ukrainian deputies who vote for the law banning the uoc-mp are threatened with american sanctions, as the deputies themselves say. does this mean that there will be no ban, that is what we are talking about today, as well as who and how is using this topic during the election races in the united states. but we begin with the murder of iryna farion. this is svoboda live, my name is vlasta lazur. a suspect in the murder of the politician and linguist irina was detained in dnipro. farion, the suspect is 18 years old, as the journalists of radio svoboda's scheme program found out, the boy studied at the dnipro gymnasium no. 62. he played football at the city's children's and youth sports school. journalists contacted the suspect's father. in the comment, the man said that he was serving, he had not seen his son for a long time, but he learned about his detention from his wife. i'm at the front, now i haven't seen my son in person for a long time, we talked regularly. by phone - said the man. my

wife called me today and told me that my son was arrested. detention or arrest? here, too, it is not clear. not everything is like that it was smooth. the wife was kept outside the apartment, the equipment was taken away, and the son was tortured. there was no motive for farion's murder. he did not have any ukrainophobic views. he is a patriot. on the contrary, he completed uav control courses in order to join the ukrainian army, and played football. according to the version. investigation, while preparing for the crime, the guy allegedly rented at least three apartments in lviv. to the question, does the father know anything about his son renting an apartment in lviv? the man replied that it was unlikely that his son had the money for it, and with the detainee's mother journalists have not been able to communicate yet, her phone is switched off. volodymyr martynenko, adviser to the minister of internal affairs of ukraine, 15-21 years, joins the broadcast. congratulations. i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to the heroes, i will start with what the suspect's father probably remarked. in our

comment, he said that his son had no motive to kill iryna farion, do you see, from the information that we know is public so far, do you see any motive in an 18-year-old boy from dnipro to kill iryna farion, well i think that here is over proof base, including on the conclusion of whether there were motives, the investigators will work precisely, it is obvious that in order for this case to develop further, there must be some results regarding what the investigators have worked on in this direction, it is obvious that in order to in order to raise suspicions, it is obvious that there should be just the whole picture, including, including the motives for committing the crime, we, we do not know anything about the training of this boy, how well he can handle weapons and so on, well, father said he was going to the front, but from what we can see or whether you can state that iryna farion was killed by a person who professionally.

owned a weapon, well here it is very difficult to assess whether this person could professionally own a weapon or not, but obviously we know from the published information that there was a casing of makarov's pistol found at the scene of the murder, and accordingly, no distance from which the shooting took place, or anything else, it was not reported about it, so we can talk about something here quite a lot, and of course, what if it... was big, then there should there must be some special training, but if the shot was fired at close range, then it is obvious that there is no special special training in principle. you know, when this tragedy, this murder, happened, many people said that if the suspect was not found there for the first 48 or 72 hours, that's it, the case was buried. first, do you agree with these conclusions, and second, what should happen? in the near future, what evidence or

arguments does society need to see to make sure that there are really reasons to believe that that this guy killed, well, the first point, now he is still a suspect, he is reasonably suspected, but as far as i know, as far as i know, even the charges are not officially visible, the first point, the second point, it is obvious that in order to bring charges against him further to choose a preventive measure, then... there must be enough facts for the court to consider it and make a decision. the third point is that, for society, it is obvious that the attention of the whole society and the journalistic community is drawn to this event. itself and in the country, far beyond its borders, it is obvious that those law enforcement agencies, pre-trial investigation agencies should communicate here, clearly explaining to society how it can be made public at this

moment, at the moment of the investigation, so that society received this information from official sources and drew conclusions accordingly. obviously, such communication will be made at some stage, but i will repeat, the investigators are limited in what information they can release at this time. at the moment, while the investigation is still ongoing, and we heard about many different components that the investigators are considering, including whether there were, for example, the customers of this whistle, whether there were also accomplices. the commission of this crime, that is, there are still quite a few moments, and it is obvious that in order to reveal them, the investigation will work in a relatively closed mode, but i repeat once again, information that can be made public is very important for society, in relation to the first hours after committing

