poses a threat to the national security of ukraine, this is required by the convention on the protection of human rights, article 9/11, this is required by the constitution of ukraine, article 35-36, where it is directly stated, there is an explanation of the constitutional court, which directly obliges the ukrainian government, the ukrainian authorities, each of us, to protect national security from the interference of hostile organizations, there will be no forced closure, these are judicial procedures, these are scientific examinations, these are collegial. however, whatever the problem was, as soon as the parliament decided not to consider the issue church, his work stopped. people's deputies of the european solidarity faction, the voice of the trust and future group. blocked

the rostrum, except for the military bills that are directly related to the state's defense capability, our political force, and we called to join our initiative, other political forces will not be allowed to vote, after the conciliation council with the leaders of the factions, the head of the verkhovna rada , ruslan stepanchuk, announced a pause in the meeting , on the sidelines they say that such a break... probably until the end of august, and if the document they will not bring it into the hall, the podium will continue to be blocked, and even if the case starts to move, the process will still be slow, there are 1,200 edits, at least, which will be put for confirmation by the representatives of the former opzhz, now actually the remnants of this structure, and that is why it is so long process, the head of the verkhovna rada later announced that the parliament...

will not rest, but will work in committees, in particular, on the draft law banning the uocp. the latter will be put to the vote of the parliament after collecting 240 votes in its support. and at the same time, for according to the data of the last april survey of the kyiv city institute of sociology, ukrainians are more unanimous on the issue of the moscow patriarchate. 63% of reviewers are in favor of its complete ban. kateryna galko, yulia... beska, andriy verstyuk, espresso tv channel. saturday political club, live ether, and today we traditionally talk about all the most important topics that concern ukrainians and that concern our country. both internal issues and external

issues, we will burn all this, and in our studio traditionally vitaly portnikov, congratulations, good evening, dear viewers, and for two hours, yes, already according to our tradition, according to our tradition, for two hours we will talk about everything with vitaly portnikov, and we will touch on the case of farion's murder, and of course the security block. we will also have an international issue, the one that concerns possible negotiations, we will talk unambiguously about the issue of the united states of america, and about the latest events regarding ukraine in poland, all this will be, but now, well, let's start, mr. vitaly, the first and probably the most resonant topic that we will talk about today today we will talk, of course...

the issue of the murder of iryna farion, last week we analyzed these issues with mr. vitaliy, we already spoke, and mr. vitaliy gave his expert assessment, in general, of this murder, yes, well, it happened yesterday, a preliminary trial was held on the choice of a preventive measure, for a probable suspect or a probable murderer, this is already a question of dos. investigation, right? in general, this is how you assess the events that are developing around this high-profile murder, this is the last week, because they are said to continue with upside down, to turn ukrainian society upside down, to resonate in it, and of course, this will have, including far-reaching consequences for our country. well, in any case, i think that here ... the investigation

will really have to prove that the person who is accused of murdering irina farion really committed this murder, the first thing, the second thing is to understand whether ... this person was alone , or she acted in common, in some community with some people who somehow or other manipulated, perhaps, the consciousness of this person, because you know when they say that there was a whole the list of people whom this young man was going to kill is called the name of maksym bozhanskyi, a people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people faction, then taking into account all these, let's say, boxes. from the correspondence of this young man vyacheslav zinchenko with various representatives of ultra-right or neo-nazi groups of such an anti-semitic nature, frankly speaking, and in

this situation, it becomes absolutely logical why such a person would want to kill buzhansky, a russian-speaker and a jew by origin, well, it all fits here. into this jewish conspiracy theory, but why then i apologize to kill farion, an ethnic ukrainian woman, speaking ukrainian, that is, explaining it by the fact that she divided people, by the fact that she spoke very zealously about the importance of the ukrainian language, and then what separated buzhanskyi, he never spoke zealously about it, that is you prove that these two things are said to be compatible with the incompatible, so it is if it is compatible with the incompatible. then you should forget about this guy and his own views, yes, and think about the federal security service of the russian federation, and how it can to think that if you kill radical, some conditional radical politicians from

