and volodymyr fisenko will be in our studio, stay with us. dmytro kuleba is in china for the first time during a full-scale war. a diplomatic breakthrough or leaning towards... negotiations and whether the meeting between the foreign ministers of ukraine and china will speed up the end of the war. let's try to analyze everything in today's edition of the bbc, i'm olga polomaryuk. the foreign ministers of ukraine and china talked for more than three hours about peace and how to achieve it. dmytro kuleba's three-day trip to china is a special event, because it is the last diplomatic one representatives of both countries met in china eight years ago. looking ahead, i will say that this meeting in... russian media

was presented from their own angle, but in order. dmytro kuleba and ivan ye met in the chinese city of guangzhou, talked longer than planned, mainly about peace in ukraine and how china sees the end of this war. dmytro kulebe said that the war must be ended, that the negotiation process with russia is possible at a certain stage, but not now. this statement has already been analyzed for quotations by the russian media, the agency, for example, rianovosti, has omitted the details and wrote only that ukraine is ready to negotiate with the russian side, it was a quote. later, the ukrainian foreign ministry called such words a distortion. the spokesman of the russian president, dmytro piskov, also commented on the meeting between kuleba and vanya, said that moscow never refused to negotiate with kyiv, but the kremlin wants to know the details of this meeting, and so far, it is too early to confirm the results of the meeting. you can probably say it's that... china currently

appears to be the only country that has leverage influences on russia and can push it to negotiations, although the official beijing has never called the war in ukraine a war, they say about a crisis, that's how they describe the current negotiations, and this is what the spokeswoman of the chinese foreign ministry said after the meeting. let's listen. china has always been firmly committed to promoting a political solution to the crisis, president xi jinping proposed four principles, adding important guidelines. on this basis, china and brazil jointly adopted a six- point consensus, which has three important contents the principles of conflict resolution, the three elements of the peace negotiation plan, the three clauses on humanitarian protection, prevention of nuclear risks and ensuring the stability of industrial and supply chains. they received widespread support. china believes that the resolution of all conflicts must ultimately return to the negotiating table, and the resolution of all disputes must be achieved through political

channels. recently, both ukraine and russia have been sending signals of their willingness to negotiate to varying degrees. although the conditions and the time is not yet ripe, the chinese side supports all efforts that promote peace and is ready to continue to play a constructive role in this process of cease-fires, ending wars and resuming peace negotiations. so can china become a mediator in the negotiations between russia and ukraine? let's talk with the main one. alina hrytsenko, consultant of the national institute of strategic studies, ms. alina, i welcome you on the air, in your opinion, how significant is this visit of minister kuleba to china for the start of the negotiation process, as we know that for eight years the parties have not met in china, and it is worth saying that it was kuleba who went there at the invitation of the chinese side, and what is the benefit of china from this, on the one hand, the visit... is really

important, because, well, really, as you rightly pointed out, there has been no meeting at the level of foreign ministers between the two sides for 8 years, the visit can in any case be considered even in the absence of any radical changes about despite the absence of any sensational statements, the visit can still be considered important and successful, because as a rule, a meeting at the level of foreign ministers, very often when we talk about china directly marks. that there is communication between the parties regarding the meeting at the level of the leaders of the states, that is , we can say that it is possible that there is such a probability that a bilateral meeting between sizimpin and president zelensky will take place soon, also taking into account the fact that previously in june he visited beijing , first deputy minister of foreign affairs andriy was visiting beijing sebiga, that is, this suggests that this is just the standard scheme for... the chinese, that

preparation for a visit at the highest level begins at a lower level and then increases in the hierarchy, and with regard to china, why is this, what is the benefit? china in china, here, first of all , it should be noted about the image and reputational benefits that china will receive, because against the background of confrontation, increased confrontation between china and the united states of america, china's toxicity is increasing, including among the countries of the so-called global rooster , and it is very important for china to minimize these negative consequences of this confrontation, to increase its authority among states, primarily global. and to position itself as a peace-loving state, as a peacemaker state that promotes exclusively peaceful conflict resolution tools, and they try to promote it as in the context of the russian-ukrainian war, or they still call it the ukrainian crisis, really not using the word war, looking for certain