a crime, arresting a criminal, well, there is such a thing there are conflicting opinions about what is said that if no arrests are made in the first hours, then no arrests will be made after three, in fact there is a segment of solving crimes in the first hours or in the first minutes, it occupies a significant place, but it is definitely not the overwhelming majority of crimes, is revealed in the first hours, there is painstaking work by investigators, painstaking work by operatives, and when they analyze a huge database, a huge amount of information, video surveillance, a huge number of witnesses who could be there, who could observe, for example, what observed this... entrance, that this crime was being prepared for what time it was being prepared, that is, it is a huge mass of information, it must be worked with, it must be selected, and the enormous work of all those law enforcement officers who are involved in this, it sometimes does not give results for the first hour, minute or day or two, but as we see the results of the work

of investigators in solving particularly serious crimes, such as murder, when we look at the statistics in general across the country, how many of these crimes are solved, then we let's see that almost all of them are solved, there are more than 90%, 93 mani seems to be the last numbers, this is the percentage of these crimes that are solved, well, that is, out of ten murders, 9.5 are solved, but do you agree that the murder of irina farion, that's all - still belongs to the category of, well, those, i don't know, crimes, like what, you know, which are called a marker of how the law enforcement system works, like the murder of, for example, pavel sheremet. murderer who has not yet been found, i will tell you that there are those crimes that attract enormous public attention, and of course, these crimes are probably a priority for the law enforcement officers to

investigate, although again, whether it can be a priority, for example, the murder of someone known or someone completely unknown, well, for the investigators, it is necessary to work. absolutely in such and such directions, but here , of course, such marker investigations, of such socially noisy crimes, are very important for society, and this is not only murder, this is also beating there and this is a lot of other cases, but especially murder, and of course evaluate the work of the law enforcement system, and yes it's real it's it it's yes vladimir i have one last question, of course we don't want to guess here right now, but based on your experience from what we know in general , law enforcement says it 's most likely that this guy was just performer, but there is also a customer, do you lean towards this version, or do you support the opinion that most likely there was a customer? i have to work with the motive, what was

the motive, if the investigators determine that the motive could have been some, for example, for example, some money or something else, then it is obvious that in this case, we need to look for others. accomplices of this crime, or organizers, or even those who ordered this crime, here the question is for the investigators, i do not rule out that there may be a customer, and this customer may be both on the territory of our country and far beyond its borders, that is why the investigation justifies all the options, if they have a working, working version of this option in principle, then they will definitely investigate, they will definitely work on it and collect the evidence base. thank you very much, volodymyr martynenko, adviser to the minister of internal affairs. of ukraine 2015-2021, we talked about the arrest of the suspect in the murder of iryna farion. thank you. well, in the meantime, ukrainian deputies who vote for the law banning the uoc-mp are threatened with american sanctions. so, at least, says mp from the servant

of the people maryana bezugla. she publicly confirmed what we reported on tuesday, when we detailed this topic, that the united states is signaling washington against ukraine in... passing this law in in the form in which it is now, because it is said to be the persecution of christians. the narrative that the ukrainian government oppresses the faithful is actively spread in the states by lobbyists of the uocmp, the most famous among them. this was also noted by bezugla, but it should be added that earlier both the ukrainian and western press wrote a lot about it. persecution of believers is an extremely sensitive topic for americans, because most of them are christians of various denominations and churches, and that is, they will now be told, look, christians are being persecuted in ukraine, then how will you, christians, support ukraine with your taxes, and under such circumstances , all western support for ukraine will come under attack - bezugla claims. currently in each hryvnia. mainly the money of partners and a huge part of it is the funds of the usa, so standing up in the turbulent times of their elections is dangerous not

only for the concept of bipartisan support, but also for any support in general. to settle issues, provide additional clarifications, etc., and realizing that it is difficult to compete with the billions invested by the russians in lobbying and propaganda, another ukrainian delegation is leaving for the usa next week, which will conduct negotiations, gaining arguments regarding the categorical situation in the parliament. votes for the law on the prohibition of religious organizations with a center of influence in russia both opposition and government deputies are ready to vote for the document. just look, on tuesday they even blocked the platform together and demanded to put the law to a vote. then the servant deputy mykyta poturaev said that the leadership of the servant of the people faction was against it law, and therefore they do not put it to a vote. but it is obvious that even then kyiv received signals from washington not to adopt. the law, the deputies also told us about it, well , the next day the state service of ukraine for ethnopolitics and freedom

