united by football, stronger together! greetings, friends, live on the tv channel, the second part of the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, today we will talk about the following. the verkhovna rada has approved ransoms for corrupt officials. in the first reading of the draft law on softening the punishment for corruption. how will western partners react to this. politicization of the armed forces. civilians criticize military generals for problems in the army. who benefits from undermining the authority of the ukrainian military leadership? under arrest immediately after release. roman chervinsky was ordered to take preventive measures in the new crimea. case, why

the authorities are afraid of the former spy. we will talk about all this for the next 45 minutes in our studio. i would like to remind you that during our program we conduct a survey, today we are asking you, friends, whether corruption has decreased in ukraine over the past 5 years, yes, no, please vote on youtube with the appropriate button, and if you have your own thoughts that stand out for these two unequivocal answers, write your comments below this video, if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote on the relevant numbers 0.800 211381 if you think corruption has decreased in the last 5 years, 0800 211 382 if you think corruption has not decreased . i want to introduce today's guests of our studio, these are my colleagues, olga len, presenter, author of the espresso war information chronicle program, good evening. olya and larisa

voloshina, journalist, political psychologist. larisa, i congratulate you. congratulations! before to start our conversation and start our traditional friday journalism club, let's start with today's rather sad news, because iryna farion was shot in lviv in the evening, she is in a serious condition, in the hospital, in intensive care, near the scene of the incident, where, where there was a shooting and where was the attempt on iryna farion , where is our colleague, journalist, emma stadnyk, emma, ​​i welcome you, please tell me the details of what is happening now, what, what, what is on masaryk street now where it was has an attempt been made on iryna farion? sergey

studio, i greet you, in this residential block at approximately 1:80 a.m. today, july 19 , a shot rang out, probably aimed at iryna farion. the public activist and ukrainian linguist was just approaching her house when a shot rang out, and neighbors and residents of this house began to converge on this loud sound. it is known that it was they who informed the relevant services, in particular the police and the ambulance, about the incident. iryna farion was hospitalized in one of the local hospitals, she is now in serious condition condition it is worth noting that an investigative search team is currently at the scene of the incident in the house. in particular, the law enforcement officers are communicating with the representatives, i apologize, the law enforcement officers are communicating with the neighbors and residents of this building who could have seen this incident, we are not allowed to the scene of the incident, it is blocked off with tape. we also talked to neighbors and eyewitnesses.

he looks to be about 18-25 years old, he attracted attention by the fact that he was dressed very specifically and strangely, because the temperature outside was nominally + 38°, he was dressed in long, sweatshirt, long-sleeve hooded sportswear, he also had sunglasses on his face, which...

by the way, it was qualified as an exaggeration murder, and this was reported to the ministry of internal affairs, and the president of ukraine said that all the necessary forces of the national police of ukraine and sbu. used to establish the circumstances of this crime, doctors are fighting for the life of iryna farion, wrote volodymyr zelenskyi on social networks, and the head of the ministry of internal affairs, ihor klymenko, said that the attack on farion, qualified as attempted murder, the police and other necessary services work at the scene of the shooting, have witness statements, process data from cameras, video surveillance, according to him, solving the crime is in the active phase, well, olga and lariso. we have a rather difficult situation when one of the leaders of the all-ukrainian association svoboda is shot, they shoot her in lviv and she is demonstratively shot , she is now, iryna fariv is now in intensive care, of course

there is little information now about what, why, which motives, but let's try to understand what is happening in the country, why, why they shoot at political... leaders, because iryna farion is a political leader of freedom and a well- known politician. larisa, what do you think this story can be connected with and why, why is it unfolding like this, we see how there is some evidence that some guys have been monitored for a long time, monitored in order to shoot at iryna farion, who interfered with iryna farion, if not the russians, how? i would like to add this, but still, in my opinion, it should not be considered a political attempt, because it is not a matter of political activity iryna ferion, although she is a well-known outstanding politician, it is rather aimed precisely at the fact that she is a politician of the right-wing movement, right,

she is a carrier, and none of us doubts that she is an absolutely conscious and open carrier of the right ideology, she will preach it. she stands on these principles, she is a symbol of this ukrainian right-wing, such as the protection of language, culture, that is, her own, we do not give ratings now, and it is obvious that as a figure who is very important for the right-wing idea, when she becomes about the object of such an attack, it is done in order to stir things up certain attitudes in society and if we look at it in terms of definition. to this whole story, we have a direct relationship, this, that is, this is political, this is a political act, this is terrorism, and terrorism, i will remind you that by definition terrorism is a brazen, senseless, act of violence, an act of aggression against

