after the war, god forbid, we will live, it will be studied by lawyers, eh, because in principle the szh, the arbitrary remaining parts, and desertion have always been considered a serious crime, especially during the war, well, a serious crime, it is as serious as it is for it heavy punishments are provided for, but we decided by consensus that in the extraordinary situation in which we are, we should introduce a quasi-amnesty, and that bill... which was really voted in the first reading yesterday, it really gives an opportunity to a person , which committed such an offense for the first time, well , in fact it is a crime, uh, then such a person, if there is no court verdict yet, is given the opportunity to apply to the prosecutor's office, or to apply to the court, if the case is already in court, with a statement that she is ready return to walkthrough. military service, and this will be

the basis for release from responsibility, she will not be prosecuted, that is , the fact of committing a criminal offense will not even be recorded, while you correctly said in principle what release and return to troops will be with the consent of the commander, but i will tell you that there was a very big discussion, what does the commander mean, which... commander, since a significant number of these internal conflicts are connected precisely with the commanders of the respective units where such and such military personnel served , then after a very long debate, together with the ministry of defense, we came to an agreement that the word commander means not only the commander who was directly the commander of such a serviceman, but more... any

commander who agrees to take such a serviceman to his unit under his command, i.e. the logic is that if the reason for the szh was a conflict with the commander, then it is absurd to expect that the return of this serviceman to the same commander will end in something good, so we decided to interpret the concept of commander in this article in this way , although... from a legal point of view, there is still work to be done there, once again i confirm that yesterday the verkhovna rada voted on it only in the first reading, accordingly there will be 14 days for providing amendments and proposals, i don't remember for sure, there were a lot of things yesterday, did we shorten the deadline, because usually we sometimes shorten it from 2 pm to 7 pm, but there will still be time, and i think that in the work of the verkhovna rada there will be a certain break, i mean the sessions of the verkhovna rada. at the beginning of august, that is, there will be time

, probably at least three weeks, in order to try to write down all these points as clearly as possible with military lawyers, with lawyers of the committee, and with deputies of the law enforcement committee, because at the moment i am very worried about law enforcement , that is, how will it be applied in real life in general, but i think that it is theoretically and practically possible, so i can predict that probably somewhere in the middle of august, the verkhovna rada will be able to consider this draft law in its final version and approve it as a law . i spoke with many military personnel on this topic, but yesterday i literally spoke with roma kostenko , my colleague from the voice, and we all agree that this is a useful initiative in the conditions in which we now find ourselves. it is really necessary to give

an opportunity to correct the mistake to the people who made it did, and moreover, to give an opportunity to eliminate the cause of this error by sending the serviceman for further service in other military units, well, somewhere in general, such a construction, actually, i think, i explained it clearly, and mr. andriy, you explained it very clearly, even clarify here i didn't have to, and then we'll see each other on the air to... to discuss closer to the point when the amendments, i understand, will be made, discussed with the military lawyers, as you mentioned, so thank you for coming in and talking about that , as in the parliament plans to respond to these problematic moments, which are actually already being discussed in society, i am also talking about desertion, arbitrary leaving of a part, this worries people. andrii osachuk, first deputy chairman of the verkhovna rada of ukraine's law enforcement committee from the voice faction, was a guest of svoboda ranok. we continue this

topic, so you can react and write your questions in the comments. some servicemen leave the military units in order to go even outside the country. about two such cases with fatalities the consequences became known in the last week. on july 14, in odesa region, four servicemen escaped from the training center and tried to illegally cross the state border of ukraine with moldova. they got to the border by taxi, and when the border guards noticed them, they began to chase them, and the soldiers fled accordingly. according to the state border service, one of the soldiers wanted to attack a border guard, who in response... used a table weapon. now the state bureau of investigation is investigating the circumstances of the death of this serviceman under time of attempted illegal border crossing. and the american edition of the wall street journal wrote about another case that happened back in december last year. journalists told the story of a soldier who also died during

an attempt to illegally cross the border in transcarpathia through the tisza river. border guards found his body. the story of this soldier is told to journalists by his mother and brothers. according to the mother, her son, who was 32 years old, was on vacation and decided to run away due to the impossibility of demobilization. at that time, he participated in hostilities for two years. this is what forces the actual military personnel to risk going to prison, or even to die, but to flee from units and brigades. what is the morale of the military now and is there anyone to help them? let's talk further. yaroslav lysenko, alias bugai, officer, psychologist. of that battalion, the freedom of the fourth brigade of the operational assignment of rubizh of the national guard of ukraine. welcome to our broadcast, thank you for joining. good morning, greetings to everyone. and how would you describe the moral and psychological state of the military in the armed forces now, is it worse, for example, than it was in the previous year, and how do you

