by the way, so yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have a different opinion, please leave it in the comments below this video, if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for the numbers if you think realistic liberation of crimea by military means 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, i want. introduce the guests of today's studio, this is victor boberenko, a political scientist, an expert of the bureau of analysis and politicians mr. viktor, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good health. volodymyr fesenko, political scientist, chairman of the board of the center for applied political research, penta. mr. volodymyr, good evening. thank you for joining the broadcast. greetings, good evening. well, since, gentlemen, we're asking our audience today whether they think a layoff is realistic. by military means, i

will only make a small remark that the head of the armed forces of ukraine, oleksandr syrskyi, stated this in an interview with the guardian, and we are actually asking what do our viewers think, is it possible or impossible, let's do a blitz survey and you will answer these questions, mr. volodymyr, please, well, from the point of view of not influencing our audience, it would be better to talk about it at the end ask, and this is how we will influence, well, the answer is short. i am convinced that there are such military plans and there were back in the day, hello, yes, we hear you, we hear, hello, mr. volodymyr, we hear you, speak, we hear, we have some communication problems, let's solve the communication problems speaking with volodymyr fisenko, sir viktor, please, i am sure that yes, not only that, i am sure that crimea has been declared.

easier than donbass, because donbass is actually an agglomeration, it has many cities, it is a stone jungle, and if the russian federation took avdiivka for six months, then we cannot take donetsk like that, as they will destroy avdiivka with its inhabitants in one fell swoop, this if our city, and if our residents were there, even if they were under occupation, but crimea is comparatively easier to take, yes, if they knock down the crimean bridge there, they will knock down all the logistics. and they will have, as their raw material said, yes, there the time has come to make difficult, difficult decisions, well, that's how it is. well, why, actually, we are also talking about crimea, i already said, because general syrskyi said that the armed forces of ukraine are ready to liberate crimea by military means, but all these statements were made against the background of boris johnson, a great friend of ukraine, announcing the so- called a plan, a peaceful plan, how to achieve

a truce between russia and ukraine in a column in the daily mail, the former british prime minister wrote about what trump can give if he wins the elections in the united states america, more weapons to ukraine, to ukraine in order to push the russians back to the borders of 2022, and they say, the borders of 2022 can be like a plan for some kind of peace talks. and in this way the russians will be forced to conduct these negotiations, ukraine can be invited to the eu and nato, although we have already been invited to the eu, we are still waiting for this invitation to nato, and 70,000 ukrainian soldiers, in case a peace agreement is reached, they can replace american soldiers from europe, in those bases, american bases, where they are now...

americans, and this will allow trump to facilitate financing, or let's say, remove this financial burden from him, again, in the event that trump is the new president of the united states of america, and putin, in order to save face, he can be offered protection in russian in ukraine , or russian-speaking, and the fact that russia can return to the big seven, i.e. at the same time, the kmis published information that 55% of ukrainians are against any territorial concessions by the russian federation in order to achieve peace, well, it is meant this is up to the borders of the 22nd year, that's exactly 55%, they say no-no-no, let's go to the borders of the 91st year. at the same time, the share of ukrainians who are ready

for territorial concessions in order to achieve peace and preserve independence as soon as possible is gradually increasing, but kmis insists that as of may 24 , 32% of the respondents are ready for compromises, for territorial compromises, but the majority of ukrainians, as i have already said said, 55% still oppose any territorial concessions to russia, and sociologists note that in the period from may 22 to on may 23, the situation was different, only 8-10 respondents were ready to make concessions, the absolute majority of 82-87% was stable. were opposed to any concessions, well, this is the sociology, and such statements and such a plan that boris johnson made public, i hope that volodymyr khysenko has already joined our broadcast, rejoined, because we had problems with communication, mr. volodymyr, you we don't

have it yet, mr. viktor, i'm turning to viktor boberenko, what do you think, is it possible? the plan that was announced by boris johnson, one and to be one of the drafts of the future peace agreement, which will be rejected, because we understand that there is a peace plan of zelenskyi, three points of which were discussed at the first peace summit, seven points were lost somewhere, and now zelenskyi is talking about what we have there will be a new peace plan by the end of the year, but he says it will be by november, and he doesn't say, so what? will be the basis of this plan, because if the basis of this plan is that you withdraw the troops first, and then we will talk about peace, then it is clear that no one will come to this summit, it is also understandable, i would like to have such troubles, he says, i was at a security conference in may, there was also a representative

