but as we see, ah, we're getting to that, well, not like that, even like a turtle, from my point of view, much slower. in this situation , it remains only to defend oneself, and secondly, to implement a certain policy that would allow, say, on the one hand, to gain time, on the other hand, to protect people as much as possible, to protect one's forces as much as possible, so that all these processes, which are currently ongoing... in nato, in ramstein, among our allies, have matured to make the necessary decision, which is encouraging to me in this regard, only this discussion, i cannot call it a discussion, because it is a quarrel that broke out at a meeting of the nato council, where our closest partners talked about the fact that while washington and brussels are thinking about how to do all this, ukrainians are dying on the front and in the rear. .. means that the vast majority

of those who are in nato, they understand the situation, its complexity, and at least they will do everything so that those on whom the decision depends, they make a decision on maximum aid to ukraine, i am not talking about that to stand next to ukraine on protection of civilization and freedom. an extremely important agreement was signed without exaggeration between poland and ukraine, it is about the sphere. security, we went to this for a very long time, maybe too long, but i think it was due to the fact that it was written out as best as possible, i say without irony - it is one of the most important security documents of this time period, and it is also extremely a big perspective when we talk about the next steps in preparing what is called the nato central european defense line, so i think that all these things will continue... in parallel, if we

are talking about the importance of security cooperation with poland, what do you think we will be able to achieve, and in your opinion, if we are talking about a certain delay, there was a certain cooling of communication between warsaw and kyiv during the immediate previous six months well, first of all, this is a very important step, but from my point of view, it, like all other steps in this plan, requires the ukrainian. the polish side of legalization. documents that are signed as interdepartmental documents, you understand very well, they depend from the political situation. here the laws and their implementation depend exactly like that, but not to the same extent as interdepartmental documents. and that worries me the most. if it is clear that both sides are striving for cooperation, they understand the extreme necessity of the need for such cooperation, but they formalize it not with an intergovernmental agreement, but... but with a document that does not require

ratification, one must understand the price, the value of this document and his, let's say so , legally, the impact of its situation in one and the other country, that is, in fact, from the point of view of inheritance there by political regimes that will be in one and the other country, it is quite labile, this is the first, second, what is important is that the thesis, which, by the way, you and i... have been constantly developing for i don't know how many years, that the bilateral relations of the countries , nato members is one thing, the relationship between ukraine and nato is a completely different matter, and one does not interfere with the other, and the 18 treaties and agreements that have been concluded are additional proof of this, and this direction can develop indefinitely, conditionally saying, petliura helped pilsudski. free to defend

warsaw in 1921, and now poland can can help ukraine, ah, resist russian aggression, that is, in this respect, let's say, i gave this example only as a certain historical parallel, which, by the way , happened more than once, although the opposite also happened more than once, but for history it is necessary to look only with the benefit of which... for us today, it is second, third, very important, very important that in the central european region, and if we take the baltic countries, poland and, say, romania, a certain group of states is being created here, which are not only lobbyists of ukraine, who are firmly aware that they nato is needed just as much as ukraine, because today, forgive me... but these states

are closed from the aggressor by ukraine, and if you look at what we will look at together at the obligations that the united states and nato had, the strengthening of the eastern... oval, then they are carried out, well, i will not understate it as much as possible, somewhere by about half, both in terms of personnel stationed in these countries, and in terms of weapons, and armored vehicles, and so on, that is, there is a very slow assembly of these forces, well, that's it it must be understood that if we talk about the 30,000 that nato plans to deploy on the territory of these countries, well, for comparison , please look at what... forces are being used and are operating on the russian-ukrainian front today, and what are 30,000 and for which this time may be, so it is absolutely necessary for these countries, i emphasize this, thank god that they understand it in warsaw, they understand it in vilnius, they understand

it in riga, they understand it in tallinn, well , somehow, in bucharest, in budapest, they have their own song they play in sofia, you don't know why to think about... what to grab, then the president says one thing, then another, so it is obvious that being on the front line with the russian military, these countries understand very well that they need to interact with ukraine, because it is the only land on the planet today , a state, it has an army that is capable of resisting the russian aggressor, oh these words, these last sentences would be enough to... answer all these maneuvers that are taking place in central europe. it is not by chance that these countries are the key lobbyists for ukraine's accession to nato, because they they understand very well that if we take the european continent, then sweden, finland,