measure it, and does anyone in the army follow, not in words, but in practice, this morale of servicemen. well, look. today's moment we deviate a little from radan standards, although for me the word moral and moral-psychological is also acceptable, but today it is a psycho-emotional state, so if we talk about the psycho-emotional state a year ago and now, well, judging by our unit, nothing has worsened , everything is normal, and you understand to talk in general about the emotional state and psychological. the state of a military serviceman, it is necessary to work with him practically for years, that is , starting with the course of a young fighter and ending with support when leaving the front line, during entry to the front line, during coordination, conducting team building, and trainings, and

some tests that show skrinyat, psychological state, this is all a very large and systematic work that allows not only so... during coordination and training to learn to run well after an armored personnel carrier, not only to learn to idle and shoot, not only to learn to attack landings or repel the enemy from some positions there, and to be morally very stable, as you said at the beginning, and emotionally stable and psychologically very prepared, this is very important, because psychology has the same rights as physiology ... plays a lot, and we know that there are many cases when a person is very well physically prepared and a high specialist in loading, shooting and so on and so on, but if he is not psychologically ready for those conditions that can to wait for the ground to go wave by wave, when

the first shells lie somewhere near him, he may scream, and there may be hysterical reactions, anything, so here it is necessary to... prepare him for these situations, prepare his comrades who will to him as the first psychologists, the first friends who will come to help, this is a very big job, and if you compare last year, well, you know, i am fighting in the 14th year, uh, and the moral, psychological, and emotional state is at a very high level, for my division i am calm, as it happens in others subdivisions, when they don't prepare, or it's all ticked off, er, because of a tick that was prepared, well... i can't judge, it seems to me that it's probably a little worse. that is, mr. yaroslav, in the unit, the commander must also monitor whether a person is ready to perform tasks, not only from a technical point of view, but from a psycho-emotional point of view, i understand correctly, when this is followed in principle, then it is possible to avoid any more global problems,

necessarily, even if the soviet system is used there, subordination and in general distribution in the army, then... even there were zampolits who followed it, and now we have a zamporos, work with personnel, in every company, in every unit there is such a person, he not only accounts. personnel, he not only makes sure that no one goes anywhere and so on, does not keep lists, he must really observe and warn about crisis situations that arise in any soldier, because we all experience those stressful situations that happened in the war, those who have not yet been in the war, he experiences it the uncertainty that awaits him in the future, and it is desirable to talk about all these moments, all... these moments are desirable to sweep up, pass on, or talk to the soldier personally, zam

poroz for work with personnel can do it, the commander can do it too companies, the platoon commander can do it and so on, if not, and these problems are already more specific, they are some accentuations or some that are no longer clinical, but moments that can affect both the team and the soldier very seriously, here. .. then a psychologist is already included and up to rehabilitation, psychological rehabilitation, which is also available in the army and the ministry of internal affairs, and there are centers in which treatment is not carried out, it is not medical, non-clinical, it is not clinical psychology, it is rehabilitation, there are also rehabilitation centers to which guys who survivors suffering from the initial stages of ptsd and other disorders that are inevitable in this war. no, no one will come out of this war mentally healthy, normal, we are not murderers, not serial

killers, we have not sat, well, most of us have not sat in prison, for us to kill people is is not typical, it is not normal, so we will all experience the death of our brothers and sisters, and something flew in, rattled so that it shook for three days, and other moments that are uncharacteristic of a person in 2024, but unfortunately, which are now ending you have to do everything. healthy men who have legs and arms. yaroslav, according to your observations, maybe not only in your part, but also what you know, are more people fleeing from part of the brigade from training centers, those who joined the service now, or those who have been fighting for several years , and these people really tired without holidays, without demobilization? well, look, in my memory, i can't say when i contacted you and understood. in general, the topic of conversation is desertion in general, i have not used such a word,

probably since the very beginning of the war, well, i am like that , for me it is some kind of crime and treason is so very large-scale, if you call it, as we call the sdf arbitrarily abandoned parts, that is, if a person, then there are two moments, one moment is when we rest, then we go through coordination in a conditionally peaceful territory somewhere at the landfill, such... cases happen, unfortunately, they are connected, they are isolated, i will say right away, isolated, there are no mass evacuations there, there are vaults or, well, this is completely unacceptable, i have not met such a thing, they are isolated , as a rule, related to alcohol abuse and, unfortunately, drugs, there are also situations when we submit a person to the szz, but he has some family circumstances, or simply physically he could not be in a timely manner... to be on the lineup and so on, but each case is dealt with personally, we always understand what is going on

