the fish rots from the head, no, not from the head and beyond, then who is china, my heart hurts, all this in the informational marathon with mykola september, saturday 5:10 p.m., sunday 6:15 p.m. on espresso. greetings, friends, live on the espresso tv channel, the second part of the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, and in this part we will... talk about the following. the dead end of the moscow patriarchate. opposition factions blocked the work of the parliament due to the delay in banning the uoc-mp. who in the council is covering the enemy church? competition of peace initiatives. plan johnson-trump versus orbán's peace mission and xi jinping's proposals. what finale of the war

is ukraine being prepared for? involvement of russia is inevitable. the eu believes that the next peace summit should be held with the participation of the aggressor country, but not on putin's terms. why have supporters of compromises with the russians increased among ukrainians? we will talk about this and other things in our broadcast for the next 45 minutes. however, before starting our big one. conversation, i offer our viewers to participate in our survey, today it sounds like this: is trump able to force putin to stop the war? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, if you have a separate opinion, leave it in the comments below this video. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote. if you believe that trump is capable of forcing putin to stop the war. 0800-211-381. no, 0800 21. 382 all calls to

these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will summarize this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio, they are people's deputies of ukraine, mykyta poturaev, representative of the servant of the people, head of the parliamentary committee on humanitarian and information policy issues, vice-president of the osce parliamentary assembly. mr. nikita, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, thank you for the invitation. mykhailo. tsymbalyuk, people's deputy of ukraine from the batkivshchyna faction, first deputy of the parliamentary committee on social policy and protection of veterans' rights. mr. general, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. i wish everyone good health. and oleg senyutka, people's deputy of ukraine from of european solidarity, head of the subcommittee on ensuring the activities of people's deputies of ukraine. mr. oleg, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. good evening. well, since, gentlemen, we ask our viewers and tv viewers about what they

think, whether trump is capable of forcing putin to end the war, and this poll has been running for the second hour on our tv broadcast, i offer you to answer this question in the format of a blitz poll, let's start with mr. mykhailo, well, first of all, it all depends on who will become the president of the united states, if if trump becomes president, then he is capable of doing it. and force the russian federation to withdraw from the territory of ukraine, but god knows what the other conditions will be. thank you, mr. general, mr. nikita. look, i believe that any president of the united states is capable of making efforts to force russia to get into ukraine if he really really wants to. well, that's it. thank you, mr. nikita, and mr. olezh.

bipartisan support is very important to us, it is very important to us that we have the support of both democrats and republicans in congress, and i i am convinced that with such support, whoever is the president of the united states of america, ukraine will receive help, and russia will have to get out of our territory. thank you, gentlemen, for the short answers, concise and accurate, and of course, when we talk about trump's plan, we er... we have to say about the plan that was announced by the former prime minister of great britain, boris johnson, in the daily newspaper mail about this outline of a peace plan that it could be from trump. we know that on the eve of this publication , johnson communicated with trump, he was in the united states of america, so far it is presented as johnson's plan, but it is possible that this plan was discussed with trump, what is proposed? in this plan or in

the outline of this peaceful, possible peace agreement, the return of ukraine to its borders on february 24 , 2022, leaving crimea under the control of the russian federation, these guarantees of ukraine's accession to the eu and nato. the ukrainian army will replace about 70,000 american soldiers at us bases in the eu, which will significantly save the funds of the united states of america, as well as certain concessions regarding the russian language so that in in this situation, putin did not feel like a person who lost the election, but rather gained something. and this is probably one of the most irritating points of this agreement, as well as the fact that putin should return to the big eight, well, relatively speaking, the big seven plus russia, that is, in some way, russia

should be rehabilitated after this war. deputy prime minister of ukraine stefanishchyna said that johnson is acting on his own initiative, but in his own interests. of ukraine, mr. nikita, how do you like this plan, or the draft that johnson made public, if this draft in interests of ukraine, or whether it is not a prototype of that possible peace, plan or peace agreement that can be considered, well, for example, at the end of the 24th year. look, in all these numerous already peaceful plans, there are some things with which you can. agree, there are some things that cannot be agreed to under any circumstances, it is clear that, say, the proposal to give some rights to the muscovite language in ukraine is an unacceptable proposal, because ukrainians are fighting and

dying today, our best boys and girls, precisely for the right to be ukrainians. i i understand that maybe mr. johnson just doesn't understand the point. this war until the end, let's not be offended by him for this, because this is not his war, this is our war, and we know exactly what our army is fighting for now, what our armed forces are protecting us from, i really hope that in the near future such plans will also include the point that we still have to return the moscow agents to ryaz, to... so to speak , restore their rights, which i hope they will lose in the near future in ukraine, and just as kremlin agents will lose their rights in cassocks, the muscovite language will never return to our life,

