if he will be before the new year, why, they, he even his war horse lavov did not come there, that's all, thank you, thank you, mr. viktor, volodymyr fesenko joined us, unfortunately, the connection is bad, because there are obviously problems with mobile operators, forgive me, mr. volodymyr, how do you assess all the peace plans that are now beginning to appear , including johnson's performance with reference to trump, or are we talking about the fact that there are now some secret conversations about some peace talks, about some peace plan, about how exactly this peace plan should be built, there is talk in beijing, zelenskyi says that our foreign minister and chinese foreign minister wang yi reached an understanding, this is the reason for peace agreements, he just hovers and... and

what can you say about this process that is happening now? well, there is no process, except for the information campaign, except for talks about peace talks, there are no peace talks, moreover, there are not even any movements regarding, for example, the discussion of specific issues from which any negotiations should begin. peace talks, when they should take place, in what format, what the agenda is, there is nothing like that close, and i think. that it will not be discussed before the end of the presidential elections in the usa, and there is definitely an information conflict, yes, there are no peaceful, real peace plans either, what is in boris johnson's column is not a peace plan, it is a set of ideas and proposals , and there are not many of them, just a few ideas, and i am skeptical of the determination that this is trump's peace plan, who has read this column, and i advise the first the source, read, not the news, yes,

it is noticeable there, it is a continuation of the polemic, the discussion between johnson and trump, the column was written after the meeting with trump, and it seems to me that johnson continues this conversation, there is flattery against trump, more than half, the beginning, half of this column flatters trump and in general this is the image of the new turn. and this is a clear exaggeration, maybe it was done deliberately, or maybe johnson thinks so, the key idea is that ukraine is hardly talked about here, and this is the key idea of ​​this column. before starting any negotiations, it is necessary to provide ukraine with the most weapons. the only way to peace negotiations, a realistic way, is the maximum military strengthening of ukraine. and i absolutely agree with that. this is the only way forward for future negotiations. putin will understand only the language of strength

until there is parity on the front, the enemy is not stopped, there will be no peace negotiations, or these will be negotiations under the dictation of russia, which is unacceptable for us, and of course, we cannot go to such negotiations. situation, so i advise you to read johnson, but johnson's realistic idea, what we do not understand, will have to make some concessions. go, i agree with my colleague, there can be no question of any territorial concessions, according to johnson's logic, if you read his column, he actually hopes that at the expense of military aid it will be possible to push the russians over there at the border, the term borders in no in this case, it cannot be used, the only internationally recognized borders, well, the borders, which are called the borders of 1991, all everything else are boundaries there, or there is a line... a collision,

somewhere it’s the border with russia, and somewhere it’s the front line, and there won’t be anything else, that’s why everything has been said about it quite conditionally, some ideas are very, i would say idealistic, putin won’t give us anything, he won’t give anything, this too it must be understood that our side, i agree with my colleague, cannot legally give up any territory, at most we can agree on a ceasefire, that is , de facto... and part of the occupied territories will remain under russian control, but we cannot recognize de facto de jure and we will not, as we do not recognize the occupation of crimea or most of donbas, and we do not recognize the other occupied territories as russian either, so in this sense, the status of the occupied territories is a dead end, and in most other issues the situation will be the same, but again about the negotiations, i think not before the end of the presidential elections in the usa. "if trump becomes president, he will

initiate peace talks, this is the only thing that can be predicted, for sure, but what will happen next, the options may be different. well , the question here is whether trump will become president, judging by recent events, the likelihood that kamala harris can become the president of the united states of america will obviously increase by the day, given the well, take your time, sergey, take your time, i think it's not that simple a situation, on in america, they know how to use the so-called formative sociology no worse than in our country, in fact, yes, now the situation has leveled off a little, the democrats have appeared. chance, and therefore, yes, the winner is currently unknown, and we do not need to bet on anyone now, but if it is about the american elections, regarding negotiations, we now need to play a difficult game, why did zelensky start talking about

peace talks in connection with the trump factor, plus some of our friends and other countries there, who say, well, we need to start negotiations with russia, but the key phrase of kuleba in china: that it is impossible to negotiate with the current position of russia, there, well, it can be translated differently, there are conscientious, virtuous, although these concepts are not compatible with russia, in fact, but this is just a hint, well, if russia gives us ultimatums, what are the negotiations with we may be talking about russia. by the way, i would like to pay attention, because everyone talks about china only in the context of peace talks, in reality the situation is more complicated. why china? china has invited us for 12 years. our minister of foreign affairs was not there, well, maybe less, because yanukovych was still traveling in the 13th year, but nevertheless, our first persons in china were not there for more than 10 years, they suddenly invited us here, and not only because that china is now interested in being