innocent people , which in principle, well, iryna firion does not manage anything, she does not manage anything, and that is, an act of aggression is made from the resolution in order to achieve something... so that society begins to put pressure on the authorities to make or not make some decisions. any terrorist act is not only an act of violence, it is also an act of information company and other incitement that follows this act of violence. therefore, in this case, we still need to see what will happen next, what will be the information company, because before that we saw a terrorist act, this is an attack on an ahmadiyyat, which is also pointless. and after that we saw a clearly planned information company. now there will be an information campaign. and in my view, when we're faced with this, this, this classic act of terrorism, it's not an attempted murder, it's not even attempted political assassination. we are immersed in

terrorism. russia is waging a terrorist war here, and we should pay attention to the informational component itself, because this is how terrorism is fought in the world. you, where, how, what young man, for what reason will take a gun or plant a bomb, is very difficult, but if terrorists cannot spread their narratives, why they commit such a murder, then in principle the meaning of a terrorist act disappears, that is why in many countries are prohibited from interviewing terrorists, distributing information, they can't even just publish their manifesto on the internet somewhere on the darknet, yes, but no, we have to... pay attention to the terrorist component, which is the information component in our society, because what is happening now , when we actually have information , information has almost become a tool for controlling the masses, well, we have played our part in this ourselves. thank you, larisa, olga, it all

happened and took place in lviv. until now we understand, and we understand, and now we understand that for russians, lviv is a city where the standing stands monuments to stepan bandera, where there are shukhevych streets, that is, they are simply triggered, do you remember when the shaheds flew to the museum, the estate. shukhevych museum in lviv, it was also such a revealing act when they ransacked this museum, now we, in this situation , can say how it was done, and it is obvious that there ears are sticking out to the russians in this act of terrorism, and that , which we can see in the information component, which larisa already mentioned after all this. well, for now , of course, it is difficult to say something in terms of what we will see it, i agree with larisa,

this will be a post, it should unfold further, we will see some leaks later, who is it, what is it, why, it will be all, a very small percentage that it is some kind of personal enmity, i think , that this is very little, this is a very low percentage , here you have to understand a little, if you , well... look at this broader picture, then yes, it is absolutely included in the russian terrorist campaign that they are conducting, moreover, this is invested in how they understand the way to shake up the internal situation, and from this point of view, well then farion becomes clear why farion, this is not a person absolutely real, who is a practicing politician, who affects something, also agree with larisa, but it is a symbol. and if you simply understand how russian

propagandists think, how the people who organize all this think, they have the impression that they can organize a clash of some, as they imagine, extreme right-wing forces from the government, this is what they are trying to provoke, that is, this the whole story is in their imagination now... there must be something that some people who represent themselves have ferion, who cares from their point of view, well, there are those who support farion, they should continue to demonstrate an attack on the government, well, that is, some, and we can see it further, we, i think that most likely this is how the whole thing will unfold company, i.e. further on we will see some posts on social networks from some strange people or from those... who fled, but they seem to present themselves as right-wing, we have some,

i won’t name them now, but i think you can to remember who it could be, or some pseudo, absolutely such bots there and that's it, but that's it there may be such a story, that is, they will tell about the fact that the authorities are literally attacking something, this is something, another fault line, which they can try to make of it by telling it. the story that these are some immigrants, or some russian-speaking people, and to try to arrange this artificially somehow, well, that is, i see such two possible directions of development of the information campaign that larisa spoke about, well, that is, we are now in a period of time where the russians are trying to split ukrainian society, to sow some kind of seed... the arrival of one part of people to another, and i think it will be provoking some literally something in

social networks, throwing information there from various dubious accounts, from various dubious people, from sleepers, again sleepers of some kind, which may have been sitting quietly until now, but now they are becoming more active, such sleeping agents, i think that we will see all this from some people who, for example, until now... behaved quite loyally, and there no one could suspect them of such direct cooperation with by the russians, but what do they have there, well, let's say they are sidekicks, they cooperated with someone there before, but now i think these people are becoming more active with some such , literally there, that it is or the government, that there is something specifically there and we need to go there don't storm something there and... withdraw from the front with all your freedom, go storm the bank literally yes or that's all, and the second thing is, well, i'm saying

, well, a split, which is literally the answer of the russian-speaking people, and there, too, i think some such people are becoming active i think it is necessary to wait for such counter-propaganda measures of the ukrainian government in these conditions, because it is clear that they will be. to rock this boat against the background of what is currently happening with our electricity, against the background of everything, they are trying to electrify society. what can we oppose to this and what should we oppose? well, look, you and i have already sketched out several breaking points to which the appeal will go, so in this case, in any counter-propaganda, it is necessary to understand for what is the purpose of propaganda? not what they say, but why they say it, to what action they want to incite the masses, and we