ukraine, these are the powers that they can count on today, the rest are either in a state of formation, or beginning to form, well, or something else there. roman petrovich, i would like to ask you, and for what purpose putin announced his ultimatum, when, in particular, it is about seizing those territories that they retrospectively included in their russian constitution, we understand that this is a certain demonstration, this is a certain designation of his readiness to go to further war, but with on the other hand, he could not do that, that is , orban was exiled, orban also flew around beijing and... what beijing, i don’t even know which offices he visited in addition, what information he gave to whom, but putin immediately went ahead and in parallel together with his emissary , he rolled out this ultimatum, unprecedented in general, in relation to at least four of our

regions, he did not even mention crimea. mr. antin, he is cutting off the possibility of a retreat, and it is understandable, and why, because this is a... "clique". putin is the fuhrer, next to him there is a clique, it may or may not be. it cuts off the paths for this clique to retreat. therefore , appropriate legal steps are taken from his point of view, but these steps are worthless from the point of view of the norms of international law, and it's all the same as taking paint and smearing fences is dirty. this is what these decisions mean, they have absolutely no legal force, neither internal nor external, moreover, one must understand that simultaneously making such decisions and chairing the un security council

means, well, putting yourself under the guillotine, and so it will be, because this is a deliberate violation of the norms of international law, hence. it can be seen that he is doing everything so that neither he nor those around him can afford to step back even half a step, this is what is happening, so this is extra proof that i am moving forward, and what should be read here is not something to be afraid of and hide from it, it should be taken as an argument that the aggressor is moving forward and... proposals that some territories should be given away, they should disappear from the agenda altogether, because with who takes such steps can only be one a way to fight, to fight with force and to punish for crimes, other options of this, which were voiced

these days, because that's it, you understand, it's like a joint score, on the one hand , actions-decisions are made alone, shooting at ahmadis, it is known that, that our territories are there up to lviv and so on, and on the other side , all kinds of unclean things are being trumpeted there, talks about negotiations, about... that there is another way to help ukraine, other than ukraine joining nato. when i read these sentences, the more i see who signed there, well, let's say it's me i understand very well what talents the human world is filled with. roman petrovich, well, but putin at the same time, well, this is a kind of delirious consciousness, you understand, bilogaryachkova, that is, on the one hand, he is talking about some istanbul people, it is not known what was agreed on. which were not just ratified, as far as i understand, they were not even signed, and

there was no mention of the seizure of additional territories, in his latest ultimatum, he very clearly listed the areas that he wants to occupy, that is, how he is going to spend one or the other, i am not i know, the negotiating position with the same beijing, even within the borders of its allies, as it intends to reduce everything to some single denominator, tehran, beijing and moscow... are sick of such a concept as the integrity of global security and its indivisibility, this is a thesis that was, if you remember, this is nonsense, and the thesis, which was born back in soviet times, relatively speaking, from the english channel to vladivostok, the big ones rule, and they divide, and the small ones are like ukraine, poland, there, they are not busy here, but we will want, where are we, where, where are we yes, we will be there. in the eyes of moscow, it means that at one time it should have been berlin and

moscow, everything else, they should run around on a chain, on a dart on a short and everything, this is such a right, by the way, beijing also professes this right, i think that you have heard this nonsense, the indivisibility of global security, and its very frequent slogan is proclaimed there by all these ayatuls and the führer of moscow says it, here in this... what should be done? in this situation, it is necessary to explain that ukraine adheres to the un charter, the norms of international law, the traditions established in international law, because this, when they say that the world order is based on rules, then these smart people say that our ancestors lived by such rules, some of them were written out, and some were not written out, what do they say, well, it's like in football, hit the leg, then you idiot, stop because it hurts people, where are you driving, that is, there are unwritten rules in