a mediator there again, there are still interesting circumstances, china is very unhappy, as far as i know, putin's visits to north korea, to vietnam, in china's backyard, putin began... to implement his own diplomacy, and even more, in beijing they are dissatisfied with modi's visit, the pompous visit to moscow, and in the west, even in russia itself, everyone is writing that this is about china, in particular, because india is thus balancing its relations with china through russia, and russia is reducing its dependence on china by intensifying relations with india, and china did not like that, and so the gesture for... do not confuse peace summits with peaceful ones there will be no plans for peace negotiations, and the last thing, negotiations, are not the same thing, they are different in this possibility, although no breakthroughs in the tracks, parallel, peace summits are, well

, this is zelensky’s favorite format, he likes it, and he thinks that it will influence putin, i'm not sure about that, but well... popular support, a menu for negotiations, yes, it will fulfill that function, russia will not participate there, because this format does not fit russian interests, and this is not their playground, it is a game on foreign territory, that is why russia will not be there, and the real negotiations will be in a narrow format with mediators and in such a rather closed regime, so these are different things, negotiations will not be inevitable, but not now and i think not before next year, well, but here ... what zelensky himself says about the need to end the war as soon as possible, and he met with the state secretary of the holy see, cardinal pietro parolin, and he literally said the following, as follows. let's listen.

thank you for your participation in the peace summit. it was the first step, only the first step, or already first step. all these steps are very important for. and it is important that you support them, and i heard your words, i think we all understand that we must end the war as soon as possible, of course, without losing human lives. mr. viktor, how can we end the war as soon as possible, when russia speaks to us in the language of ultimatums, well, russia is possible, well, only. to win on the battlefield is the fastest way, for us, of course, we understand that, as the kievan wrote, but the russian writer bulgakov, a man is not just dead, suddenly dead, yes, putin's death can become

a window of opportunity for us to do something somewhere, again we understand what it is... when any society is tired of war, we have now seen that our society is tired of war , and it can be seen from the survey, and last year where. 10% were ready to cede territory, now 30% are already 32%. it is clear that putin thinks that in the spring there will be more than half of them, yes, who will simply say, no, let my husband be there or my son come back, i'm sorry for that crimea, that's the kind of hope in russia federation, but let's think about the fact that the russian federation is also getting tired of the war, they are getting tired, yes, in an authoritarian country, someone will object to me there... they can spit on that, yes, but meanwhile society can also spit, and

don’t spit on the army, we know how the russian army crumbled in the first world war, when they simply refused to hold the front, and whole companies, battalions, and yes, divisions fled from the front, it’s just not that they fled, they left the front, and so did we we cannot say, but i know, well, all of us, those who served, know that when is the most difficult for a soldier to fight, it is either november or february , the month of february. march, when winter is already ending, when something else is happening somewhere, well, in general , it’s not good, and the russian army can really start raining in february, march, and putin thinks that we will rain, here’s another thing i would like to say, this is unequivocally, when we can really improve our negotiating conditions, yes, not just there, when their army starts pouring in, but imagine that war is like boxing, but imagine how... volodya klitschko, the younger brother of the mayor of kyiv, beat povetkin, i love watching this match, well, it's pure

pleasure, how the ukrainian beats the russian, yes, he beat him briskly in the first, third, fifth round, and already in the eighth, yes, povetkin was swollen all over bleeding, but volodya was already like that, and in the 12th round they were already holding on to each other, and there was a tip so as not to fall, here we are, imagine that we are now somewhere in the eighth. and it's bad for us, but it's also bad for the russians, we feel that we are at the limit of our possibilities, yes, but we must also understand that the russians are also at the limit of their possibilities, and economic, they brought the 1948 cannon to the front, we understand all this, and we must also approach the future peace negotiations with this understanding, we think that everything is already approaching, here we are let's all sleep already. but you have to understand that the enemy is pouring down, and therefore you have to get together and, as boris johnson advises,