as a rule, these people are heroes, they have already gone through the millstone of war, they showed themselves very well, and now they have failed, we always give this person the opportunity not to go to prison, but to be effective on the battlefield, that is, to return to the command of the unit and fulfill his constitutional duty connection, i emphasize not the desire to protect. the homeland, and as it is written in the constitution the duty to defend the homeland, therefore everything is considered very individually here, as far as the front line is concerned, i have never met the szh directly from the front line, well, maybe there is such a thing, there are refusals some and so on, we work with it, that is , starting with a banal conversation, the pressure of the team on this person, but this is all gentle and very careful, because we understand that people, that a person has experienced, that he is now again in stress is present, and it must be helped,

not punished, therefore, on the front lines, as a rule, everyone gathers, everyone is as mobilized as possible, as clear as possible, as confident as possible, and fight like gods, like warriors, like heroes, so on the front lines much less problems than when we are in a conditionally peaceful state territory thank you, thank you for joining, yaroslav lysenko. pseudo bugai, an officer-psychologist of the third svoboda battalion, of the fourth operational brigade of the rubizh national guard of ukraine, was a guest of svoboda morning. thank you. in the comments, write about your experience, especially if... you are a military serviceman or you are a family member of a military serviceman and you may know about such cases as how to prevent it, how to help military personnel with a psycho-emotional condition, write in the comments, share your thoughts and observations. this is svoboda ranok, my name is kateryna nekrecha, we are with you every weekday from 9:00 a.m., join us, thank you for being with us and take care. attention,

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now, order the tonometer safe pro at a special reduced price of only uah 499. a do not hurry while the product is available! unpack health with unpack tv, call! we continue the broadcast on the espresso tv channel, at 9:48 a.m. andriy osadchuk, people's deputy of ukraine, is already on the phone with us. mr. andriy, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. good morning. mr. andriy, let's start from resonant the morning is like this, anxiously waiting. i'm talking about business. colonel roman chervinskyi, it seems that a decision has been made, but they have been dragging for an hour in a row to release him, what is going on? well, you probably don't need to ask me, i just know that the deposit was made yesterday, my colleagues showed proof of payment

documents that it was made, i heard a lawyer yesterday who also confirmed that... the money was made, but in fact it's always there there are some procedural issues, but they should be resolved very quickly. as much as i i understand, at the moment of our conversation, chervinskyi is still behind bars, i personally very much expect that this epic will end today, but again, we need to communicate more, probably with lawyers who directly understand what and how it is happening. yes, well, they are trying not to comment now, because in easy expectation that maybe on the threshold of... they will present something else again and pack it back behind bars, well, let's wait better and not talk about any assumptions and rumours, i hope that part of this popery today will end, as of today, by the way, if yes, yes, if it is interesting, it is certainly interesting, i will briefly inform you about one initiative

that the verkhovna rada is currently considering at the request of our special services. and the security services of ukraine and others involved there, let's say this, in reality in ukraine, there is no exemption from liability for persons who conduct counter-intelligence or intelligence operations, and during which damage occurs or some offense is committed, such exemption is for persons who in ... entered into the criminal structure organizations, well, agents of criminal organizations, and their activities are not considered a crime, but in relation to counter-intelligence. and intelligence officers , there is no exemption, and just last week there was a very detailed discussion with the leadership of the sbu, with gur, budanov came to us with

malyuk, there were many respectable people there, and we agreed that we will introduce exemption from responsibility for persons , which conduct an agreed counter-intelligence and reconnaissance operation. in the course of which a crime may be committed, but such a crime will not be to be considered a crime, that is, such innovations will be in the ukrainian legislation, and it is possible that it will also facilitate the consideration of such cases as the case we started talking about. mr. andriy, yesterday was also the last day when conscripts can update their data, since you are a representative of a specialized committee, or one of the committees involved in this situation, starting today. fines should be issued to all those who will update their data further. we previously talked with lawyers, with lawyers, they say that it is not clear whether for all or for

at will, for, well, as if so, and, at the will of the tsc will choose there who will be written off and who will not, in a word, in your opinion, what can be the effectiveness of such sanctions and will it help to reduce the number of violators, well, us. this was even discussed with you, i think, when this whole story began, it began back in december of last year, when a bill on increasing fines was submitted as a satellite to the main bill on increasing mobilization, then, dear friends from the ministry of defense and the general staff in general, some nightmarish numbers were written there, in the initial edition there were fines of something like 200 uah. well, we told them that they should probably come to their senses, because there are no such fines in ukraine at all. neither for criminal nor for administrative offences, and as a result, after a very long debate, the fine bar was lowered to 17-25,000, which is still a lot. at

