yes, yes, and i'm afraid that it can, so it's a question of responsibility and efforts of ukrainians and poles to master these right-wingers of ours, let them be right-wing, please, but let it be like the british conservatives or the german christian democrats, let it will be like this

let there be leftists, but not leftists who say that everything must be put back into play, that a world revolution is needed, but nothing will come of it, not leftists who say to give money to everyone in need, let them be such leftists who recognize the right to compromise, recognize the right to gradual changes, but always in one direction, in the direction of agreements.

that is, i love poland very much, but this is true love, because it is without illusions. i realize how much still needs to be done in poland, and these eight years brutally showed it. there is still a lot of work on consciousness, how easy it is to instill and revive all kinds of nationalism in poland. it's a big problem, but not

the whole thing, behind it is the historical memory, it's the feeling that we're innocent by nature, that we've never done anything wrong to anyone, it's all that rests on i swear, you talk about poland in such a way that sometimes i transfer it to ukraine, that we are innocent, that our mykola gogol was only a good writer and person, but he was also imperial. and we understand that it was written after the uprising, which the russians simply destroyed, gogol was a kind of good angel of the orthodox world, praised the white tsar and so on, and all this was on corpses, but dead souls are a masterpiece, here it goes...

because otherwise, who will build it? rydzik or someone else? or such a ukrainian radish. yes, i'm afraid of that. i agree. it's cool, but how to build that narrative, because we understand that the political elites want to rule, and not engage in such small matters, where money and influence are not involved.

but we exist for that, you and i, to offer other options for looking at polish history, polish modernity and poland . but it is priceless. sixties, ukrainian writers, such as andruhovych, zhadan, historian hrytsak. we suddenly heard

a completely different voice of ukraine, and what a voice it is fascinates, interests and provokes.

it will be a problem, but it largely depends on us, who will take whom by force, force of thought, force of arguments and force of hard work, we will see, nothing is known,

for sure, but we have chances, we have received enormous opportunities from quite a lot, of course, this is tragic opportunities because the war created them. putin's brutal bandit attack on ukraine. but on the other hand, it showed the possibility and the polish reaction. i must say that i was impressed by the first spontaneous reaction of polish society for refugees from ukraine, which i did not expect so much. this creates some hope in me that it is possible otherwise.

in any case, putin does not give us another chance, except for our central european integration. exactly. but how far will putin go, that is, he said openly. we have been talking about this for almost half an hour, but

they have always been afraid of it, they were afraid of it in the 17th century, they were afraid of it in the 19th century, they were afraid of it in the 20s, i do not agree with this, because they were not afraid of it so much and even rather took it lightly, they essentially believed that there is no ukraine, there is malosiya,

it will happen, i agree, but the path to heaven is not strewn with trojan petals. there are also thorns, i will walk through the thorns, we must win in this, we must leave this as a legacy to our children and our grandchildren, this will be our great success of our time, this is a polish-ukrainian union, gedroyc worked on this, on this yakce kuron worked a lot, these were his obsessions.

i remember him when i came to kyiv in 1989 for the movement's congress. everything was said very firmly that polish solidarity is on your side. will be heard one or another advice for those who decide and put their signatures on this or that piece of paper? even if it is not fully heard, it is our duty to repeat ours. we

were led by fair considerations, once again, again and again, my beloved writer saveriy prushinsky wrote: the more powerful an actor or a publicist, a writer, the more different he is from an actor or a publicist, the more the actor is enlightened, then that will be the end of him, and the political publicist the end will come, if it is never mastered, we must repeat ourselves once, and a second time, and a third time, and the fourth, and the fifth, again and again. we must repeat, because this is an indicator of our professionalism and our human decency. if we do not do this, we will betray our profession.

