there is a reasonable policy, we will discuss it, everyone will have their own position, the question is different, i am not sure that it will appear on the 20th, because the monomajority cannot agree among themselves, so let them be determined from the position of the president, who they are given certain tasks. another statement made by zelensky during the meeting with the state secretary of the holy see, cardinal pietro parolini, he said that... that ukraine wants to end the war as soon as possible, let's listen to what the president of ukraine said. thank you for your participation in peace summits it was the first step, only the first step, or already the first step. all these steps are very important to us and it is important that you support them and i heard your words. i think we all understand that we have to finish. as soon as possible, of course, so as not

to lose human lives. do these words mean that there is some kind of draft of peace negotiations and it is more or less clear on what conditions should be agreed upon, because the issue of ending the war as soon as possible does not depend on how ukraine will prescribe these conditions, but on how the party that is the aggressor will go to these negotiations. will he accept these, their rhetoric has changed a lot, i don't fully understand, and no, it changes within the framework of one and the same interview, he first says that we have to return the borders of 1991, at the same time, he says that we need to end the war and some kind of peace plan will be presented by the end of the year, it’s just that journalists are probably not well versed in ukrainian politics, yes, he has a plan, zelenskyi’s plan, not even ukraine’s plan, it’s something soft. i do not agree with such

formulations, because there are no plans of president zelensky, there is a plan of ukraine, of the state, because the president is an institution, it is not a personality, and if the head of state has forgotten it, then one should simply read the constitution, which he is the guarantor of things are there, but going back to the issue of narratives, they have changed in general, because before that it was the year 91 and full stop, and from... now we are starting to hear that there will be some other plan, what was considered at the peace summit , there were three points, part of which are not at all related to the 10-point peace plan of president zelensky, what will happen with the withdrawal of russian troops, we refuse it, saving human lives, then let's sit down and talk about it publicly, this is the first thing, and the second thing is to answer the question, and why wasn't it done there in the 22nd year when? where there were plus or minus the

same conditions that changed, in connection with what it was caused, plus those statements that are heard from the president when he says that russia loses for one ukrainian, lost for one a ukrainian soldier six of his own, well , a serviceman, to be honest, i thought that it seemed to me, i started watching this interview, i thought that maybe one of the journalists made a mistake, no, the president said... said that one of our dead is equal to six dead racists, okay, but then i discovered the ukrainian truth and looked at how many russians died according to statistics, and divided it by six, and got 93,500 ukrainians, and if so, the military, and if so, how does it correlate with the fact that a few months ago, president zelenskyi said about 37, i don't take it now, i would... i

agree with the position that it may not be public information, but then it will be determined, because if someone else came out and said that we are changing plans there and already not the 91st year, we are talking about the fact that not 37 thousand, but almost 100, then he would have received 111 high treason, well, let's be honest, if one of the journalists or politicians did it, here i see such narratives, i not saying it's good or bad, i'm 100% in favor that we have to... save people's lives and do everything to to preserve both the people and the statehood of our country, but if our plans change, we have to, not us, the president has to, because we had nothing to do with these plans with you, to show new ones and note them primarily not for international partners, and for ukrainians, ukrainians who are fighting for the survival of our state, the survival of our country and the preservation of our country, if we hypothesize... to assume that

such a peace agreement between ukraine and russia can be, or peace negotiations, obviously it will be some kind of international legal document, and an international legal document must be an agreement, an international agreement. any deal, whatever it is, has to be approved in parliament or in a referendum, these narratives, are beginning to be heard, that we will think about how to hold a referendum there, my question is, if you can hold a referendum, not through action, where you draw any result you want, and the referendum, so let's hold elections, well, the term of the president is over, the term of parliament is over, let's hold elections, because it looks different

as manipulation, when they say, no, here we can, you know, here we can, here we can't, here we are wrapping up the onion, they are ready to hold a referendum. and they started talking about it, but no elections, i do not believe at all in the possibility of holding real democratic elections in today's conditions for a number of reasons: the first is that we have a destroyed infrastructure in a small amount of territory where these elections could be organized . secondly, we have a huge number of people abroad and under the terms of the law on mobilization, they will not vote because they will not come update your data, plus... the third component is the military, who will not be able to vote, if we are talking about elections, if we are talking about the fact that in the office of the president on his knee there , some very smart managers will think of drawing the results of this election or this referendum, it's not an election, it's what