say the formation of one against the other, the right, therefore... the representatives of the same right-wing forces, of the same freedom, must make a statement, regarding, clearly having identified the aggressor, and talking about the danger of any mutiny, any unrest inside and about revenge, that they will sort it out, that they keep this under control , this matter and that for iryna farion, in any case, russia receives retribution, that's right now, if we could see these er... shells for iryna farion, now, this should be, there should be speeches by those who are identified with the same immigrants, that is, with someone who is a refugee in lviv, as lviv is that city, which received us, and lviv is under threat, because again russia is stirring up mutual enmity here and everything else, that is, these things now, it should not be

the government, it should be people, representatives, symbols of the same communities, well , against the background of ... what happened today in lviv, of course, and the current government also adds different ones topics for the society to be restless, and we will talk about it now, because with the story with iryno farion there will obviously be a continuation, and we will monitor on our air the details of how this case will move, how this investigation will move , a terrorist act, regarding an attempt to kill iryna. farion, this week, yesterday , the verkhovna rada of ukraine adopted draft law number 11340 on the basis of the agreement with the investigation on the admission of guilt in criminal proceedings for corruption crimes, there it is said that people who will be caught in corruption can pay some contribution to the state and turn in their

accomplices there and get out from under the impact of judicial legislation. and the investigator of the entire component, the chairman of the board of the anti -corruption center vitaly shabunin believes that this draft law will allow corrupt officials to legally buy themselves out of prison, i quote mr. shabunin. are you a people's deputy or a minister, you were taken for a bribe, no problem, paid the fine, compensated for the damages, go all out, have fun, no prison for you, even confiscation will be an option, well, considering the fact that monopoly power implies monopoly responsibility, and monopoly power. it also provides for a monopoly on practically all acts of corruption that take place in the state, we are talking about the fact that the servants of the people actually create a mechanism for which they can pay a ransom when they are caught in corruption and in this way live peacefully, interestingly, that detectives on

busap, all were against it, representatives of the law enforcement committee. activities say that this is a norm, as it were, which the europeans insist on, and it is necessary for joining the european union, but i do not think that vitaly shabunin would write about the fact that this bill is terrible, so that our western partners would be satisfied with such a bill, against the background of all these corruption scandals that arise almost every week and representatives tangential to them also explode. of the ukrainian authorities, what do you, colleagues, think, whether this draft law can become what it was, what it will trigger ukrainian society, because everyone understands that there is a war, that the corrupt, as there were, and still are in ukraine, that bribes, as they were, and still remain, and this, too, cannot

suit the society that paid a high price for the war. from russia and for the defense of ukrainian independence, ola, well, we just talked about the fact that russia is carrying out terrorist attacks in various spheres in order to destabilize ukrainian society, and it seems to me that in parallel, well, probably the people who work in that in the same direction, together with russia, because i can't understand it otherwise, they are conducting exactly the same campaign of demoralization. societies with, well, in fact, they undermine, well, the opportunities for protection, i will explain my opinion, because here they are all one for... a law on how to pay back from serving in the army, another law on how to pay off from stealing, come on share and go for a walk, well, tell me, how should this

affect the fighting army, the part of society that actively helps the front, this is how it affects everything, i think that it affects in such a way that people simply ask themselves the question: wait, and then, and we have to give a lot in order for... this country to survive, here we have our backs, people they pay off themselves perfectly, steal, pay off and live their best life, that is, in essence, this is an undermining of the country from the inside, and demoralization and undermining, i emphasize once again, not just some kind of corruption, anti-corruption policy, and to hell with it, excuse me, that anti-corruption policy , corruption is not the biggest problem. of ukraine, this is an undermining of the ability to protect, to defend, because it simply undermines the morale of the fighting army, directly, this is my attitude

to this story, because it all follows one after the other, all these initiatives, they do not give literally take a breath, every week there is a new stupid initiative, well, these initiatives usually show, well, someone's uh... skillful hand, because in principle, well , it was possible to predict that this draft law would cause a wide reaction, a big reaction and among the active, it is not entirely clear what it is needed for, we have in the criminal code the opportunity to conclude an agreement with the investigation, there is something else to be written out for in addition, that if you are caught stealing, then you can give something there and go for a walk, why is this this this that's it the real just redemption from not conducting an investigation, not finding out what the losses were, just some literal, well, just like, it's called redeeming, it's directly

called redeeming, and a whole bunch is created, and redeeming, here redeeming, there is still somewhere to pay off, but what is it anyway, well , a country of ransom, i would say so, because in principle, what happens in general with these schemes, people are transported abroad, this is also a scheme to buy off the army, but a shadow scheme that exists in the country, and about which, too, i i think the representatives of the ukrainian authorities know and absolutely know how they, how they transport these people abroad with these beads, i believe that, for example, this story with this one, one of the founders of the private bank, was also made public precisely in this. this is another one, you know, another brick in the same way, when, well, you can just sit in a compartment, move with someone else's documents, and

no one does anything, because otherwise, i think even the price was called 200,000 dollars, it's the same story, just showing that while you here you are fighting, here people are happy there, well , they redeemed themselves and live normally, or could this lead to the fact that... people who fight and people who know the price of life and death, that they can, well, take up arms at a certain point at a certain stage and say: listen, well , everyone already got it, well, it's not possible anymore, well, not necessarily at this moment, not necessarily there in six months, but after the end of the war they will say, listen, well, we are so tired of living , because while we fought for 2.5 or three years, people packed themselves, bought houses, rested abroad, bought themselves tickets to the west, as if for god's sake, then they will return, they will claim the same thing again.