i.e. our people freely speak, read, buy books in the russian language, in the russian language, but... the muscovite language will never play that role in ukraine , which was imposed on us for years by the so-called russian federation, and it is clear that no ukrainian parliamentarian, who is ukrainian, who bears his responsibility to the people of ukraine, as he swore to the people of ukraine, will never vote for such whims. again, i hope that by autumn we will strengthen our positions. as a political nation that knows exactly what is important for the ukrainian nation to exist and live on, for the ukrainian state to exist and live on. well , we will talk separately about the priests wearing the robes of the moscow priests, because today it is a top event in the verkhovna

rada of ukraine, and in general, i think that this is one of the central issues of 2024, if not on the 23rd, then on the 24th. to be and why are they delaying , including your fellow party members, and i know your position, you publicly say that you advocate the banning of the moscow church in ukraine, but the servants of the people with former members of the opz still do not put this bill to the vote and do not put it on the agenda in the second reading, i hope it will happen, but we will talk about it a little later , let's talk about this plan of johnson's for now, because johnson is a friend of ukraine, and it is clear that a friend of ukraine cannot offer ukraine, obviously, some of these losing options in this peace plan, mr. mykhailo, how are you this plan that johnson voiced, he

is an experienced politician, he is a politician who did a lot for ukraine in the first year of the war, including... leading him away from the so -called istanbul agreements, but these istanbul agreements are half-heartedly created by a trojan horse. well, first of all we are really grateful. to boris johnson for that support in his person, he represented great britain in the first weeks, months of the war, in the 22nd year of the large-scale war, and then ukraine really supported his position and we are grateful to him to this day, what was announced, whether it was his a plan or someone else's plan, history will probably show. eh, in my opinion he does not have the mandate to speak on behalf of ukraine, and this can

only be one of the proposals with whom it is agreed, it is probably better to tell him if we actually know the real authors, but it once again emphasizes that no one, no one, repeats, except for ukraine and officials , cannot announce any plans, all this is a proposal. which sounded before that, and we see several plans for the end of the war in ukraine, this can be discussed as one of proposals, because in fact it has some rational grain, but i agree with my colleague nikita that there are things that are unacceptable, in any situation, they cannot even be discussed, there are those red lines, the idea... of them he announced, that's why we have to wait for an official position here, because

any statements, they can even harm our movement to victory, but i agree with one thing that the discussion should be born and the presence of alternative proposals, it can find its way to solution. problems essentially by the victory of ukraine, but unequivocally, any war ends with negotiations, and it is johnson who can be one of those who can represent one of the parties, but i emphasize once again that such proposals should be approached very carefully so as not to disturb ukrainian ... society, because today i already spoke with some military personnel from the front, and those who are here, they

react very painfully to such proposals and they have an aggravation, an aggravation of the sense of justice, because of this, statements must be commented on very carefully, but his alone as minimum, or two offers are eligible for life. among the proposals that johnson has is a proposal for territorial concessions, well relatively speaking, for the last 2.5 years we have talked about the fact that our goal is to go to the borders of 91, and this is the main cornerstone of our policy and on our goal, but johnson is talking about february 24, 22, well, meaning that crimea remains under russia, at the same time... kmis, kyiv international institute of sociology released data on what ukrainians think about

the possibility of territorial concessions to russia in order to achieve peace, 55% of ukrainians are against any territorial concessions, but the share of ukrainians who are ready for such concessions in order to achieve peace as soon as possible and preserve independence is gradually increasing, according to the results of the kmis survey, as of may. on the 24th, 32% of respondents are ready for compromises, but the majority of ukrainians, 55, as i said, still oppose any territorial concessions from russia, as sociologists note, in the period from may 22 to may on the 23rd, the situation was different, only 8-10 respondents were ready to make concessions, while the absolute majority, 82-87%, stood firm. against any concessions, that is, mr. oleg, it is about the fact that the number of people

who can or are inclined to compromise is increasing, with the war the number of those who say listen, let's agree to some compromise is increasing, because people are dying and it is hard enough to live for people who are fighting and those who are in the body, now there are problems with energy. to what extent will the position of people be decisive in this situation? well, the position of people is always in the state should be decisive, and the government can't... can't take into account the position of the people, and it seems to me that this is a very dangerous trend that you just announced, referring to the kmisu poll, because it reflects the fatigue of society, and there is a very big responsibility , based on these data , is in power. we well remember that at the beginning of the full-scale aggression in