's happening, for example, in russia, or in belarus, where lukashenko did what he wanted, putin did what he wanted, we, we're not russia. as leonid danilovich said, ukraine is not russia and never will be, and ukrainians will never be the way we wanted to see putin, or those who look like him, listen, we had several referendums in my memory in march 1991, the majority of ukrainian citizens voted for a union treaty, so that we would have voted on the contrary six months later, leonid danylovich, whom you have already mentioned, held a referendum on bicameralism. parliament regarding the reduction of the number of deputies, the results of the referendum have not been implemented, the servant of the people conducted polls during local elections in 2020, and also, well, they wanted, like a referendum, to, well, have the status of a referendum, but that would be against the law, and if they were held

as a referendum, it would have legal consequences for the organizers of this referendum, and it will have legal consequences anyway the consequences sooner or later for the organizers of this referendum, because until now... it is clear from what resources it was held, i do not personally believe that there will be a referendum, but i do not, i mean this, that survey, and in general, how is it like sand, like water in sand, i have a feeling that these negotiations and all are peaceful these and the so -called peace plan of johnson and trump, which was made public, that this is the background of this great peace agreement between ukraine and russia, and that it is obvious that we will have it in the 25th year. there will be elections, and presidential elections, and elections of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, as far as possible, taking into account the factors and the facts about which you said that there are many ukrainians abroad, that voting will be necessary, it is possible, if

it is carried out several conditions, the first is the cessation of the hot phase of the war, that's right, the general lifting of martial law and its return. to a normal life, most likely changes to the electoral legislation, because it will be difficult enough to hold elections under the current one, the next thing is to hold elections according to the democratic principles by which the entire european union and the democratic states of this world live, with the access of journalists, observers, and the return of people to the territory of ukraine, who today are outside the borders of our state for that... they took part, plus the military, who also have the right to take part in the elections in the first place as candidates and those who will to decide who will lead this state, so it is literally superficial and very short, regarding the fact that these elections are held,

elections, elections can be held only in a state in which freedom of speech, democracy, the rule of law remain. honest courts appeared, and this is the difficult work that i think you and i will have to do, i will ask very briefly, short answer. will you go to the next parliamentary presidential election? look, now i am not engaged in elections at all, i am engaged in the preservation of the state, won, and peace and victory came to our cities, but when the elections will be held, i took part in all the elections, i think that i will not miss the next ones either, thank you, it was dmytro razumkov, people's deputy of ukraine, former speaker of the ukrainian parliament, friends , we are working live and conducting polls, we will see the results of the interim poll, do you think it is realistic to liberate crimea by military means, so? 57% yes, 23% no. there are discounts, they are the only

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control program with tatiana shustrova on the espresso tv channel. vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of air time. two hours of your time. two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives. two hours to keep up with economic and sports news. two o'clock in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become languages ​​for many. in the afternoon, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, espresso in the evening. good evening, this is the second part of the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, and in this part... of the verdict, we will talk about the following. the specter of peace talks. world leaders

are proposing scenarios for a peaceful settlement of the russian-ukrainian war in advance. are there prospects in johnson trump's plan? territorial compromises in society, ideas about the possibility of giving up territories for the sake of peace are increasingly being thrown around. why is the share of ukrainians who agree to concessions increasing? she died for the ukrainian position. show murder of a bright ukrainian nationalist. in the center of lviv , it has not yet been revealed who is behind the shooting of iryna farion? we will talk about this and other things on air with our guests for the next 45 minutes, but before we start our big conversation, i suggest our viewers take part in our survey. today we ask you about this, do you think?

are you realistic about the liberation of crimea by military means? so, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have... a different opinion, please leave it in the comments below this video. if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for the numbers if you think it is realistic to liberate crimea by military means - 0800 211 381 or 0800 211 382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will here are the results of this vote. i would like to introduce today's guest of our studio, this is victor boberen political scientist, expert of the bureau of analysis and policy. mr. viktor, i congratulate you. thank you for being with us today. good health. volodymyr fesenko, political scientist, chairman of the board of the penta applied political research center. mr. volodymyr, good evening. thank you for joining the broadcast. greetings, good evening. well, gentlemen, we are asking our viewers today

whether they consider it realistic to liberate crimea by military means. i will only make a small remark that... the head of the armed forces stated this in an interview with the guardian oleksandr syrskyi of the forces of ukraine, well, we ask, actually, what our viewers think, is it possible or impossible? let's do a blitz poll, and you will answer these questions, mr. volodymyr, please. well, from the point of view of not influencing our audience, it would be better to ask about it at the end, and that's how we will influence. well, the answer is short: i am convinced that there are such military plans. were back in the days, hello, yes, we hear you, we hear, hello, mr. volodymyr, we hear you, speak, we have some problems with communication, let's solve the communication problems with volodymyr fisenko, mr. viktor, please, i am sure that yes,