of conscience also made a statement, this is the body that from the very beginning worked together with the people's deputies on the very text of the draft law, and now the service criticized the document, there stated that after the first vote, the deputies introduced 1,200 amendments, among which, along with constructive proposals, there were outright nonsense and ideas aimed at discrediting ukraine. listen. until now, it has not been possible to clean the draft law of overt sovietism and shortcomings, we hope, not because of an evil intention. some of them threaten to turn the law into a laughingstock. for example, the draft law still contains the following prescription: those who want to establish ties with a prohibited religious organization, that is, the russian church, must obtain a special permit for this from the dss. it is difficult to imagine what kind of situation this one regulates prescription: who in their right mind would establish ties with an organization that became a continuation of... the current regime of the russian federation. who will give permission for this, how and why. we strongly request the legislators not to be ashamed

of such prescriptions. yevgenia kravchuk, deputy head of the servant of the people faction and you are also the deputy head of the committee on humanitarian information policy, joins our broadcast. the committee that made efforts to develop this bill. good evening. good evening, congratulations. and you are among those deputies, who are also on tuesday, well , at least we saw you there. near the rostrum, i understand that you also demanded the adoption of this bill in the second reading, well, i was there as a representative of the committee that unanimously recommended the bill for approval, and it is a bit strange to observe that this particular law has a different procedure than the recommendation of the committee to get into the hall , there is a collection of signatures, there are incomprehensible exercises, and every time these tasks... they change, so that the bill gets into the bill. do you think that the bill is of high quality, evgenia, i will ask you right away, do you think that it is

of high quality, i think that it is the kind that will work, it is clear that any text of the draft law can become more ideal, it is somehow better legally, some legal norms should be written down, by the way, we they just went to a meeting today with the speaker of the parliament, mr. ruslan stepanchuk, who, well, he himself is a lawyer, a civilian, and he himself worked on the text and... well , in my opinion and in the opinion of my colleagues not only from the faction, but also from the opposition, some certain things that he drew attention to, they really make sense, as they say, they have certain reasons, and what i can say for sure is that there is a decision of the conciliation council, that we will start the next plenary meeting with this law, there is also a decision of the conciliation council, the conciliation council is the leaders of precisely the faction groups, therefore... this is the whole parliament, it will be somewhere at the end of august, at the end of august you

will start considering this bill, well, it will be the second half of august, obviously, and there is a certain certain understanding that until august 15 there is such a time-out for that , so that everyone is calm, without of unnecessary emotions, they looked at the text again, communicated, including in the west, by the way, in my opinion, the communication is not enough, what is russia doing in the temporarily occupied territories? and then i saw that you were also in the states and you and your colleagues, journalists, if i understood correctly, were talking about how ukrainian churches are being destroyed in the occupied territories. absolutely all denominations, except the russian orthodox church or the moscow patriarchate. we, we talked about it, we are now, we will get to the states now, and there is something to talk about, but accordingly, after august 15, we still expect from this working group, which was created by the conciliation council, perhaps some recommendations or their vision, in particular, it was heard that somehow it should be prescribed so that this

commission, which consists of religious scholars and which determines the connection from the country aggressor, so that it is formed there not by the government or the state service for ethnopolitics and freedom of conscience, but to prescribe some procedure so that there is not even a hint that it is governmental, so that it is from the government, but this is still an open question, but , but see nonetheless the service for ethnopolitics and freedom of conscience directly publicly stated that the law is bad, that there are still some bad norms and constructs, that it contains no sanity. strange prescriptions, you have been preparing this bill for almost one and a half years, well, if we take into account when on december 22 volodymyr zelenskyi implemented the decision of the national security council on the protection of national security, both in the context of the uoc, mp, and the roc in ukraine. in october of last year, you voted for this law in the first reading, almost a year has passed, and it turns out that until the second

reading, you did not manage to write a draft law so that at least... the service for freedom of conscience, which worked side by side with you, had no complaints, well, how come, that is, even, even within ukraine , you could not agree, i i am not talking about western partners, well, what can i comment here, it is difficult for me to comment on this political style in general about savichina and so on, because there is no specific one, and on the issues that we discussed personally, and not through some posts on facebook, then a colleague with... we did not agree that the draft law, the preamble of the draft law should contain references to national security and the relevant conventions there, relevant articles of the convention on human rights, and by the way, we also discussed this with the speaker of the parliament today, and what about me this argumentation is sufficient for these links to be, regarding prescriptions, it’s already some kind of