march, the authorities made a certain mistake when they went to the initialing. of the so-called istanbul agreements, which the kremlin dictator putin now uses in any contacts of its representatives and with representatives of the civilized world, therefore , today the ukrainian authorities, the entire ukrainian society must necessarily demonstrate completely different trends than are happening now, and the first trend is a very clear observance of those values. which united all ukrainians at the beginning of the full-scale aggression, we must not make any concessions regarding ukrainian identity, regarding language, regarding our faith, regarding those values ​​without which the state is simply unthinkable, and when there was a certain departure from these values, this prompted

the kremlin to full-scale aggression against ukraine. if we talk about... the words of johnson, which are now very widely discussed in politics, i see that these words are starting to be discussed somewhere in society, let's first of all note that johnson is a really famous politician today, just like trump, but johnson today does not represent the government of our one of the biggest partners of britain, just as trump does not represent either the government or the congress of the united states today. america, and we always will should, when responding to certain messages, always take into account whether this is the official position of the state, or whether today it is a certain discussion of politicians, perhaps even in the context of election campaigns, which is also important to take into account. today, there is a very clear position of our western partners, the united states, britain, and the countries

of the north atlantic defense alliance, and it speaks of full and unreserved support for ukraine. after all, this support today is expressed in the supply of weapons, and this support today is expressed in financial terms help for ukraine. today, it is very important for the ukrainian authorities not to make any statements, take any positions, by the way, this also applies to parliamentarians who would raise doubts in ukrainian society. on the contrary, it is necessary to look for those grains that unite. ukrainian society and today, the three biggest problems that annoy, which today are the biggest problem for the ukrainian people, are firstly war, secondly corruption and thirdly - energy, and when the ukrainian authorities will demonstrate in relation to these three problems very clear

position, that is, as far as the war is concerned, it is support for the armed forces of ukraine, as far as corruption is concerned, it is not... the fight within the country against those who embezzle funds, against those who are corrupt today, and with regard to energy, this is a very clear plan of action , which would show that ukraine can restore our energy capacities, protect them, and thus, if we demonstrate very clear consistent actions in all these three directions, and that these actions will be based on the inviolability of the foundations of ukrainian identity. believe that then the mood in society will change, and the mood in society will change, no politician will then be able to make any compromises, any agreements that will harm the present and future of the ukrainian state. thank you, mr. olezh, mr. nikita, i wanted to ask you, well, you obviously heard about vitaliy klitschko's statement in the interview

of the dlsra official to an italian newspaper, where he said that zelenskyi will obviously have zelenskyi. a simple period, well , the owners are ukrainians, not only in zelenskyi, but they say the ukrainian president is forced will submit to a referendum the question of territorial concessions or whether it is worth considering them at all or not, but vitaliy klitschko says this out of ignorance or misunderstanding of what the constitution of ukraine is, it is in force and that there is no referendum. well, in fact , he cannot take and cancel the borders of ukraine or question or in some way legitimize what these territorial concessions are. may be in some agreement. mr. serhiy, i did not quite understand what the question was, i think that vitaliy volodymyrovych, well, really

it would be worthwhile to refresh a little, that is, the knowledge of the constitution of ukraine, and in general to concentrate, it seems to me, more on the questions of why historical buildings are being demolished in broad daylight in kyiv despite all the prohibitions of the ministry of culture and... and other bodies and who is doing it and for what money and how long it will continue, and not to engage in such geopolitical, so to speak , thinking, well, a referendum - i'm not talking about the question, i'm not talking about why people fall from cable cars and drown in broad daylight, it seems to me that kyiv we seem to have lost contact with mr. poturaev, now we will restore this connection and continue our conversation, well, in the meantime,

actually, both in ukraine and in the world , they are talking about the second peace summit and the possibility of participating in this second peace summit, russian, the head of diplomacy of the european union, jose borel, said that the next peace summit should be held with participation. russia, but not on putin's terms. let's hear what he said. i am convinced that president zelensky will continue to insist on these negotiations in order to have the next conference in the presence of russia. it's real, definitely. we have already talked about the fact that the next step requires the involvement of russia, but how should we perceive what president putin said during the visit of... prime minister orban to moscow. look at the prerequisites put forward by putin. yes, of course, we should hope for peace through diplomatic negotiations,

but on a certain basis. and this is not putin's basis. so, mykhailo tsimbalyuk and oleg sinyutka are on the air. we are now reconnecting with nikita poturaev. his light was turned off, so basically we are still debugging. phone call, mr. oleg, what josep borel is saying about the russians having to be at the second peace summit, but not on putin's terms. we know putin's conditions, can russia join this summit if putin's conditions are not accepted by ukraine and the world? well , it was not josep borel, the representative of the foreign policy of the european union, who spoke for the first time about joining the next peace summit, it was the first time ukrainian officials started talking about it, president zelenskyi spoke about it, the minister