not only that, i am sure that it is easier to liberate crimea than donbas, because donbas is actually... the agglomeration is many places, it is a stone jungle, and if the russian federation took avdiivka for six months, then we cannot take donetsk like they did avdiivka, they will destroy it with its inhabitants, if it were our city, and if our residents were there even though it is under occupation, but crimea is comparatively easier to take, yes, knocking down the crimean bridge there will knock down all the logistics, and they will be, as he said, their raw materials. well , why are we actually talking about crimea, i already said, because general syrskyi said that the armed forces of ukraine are ready to liberate crimea by military means, but all these statements were made against the background of boris

johnson's publicizing a great friend of ukraine, the so-called plan, plan of peace, how to achieve re'. peace between russia and ukraine in a column in the daily mail , the former british prime minister wrote that trump can give more weapons if he wins the elections in the united states of america ukraine, ukraine in order to push the russians to the borders of 2022, and they say that the borders of 2022 can be a plan for some kind of peace negotiations, and in this way the russians will be forced. to conduct these negotiations, ukraine can be invited to the eu and nato, although we have already been invited to the eu, we are still waiting for this invitation to nato, and 70,000 ukrainian soldiers, in the event that a peace agreement is reached, they can replace american soldiers from europe, on those american bases, where

the americans are now, and this will allow make it easy for trump. funding, or, let's say, to remove this financial burden from him, again, in the event that there is trump, the new president of the united states of america, and putin, in order to save face, he can be offered protection in the russian language in ukraine, or russian speakers, and the fact that russia can return to the big seven, that is, g, g7, g7 and plus russia and... it is about the fact that russia can become a member of this international club, at the same time, the commission has published information that 55% of ukrainians against... any territorial concessions of the russian federation in order to achieve peace, well , this means up to the borders of the 22nd year, this is exactly 55%, they say no-no-no, let's go to the borders of the 91st

year, at the same time, the share of ukrainians who are ready for territorial concessions concessions for the fastest possible achievement of peace and preservation of independence are gradually increasing, but kmis insists that as of may 24th, to compromises, to territorial compromises. 32% of respondents are ready, but the majority of ukrainians, as i said, 55% are still against any territorial concessions of russia, and sociologists note that in the period from may 22 to may 23 the situation was different, only 8-10 percent of respondents were ready for concessions, the absolute majority of 82, 87% consistently opposed any concessions, well, this is the sociology: and such statements and such a plan that boris johnson has made public. i hope that volodymyr khysenko has already joined our broadcast, joined again, because we had problems with communication. mr.

volodymyr, are you with us? so far, we don't have it yet. mr. viktor, i am addressing viktor boberenko, in your opinion, can this plan, which was announced by boris johnson, be the same. one of the drafts of the future peace agreement, which will be rejected, because we understand that there is a peace plan of zelenskyi, three points of which were considered at the first peace summit, seven points were lost somewhere, and now zelenskyi says that we will have a new peace plan by the end of the year, well, he only says until the month of november, it will be like that, and he does not say, but what will be the basis of this plan, because if the basis of this plan is that you first... withdraw the troops, and then we will talk about peace, it is clear that no one will come to this summit, it is clear, and another thing, i would like to talk about such troubles, i was here in may at

a security conference, there was also a representative of the people's servants, and i asked such uncomfortable questions, well, in the direction of the authorities, yes, which i think are not voiced on camera by the allies. they say to volodymyr zelensky: okay, volodymyr oleksandrovich, if even you, well, a miracle will happen, and they went to the borders of 1991, there they went to the kerch bridge, in krasnodon and luhansk, there are yellow and blue flags, and you have answers to questions that are so difficult, but where will you get tens of thousands of teachers of literature and the ukrainian language there? who will replace those teachers in crimea and donbas, who are currently teaching crimean and donetsk children there, that russia is our sacred state,

of course, they cannot be allowed within a kilometer of the children, you have a replacement for these teachers, and you have , it is clear that elections in donbas and crimea cannot be held there for several years, that is, they will rule there some local military. administration, yes , there is some kind of kerch city military administration, you have specialists to come there and head it, you can’t take local people there, yes, they will head these administrations and in the whole pyramid, yes, they will make heads of departments, departments there specialists, you have these people, yes, and this is the question, well, direct management, yes, but then there are also questions of such an ethical plan, okay, you know that... how many are there, where are the most widows per thousand of the population, it's not in lviv, no in kyiv, not in kharkov, but it is not in kaluga and not in this, somewhere in bratsky, there or in irkutsk,