of the servants of the people, uh, and i asked such uncomfortable questions, well, towards the authorities, yes, which i think ... that the allies are not voicing on camera, they say to volodymyr zelensky, okay, volodymyr oleksandrovich, if even you, well, a miracle will happen, and you went to the borders in 1991, there you went to the kerch bridge, in krasnodon and in luhansk, there are yellow and blue flags, and you have answers to questions that are so difficult, but where are you will take... there are tens of thousands of teachers of literature and the ukrainian language who will replace those teachers in crimea and donbas, who are currently teaching crimean and donetsk children there, that russia is our sacred state, of course, they

cannot come within a kilometer of the children let them in, you have a replacement for these teachers, and you have, it is clear that elections in donbas and crimea cannot be held there for several years. that is, some local military administrations will rule there, and there will be some kind of kerch, city military administration, you have specialists to come there and he will head the fact that you can't hire local people there, he will head all the administrations there, and he will appoint specialists to the entire pyramid to make heads of departments there, you have these people, yes, and this is the question, well, direct management, yes, but then there are also... questions of such an ethical level, okay, you know that there is how many, where there is the largest population of widows, it is not in lviv, not in kyiv, not in kharkiv, but it is not in kaluga and not in this somewhere in bratsky or in irkutsk, yes, it is in

donetsk, the most widowed people, therefore that there is a philharmonic hall, there teachers were driven into local storms and the peasants were beaten, yes, those peasants have widows and children. there, that is, this child will enjoy the same benefits as the child of a deceased participant in the war, and the disabled person who fought against us, but he is our citizen, he should receive benefits, whether he will receive them or not, and we don't have any answers to this, and boris johnson will say on camera that crimea is ukraine, wow, and everyone will talk, and not on camera, they will say to zelensky on the sidelines: "volodymyr oleksandrovich, do you have any answers to this?". question, so maybe it is not necessary to enter crimea, maybe it is not necessary to enter donbas, maybe it is enough to re-designate the melitopol cherry as ukrainian, that is , ideally it will be zaporizhia aes will liberate melitopol, berdyansk, conditionally, koholka,

iskadovsk, go to chengar and the excavation still does not move on, then go to the format of peace negotiations, there will certainly not be peace, there will be some kind of truce, but a truce... they have been living in korea there for 80 years, yes, 70 years, 70 years , the falkland variant, he is 40 years, they have been living for more than 40 years. the british and argentinians live without agreeing on the status of the falkland islands, live and live, and you will consider the status of crimea for 40 years, let's stop, and they will really encourage us to negotiate, and no one will encourage us to hold negotiations that direct peace with the russian federation and that ukraine recognizes crimea as russian is impossible, because it is a criminal offense, the politician who... first says: let's sacrifice crimea for peace, he is a criminal, he is needed for the sbu

arrested, and it is from 10 years to life, but no one is talking about the fact that, come on, zelenskyy already once said, just stop shooting, and now they will tell him, volodymyr oleksandrovich, just stop shooting, here your quote from the 18th year, let's just stop shooting, then we will disperse the artillery, we will withdraw the tanks to 20 km each, then... conditionally from bangladesh, from pakistan, from paraguay, but then we will demobilize the armies, well, it's still cool, yes, and we will talk for 40 years about whose crimea, after all, and here, well, such formats will be offered, they will definitely be offered, they will be offered from the spring, but not as zelensky wants, but by november, by november, putin will not be ready for this format, why, because putin is sure. well, it’s understandable, putin is a fool who gets rich with his opinion, putin is no strategist, but he thinks something, that he