of foreign affairs of ukraine spoke about it, they talked about it representatives of the president's office, and today, when we hear these statements from the mouth of the head of foreign policy diplomacy of the european union, he cannot speak differently than the higher officials of ukraine began to speak about it. another state, that is , it is obvious that the european union, european diplomats publicly maintain the position they have always voiced, that there is nothing without ukraine, and today they are saying what, in fact, has already been proposed by the ukrainian authorities, is it appropriate to talk about it today, well, we do we already have a meeting in switzerland? the first peace summit, where... which was organized by ukraine, which was organized by the ukrainian authorities, and i understand that after that, in this format, we did not move closer to peace, closer

to the de-occupation of ukraine. therefore, today , european diplomat, i am convinced that the representatives of the american authorities will also speak in unison, they say exactly what the representatives of the ukrainian authorities are saying, because it is obvious that the table should be changed... and the representatives of the ukrainian authorities should be the first to speak about it authorities, this should be a ukrainian change plan, ukrainian peace plan, it is very important that during the talks about it the ukrainian principles are upheld and respected, they will have the right to life and be implemented, the stronger the ukrainian army will be, the stronger the ukrainian economy will be and the more unity will be preserved in ukraine. society, so i would not rely on josep borel as the first source here, especially since today there will be changes in the european union,

including, and we know, that to... the position of the supreme representative of foreign policy the eu is already applying and another person will be appointed, so i would rather watch the signals sent by the ukrainian authorities, and we must understand that our partners will act in unison with the signals that the ukrainian authorities will send. so far we have heard statements from the president about the next meeting with the participation of russia, it is quite... a dangerous road, it is a road with very many challenges, because we see that where the kremlin is, there will definitely be treachery, there will be duplicity , and the kremlin will always act based on them interests, and their interests were and remain, this is the destruction of ukraine and ukrainians, a very dangerous subject for conversation, and the most important thing here is to preserve unity within ukraine and a united front with our

westerners. partners of joining the countries of the so -called global south to a unified position in order to put the aggressor in his place and make the aggressor pay all the bills and for all the damage he brought to ukraine and to ukrainians. regarding unity within the state, regarding unity in power, well, today we saw how the verkhovna rada of ukraine could not to issue, or put on the agenda , the question... about the second reading of the law on the banning of the moscow church, mr. nikita, we are glad that you have returned to us, and i know that you have a principled position that you are in favor of the banning of the branch of the russian of the orthodox church, the moscow church in ukraine, but the members of your faction did not support this initiative together with the former deputies

from opzzh. although why the former, the former opzzhzhsts do not happen with the representatives of the opzzh of the banned party in ukraine, could you explain the situation, what is it that you have in the faction, why is there no unity even in your faction on this issue, because i would like to put all the dots at once and, first of all, the non-opposition factions made a protest today, all the factions that.. .including the servant of the people faction. i want to remind you that we are of course grateful to absolutely all colleagues. and i am grateful to mr. oleg and his colleagues. mr. mykhailo, and his colleagues, and everyone who is not on the air today. but our fraction gave 130 signatures and will give 150 votes for this law. well, so that

we just understood the scale. and the fact that our representatives in the conciliation council mistakenly this morning, apparently not assessing the mood of their own faction, did not support it, and thus, we were forced to hold, together with our colleagues from other factions of the groups, this protest action near the tribune, which was crowned with success, therefore that the conciliation council then voted for the fact that at the next plenary session, the verkhovna rada will begin its work precisely with the consideration of draft law 8371, and we did not go on vacation, did not go on vacation, and we did not have the will to go on vacation either, and this is a question for the members of the conciliation council, in particular, the members of the conciliation council from other factions of the groups, why they all agreed with the decision to take

such a break now, i believe that no ... there was no need for this, moreover, according to our calculations, if the law banning the russian orthodox church and its agents were to be voted on in the verkhovna rada hall today or tomorrow, there would be at least 240 votes today or tomorrow, and i am surprised by the decision of the conciliation council, i'm surprised, i hope we are mr. oleg and mr. mykhailo will explain to everyone what the motives were, what the reasons were, what it was all about... it was explained that they all unanimously voted to consider, which means that this law will be considered only in august, so i would ask, mr. sergey, this is not a complaint, i understand that you are working there with the information you have, but i asked you to put the emphasis correctly, so wait for you.