yes, it is in donetsk, the most widows per thousand people, because there is a philharmonic, there teachers were driven into local storms and knocked out peasants , but there are widows of those men, there are children there, that is , this child will enjoy the same... benefits as the child of our deceased participant in the war, and the disabled person who fought against us, but he is, after all, our citizen, he should receive benefits, he will receive them or not, and we do not have an answer to this, and here is boris johnson will say on camera that crimea is ukraine, huh, and everyone will talk, but not on camera, on the sidelines they will say to volodymyr oleksandrovich zelensky, you have the answers to these questions, so maybe you don’t need to go to crimea, maybe you don’t need to donbas is entering... maybe it will be enough to reassign the melitopol cherry tree as ukrainian, that is , ideally it will be the zaporizhia as, liberate

melitopol, berdyansk, conditionally, iskadovsk to go to chengar and dig and not move further, then go to the peaceful format there will certainly not be negotiations, there will be peace some kind of truce, but a truce with a truce, they have been living there in korea for 80 years, yes 70 years, 70 years, the falklands version is 40 years, they have been living there for more than 40 years, the english and argentines have been living there , without agreeing on... in the status of the falkland islands they live and live, well, you will consider the status of crimea for 40 years, so let's stop, and we will really be encouraged to negotiate, and no one will encourage us to hold negotiations so that direct peace with the russian federation and that ukraine recognizes crimea russian, it is impossible, because it is a criminal offense, the politician who will be the first to say: let's sacrifice crimea for peace, he is also

a criminal, he should be arrested by the sbu, and it is from 10 years to life, but no one he is not talking about the fact that come on, zelenskyy already once said, just stop shooting, and now they will tell him, volodymyr oleksandrovich, just stop shooting, here is your quote from 18, let's just stop shooting, then we will disperse the artillery, withdraw the tanks for 20 km each, then we will introduce some un troops there conditionally from bangladesh, from pakistan. from paraguay, but then we will demobilize the armies, well , it’s still cool, and we’ll be talking about whose crimea for 40 years, after all , they will offer such a format, they will definitely offer it, they will offer it from the spring, but not as zelensky wants, but by november, by november, putin will not be ready for this format, why, because putin is confident, well, of course, putin is a fool

who gets rich with his opinion, putin is no... strategist, but he somehow thinks that he will change us , well he is thinks on the basis of racism, rashist ideology, that they are the strongest of all, they are the coolest of all, and that they will winter, our front will crumble, we will freeze, they will destroy all energy facilities there and that's it, they will win and everything will be conditionally fine with them there - top, because putin is again in what paradigm is putin, putin thinks that realpolitik, that trump will come to victory, that on january 20... there will be some kind of inauguration of trump, they will give him two or three weeks there and already in february putin, xi jinping and trump will gather, as truman once gathered in podzada, churchill and stalin divided, made the borders of poland and cut it without poland itself, no one asked the poles, and putin thinks that it will be the same, and only when putin has a conditional hangover, when february passes, march begins, and he will understand that

there is no victory on... the front, and trump is not at all determined to hand over ukraine to putin simply for the good looks of putin, and then putin will be ready for negotiations, just in this format of negotiations, when putin wants to peace, because now putin does not want peace and no one will come to zelenskyi's summit, if it will be before the new year, why did they, he, even his war horse lavov, not come there, thank you, thank you, mr. viktor. we were joined by volodymyr fesenko, unfortunately, the connection is bad, because there are obviously problems with mobile operators, forgive me, mr. volodymyr, how do you evaluate all the peace plans that are now starting to appear, including those implemented by johnson with referring to trump, or whether it is about the fact that there are now some secret talks about some peace

talks, about some peace plan. about how exactly should this peace plan be built, there is talk in beijing, zelenskyi says that our foreign minister and china’s foreign minister wang reached an understanding, this is the reason for peace agreements, it just floats, and what can you say about this process, which is happening now, well , there is no process, except for the informational one. apart from talk of peace talks, there are no peace talks, moreover, there are not even any movements, for example, to discuss specific issues from which to start any peace talks, when they should take place, in what format, what the agenda is, and there is nothing like that close, and i think that, well, not before the end of the presidential elections in the usa, it will not be an obgo.