euphemisms, and in the same way in the middle east , they have become more active recently, just the other day a declaration was signed in beijing between 14 palestinian factions, on the formation of a national interim government for reconciliation after the fighting in the gaza strip ceases, and signed this declaration, both representatives of fatah and representatives of hamas, the opposing groups, and the chinese about selling in fact , as a diplomatic success, therefore also regarding the russian-ukrainian war, here it is important for china to at least create a good, beautiful picture, yes, and putin, as he said, has his own vision. the end of the war, and this one give russia four oblasts within the borders, the non-aligned status of ukraine, but kiev has other conditions, this is a return to the borders of 1991, as we know, the complete withdrawal of russian troops from its territory, in this case, will sidzen ping be able to find that

compromise solution? actually, i don't think that china will really take any active radical actions and steps, and really seek to resolve. this conflict, using more active communication with one side with the other, acting as a mediator and mediator. china's task in in this context, it is simply to sit the parties at the negotiating table, so that ukraine and russia agree on something, and actually speaking, for china it is unprincipled, to what exactly, so that only both sides are satisfied with the outcome of the negotiations, and it should be noted that a priori such a scenario development of events is not possible, as the minister rightly noted today... hesitating during the meeting with his chinese counterpart. today, russia is not ready for truly adequate negotiations. russia still remains, uses such tools as blackmail or ultimatums. we saw this, including last month, when the russian president

delivered his speech at the russian foreign ministry. that is why xi jinping is not ready to seek any compromises here and really negotiate with one side or the other. it is important for them... only to create an image that they still advocate peaceful, exclusively peaceful tools and ways of resolving the war, resolving the conflict, and to create a good picture that china really acts here as a state that is peaceful, and most importantly - to create a certain the opposite and position the opposite of the united states of america. the usa, unlike china, actively supports ukraine, provides ukraine, ukraine with the necessary aid... help in order to achieve a military victory in this war, in which it should be noted that china does not believe, china does not believe in victory by military means, and neither does russia , nor ukraine, and absolutely sincerely believes that only negotiations can be the only way out of this situation, unlike the usa, the usa, unlike china,

actively helps ukraine, and china criticizes such a strategy, such a policy on the part of washington, calling it adding fuel to the fire, and here for china, china is trying to position itself. as a country that uses alternative tools to resolve certain regional conflicts, and it should also be noted that china acts very hesitantly in the context of the russian-ukrainian war, they are never in a hurry, it took them a whole year to formulate their position political regarding the russian-ukrainian war, which we very often still call the peace plan in quotes, that's why they will not rush, they will always act carefully. and they will primarily think about their own benefits and their own national interests, and this is one of the reasons why china cannot be considered as a really attractive and adequate mediator in the settlement of the russian-ukrainian war, not only because china continues to support , you help russia in one way or another, but

also because china's position is not so much pro-russian as pro-chinese. ok, ms. alina, we'll get back to the conversation now, before that, let's listen to what they say in britain. it is interesting how insignificant the contacts between china and ukraine have been until now, i think that china is trying to correct the opinion that was formed in the world, however. it is as if beijing supports russia in its war of aggression against ukraine. this is already causing diplomatic damage to china's image. so the country seeks to present itself as a peacemaker. china unveiled its 12-point peace settlement plan last year, albeit without diplomatic footholds, and this visit is an opportunity for china to demonstrate that it is committed to peace, and also to consolidate the success of diplomacy after the palestinian factions signed a path agreement in beijing the other day. ending the war in the gas sector. negotiations between them began at the beginning of the year in moscow, in april they came to

beijing, in may china organized a large-scale conference of arab countries, where they put forward a proposal for a large international peace conference. the fact is that the role of chinese diplomacy is growing. china has good relations with the countries of the region, which it calls west asia, precisely at a time when the united states is focused on its own. domestic electoral problems look somewhat helpless there, and for china, when it comes to its image in the world, this is a major diplomatic victory. yes, we are returning to the conversation with alina hrytsenko. ms. alina, to sum up all of the above, what we said was the peace summit-2. volodymyr zelenskyi said that he expects that russia, a representative of russia, will be at the negotiating table, and will china be there? quite. true, especially if it is possible to convince directly between president zelensky and tan.