different camps, then you thus create chaos in society, you need to kill from one side. to quarrel, let's say, ukrainian speakers and russian speakers, let some say that iryna farion is an icon and defender of the ukrainian language, and others say that she is a person who insulted, insulted even the people of azov who defended her country, and after that, how will the whole this brawl, you need to kill some russian representative, they told the ukrainian, they said, well, listen, what what kind of person is this who didn't even love ukraine? did not protect the ukrainian language, but the russian language, they will say: that's all your speech, the person was a deputy and spoke from a patriotic position at least since 2022, but you cannot forgive her for being russian-speaking, and that's what i would say chaos , and then it is absolutely logical, because in

principle, in principle, the main thing that moscow wants to achieve now, in relation not only to ukraine, in general, i would say to the surrounding world, is chaos, that is what is needed... victory on presidential donald trump's election, not at all because putin is going to agree on something with trump, but because there are hopes, and they were, by the way, in 2016, as we know that trump's victory accelerates the processes of destabilization and chaos in the united states states, creates lines of division between supporters of democracy, supporters of republicans, creates inappropriate positions in enemy camps and thus gives russia greater freedom of action. that's why i really think, no, if we're not talking about this single case, don't take it as the death of rin farion, as an isolated case. i really believe that, in principle, we are now dealing with a war of a new quality. well, that is, military

actions during such a war are really of great importance, but we do not pay attention to them now either. the first interview of the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, to a foreign publication, however, it did not become a sensation, neither for ukrainian society, nor for the west, why, because in principle the general said clear, absolutely logical things, and about the goals of the ukrainian army, and about how the war must... develop and about how the western one is needed weapons and so on and so forth, and in fact this interview disappeared from the media not because it was wrong, but because it was right, right absolutely clear words, but behind these words there is always a question, how

the issue of ending the war is decided, apart from the armed forces, the function of the armed forces is clear, the armed forces keep the enemy on the contact line and try if the opportunity arises. our territory, and what is happening in the country itself? that is, this question is far-reaching, because it is a question years of war. that was during the long-term war. unfortunately, there is such a serious issue as the health of society itself, what is possible in the first 6-8 months of the war does not seem so important, uh, well, in the first 6-8 months of the war, society unites, as we have seen, incredible cohesion people, and so in all, in all countries where war begins, and by the way, it does not matter much whether the country in which people live defends a right or wrong cause, the main thing is this patriotic boom. do you remember how in the first months after the first world war, when it was said that this patriotism covered everyone, and even people

of pacifist views from some left camps, they still became determined patriots of their country, by the way, this led to serious problems right there in the left political camp, because the social democrats , who have always been supporters of peace, pacifists, suddenly became such serious patriots of their country, and relatively speaking, russian social democrats. came out with harsh criticism of the german and vice versa, and therefore, by the way, people like lenin appeared, they were not social democrats, they were representatives of left-wing radicals who said that we want the defeat of our country in this war, and their country, let ours also be defeated, because this is our only opportunity to come to power, the disorganization of society, and special services of enemy countries work precisely with radicals, because radicals become their tools for destabilizing the enemy, and now... they returned to the murder of farion, this vyacheslav zinchenko, this is exactly such a tool, if you will, of defragmentation

of the country and its destabilization, like volodymyr ulyanov, lenin on a smaller scale, mr. vitaly, really going back to the murder of iryna farion and actually vyacheslav zinchenko, whom you just mentioned, and why in ukrainian society, i ask you... investigation, we see just an insane number of posts, comments, i personally heard the same from people who i know, who i am, who talk about what listen, well, not everything is so clear, maybe it’s not him, who but some they just talk stupidly, we don't we trust the law enforcement agencies and that's all, because none of it is politically resonant. murders in ukraine during these years of ukrainian independence have not been solved, not a single one, and those murders that