simple, i don’t know, someone is writing there, it’s interesting, by the way, who is who, who makes these posts, because... well, in fact, everyone is a civil servant i will steal the services of freedom of conscience, ethnopolitics well, maybe it’s a tarpetc, maybe a tarpetc broke in, maybe they told you this at the committee , you didn’t take into account their comments , they already came out into the public space , the point here is that the decision is made collegially by the committee, and it’s a decision of different deputies from different factions, moreover, we even the work on the text has already been brought to the level of even those fractions that are not part of the committee, because we, for example, do not have representatives of the voice, we do not have representatives of trust there, but we have already done this work, moreover, we last week we spent, well, at least 8 hours, i just closed myself in the office and constantly talked about some things with my colleagues from des, but now their statements

from... boil down to some such nonsense, but without specifics, i am the only one that from the specifics i understood that they are against the reference to the national, ugh, well, such an interesting statement to the service of ethnopolitics and freedom of conscience, that their statements are reduced to nonsense, let's talk about the united states now, really, i, together with the journalists, returned from there we talked a lot with representatives of republican, christian, conservative circles, and i am forced to state that there... the opinion really prevails that in ukraine somehow christians are being persecuted there, and i have a simple question for you, what about you now , if such good work has not been done before, you want to convince your partners that this is not the case and that the ukrainian government does not intend to persecute christians with this law, and even more so, how do you want to do it by the middle of august, when

the law from your words must be adopted, well here it is important to emphasize that we still have to be guided by ukrainian interests, and to understand that we still want religious organizations to work in us, which are directly related to the russian regime or not, because everything else depends on this. after all, i got the impression from the latest events in the verkhovna rada and the conciliatory decisions that there is such a decision and vision, moreover, there is an active decree of president volodymyr zelenskyi and a decision of the national security and defense council, which concerns and what... to sanctions, which concern what to the kiev-pechersk lavra, because well, if you look on e, well, some narratives that appear from time to time in the public space of english. in the language, yes, well, there were accusations that the security service should not be involved, and there are all cases that are brought to

court, so this is also in some way pressure on religious figures, but there are specific articles, moreover, apply attention, that during the last exchange of civilians, when two priests of the greek catholic church, who were imprisoned in berdyansk for simply supporting the ukrainian position, returned. well, look, i'm not arguing with you, i left his stulchyn priest, who was convicted of high treason, went there , the next day, the next day, he met with kirill, hugged him and appeared in a photo on the website of the russian orthodox church. that this was nothing, there were no betrayals. there was not, there is no connection with russia, and the russian orthodox church, well, it is a religious organization, the russian orthodox church is not a religious organization, we even the paris resolution, we talked about it with you, in my opinion

, we talked on the air that in fact ukraine does not implement the decision of the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe, and yet, how did it happen, where ukraine did not complete, that in america there are persistent beliefs in certain circles that christians are persecuted in ukraine, diplomacy did not complete, people's deputies did not complete. the ministry of foreign affairs did not complete the work, the embassy did not complete the work, who did not complete the work, i cannot say that there is someone specifically , the name of the person who was supposed to do all the work, it is obvious that it should have been a certain, well, planned communication, but unfortunately, members of our committee to the delegations, to whom they were assigned questions on this matter were not invited, and now the members of our committee are again absent from this upcoming trip. but we hope that the colleague is already in the topic enough to explain, but the delegation that is going to the states, i will only remind that against this background

, vadym novinskyi, who is actively working in the united states and dispersing, was successfully released from ukraine including this narrative? let me remind you that vadim novinsky is under sanctions, he is, continues to be under sanctions, just, well, including for. such activities that are directed against statehood, national security, again, this delegation that goes to the united states, it still concentrates more, it seems to me , on weapons, botsk about the use of weapons there, do you admit that it is really, as stated your colleague maryana bezugla, that if this law is not properly communicated by ukraine to the united states, there is a risk of being left without support there or without part of the support, and that sanctions may be imposed on deputies, are there such big risks, you know, i just don't even want to comment, she doesn't belong to the profile committee, she doesn't

belong to our faction, i do, but she belongs to the defense and security, defense, defense and intelligence, security committee defense intelligence, well, as far as i know, the colleagues there expressed that she does not belong to him, no, she belongs to him, colleagues can express themselves about anything... anything, but she still does not understand him, but, but that true, because we have no, no solutions were voted in the parliament, except for two decrees, and still i will repeat the question, is it possible that the stakes have been raised to such an extent that the ukrainian deputies who vote for this draft law may face american sanctions? this, look, this is part of this lobbying campaign of amsterdam, yes, which works, actually for money.