will break us, well, he thinks on the basis of racism, racist ideology, that they are the strongest of all, they are the coolest of all and that they will destroy our front during the winter, we we will freeze, they will destroy all the energy facilities there everything, they will win and they will conditionally have everything tip-top there, because putin is again in what paradigm putin, putin thinks that the real politician, that... trump will come to win, that on january 20 there will be some kind of inauguration of trump conditionally , they will give him two or three weeks there, and already in february putin, xi jinping and trump will gather, just as truman, churchill and stalin once gathered in podzdam and divided, made the borders of poland, cut it without poland itself, no one asked the poles, and putin thinks that it will be the same, and only when a conditional hangover comes in... putin, when it passes february, march will begin, and he will understand that there is no victory at the front, and trump is not at all

ready to hand over ukraine to putin just for good looks, yes, putin, and then putin will be ready for negotiations, just in this format of negotiations , when putin also wants peace, because now putin does not want peace, and no one will come to the zelenskyi summit, if it is before the new year, why, they, he even... did not come there with their war horse lavava, thank you, sir viktor, volodymyr fesenko joined us, unfortunately the connection is bad, because there are obviously problems with mobile operators, forgive me, mr. vladimir, how do you evaluate all the peace plans that are now starting to appear, including johnson's performance with reference to trump, or whether it is about the fact that some conspiracies are happening now. talks about some kind of peace talks, about some kind of peace plan, about how, how exactly this peace plan

should be built, there is talk in beijing, zelenskyi says that our foreign minister and chinese foreign minister vaani have reached an understanding, so the excuse of peace agreements, it just floats, and what, what can you say about this process that is now... taking place, well, there is no process, except for the information skirmish, except for the talk of peace talks, there are no peace talks, moreover, there is not even no movements regarding, for example, the discussion of specific issues from which any peace talks should begin, when they should take place, in what format, what the agenda is, and there is nothing close to that, and i think that, well, not before the end of the presidential negotiations. .. elections in the usa, this will not be discussed, and the information conflict is definitely there, yes,

there are no peaceful, real peace plans either, what is in boris johnson's column is not a peace plan, it is a set of ideas and proposals, and there are not many of them, just a few ideas, and i'm skeptical of the definition that this is trump's peace plan, who has read this column, and i advise you to read the first source, not the news, yes, it is noticeable there, it is about ... the continuation of the controversy, the discussion between johnson and trump, the column was written after a meeting with trump, and it seems to me that johnson is here. continues this conversation, there is flattery against trump, more than half, the beginning, half of this column is flattery against trump, and in general this is the image of the new churchill, and this is an obvious exaggeration, maybe it was done deliberately, or maybe johnson thinks so, the key the idea is that as for ukraine, we hardly

talk about it, and this is the key idea of ​​this column, before starting any negotiations, it is necessary to provide ukraine with... more weapons, the only way to peace negotiations, a realistic way, is the maximum military strengthening of ukraine, and i am absolutely with that i agree, this is the only way to future negotiations, putin will only understand the language of force until there is parity on the front, the enemy is not stopped, there will be no peace talks, or they will be negotiations under the dictation of russia, which is unacceptable and unconditional for us. we cannot go to such negotiations, this is the situation, so i advise you to read johnson, but johnson's realistic idea, that we do not understand, some concessions will have to be made, i agree with my colleague, there can be no territorial concessions and language there according to johnson's logic, if you read his column, well, he actually hopes that at

the expense of military aid it will be possible to push the russians out there at the... border, the term borders cannot be used under any circumstances, the only internationally recognized borders, well, the borders that are called the borders of 1991, everything, everything else is a boundary there, or there is a line of contact, somewhere it is the border with russia, the front line in odessa, and there will be nothing else, so there this house is quite conditionally everything is said about it, some ideas are very, i would say idealistic, putin to us nothing to give nothing will be given, this must also be understood, our side, i agree with my colleague, cannot legally give up any territories, at most we can agree on a ceasefire, that is, de facto part of the occupied territories will remain under russian control, but where - we cannot and will not recognize de facto de jure, just as we do not recognize the occupation