were said to be solved, later turned out to be unsolved, well, i will give you examples of the murders of heorhiy gongadze and pavel sheremet, you know who killed heorhiy gongants, i i do not mean general pukach, who is in prison, who was, as it were, the direct perpetrator of this crime, who was nevertheless interested in obustigangaz, why it did it happen at all? who was interfering with gongadze, who was giving orders to the security forces, you understand, this is an amazing situation, there are people who were employees of the security forces, they should clearly say whose orders they were following, this is not some gang organization, this is the police, the security service , well, in principle, if you detain people, they tell you who gave them the order, but they did not say this, which means that there is no such force that would force them to reveal any information,

and the power structures of ukraine do not have the ability, even after so many years, how many years have already passed, to find out about what happened, the same with sheremet, do you remember how the current president of ukraine talked about the detention of people who were accused of murdering pavel shremet, and then there was the same distrust , and everyone said, listen, it's not these people, well, time has passed, these people have been released, as far as i understand, i don't know. in general, does anyone now accuse them of murdering sheremet, again, when these people were even detained, there was also such a question, and of course, what happened, and why did they decide to kill in the first place cherimet, unlike gongadz, he is a russian belarusian journalist, well , a person who has worked creatively in moscow almost all his life, so it would be interesting for a country that is at war with russia, relations in russia, whose path he crossed, if it is connected with... russia, there is no information, so when the next such murder happens, what

should people trust, they are already accustomed by inertia to believe that it is absolutely some staged things, a front person, even if not valid, we will not learn the truth about motives, and motives really no one can fully explain, as the deputy chief of the national police says, yes, no, he is a pro-ukrainian person, his father serves you, he is just, what are you pharaohs then, you know, this comment, he in general rather strange, he is strange, because in fact the head of the ministry of internal affairs comes out there, other people come out, they talk to the point. one thing and supposedly this detainee says or does not say anything in court, then the deputy head of the ministry of internal affairs comes out and says something that is essentially the opposite of what we saw earlier in the day, it is honestly unclear to me, whether it is some kind or it is some kind of miscommunication between them, and he expressed his opinion, whether it is and here already in the morning even more,

because it turns out that some contradict others, well, that's the problem, yes, yes... put yourself in the shoes of people who are bombarded with such a barrage of information on a high-profile topic, and they do not understand what happened, but again, i would not exaggerate the importance of this single murders, i would exaggerate the importance of the process, because we have important things before us the question of whether we will be able to keep the country in a normal state in the following years of the war is not a joke, you understand, because this war has been going on for as long as we can say 2.5 years in its... version, it will be like this already in 2.5 years in august, which means that we are entering a completely new stage, and relative to a democratic country, relative to, let's say, the soviet union, well, yes, because the soviet union could fight for 10 years, there was a power apparatus, and somehow

all that it wasn't like during the war, not like as before and after, it is true, but one way or another... it was absolutely obvious how to deal with society if it was shaking, right away they absolutely did not understand what to do, that is, if people will, will really lose the ground under their feet, if the social situation will worsen, if the authorities will not be able to answer some questions, if some such high-profile things will divide people, but simply with the murder of ferionts , nothing should be clearly said... it did not happen, why, in principle, did it not become the what was expected russians, because everyone clearly said, we condemn this murder, the issue is not her political views, not what she said, supporters of course said, she is a holy person, she said such important things, that's why she was killed, opponents said, we disagreed with what she said, but

killing a person is just barbarism and crimes, the russian narrative. and the people who came to farion's funeral, they expressed some agreement with some theses, others could disagree, but they were all united by this, i would say, protest against terror, and it means that after there a week is different, as you understand, this is this tragedy, it will be simply forgotten, because there will be a flow. other news, and it did not bring what the enemy was counting on, the destabilization of ukrainian society, that is , it was not possible to turn farion into such a victim, which was supposed to lead to such destabilization ,

it was not possible to provoke some destructive processes in society, so they will try something else to do, not necessarily, by the way, murder, various things that... should lead to such and such emotions moods, because in principle, two years of war marks the beginning of a period when people begin to get psychologically tired, and when you can, without having any successes at the front, replace these successes, let's say that you just gnaw like this, you know, these nuts from the shell , so that nothing remains. well, the army is standing, fighting. in the first months of the war, many people criticized the post-war novels of erich marius remarque, that these novels do not help us to win. but these were novels about exactly what happens after the war, this what is necessary, what must be realized,