international law, so if you put these two systems next to each other like that, on the left, these idiotic phrases of the führer, and the world order, which is based on rules, then what does this world order say, arose b problems, sit down at the table and you are doomed find a solution, you are doomed, the use of force is unacceptable. that's what order based on rules says, and this, the führer, this plushie, together with the chinese dictator, it decided that we are big, so we can do what we want, we want to the dnieper, we want to the western border and so on, i.e. this is what imperialism professes, the imperial philosophy, which invents all kinds of nonsense, which somewhere sideways pro... ran past the un charter or some international legal acts, this is, firstly, secondly, it must be borne in mind, i tell you, as

a person who sat with them dozens, maybe even hundreds of times at the negotiating table, they interpret the norms of international law, everything that is necessary, starting from electoral legislation, ending with treaties on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, as they consider necessary, and not as it is written there, then... that's why they will search, as this nebinzya told at the meeting of the security council that it was the ukrainians who bombed ahmadyt, well, imagine, that's coming out and talking, people are sitting, respected, there are permanent members of the un security council, the representative office is international, and this scarecrow comes out and tells that they are ukrainians, that means they bombed themselves, that they themselves... shot themselves in the bush and so on, that's the philosophy for you, that's why i, in general, when i take

on such things, it seems to me that in this regard it is better to say what we have to do than to explain, and what it does, this vile, wild creature, you understand, mr. antin, rabid dogs are shot, there is no other recipe there and cannot be. therefore , the diagnosis is clear, the prescription for eliminating this disease is also clear, why there is no action, well, because there is who writes these open letters. which are printed in the guardian there and so on, that it is necessary to negotiate, with whom to negotiate, how many times i have explained to the americans, do not sit down with them at the table in principle, because everything you sign is an obligation for you, absolutely nothing for them means, this is what the situation is, so mr. antin, the führer was not going to do this and is not going to follow the rules of international law, this is

firstly, secondly, i want us all to remember that everything he does, every decision, which... that fool is accepted or whatever it is called there, it has absolutely no legal force, and everyone in the world understands this, this is what we need to rely on, what we need to be guided by, and we need to strive for the fastest possible unification of forces and the implementation of the recipe in order to cure the disease of this ethnic group, this state and this führer. thank you very much, sir. for this extremely important, essential conversation on the air of the tv channel, i want to remind our tv viewers that roman bezsmertny, an iconic ukrainian politician and diplomat, was working for them now. events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, news the tape reports on them, but it is not enough to know

what is happening, you need to understand. antin borkovskyi and invited experts. events are critically evaluated, analyzed, modeling our future, every saturday at 1:10 p.m. with a repeat on sunday at 10:10 a.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. and now mark feigin, a well-known video blogger, activist of the russian opposition in emigration, ex-deputy of the state duma, will work on the air of the tv channel. glory to ukraine, mark, glad to see you. glory to the heroes, i congratulate everyone viewers well, the kremlin, according to its custom , began to clog the airwaves, so to speak, with a verbal

diplomatic review, that is, it began to talk about what they are ready for, not ready for, what parameters there are. some renewed istanbul and so on and so on and after that, in fact, in parallel, when they served their interests there with orban, they struck in ohmadit, in the children's hospital in kyiv and killed dozens of civilians, this is how they conduct business, but the key story , well, why are they doing it all so bloody and so stupidly, that is what was the purpose look, if we talk specifically about the okhmads, then according to their ideas, this strike should contribute to the fact that ukraine, together with its allies, will be forced to go to a cease-fire, possibly a truce and further negotiations. yes, we understand that this is a distorted logic, but in my view, although different experts present different points of view, this is a way to give nightmares to the population of ukraine, because the strike was not only on okhmadit, there were also other objects. there was an attack in the dnipro,

people died, one professor died, but all this comes from focus, when it comes to children, about... the children's hospital, this is a blow that was supposed to demonstrate to the western allies that there is no way out here and that we are so ready to kill children in hospitals, in homes for lonely old women, that was all, oh, no, it was an anti-missile, oh, they didn’t get there, they aimed at a military object, now there is no doubt that the strike was aimed, because there are fragments of missiles, video footage, other means of recording, the americans, i think, generally see everything from satellites , they have everything in folders, and certainly with kyiv there is such an exchange, so this action is purposeful, conscious, as it has always been in my opinion, and there, they say, we will lie something, say that they themselves are against with a missile or something else, i believe that there is only one explanation here: they want to terrify the population is important, they feel and believe that they can influence