of crimea or most of donbas, and we do not recognize other occupied territories as russian either. so that in this sense the status of the occupied territories is a dead end and in most other issues will be the same situation, but again about negotiations, i think that not before the end of the presidential elections in the usa, if trump becomes president, he will initiate peace talks, this is the only thing that can be predicted, for sure, but how will continue, the options may be different, here the question is whether trump will become president. from recent events, the possibility that kamala harris could become the president of the united states of america will obviously increase by the day, considering, well, take your time, serhiy, take your time, i think that the situation is not so simple here, but in america they know how to use the so-called formative sociology no worse than in our country, in fact, yes, now

the situation has leveled off a little, the democrats have a chance, and therefore yes, the winner is currently unknown. and we don't need to bet on anyone now, but if it's about the american elections, what about the negotiations, we need to play a complicated game now, why zelensky started talking about peace talks in connection with the trump factor, plus some of our friends and there are other countries that say, well, we need to start negotiations with russia, but the key phrase of kuleba in china is that it is impossible to negotiate with the current position. there, well, you can translate it differently, there are conscientious, virtuous, although these concepts are not compatible with russia, in fact, but this is just a hint, well, if russia gives us ultimatums, what negotiations with russia can be about, by the way, i will pay attention , because everyone is talking about china only in the context of peace talks, in reality the situation is more complicated, why china,

china invited us, we have not been there for 12 years the minister of foreign affairs, well, maybe less, because... yanukovych still went in the 13th year, but nevertheless, our first persons in china had not been there for more than 10 years, they suddenly invited us here, and not only because that china is now interested in being a mediator there again, there are also interesting circumstances: in china , as far as i know, they are very dissatisfied with putin's visits to north korea, to vietnam, to the vault in china's backyard, putin began to implement his own diplomacy, and even more so in beijing dissatisfied with the visit of fashion, the pompous visit to moscow, and in the west, even in russia itself, everyone is writing about the fact that this is about china, in particular, because... india thus balances its relations with china through russia, and russia weakens its dependence on china through the intensification of relations with india, and for china this didn't

like it, and that's why the gesture, the kuleba invitation. yes, but ukraine will take advantage of this opportunity to some extent, although there will be no breakthroughs in terms of peace negotiations. and lastly, do not confuse peace summits with peace talks - they are not the same thing, they are... different tracks, parallel, peace summits are, well, that's it, this is zelensky's favorite format, he likes it, and he believes that it will influence putin, i'm not sure about it, but international support, a menu for negotiations, yes, it will perform this function, russia will not participate there, because this format does not correspond to russian interests, and it is not their playground, it is a game on someone else's field, so russia will not be there, and the real negotiations will be in a narrow format. with mediators and in such a rather closed mode, so these are different things, negotiations will not be inevitable, but not now and i think not

earlier next year. well, here's what zelensky himself says about the need to end the war as soon as possible, and he met with the state secretary of the holy see, cardinal pietro parolin, and he literally said the following, as follows. let's listen. thank you for your participation in the peace summit, this was the first step, only the first step, or already the first step, all these steps are very important for us and it is important that you support them, and i heard your words, i think that we all understand that we must end the war as soon as possible, of course, so as not to lose human lives mr. victor. how can we end the war as soon as possible when russia speaks to us in the language of ultimatums, well, russia can

only be defeated on the battlefield, this is the fastest way, for us, of course, we understand that, as the kievan wrote, but the russian writer bulgakov is not just a man deaths, sudden deaths, yes, then... putin's death can be a window of opportunity for us to do something somewhere, again we understand what it is, well, when any society is tired of war, we have now seen that our society is tired of war, and it can be seen from the polls, yes, last year 10% were ready to cede territory, now... 30 are already 32%, it is clear that putin thinks that by spring there will be more than half of them, yes, who will simply say no, let my

husband be there or my son come back, i want to go to crimea, that's what i hope for in the russian federation, but let's think about the fact that the russian federation is also getting tired of the war, they are getting tired, and in an authoritarian country, someone will deny, there may be spit on fatigue, yes, but... meanwhile, society may care, but the army does not care. we know how the russian army crumbled in the first world war, when they simply refused to hold the front, and whole companies, battalions, and yes, divisions fled from the front, just not that they fled, but abandoned the front, and so do we, we cannot to say, but i know, and all of us, those who have served, know that when it is most difficult for a soldier to fight, it is either november, or february, february, march, when winter is already ending, somewhere else, well, in general , it is bad, and the russian army can be true start raining in february, march, and putin thinks that we will rain, here is another thing i would like

