brothers and sisters,

cooperation in general, but also this is very important, civic consciousness, which is like such a cake for several floors, you are from lviv, i am from denmark, ukrainian, polish. but we are also europeans, we are also responsible for the world. and what is it about now? for many years, we have had a second wave of authoritarian thinking, it is being carried out very deliberately, it is big money. of course, this is russia, this is china, this is iran. it's also, unfortunately, trump, it's the populists. topulischi elections are going on in france, le pen, they say, why should you be european, why be responsible for the world, it is enough to be a pole, a ukrainian, a frenchman, the problem is nationalism, and we cannot solve anything with nationalism now, in russia it is, of course, russian imperialism in the role of nationalism, but

selfishness is also very dangerous, that is, why do we need human rights, this is a luxury, let's build prosperity, capitalism, a prosperous society, a global power, like china on authoritarianism. what you said is important here, those who remember authoritarianism, fascism, communism know that it is bad. lech wałęsa is very interesting, the worker made a revolution, because he not only said, as a worker, you, the communist, supposedly workers' party, do not represent me, but he did not say that it is necessary to create another the workers' party, he said, monopolies are bad, i as a worker will live well only in a democratic society,

and 80% of people are taught to live consciously today, not to be manipulated, to create communities at every level, local, national, global good people this war is not only here, this war has been political for

a long time in other countries, also democratic ones. i also partially live in germany, in berlin, a pro-putin alternative for germany. uses these new technologies together with china, which is a very dangerous rival, in fact, to create authoritarianism. this authoritarianism is also, for example, anti-emancipatory against women, according to a very traditional model, right? is homophobic, racist, uses everything to sow hatred against people. you are in ukraine, you talk to ukrainian politicians, you would now appreciate what is happening with ukrainian democracy, because recently

in our ukrainian information space there are opinions that in this struggle against russia, against its authoritarianism, the main thing is not to turn into the same russia. first reaction that is not diplomatic, where ukraine is today, because for me. ukraine is also in poland, in germany, i live in denmark and berlin, and these cities have become ukrainian in a good sense. therefore, politics and ukrainian culture are now not only in the country, but in germany and poland, it is precisely participation in democracies that are very alive, which fortunately do not function under martial law. we all understand the exceptional legal situation of ukraine, the elections are postponed this year, but this is a huge test of maturity for everyone

politicians because this martial law is a protection, but it should not be a limitation of political culture. all participants must understand that certain democratic processes are not possible, for example elections, to be fair, because it is unrealistic. implement utopian plans, it is very wise, not even knowing when this war will end.

has very close relations with mariupol, we got acquainted with the plans for the reconstruction of mariupol, today it is very symbolic, but very important, because these thoughts about the future are what saves and strengthens ukrainian democracy despite martial law, and i think that ukraine will come out of this war with great losses, because it is terrible... i think that poland is now after a difficult experience, in poland we had a peaceful revolution of society, people want democracy, they also want a strong against putin poland, a strong europe and very democratic, and our two countries can be such engines in general for the restoration of democracy in europe, this is a great chance for us. if

we talk about relations between poland and ukraine. at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, poland became side by side with ukraine, and it was a very big help. now ukrainians say that they feel a certain coldness between our countries. partly, obviously, there is the hand of the kremlin here, which influences the fact that our... according to research, only 17% of poles say that, according to the latest sociological polls , they could accept refugees from ukraine, while not long ago it was 37%.

i have personally been involved in the polish-german dialogue many times.

was not a member of nato, and the germans did not allow people to wait so long at that border. of course, there is trade should be controlled, but not people, everything was done to have active contacts, tourism, cultural exchanges. this border is also because of us poles, a border further to another political system, not to brothers and sisters. i am outraged by the discussion about the supposed competition in general.

after the victory, but at the same time it can be a competitor for poland, there is always competition, only in the end competition, and this is the nature of the free market system, it strengthens both sides, different characters, there is no one who wins, because monopoly - this is in an authoritarian society, but what it is about, not enough polish political elites, as well as journalists, talk about the chances. look, the pro-european majority won in poland, but we have more than 40%, i.e. 48%

of the anti-european, confederation, confederation, anti-ukrainian party. unfortunately, the dog is pro-ukrainian once, and then anti. president duda seems to be out of his mind right now, but he went there these days to see the president of china. i am very sorry, china is most interested in making this war last a long time. that's why it is i have to tell you, as a citizen and an expert, it annoys me. i believe that we are not doing enough. but we are also lacking on both sides.

when we started talking about ukraine and its future in the european union, now the negotiations on ukraine's accession to the eu have actually started. for poland, the path to the european union lasted 10 years, and this despite the fact that poland did not have a war, i hope, and will not have one. polish society is not as polarized as ukrainian society, because ukraine was divided.

for my generation it started back in 1991 year at the time of the fall of the soviet union. in the end, the two countries that stalin occupied, the baltic states, became part of the european union, so nato and the eu entered the former soviet space. it was about stopping

putin's actions regarding the blocking of a very specific road, that is why the conflict in ukraine is a european conflict, in response to your question, there is a certain paradox for me from the second moment.

this is a completely new experience for the european union, it is a theme inseparable from military experience. yesterday we were at the mayor's office sydovoy, who spoke about a very important topic, discovery.

an optimist let's look at the eu member state that is divided, that is the child of the conflict between turkey and greece, cyprus. of course, it is a small country, but every country is important. there was also a similar conflict here, but the eu said: cyprus, despite the conflict, despite the borders, despite the turkish language, should be part of europe. this is a matter of lobbying. each expansion is something subjective, it is about imagination, how we imagine europe, and our actions by poles and ukrainians are very important to show

europeans that europe is incomplete without ukraine. we are creating that exhibition because we need to explain to europeans, because they don't know what ukraine is europe, and for this we have democratic traditions, not only in the last 30 years, we need to teach a lot, we need to expand our horizons. bardzo trzeba rozszerzać horyzonty. polska had a great chance, because solidarność was a gigantic movement. poland has a great chance, because solidarity was a huge movement, it was created by 10 million people. support the pope, but also had great sympathy for very intelligent politicians, mazowiecki, geremyk, wise people, writers, intellectuals, cinema, culture, so it is not only politics, but i am an optimist, because today ukraine is a giant in the barn, for example, literature, it is culture, which incredibly enriches europeans, so we must remember all this together.

two things can be said. one is that the european union cannot wait too long with this, because poland has been fully democratic for 35 years. 35 latna, od 20 latna, but powiem pany sh, 20 years in the european union, but i will tell you sincerely, only joining the eu gave such strength, as well as a sense of security for investors. before that, poland was very democratic, but only accession gave poland such a civilizational leap. and it's not because

the money came. why did we poles fight for an independent court?

it seems to me that this is a ukrainian discussion, the quality of ukrainian democracy, you should take care of it. for you, this is definitely true, if ukraine does not satisfy you as a democracy, it will harm both itself and the rest of the european union.

we talked before that: in my childhood i experienced war in iraq, because he is half polish, half iraqi. i don't like the word war, because you can also speed up and intensify the war by talking a lot about it, but looking as detached as possible, that is, from my perspective, we already have a gigantic global conflict, which is actually a war of those authoritarian countries against the wave of democracy. look, we have a war in ukraine, this is the crimean war, like in the 19th century, it is about the future of russia, then russia and the country were also measures. but the reason for the crimean war was the question of what will be further in the near east. today, unfortunately, we have a war in the middle east, and the participant is not hamas and israel is a participant in it.