there is no chance for an independent poland without a free and independent ukraine. amen, mr. editor. amen. and i want to remind our tv viewers that the legendary adam michnik was currently working on the air of the tv channel. polish journalist, founder of the no less legendary electoral newspaper, polish dissident. today in the verdict program with serhiy rudenko, a carefully planned action, the suspect in

the murder of iryna farion could prepare assassination attempts on other ukrainian politicians, or a trailer'. russian special services before the brazen shooting of a public figure in lviv. chinese voyage of dmytro kuleba. beijing assures kyiv of supporting sovereignty and territorial integrity, but continues to help russia in its war of aggression. results of the visit of the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine. very good conversation. donald trump spoke with volodymyr zelenskyi about... the war with the country with the military machine that defeated hitler and napoleon. how trump's peace plan, voiced by boris johnson, threatens ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is

serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. in the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world and. about our victory, well, today we have a very big informational evening, and it will be divided into two parts: in the first part of our program, oleksiy goncharenko and volodymyr ogrysko will be present, in the second part, which will start in exactly an hour, there will be my colleagues, journalists, yanina sokolova and andrii yanitskyi. let's talk about everything that happened during the last week, both in foreign and domestic politics, let's touch on kuleba's visit to... china, let's talk about how the ministry of internal affairs reported on the detention of the alleged murderer of irina farion, in short, the pace is enough for thinking and talking. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest you watch a video of how the soldiers of the 79th tauriy brigade of the russian armed forces in the kurakhiv

direction repelled another powerful enemy attack, this time the russians threw it. three tanks and 13 bmps to storm ukrainian positions, let's see what they did. friends, throughout the broadcast we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about whether you think the third world war is inevitable. why are we actually asking about this, because the former commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, mr. zaluzhny,

general zaluzhny, said this while in london this week, and that is why we are interested in what you think about this, whether you consider the third world war inevitable for this , give taftology to the world, so yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes, or no, please leave your own opinion in the comments below this video, if you are watching on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote on the numbers, if you think the third world war is inevitable, 0.800-211-381, no, 0800- 211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. and we have our first guest on the phone, this is oleksiy honcharenko, people's deputy of ukraine, president of the committee of the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe on migration and migration mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. i congratulate you. first of all, mr. oleksiy, let's start with a high-profile murder, with a terrorist act,

which was committed exactly a week ago, on july 19, in the center of lviv, iryna farion was killed, today the halytsky district court of lviv chose a preventive measure for the person detained on suspicion of farion's murder, arrest . for 60 days without the right to bail, the day before, an 18-year-old youth was informed of suspicion under the article of intentional murder, which provides from seven to 15 years imprisonment. law enforcement officers are investigating the connections of the suspect in the murder of eksnardepka with russian neo-nazi movements and the possible involvement of russian special services in the crime, and this was announced today at a briefing by the first deputy head of the service. security of ukraine serhiy andrushchenko at the morning briefing, let's listen to what he said: regarding the involvement of the specified person , a complex of measures is being carried out, and we are studying

his connections on the territory of ukraine and abroad, and one of the versions is the involvement of the special services of the aggressor country in the organization of the specified crime, together with the use of a beard, we look at different situations and different crimes that were committed. on the territory of ukraine and the involvement of the specified person is possible. mr. oleksiy, the murder of iryna farion is one of the murders, numerous murders that occurred in ukrainian politics, of ukrainian politicians, but if the perpetrators were still more or less somehow understood, and then not completely, for example, as in the murder of journalist pavlo sheremet , that is, there were no cases and... no conclusions and no verdicts by the customers do you think, in the case of iryna faron, will we find out who ordered this murder? i really hope for this, i really want it to become

known, and for us to find out, and for the customers to be convicted and punished, because if it was really organized by the russian federation and the special services, for us to at least become aware of it, but we will see, of course i , like everyone else, i am following this court and this situation, of course, only the court will determine whether it is really farion injection or not, you and i remember the story of the detention so the named suspects at that time was loud, remember, the briefing and the president and the minister of the interior, who is the prosecutor general, it seems, when the murder, but... the case fell apart and it looks like it was accused completely innocent people, at that time , kuzmenko, antonenka and dugar,