plus, as far as i understand, van tried to convey to minister koleba the necessity that the russian side should be invited to the second measure summit, since , most likely, direct bilateral negotiations between the russian and ukrainian sides are unlikely to be possible, and from the side of the president's office, we have already heard the desire to hold a second peace summit even before the presidential elections in the united states of america, this will in principle be an alternative option to ensure negotiations with the russian side, in which case we we can expect the presence of a representative from the people's republic of china at the summit. it should also be noted that even if the russian side refuses to come to the second summit, china has already seen what such and such an event is, saw how the first summit went, saw. in number, as far as the so-called global bottom was represented, that the summit was attended

, including china's partners in brics, such as brazil, india, in particular, china saw that there were no political risks in participating in such does not support the west, so it is quite possible that china will think about whether to send its representative, even if the russian side refuses to participate in these negotiations, but for china, of course, this would also be a problem. tical success, if the russians were also present at the event, at the second peace summit, here china would really be able to sell it as a diplomatic victory, that it was precisely thanks to china that it was possible to bring the parties to the negotiating table, and it was precisely thanks to the assistance of the chinese side, which today is one of the few of states that supports communication with russia and ukraine, although it must be clearly said that cooperation with ukraine is much... much less intensive than with moscow. yes, and finally, you know, you got ahead of me

in the first block of questions, because i actually wanted to ask you, and when the meeting between volodymyr zelenskyi and sidzin pin is possible, yes, because before that they spoke only on the phone. in short, to be honest, the probability of a meeting remains, but i am a little skeptical about how feasible it really is, especially this year, especially in the context of the elections of the united states of america and a lot of different and diverse events, and china is quite actively involved in various areas of its foreign policy , including in the middle east, and there is a nuisance in the form of north korea and so on , therefore , of course, the probability of this meeting remains, and in principle, the communication between ukraine and china hints at the fact that, most likely, a dialogue is being conducted regarding the organization of this meeting, but let's give an unequivocal answer. this will happen meeting or not, but it's too early at the moment, yes, thank you,

ms. alina, unfortunately we have to finish the program, that's all for today, see you tomorrow, good evening, this is... this is the second part of the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, and in in this part of the verdict, we will talk about the following: phantoms. world leaders are proposing scenarios for a peaceful settlement of the russian-ukrainian war in advance. are there prospects in johnson trump's plan? territorial compromises: ideas about the possibility of renouncing territories for the sake of peace are increasingly thrown into society. why

is the share of ukrainians who agree to concessions increasing? for... the ukrainian position. the show murder of a bright ukrainian nationalist in the center of lviv has not yet been solved. who is behind the shooting of iryna farion? we will talk about this and other things during the next 45 minutes on air with our guests. however, before starting our big conversation, i invite our viewers to take part in our survey. today we ask you about whether you consider the liberation of crimea realistic. by military means, so yes, no, it's pretty simple on youtube if you have a different opinion, please leave it in the comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote by numbers, if you consider it realistic to liberate crimea by military means 0800 211381, no 0800 211

382, ​​all calls these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio, this is viktor boberenko, political scientist, expert of the analysis and policy bureau, mr. viktor, i congratulate you, thank you for being with me today by us, good health. volodymyr fesenko, political scientist, chairman of the board of the penta applied political research center. mr. volodymyr, good evening, thank you for joining the broadcast. greetings, good evening. well, since gentlemen, we're asking our viewers today if they think it's realistic. the liberation of crimea by military means, i will only make a small remark that the head of the armed forces of ukraine, oleksandr syrskyi, stated this in an interview with the guardian, and we are actually asking what our viewers think, whether it is possible or impossible, let's blitz survey format, and you will answer these questions, mr. volodymyr, please, well, from the point of view of not influencing our

audience, it would be better to ask about it at the end, and this is how we will influence, well... the answer is short , i am convinced that there are such military plans and there were back in the day, hello, yes, we hear you, we hear, hello, mr. volodymyr, we hear you, speak, we hear, we have some problems with communication, let's solve the problems with in connection with volodymyr fisenko, mr. viktora, please, i am sure that yes, not only that, i'm sure. that it is easier to liberate crimea than donbas, because donbas is actually an agglomeration, it has many cities, it is a stone jungle, and if the russian federation took avdiivka for six months, then we, donetsk , cannot take avdiivka like they did, it will be completely destroyed from residents, that is, if our city were there, and if our residents were there, even if they were under occupation, but