go out prepared in the spring and say that there is like no, we must at least go to changari perekop, to berdyansk, and then, maybe there something is already talking about something somewhere, but not earlier, and you need to focus on it in order to government, society, friends, we will have to survive this winter, and on... they will push for negotiations, only sometime in february, they will say march, but if we have great negotiating positions, or we will say: wait, we will now go to chongar and perekop, we will see later, or how you are currently testing tv viewers, whether the de-occupation of crimea is possible, is also a good option, yes, let's go to kerch, and we will see, well, yes, thank you, sir. how to end the war as soon as possible is, in

principle, the hope of ukrainians, of course, volodymyr zelenskyi is not only the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, he is the president of ukraine, he obviously says what the ukrainians expect, and how this figure, the number of people who are ready to make territorial concessions, is increasing about this sociology of kmis, i mentioned. won't this, well, let's say this, be a reason to conclude an agreement, where, where will these territorial concessions be, when this figure, for example, will be more than 50%, and they will say, well, sociology says that it is more than 50% ukrainians allow this, listen, zelensky, when he won the election, when he was supported by 70%, in the 19th year, he started quickly. to do the negotiation process, and not just sociology, but the actual results

of the elections were on his bot, and with an overwhelming, let's say, number, but when he started these negotiations, he faced opposition from an active minority, i remember it very well, i i was twice, well, during the current administration, i was twice in the president's office, it was a... in october and i think it was at the beginning of november 19, well, when the normandy meeting was being prepared in paris, sir volodymyr, mr. serhiy, i was one of the co-founders. of the surrender resistance movement, the surrender resistance movement, i am the co-founder of this movement, so i remember, the first meeting was big, it was held by the fair, there were more participants of these protests, why am i mentioning this because, well, they, i have zelenskyi and yarmak are also in mind, not only they perfectly understand that in society there are different moods,

different positions, and he is like a normal politician, he has already become a politician, although. maybe he still has his talents, let's say so, and a weak point, he is a resonator of public sentiments, but he relays these sentiments only in his position as the head of the state, but nevertheless he understands that there will be opponents, we have any schedule, even if we come out with the ideal option to the border in 1991, some of the people will be categorically against any negotiations with russia, any. in this case, 50% will not be enough, this is my belief, the maximum that can be agreed on is only a ceasefire, along a certain contact line, we will not be talking about any territorial concessions, absolutely, this is simply unacceptable, and i think zelensky understands this perfectly, and

when sociologists ask this question, this is an indicator, an indicator of readiness for peace, by the way, here is the other one. . research, there were tougher questions, the fact that the mirror of the week was ordered by the center, there, please note, a relative majority, not an absolute, relative majority for peace negotiations, but there is an active minority that will do against, against these negotiations, and what to do in this one situation, well, maybe, here they mentioned the cliché, maybe, although this is the idea of ​​zelensky himself in 22nd year, in march 22nd year, well, maybe if there are... some unpleasant options, for example, some concessions will have to be made, well, for example, there is the rejection of nato, zelensky does not want to do this, and neither do the majority of ukrainians, but what to do, war, continuation of the war, or such a concession, he will say, okay, let's stop hostilities, yes, let let's hold a referendum and let the people decide whether they

want to abandon nato or not i do not rule out such options, the main law states the movement to... firstly, and secondly, you know very well the referendum of 1991, march and december, there is already one right, right, but i what am i talking about, no, the referendum in this case will not be a decision, but rather a legitimization, he zelenskyi will not want to take responsibility for some unpopular decisions, and this may be a form of rejection of some, let's say, compromise option, that's just it. .. a theoretical model, but the public mood is now ambivalent, at the same time, people are tired of the war, the relative majority is ready for negotiations, the absolute majority does not want negotiations on russian terms, does not want to, but unfortunately, a large part of ukrainians is not ready to fight now, and this is also

the harsh truth, and all this is combined at the same time , and that is why zelensky will maneuver, he has no other choice. now he is forced to take into account both military, resource, and diplomatic factors, regarding the idea of ​​ending the war by the end of the year, well, i would say yes, somewhere this desire is a bit idealistic, somewhere, let's say, a tactical game, well here is a representative of the vatican, he is told what he wants to hear, so far i do not see any objective, military, political prerequisites for the end of active... military operations by the end of the year, no i see such prerequisites, well, i only have one remark, regarding referendums, we only implemented the decision of one referendum, it is a referendum on the independence of ukraine on december 1, 19, so we didn’t have one in ukraine, there were only two referendums,