antonenka, dugar, and all that fell apart, but the people there spent a lot of time in prisons, their lives were largely ruined, and apparently they have nothing to do with it, so i am very careful about i put all this. let's see what the result will be is this young man real, and if he is, what was his motive, but it is very important to find out, because it is obvious that this is a serious threat, and such crimes, they also shake the country, well , first of all, crime, any crime is not a crime, but political murder and political violence can have completely different consequences for the entire country, so of course i really want all this to be investigated, which were put forward. and mr. oleksiy, obviously we need to talk not only about ascertaining the facts of how a person is killed in the center of lviv,

but also about how ours work. special services to prevent this from happening, meaning the security service of ukraine and the ministry of internal affairs, because we, we see only the post ee, well, the post-observation of what happened, but we, we do not hear answers, and why at all did this happen in the middle of the city of lviv? well, you are right, although for my part, i want, well, i have my own experience, the fact is that russia twice ordered my murder, once abduction, there was torture, and... and all these crimes were warned by the service security of ukraine, and that this is russia, i can say, because, well , the last thing, they wanted to kidnap me there, burn out my eyes, all this, so the customer was the deputy at that time, the head of the faction of the opposition bloc, well, that is, everything is clear, but then after he was detained, russia exchanged him for ukrainian prisoners of war, thus confirming who was actually behind it, that

is why i am talking to you now. in principle, this is evidence of the professionalism of the ukrainian security service, and i want to thank the employees of the security service of ukraine who my life has already been saved at least twice, that's why, but of course, unfortunately, there is no special service in the world that could prevent all crimes, what can we say when we saw with you recently an attempt on a candidate for the presidency of the united states and a former president of the united states , where there is just some... miracle, he remained alive, then it is obvious that there is no such special service that can warn of everything, the ukrainian special services are developing and, in principle , warned about a lot of things, unfortunately, in the situation with iryna farion, they did not were able to do in your opinion, the russians will continue to bet on the split of ukrainian society, the destabilization of ukrainian society, the demoralization of ukrainian society, well , in the end, this murder can

be classified as terrorist. act, because it is an act that aims not only to, let's say, destroy a person, but also to sow fear and despair in ukrainian society, it is quite possible, although again, we do not yet know whether it was really ordered by the russians special services, of course, that the russian special services are capable of everything and that i have no doubts about their ability, but is this specifically, the crime happened precisely because of them, and they disorganized it, i... i'm not sure about that, i don't really understand the motive right now, why they should have done it, and therefore i don't know, i'm not ready to say yet, but that , that russia will do everything to split ukrainian society, to sow fear, despair, this is exactly what terrorism is, terror is fear, well, that is to sow fear, that is the definition of terror, of course russia sows this terror every day in ukraine, with shahedes, rockets, but also murders, i want... y

i also want to ask you, as the president of the pare committee on migration and refugees, because this is actually the topic of ukrainians who are abroad and who fled to europe, and in particular, the minister of foreign affairs of poland, radyslav sikorsky , in an interview with rmf-24 radio, said about the fact that in europe it is possible to create such conditions of stay for ukrainian men that will force them to return to ukraine. and stand up for her . let's listen to what sikorsky said. this is a discussion that we are having in the european union, because if we were to introduce national solution, then these people would move to those countries where they can avoid military service. it is possible to create such conditions for the stay of ukrainians in the eu, which will stimulate them to fulfill their duty to protect the homeland. i understand, mr. oleksiy.

so far, poland is talking about it, germany categorically, so far against it, which other countries are considering such an option? look, we periodically hear such statements from various politicians in various countries, but frankly, as a person who understands the system, well, i am the first, legally they cannot express ukrainians, this is simply impossible, and therefore it is just empty talk and empty words. speaking of conditions, creating the conditions for them to do it voluntarily is another story, but what are the conditions, that is, roughly speaking, taking away any aid, yes, that is certainly something they can do, but is it will really lead to the fact that these people will go to ukraine, well, it's far, it's far from a fact, and we don't know the answer to this question, so i

wouldn't really count on it, if someone in ukraine is counting like that.