crimea is comparatively easier to take, yes, they will shoot down the crimean bridge there, shoot them down. all the logistics and they will have it, as their raw material said, but the time has come to accept the difficult and difficult decisions, well, that’s how it is, why are we talking about crimea, i already said, because general syrskyi said that the armed forces of ukraine are ready to liberate crimea by military means, but all these statements were made against the background of boris johnson’s announcement , a great friend. the so-called plan, the peace plan, how to achieve a truce between russia and ukraine in a column in the daily mail, the former british prime minister wrote that trump can give more weapons to ukraine if he wins the elections in the united states of america, ukraine for to reject russians to the borders of 2022, and they say that

the borders of 2022 can be like a plan for something. peace negotiations, and in this way the russians will be forced to conduct these negotiations, ukraine can be invited to the eu and nato, although we have already been invited to the eu, we are still waiting for this invitation to nato, and 70,000 ukrainian soldiers, in case a peace agreement is reached, they can replace american soldiers from europe, at those bases, american bases, where... americans are now, and that will allow trump to facilitate funding, or let's say this, to remove this financial burden from him, again, in the event that e. trump, the new president of the united states of america, and putin to save face, he can be offered protection in the russian language in ukraine, or russian speakers, and that ,

that russia can return to the big seven, that is, g, g7, g7 and plus russia, and we are talking about the fact that russia can become a member of this international club, at the same time. tmis published information that 55% of ukrainians are against any territorial concessions by the russian federation for the achievement of peace, well, this means up to the borders of the 22nd year, that's exactly 55% say, no, no, no, let's go to the borders of the 91st year, at the same time, the share of ukrainians who are ready for territorial concessions in order to achieve peace as soon as possible and the preservation of independence is gradually increasing, so the cm... claims that as of may 24 , 32% of respondents are ready for compromises, for territorial compromises, but the majority of ukrainians, as i said, 55%, are still against any

territorial concessions from russia , and sociologists note that in the period from may 22 to may 23, the situation was different, only 8-10 percent of respondents were ready to make concessions, the absolute majority was 82-87. consistently opposed any concessions, well, this is the sociology, and such statements and such a plan, which boris johnson made public. i hope that volodymyr khysenko has already joined our broadcast, joined again, because we had problems with communication. mr. volodymyr, are you with us? so far, we don't have it yet. mr. viktor, i am addressing viktor boberenko. what do you think? could it be this one? the plan announced by boris johnson is one of the drafts of the future peace agreement, which will be rejected, because we understand that there is a peace plan

of zelensky, three points of which were considered at the first peace summit, seven points were lost somewhere, and now zelenskyi says that we will have a new peace plan by the end of the year, well, he says that by november , there will be... and he does not say: what will be the basis of this plan, because if the basis of this plan it will be that you first withdraw the troops, and then we will talk about peace, then it is clear that no one will come to this summit, it is also clear, i would like to say such troubles, i was at a security conference in may, there was also a representative of the servants of the people, uh, and i asked such uncomfortable questions, well, towards the government. yes, which i think the allies voice not on camera, but they say to volodymyr zelensky, okay, volodymyr oleksandrovich, if even you, well

, a miracle will happen, and you went to the borders of 1991, there you went to the kerch bridge, in in krasnodon and in luhansk there are yellow and blue ones flags, and you have answers to the questions, such no... but where are you going to hire tens of thousands of teachers of literature and the ukrainian language, who will replace those teachers in crimea and donbas, who are currently teaching crimean and donetsk children there, that russia - our sacred state, of course, they cannot be allowed within a kilometer of children, you have a replacement for these teachers, and you have, of course, that elections in donbas and crimea cannot be held there yet. there for several years, that is , some local military administrations will rule there, yes there some kind of kerch, city military administration, you have specialists to