you cannot replace reality with slogans, but if you do not have a motivated, strong... then no military victories help anything, the army returns to the country doomed to collapse, and the people themselves somehow they are looking for a place, or they leave this country, even the military, or they join some criminal gangs, it doesn't matter, chaos, so that 's what russia wants to achieve, but let's imagine that the russians have decided for themselves that they cannot occupy the whole territory of ukraine, but the territory that they cannot go to... must become for them a destroyed territory, a territory in which it will not be possible to live normally, a territory where people will be dogs with each other, because if they stop the war... even a truce is declared, part of the territory is controlled, and nothing good happens in this part of the territory, in this and that territory, which they could not conquer, becomes a model of success, joins

the european union there, ugh, why is this necessary, tell me please, they are will do everything to prevent this from happening, of course they will, and in principle they should prolong the war until the moment when they say to themselves, that's it, it's over with them, this is already a state that will never be real, this is just somalia , and now we can safely finish. war, and let them mess with each other there, let the west think how to get out of this situation, how to conduct negotiations with them about joining the european union so that they never join nato, so that they never get into it, that's how orban said today, a very strong country, it's unbelievable how they are fighting so much with the russian federation, but they will not be members of the european union and nato, we will never have enough money to take them - orban said that now yes, the question is... not how much such money do they need, i am interested in ukraine becoming a member of the european union, but it means that there is a plan that ukraine should be destroyed so much that there will not be enough western

money, so that there is at least some semblance of normal life in this territory, great, excellent approach, by the way, about the negotiations, but not with the european union, but about negotiations in general, from the johnson plan to the pompeo plan. we will talk about it, but we see that the voices about negotiations are getting louder and louder, kuleba is going to china, we see that prime minister modi, the prime minister of india is going to come to ukraine on august 23 supposedly, but less than if we return to the question of this pompeo plan, pompeo's plan, someone called it trump's plan, but in fact it is a plan. a proposal for trump, not a trump plan, that is, let's not confuse it like many do already confused, how do you evaluate this plan, there

mr. pompeo says that ukraine should be given a full-fledged lendlease for 500 billion us dollars, he is talking about, again , about the possibility of striking on the territory of russia, well , that is, let’s say a whole complex that indeed perhaps necessary for our country, but which ... it is doubtful that trump will use it. so, if we are talking about these plans, about votes for negotiations, about security and all these things, about the possibility of ending the war by the end of the year, do you believe in the implementation of at least some of these plans and these votes, because they are so diverse, so, so different that... that people are already completely confused and do not understand what we should expect by the end of the year, war by the end of the year. i don't want us

to operate with categories of faith at all, the category of faith is god's will, no one knows it, no one knows how god, even people who believe in him, imagine justice, god's idea of ​​justice may differ from human by 180°, and only when we live to certain events, we we understand what justice looks like when it is somehow changed. with faith, and we can work with you with facts, because only facts are a real possibility to check what will happen in the next years of the war. so, firstly, the russians do not seek any victories at all, and the minister of foreign affairs of the russian federation sergey lavrov, after a meeting with the minister of foreign affairs of the people's republic of china, wang yi, said that he does not pay attention to the words of zelenskyi and kuleba regarding negotiations with by russia russia is not going to... the peace summit, the second or the third or the fourth, and russia, i think, is ready for a truce, only if this truce leads to the fact that the ukrainian leadership will accept some russian

conditions, but for what russia needs this, not at all in order for these conditions to be approved, but for destabilization, by and large, again, all negotiations with russia, for it is an element of destabilization, that is why the russians needed the negotiations in istanbul, so that zelensky agreed to give up... from territory and that in kiev some kind of uprising has been alarmed, as they hope, or at that time hoped, and this would make it easier for them in military actions. do you remember how putin said: ukrainian military, take power into your own hands, we will come to an agreement with you, what was it for, in order to provoke a military coup, so that the west does not help some tyranny that will be in kyiv, so that the legitimate government was either expelled or shot, and again then putin could make it easier for himself. the possibility of occupying ukraine, because he said, listen, in ukraine in there is a colonel petrenko sitting in kyiv who heads the junta, and we have a legitimate president yanukovych, so you see what