well, the fact is that this is a very important question, at whom it is aimed, so it is aimed at those, at the division of those who fight and those who do not fight, for one reason or another. this is not about the confrontation of a conditional military officer with a conditional official, it is against. the status of a conditional yesterday's civilian, who fulfilled his duty, came to the tsk, followed the summons, and his neighbor, a classmate, and colleague, who at that moment was packing , packing, buying out and everything else, this is aimed at that, and therefore this feeling of injustice, it is very important for me, for example, i understand why it was accepted, what kind of law it was, there already in part there is, for example, decriminalization of theft up to 300. well, conditionally, if a person stole 300, give him nine and go for a walk, because it is cheaper to take nine from him than to plant and feed him, but when he rushes into it. an option that, well, here

, you are right, there is no, well, because we have it yes, you can take it, go to an agreement with the investigation, turn in the accomplices, that is , they demand a bribe from you, you can come, report it, get your 10% of the bribe amount, everything is beautiful, why was it, why, let's remember that when i went the law on mobilization, which, by the way, at the beginning madame bezugla and arahamia worked on it, they both created some kind of subcommittee, and for a long time there , for six months, they studied this issue and... do you remember why everything is going on in parallel in our country an attack on a hostage and in the same posts there , well, because of the post, they write mobilization and what do you think that if the women were to be mobilized, for example, she threw it into her eyes , suggestions that she threw them in, and what if they were to be shot, and what else was there, that is , she had some kind of a thrashing seam, well, she is a representative of the authorities, which discredited, in this case we see that we have

another process going on here in parallel. except for the confrontation of those who fight, who do not fight, those who are included in the struggle for the country and who try to avoid it. we have another component here, namely people who, for example, are our foreign partners who are they put forward demands on us, because we have partial legislation, we know how subpoenas in our country, yes, they put you in prison, you who cannot pay for the theft of a bun, he will go to prison sooner than the one who stole billions, and people are they know, they have this reality, and now they, and they tell us, no, listen, these are the western partners, this is what they want, you want in the eu, so let corrupt people walk around in your country, and people think, why europe doesn't give us that, here, well, you understand, it's already blowing up right here, we already see this company, that nato is bad, and europe is bad, that they will tell us whether they are us, that is , another element has already gone, when the draft law on raising excise taxes on

palnega was passed. too, we are going to europe, and that is, people who will feel it in their wallets now will say, listen, why do we need europe if we are all sitting on generators, fuel, fuel excise is being increased by 2 hryvnias, by three, by four, per liter increases, and this will still affect products, including whether on the goods or services that we consume, that is, also they say europe, well, you mentioned maryana bezuglu, she... continues to discredit the already military leadership of the new syrsky, because she is starting to torpedo, this is a political torpedo that simply torpedoes the military leadership of ukraine. i had reserve major general serhiy kryvonos on the air yesterday, and he says that criticism of the ukrainian command is an open sabotage against the armed forces of ukraine. let's listen to what general krivonos said. why mr. zelensky?

ms. maryana will not shut her mouth, because directly these and maryana gets all these narratives from the pecherian couples, and this is most understandable, and such things, when we hear accusations from the pecherian hillbillies for criticizing the government, for criticizing the leadership, that they are the kremlin's ringleaders, then maryana, then who is the spearhead of the kremlin, mouthpieces you even... speak, but it destroys, systematically, ideologically, destroys, it is such a wonderful informational psychological operation in quotes, which is absolutely not in favor of the ukrainian armed forces and the situation inside the country in general. ulya, can you explain why bezugla does this, that is, it is connected with the great public trust in the armed forces, and in this way, this raid, when, when they, when the same people,

yes... the very corner, and the office of the president attacked the hard worker, we said even then that this is the beginning of the process, this is the beginning of the process, an attempt to eliminate the armed forces, to make them unpopular, they are real, they are trying to make the armed forces untrustworthy, that is , they are trying during the war to simply kill confidence in the armed forces, just because it is a threat . in the electoral plan, this is firstly, secondly, i think, secondly, there is another thing, so that maryana is crazy, she doesn't just write posts, no, she does much worse, but i agree with mr. kryvonos here, because she literally carries out sabotage, she comes into contact with the officers of the armed forces who are fighting, including in advanced positions, and she

tries to incite them. oppose the command.