come there and head it, you can’t take local people there, yes, they will head these administrations and put specialists in the whole pyramid to make heads of departments there, you have there are these people, yes, and this is the question, well, direct management, yes, but after... then there are also questions of such an ethical plan, okay, you know how many there are, where the largest number of widows of the population are, it is not in lviv, not in kyiv, not in kharkiv, but not in kaluga and not somewhere in bratsk, there or in irkutsk, yes, it is in donetsk that the most widowed people, because there is a philharmonic, there teachers were driven into local storms and knocked out peasants, yes those peasants. there are widows, there are children there, that is, this child will enjoy the same benefits as the child of our deceased participant in the war, and the disabled person who fought against us,

but he is like... our citizen, he should receive benefits, he will receive them or not, and we do not have an answer to this, and here boris johnson will say on camera that crimea is ukraine, oh, and everyone will be talking, and not on camera on the sidelines they will be saying to zelensky: "voladymir oleksandrovich, you have the answers to these questions, so maybe you don't need to go to crimea, maybe you don't need to go to donbas, maybe it's enough that will once again designate the melitopol cherry as ukrainian, that is." ideally there will be zaporizhzhia as, it will liberate melitopol, berdyansk, conditionally, koholka, iskadovsk, go to chengar and perekop and it will not go any further, then go to the format of peace negotiations, there will certainly not be peace, there will be some kind of truce, oh, but a truce i'm from they have been living there in korea for 80 years, yes, 70 years, 70 years, the falkland

version, it is 40 years, they have been living there for more than 40 years, the british and the argentines live there, without agreeing on the status of the falkland islands, live and live, well, you will consider the status of crimea for 40 years, let's stop, and they will really encourage us to negotiate, and no one will encourage us to hold negotiations, so that peace with the russian federation and that ukraine recognizes crimea russian, it is impossible, because it is punitive crime. the politician who will be the first to say: let's sacrifice crimea for peace, he 's a criminal, he needs to be arrested by the sbu, and it's from 10 years to life, but no one is talking about the fact that, come on, zelenskyy already he once said, just stop shooting, and now they will tell him, volodymyr oleksandrovich, just stop shooting, this is your quote from the 18th year, let's just stop shooting, then we will disperse

the artillery, we will withdraw the tanks to 20 km. in each, then we will introduce some un troops there there, conditionally from bangladesh, from pakistan, from paraguay, but then we will demobilize the armies, well , it’s cool, yes, and we’ll be talking about whose crimea for 40 years, after all, this is the format they will offer, they will definitely offer it, they will offer it from the spring, but not in the way zelensky wants, but by november, by november, putin will not be ready for this format, why, because putin... is sure, well, understandably, putin is a fool who gets rich with his opinion, putin is no strategist, but he thinks something, that he will break us, well, he thinks about on the basis of racism, the racish ideology, that they are stronger than everyone else, they are the coolest of everyone, and that they will collapse our front during the winter, we will freeze there , like they will destroy all energy facilities and everything, they will win and they will conditionally have everything tip-top there , because putin, again, in what paradigm is putin, putin thinks that the real

politician, that... er, trump will come er to win, that on january 20 there will be some kind of inauguration of trump, there will be two or three weeks for him will give and already in february putin, xi jinping and trump will gather, as they once gathered in podzda truman, churchill and stalin divided, made the borders of poland, cut it without poland itself, no one asked the poles, and putin thinks that it will be the same, and only when the conditions are right... to putin's hangover, when it passes february, march will begin, and he will understand that there is no victory at the front, and trump is not at all determined to hand over ukraine to putin just for the sake of good looks, yes, putin, and then putin will be ready for negotiations, just in this format of negotiations , when putin also wants peace, because now putin does not want peace and no one does will come to the zelenskyi summit, if it is

before the new year, why? they didn't even get their war horse lavova there, that's all, thank you, thank you, mr. viktor, volodymyr fesenko joined us, unfortunately, the connection is bad, because there are obviously problems with mobile operators, forgive me, mr. volodymyr, you, how do you assess all the peace plans that are now starting to appear, including johnson's performance with reference to trump, or are we talking about the fact that there are now some... behind-the-scenes talks about some kind of peace talks, about some kind of peaceful plan, about how this peace plan should actually be built, there is talk in beijing, zelenskyi says that our foreign minister and china's foreign minister vaani have reached an understanding, about phantom agreements, he just hovers and...