the same time, i have repeatedly publicly expressed and repeat this position of mine. i have never supported forceful methods as a way to solve any organizational problem. not like that, it had to be done, and the whole history of mobilization, it says that, well, it should not have been done that way. and what we have today probably indicates that the state has not created the proper conditions for people to fulfill their duty to update data. on the one hand, it should have been done two years ago, on the other hand, even at the beginning of the epic of 60 days, there simple arithmetic calculations said that 11,100,00 men would hardly have time to go through this procedure. and as of today, well, i don't know final numbers, but what i've heard... from various sources is somewhere in the range of 4.2 million men between the ages of 18 and 65 have updated

their data, so that's somewhere around 6 million men, they have not been updated, and in my opinion as a lawyer a little in the past, this means that they all automatically fall under administrative responsibility. on imposing a penalty, so if the department of defense believes that this is an effective job done, an effective data update operation done, when we have it there almost 6 million are infringed, that is , it was probably necessary to use slightly different methods of carrying out this procedure, it was probably necessary to listen to people who said that longer terms were needed for updating data, and it was certainly necessary to better... prepare, because you and i remember we believe that for 60 days, the ministry of defense constantly told us about the improvement of reserve plus, and it really happened before our eyes, and it sometimes worked,

sometimes it did not work, then some new functions appeared, that is, they actually changed the algorithm as the case progressed , that's for sure absolutely wrong, and it was necessary to prepare humanely and launch it all at the same time, but we have what we have, the mobilization continues, we all have to remember, no matter how much we criticize the ministry of defense or the general staff, but we are obliged to conduct mobilization, we are obliged to put order in the register of conscripts, because as i have repeatedly repeated, again, either we will conduct mobilization and we will conduct it, or the russian federation will conduct it in completely different formats, and we will have to serve in the russian army , the issue of victory and the end of the war has not yet been completely removed from the agenda and... the issue of the survival of the ukrainian nation and the ukrainian state has not yet been removed from the agenda, therefore, with all the criticism of the ministry of defense, this should be considered as attempts to improve their work, that we... we try

to do almost every day, but the process must continue, the war is not over. mr. andriy, i am talking about another bill initiated by the president, he even talked about it yesterday in his video, this bill seems to be, let’s call it, about traitors, that is, about those people who even had the title of hero of ukraine or other medals there, i am just looking for curiosity, the ukrainian traitor from crimea, who now sits in the state duma, kovitidi, she, for example, has... an honored lawyer of ukraine, the order of princess olga, and so on the medal for the return of crimea, how many dozens of artists who defected to the side of the enemy have people's or honored artists of ukraine, the draft law is already in the verkhovna rada, you have already seen it, what is its fate, as you predict, well, look, this is news, not news at all about the fact that a bunch of russian citizens federations, a bunch of collaborators, they have...

old awards, of course i am very glad that the president submitted this bill, but the voice faction submitted this bill, well , a similar bill, one and a half or two years ago, we raised this issue two years ago that it is some kind of madness that open enemies of ukraine, as you correctly call them, some sit in the state duma of the russian federation, have official awards of ukraine, well, this is completely inadequate, but from the practice of our work in cooperation with the servant of the people from... the president, of course, there is always the problem of jealousy regarding the authorship of certain initiatives, and almost two years have passed and in fact the president of ukraine raises the same topic, although once again it could and should have been resolved two years ago, but it's better late than never, i haven't read the text of the presidential bill yet, but it's definitely already in the verkhovna rada, there are probably at least three or four bills on this topic, but the bank decided to promote this

idea. under the zelenskyi brand, what do you think? to say, personally, as they say, not checkers, but go, we will of course support it in the format proposed by the president, but i just want to remind you once again that these ideas were proposed much, much earlier by other deputies, and why this has not moved for the past two years, i absolutely do not understand this, we are obliged to withdraw all awards to all persons who... directly or indirectly support the armed aggression of the russian federation, this is a matter of the dignity and reputation of the state of ukraine, this must be done immediately. thank you sir andrew for your thoughts. andrii osadchuk, people's deputy of ukraine, was in touch with us, they talked about important legislative decisions. it's almost news time again. our colleagues are preparing to tell you about everything as quickly as possible and most important. the newsroom works constantly, and khrystyna parobiy, our colleague, is already

ready to present the new issue of no. christ, what will it be about? thank you, colleagues. which country will help rebuild ohmadit after the shelling of the russians, and which country is ready to give us f-16 fighter jets? later in the issue, wait i am khrystyna parubiy, i will tell you about the most relevant things at the moment. germany is allocating eur 10 billion for the reconstruction of the ohmadit children's hospital in kyiv, announced the minister of economic cooperation and development sveniya schulze. an additional sek 5 billion has been pledged by the swedish government for children and their families affected by the shelling. let me remind you, the biggest child.