public opinion in ukraine, in this sense , create the image of a helpless president zelenskyi. eternal war of attrition, which should cause damage that the population can no longer withstand, losses with which it cannot give i'm happy that is, genocidal practice, in simple words, many people simply reflect, say: well, he cannot turn around like this and appear in front of a scoundrel of an incredible scale, but maybe he has already done so, when he has already done so much, then with one crime more or less, for such there is no such person as putin and for his entourage. meaning, he is already a war criminal, it is clear to everyone, a usurper and dictator who is interested in nothing but killing. it was clear to many even before, we found these features in... him, why? from only one reasons: he comes out of the kgb system, what do they learn there, they are like that, of course, not all of them are exceptions, but he is part of the system, its

organic part, a part that is unlikely to change due to some life circumstances, and when he came to government in 2000, there were such conversations that trouble should be expected from him, why, because he is from the kgb, how does this affect the negotiation process directly? look, he acts like this: closer, further, hot, cold, that is, he is organizing orbán's visit, no doubt. i believe it was a mission ordered, paid for. presumably, with the kremlin, directly, when the prime minister of hungary actually initiates the trip himself. it's just that few people know that orbán himself said six months ago: "i want to be a mediator." now saudi arabia is going to hold the second summit in jeddah. there is a turkish platform with erdogan, who constantly offers himself, and... the practice was: china talked about a peace conference, a peace forum was held in switzerland, which is unacceptable for russia, because they are based on the traditional security system,

agreements, international law, recognition of sovereignty. the kremlin will not agree to this, so the second conference in switzerland with the participation of russia, in my opinion, is complete nonsense, but that is another matter. so why orban? because orban is a representative of the kremlin itself. he is beneficial to moscow, as a rule. the kremlin, this is china, this is orban, he seems to be the chairman of the council in the eu, now, i have already seen that some politicians, some representatives of the countries are demanding, for these shuttle visits to kyiv, moscow and beijing, that orban be recalled from this position, that is, deprived of him this right, but apart from that he seems to be from europe, a representative of the western world. tay is like an agent of the kremlin, let's put it bluntly, and he is so profitable, he can voice an agenda that will not be convincing if it is voiced by china, because china is a separate

pole, america does not perceive china as a peacemaker, as an equal, and orbán it turns out to be just a private politician. and here we move to an extremely important essential point, the parameters of what the kremlin offered to orban, and if you read carefully. all the revelations of the hungarian prime minister, we see there about a serious warning, we, we will not take it lightly, we are talking about two or three months, which will be even worse than it is now, and along with this, the kremlin is starting to hit hospitals, that is, as far as we understand, the kremlin is demonstrating this not only to ukraine, he demonstrates this with a very specific western cabinet, but there are also people in the west who are aware of all the dangers from the kremlin. yes, we see that two important decisions were made at the washington summit, one of them is about money, and the second is about a perspective that is inevitable the prospect of ukraine's accession to nato

immediately blew medvedev's roof off, yes, but if we talk about the parameters of what orban voiced in the context of this whole matter, that is, he voiced what was put into his ears in the kremlin, everything is correct , yes, everything is right, because yes, everything is right, he must. to frighten, and this signal is directed at ukraine, it is clear, and ukraine has been living in a war for 2.5 years, that is, it is directed to the west, this is the message of the kremlin and is speaking, if you do not put pressure on ukraine now, so that it stuck to this cease-fire plan and the rest, it will get worse, there will be hospitals, there will be mass deaths, the destruction of infrastructure will continue, which will happen in the winter, you understand, that is, then you will already put pressure on ukraine, do at least... something for it to do the first step, because it will be worse. of course, it sounds more convincing from orban, because he met with putin, the others did not,