the state department and so on, but it is not amsterdam that decides at all, right, and by the way, we received a certain request from the state department, where they asked precisely about religious freedoms, and we helped the ministry of foreign affairs prepare this answer, this is me i hope that this will be part of the... communication about what is actually happening, what russia is doing in the temporarily occupied territories, and what the bill is about and what the decision is about, because i repeat, we are not talking about religious individual rights, people can go to any church where they want to pray or confess, but we are talking about organizations, about legal entities, we, if a legal entity that does business with russia in our country... well, you can't do that, yes, but religious organizations, so evgenia, your colleague, mykyta poturaev, stated responsibly on our broadcast that the leadership of the servant

of the people faction does not want to vote for... the bill , he even named davyd arakhamia and andriy motovylovets by name, these are such super-powerful deputies that their voices sound louder than the voice of volodymyr zelenskyi. who wants to vote for this bill, what signals have you received from the president as of now? well, i didn't talk to the president about this, but i clearly heard his words in the addresses, and i know what the reaction was to for example, the appeal of volodymyr zelenskyi. to britain until easter, the very next day , the clergy of the russian orthodox church wrote that he should be led away, well, that's how volodymyr zelenskyi is treated in the russian orthodox church, and i'm not surprised, absolutely, they would like something to happen to him, obviously , but if we talk about the position of the leadership of our faction, then of course we are waiting for the return of david arachem in

the united states and we will conduct it. well, a working meeting to understand the next steps, but the decision that the verkhovna rada starts work on this draft law is meant in plenary mode, it remains in force, but it is obvious that an additional meeting of the committee may take place after the 15th, to clarify certain norms, thank you very much, yevgenia kravchuk, people's deputy, servant of the people, deputy head of the committee on humanitarian information...policy , we talked about the prospect of the law banning religious organizations connected to the kremlin, which is actually being adopted yevgenia, probably less than a year has passed since the first reading. thank you very much. well, in the united states, meanwhile, it's 44 to 42. harris leads trump in a new poll, which means kamala harris' approval ratings are rising 10 days ago, sociology showed

she and donald trump have different. equal chances of winning - 44% against 44x. the previous evening, us president joe biden addressed the nation from his office with a statement about the reasons for his decision to abandon the fight for a second presidential term. he said that being president was an honor for him, but a protection democracy is more important than office. at the same time, biden promised to help make nato stronger and prevent vladimir putin from taking over ukraine. well, here i would like to add that probably this... specific task will already be inherited by the next american president, political scientists and diplomats, with whom we have repeatedly spoken on this broadcast, say that the policy of, for example, donald trump is currently less predictable , with regard to ukraine, there are risks and even inclinations towards negotiations with russia, which may not be beneficial to kyiv, but with regard to kamala harris you have to hear more optimistic and clearer predictions that she will almost certainly adhere to biden's policy on ukraine, but listen to one such

comment. kamala harris supports ukraine and helping ukraine, she is wary of putin, russian plans and what russia is doing. she is not going to go to moscow on her first trip abroad to make a deal with putin on ukraine, unlike others who might. therefore, i think that in time we will see from her the politics that you may have already heard from biden. i think she 's going to have to face crises when ... biden's people know, and those crises will probably fall on her shoulders, that is, if there is a stalemate, and a war that goes on and on, with no end in sight, for her, for the west, and for ukraine will have to decide on the next steps. how long will it take, at what cost, is a peace agreement possible that will suit both parties. these are terrible decisions that will have to be made, and i think

they may come. to the fate of the next president of the united states, and if it is kamala harris, we will see how she will make these decisions, they will be her decisions. serhii kudelya, professor of political science at baylor university, joined our broadcast. congratulations. good day. i will ask you the same question as our guest answered, what can you expect from ukraine? kamala harris, well, in the event that she really becomes the president, and the logic of the election campaign, she definitely pushes kamela harris to take a position in contrast to donald trump, that is, if trump positions himself as a peacemaker who will force ukraine to sign any agreements with putin, then kamela harris will definitely emphasize that she is going to defend the interests of democracy in the world, remains committed to... and the nato

defense alliance.