a whole series of military... in ukraine has led to, that it is not known who is in power there, but we brought a legitimate legitimate president to kyiv the president, who will now announce extraordinary presidential elections, everything is fine, we are establishing democracy in ukraine, this is what these appeals were designed for, the same talks in istanbul, the same all these conversations, first recognize donetsk, luhansk, kherson and zaporizhzhia region russian territories, and then we'll start talking, remember, so that i don't make anything up, remember. on the screens of armenian television on the last day of the second karabakh war , the prime minister of armenia nikol pashinyan appears, telling his compatriots: we were forced to sign an agreement with the presidents of russia and azerbaijan, vladimir putin and ilham aliyev, which provides for the complete withdrawal of armenian troops from the territory of nagorno- karabakh, and so on and so on, remember? and then it started through half an hour in yelivan? mass promotions? well

, it is clear that they are successful. they didn't have big ones, but, well, they didn't have them, because there was no alternative, but the smallest ones, because none of the citizens in armenia wanted the azerbaijani army to enter yerevan, and we have a slightly different situation, as you understand, it could be in the first months of the war, and now i'm just saying that this is exactly what they would like to bring the situation to, to mass actions against the government that betrayed ukraine, so they do not consider negotiations but... they want to create such a scenario that would make it easier for them further actions this is one point. the second point, all these plans, whether johnson's or pompey's, is an attempt to draw attention to themselves. donald trump. because everyone is now trying to find their place next to him, hoping that he can become the president of the united states, which is absolutely not decided, it will be decided by the american people. we understand that with the appearance of kamela

hardys in the election campaign. everything is now not as easy for trump as it might have been, as it might have seemed before, when donald trump was in the pre-election struggle with joseph biden, he might have thought that the presidency was in his pocket, now even he doesn’t think so, well, there are some people, religious trumpists, who are sure that he will win, but the chances were 50 to 50, so they are, the next moment, no china, no india. cannot be any real mediators between ukraine and russia for one simple reason: they are interested in economic relations with the russian federation, it would be of no use to them to end this war if they refused to trade with russia oil, and in the case of china, not to send components for these russian military industrial plants, despite the fact that the president of ukraine says that the chinese president xi jinping promised that

china will not supply ... these weapons, he repeated this during the negotiations with dmytro kolebo ivany, we understand that in addition to weapons, there are also components for weapons, and this is supplied by china, and this is what causes such a harsh reaction of nato, and i absolutely did not understand why we behaved in this way. we are a country on the territory of which these weapons kill our citizens, is trying to pretend that the chinese are of no use here. mr. vitaly, why did kuleba go to china then, he went, he told about the fact that the negotiations were very successful. well, there are two, there are two ukrainian reasons and there is a chinese reason, a chinese reason, china needs to legitimize itself as a neutral mediator, ugh, nato says that china is helping russia, makes tough statements, the united states is justifying sanctions against chinese companies, and we there is nothing to do here, in general, we communicate with putin, and we communicate with kuliba, and so do we are neutral, and you are warmongers who still want to limit our

economic growth under this sauce. and of course, then we need kulibovych gondjo to show him to all western politicians, you see, he came, and you say that we are behind russia, and we are talking to the ukrainian minister, but you don't do that, you don't talk to the russian, because you want the war to continue and we want the war to end, okay, now our wishes, well , first of all, we cannot refuse the chinese offer if we are invited, because if we are told to come, let's talk about peace, and we say no. then we seem to be a country that does not want peace, although again, you can look at it differently, you can say: listen, as long as you have a strategic partnership with russia, as long as you supply it with equipment, we will not have a foot in china, well, the chinese severing diplomatic relations with those countries that establish diplomatic relations is the correct position of ukraine, it is a matter of choice, i would do so, but the ukrainian leadership does

not so, now repeat why, because we still have some strange hope.