and putin said something to him that we, they say, will take everything to the children, and then the west , because of its reflection, because of its weakness, decides, we still can't oppose anything significant, only give weapons to ukraine, we can't join the war ourselves, yes, it's a dead end that makes it possible. to november, he is still betting on trump, he believes that trump at some point, by the way, this is not a fact, i am not sure about this, will really embarrass europe, because he is announcing anti-european plans, that europe, the security council itself underfunds that it cannot rely solely on the us, which must... will defend, a famous statement last year in carolina, where he said absolutely not, when asked if he would defend europe if russia attacked them. trump vaguely articulates

the question. plan to support ukraine, then he says that he will not give weapons if she does not go to negotiations, and the negotiations must end in favor of ukraine, and if ukraine approves, then only such a decision will be made, etc., they are contradictory, especially my point of view such that trump will not be allowed to stop supplies and aid to ukraine, will not be allowed, because opposition in congress and elsewhere will not allow to him, as it was in his first term in 2016-2020, simply take and stop. therefore , after all, putin's calculations are based on trump, and this period should create fear, they say, trump will come, it will be even worse, well, until november, at least we will start this peace process, and from this there are statements that by the end of 2024 year, as they say, negotiations will definitely begin, they said it in beijing and they said it in moscow. why,

because january 20. trump's inauguration, if trump wins the election, will be released for now from this construction, that trump really has a chance to win the elections in the usa, although the open question may be different. yes, biden can go in general, there are various conversations about it, the sponsors of the democratic party are demanding that he go. there are various options, it is possible that newson, the governor of california , will attend the convention, or kamala garis, the vice president, it is not known, we will see, in any case moscow. she really takes this into account in order to put pressure on western countries, european countries in particular, and believes that this is a very favorable moment for her, because france has elections, president macron was distracted by early elections to the national assembly, the result is what it is, and it contains an alarming, threatening signal, but for now we will see how the government will function in these conditions, because the left took first place, the second party of the revival of macron himself, on the third place

is the ultra-right. marine le pen, but apart from that, putin believes that there is a need to hurry in this matter, it is necessary to create a canopy of pressure over ukraine, and this orbán's shuttle mission is based on this. why, because orbán passed all three points, except for the remaining two. he went to moscow, kyiv and beijing, but two more remained - brussels and washington. he will not be accepted in washington, he will not be tolerated in washington at all. under trump, it is possible, this mission can...continue, but only next year, after the inauguration on january 20, and as for brussels, he has already made a clear statement, we did not authorize you, you are traveling on your own initiative, violating consensus agreements on the part of of the european community, show me the mandate, orban, they told him in brussels, we didn't give you a mandate, but mark, here i am i would ask you to work a little as a pathopsychologist, that is, to understand

what they have put in place. so to speak, in orban's pocket, that is, on the one hand, putin begins to chew his mantra about some papers signed in istanbul, it is not known who, he starts talking again, and we, we proposed in istanbul, let's go back to the istanbul ones seen there, agreements and so on, but on the other hand he releases medvedev, and medvedev very clearly summarizes everything that putin proposes, and we will still kill ukrainians, and we we will kill later, even if we agree on something. yes, and even if we agree on something, if something changes in ukraine , our goal is to kill ukrainians or destroy nato, that's it. i have already said many times that medvedev is used for these crazy statements for the domestic agenda, first of all. he said, don't pay attention to all these negotiations, we are doing our job. look, he is, after all, the deputy chairman of the security council of the russian federation, former president, ex-prime minister. it is clear that it is hollow, but for internal use

consumption will agree. why, because all the time, all the agencies inside russia, if someone is watching, they all share everything that medvedev says. it varies widely everywhere. to the russians, this agenda means that we are their independence, there is something like that, that we are pretending to be some kind of negotiations, a peace process. do not disturb, we will finish them all the same. ukraine will be ours, there will be no ukrainian nation. this is a final, irreversible decision. in my opinion, they actually think so, it's all designed for that. i, when i talk about the futility of negotiations in anything the format that is currently being discussed from switzerland to orbán's initiatives on behalf of the kremlin, this is because the main thesis has not been removed, that we will not stop anyway, we will achieve the same thing, that we will pretend to be some kind of peace now, and after some number of months or years we will destroy it and follow the same scheme.