there was a referendum during the huchma , which wolf, year and 2000 and that's all, yes, and yes, i also have one remark to mr. volodymyr's words, that we also have historical analogies, when a revolution against britain began in ireland in 1919, and then in the 21st year, the british said : ok, but let's hold a plebiscite, and six north- west, north-east games have expressed a desire to remain part of britain. and it divided irish society and those who fought together, brothers who fought against britain from under. started a civil war among themselves, because some of them said, well, if someone doesn't like living in ireland, then a suitcase at the london station, yes there like, and

the confrontation was internal social until it led to the civil war, so i absolutely agree with my colleague, i absolutely agree that even going to the borders in 1991 will not cool down some heads , because they will say something like russia must be destroyed. but they saw in this murder such a trigger of discord , provoking a conflict inside ukraine, that is why iryna farion was chosen as a symbolic victim, who very actively and aggressively spoke out not just in defense of ukrainian languages, and there is criticism of russian-speaking ones, and that's why we decided, yes, if we remove it, it could upset galicians, ukrainian-speakers. against the russian-speaking people, and russia wants to divide us among themselves, wants to provoke an internal war among themselves, unfortunately, we

already have manifestations of internal conflicts, but russia wants to add this, so irina firion, according to the kremlin, was suitable for this role, well, they expected that it might work, but i believe that ukrainian society reacted very wisely, and here are the appeals that... there were respect for irina farion, no matter who treated her before, and appeals that we cannot clarify our relationship with each other now, we must maintain unity, and here the reaction was responsible, balanced, and here i think , that this is how we need to respond to various complex and tragic, dramatic challenges that may appear, or that russia may throw at us, that's why i am convinced of this. thank you, mr. volodymyr, mr. viktor, i don’t even know what to add, i completely agree with my colleague, it’s not enough when someone nominated the version that, well, this was not beneficial for russia,

because they used, including farion, she provoked internal conflicts very often, so why kill a person who provoked a conflict in ukrainian society by himself, but who absolutely agrees with a colleague, that this is precisely the russian method. because it was assumed that this would drive us into an even bigger clinch, and if someone says that there is no tragedy in this, someone will be fiercely defensive and it will come up again and those who say ukraine is not ukraine forward, and ukraine forward, but they are fighting for ukraine under the ukrainian flags, who will say that if you speak russian, you... there will be a lot of trouble and what will start, but nothing has started, the nation was not divided by this death, but probably even connected, because

everyone, even if someone does not understand with their mind that the russian federation is behind this, then at the level of intuition, at the level of feelings, people felt it, probably, yes, gentlemen, we will wait for the investigation of this case, and that our investigative bodies will simply dot the dots and... maybe, maybe, there will be another case considered in the context of a terrorist attack, because it is a terrorist act and aims to intimidate or sow fear or hatred in the society in ukraine, i hope that this will still happen, and all the dots in this story will be placed, because it is necessary for ukrainian society. thank you gentlemen for participating in the program, viktor boberenko and volodymyr fesenko were guests of today's program, during everything on... our broadcast, friends, we conducted a survey, we asked you today whether you consider the liberation of crimea realistic by military means, let's look at the results

of the survey that we conducted on tv: 75% yes and 25% no. we also conducted this survey on youtube and the ratio on youtube is as follows: 73% yes, 27%. no, friends, this is where i will put an end to our program. let me remind you that we work every weekday evening at 20:00 except monday, there will be a new broadcast tomorrow, please come to the verdict, there will be new guests, there will be new topics, and don't forget that you can watch us on youtube and facebook, and there actually to support their own like our broadcasts, which run parallel to the telecast. i will put an end to this, please. all the best, take care of yourself and your loved ones, goodbye.

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vesna charitable fund opened a fundraiser. for the purchase of modern drones and electronic warfare systems for the third separate assault brigade of the 110th and 47th brigades of the armed forces of ukraine. it was these soldiers who stood to the last and defended the avdiiv direction back in the spring, now they are defending the pokrovsky direction, very, very well a tense place on the front, a very difficult direction, so resources need to be replenished, and they... urgently need flying weapons and modern means of countering enemy drones, these technologies are critically important for the protection of our fighters, so our goal is uah 3,500,000, and pam remember that here every donation is very important, it brings victory closer, and these are beautiful brigades, beautiful fighters who really, really need your e...