to say, this is unambiguous, when we can, well, really improve our negotiating conditions, yes, no, not just when their army starts to pour down, imagine that war is like boxing, imagine how volodya klitschko, the younger brother of the mayor of kyiv, used to fight. i like to watch this match, it's a real pleasure, how a ukrainian beats a russian, yes, he beat him briskly in the first, third, fifth round, and already in the eighth yes, povetkin was swollen and covered in blood, but volodya was already like that, and in the 12th round they were already holding on to each other, and there they were holding on so as not to fall, here we are, imagine that we are now somewhere in the eighth round from 12 or in the seventh, and we feel bad, but also... the russians feel bad, we feel that we are at the limit of our possibilities, yes, but we must understand that the russians are also at the limit of their economic possibilities, they brought

the cannon there. of the 48th year of graduation to the front, we understand all this, and with this understanding we must relate to the future peaceful negotiations, we think that everything is already approaching, we are about to rain everything, but we must understand that the enemy is raining, and therefore we need to get together, and as boris johnson advises, come out prepared in the spring and say that there is no way, at least we have to go to changar and perekop, to berdyansk. and then it is possible that somewhere there is already saying something about something, but not before, and it is necessary to focus on this, so that the government, society, friends, we will have to survive this winter, and we will be pushed to negotiations, only somewhere in february, march they will say, but if we have great negotiating positions, or we say, wait, we will now go to chongar and dig, then we will see, or how you are doing... you are now

testing tv viewers, whether the deoccupation of crimea is possible, that is also good option, yes, let 's go to kerch, and there we will see, well, yes, thank you, mr. viktor, mr. volodymyr, in these conversations, how to end the war as soon as possible, this is, in principle, the hope of ukrainians as well, of course, volodymyr zelenskyy is not only the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, he is the president of ukraine, he speaks. about what the ukrainians are waiting for, and how this figure, the number of people who are ready to make territorial concessions, is growing, about this sociology of kmisov, i mentioned whether or not this would, well, let's say, be a reason for, conclude an agreement, where, where will these territorial concessions be, when this number, for example, will be more than 50%, and they will say,

well... sociology says that more than 50% of ukrainians allow this, listen, zelensky, when he won the election , when he was supported by 70%, in the 19th year, he quickly began to make the negotiation process, and not just sociology, and the real results of the elections were on his bot, and with an overwhelming, let's say, number, but when he started these negotiations, he faced. the opposition of the active minority, i remember it very well, i was twice, well, during the current administration, i was twice in the president's office, it was in october, and i think it was at the beginning of november 19, well, when normandy was being prepared meeting in paris, mr. volodymyr, mr. serhiy, i was one of the co-founders of the surrender resistance movement, there

were more participants of these protests, i why do i mention this, because they, i mean both zelenskyi and yarmak, not only them, perfectly understand that in society there are different moods, different positions, and he is like a normal politician, he has already become a politician, although it is possible he still has his talents. anti, let's say so, and a weak point, he is a resonator of public sentiments, he relays these sentiments, but already in his position as the head of the state, but nevertheless he understands that there will be opponents, we have any schedule, even if it is ideal option, we go to the border in 1991, all the same part of the people will be categorically against any negotiations with russia, any, in

this case under... will not be enough, this is my belief, the maximum that can be agreed on , this is only about a ceasefire, along a certain line of contact, we will not be talking about any territorial concessions, absolutely, this is simply unacceptable, and i think zelensky understands this perfectly, and when sociologists ask this question, this is an indicator, an indicator readiness for peace, by the way, ot another study, there were tougher questions, the fact that the mirror of the week was ordered by the center of the mind, there, please note, the relative majority is not absolute, the relative majority is for peace negotiations, but there is an active minority that will act against, against these negotiations, and what to do in this situation, well , perhaps, here the cliché was mentioned, perhaps, although this is the idea of ​​zelenskyi himself.