base, well, they have, but it is clear that this base is different for each of the parties, and it is clear that the polish position on this issue is historical, it is very often not objective, why right now, and what is happening at all, i think that this is part of poland's internal policy, and we must clearly understand that the attitude to the history of our neighbors and our attitude, it is different, one way or another, the country that is a member of the european union will always be'. certain conditions of attitude towards the country's own historical policy which wants to join the european union, and because otherwise this country will simply remain outside the european union, by the way, i keep saying this, if you remember, even when this negotiated process began, i said that we will have to, we will have difficult conversations with our neighbors, there is no need for any illusions, now it all does not look very serious, simply because we are at war, no one from the european union will accept a country that is at war. our

task is to continue these negotiations, to close one chapter after another. what will happen after these negotiations will end, i do not guarantee you. the republic of north macedonia applied to join the european union in 2004. negotiations began in 2000 which? well , practically, not so long ago, on the 22nd of the 21st. because the neighbors of north macedonia, initially greece. with a constitutional name, and then bulgaria in connection with the north macedonian idea of ​​history, blocked this process, a macedonian journalist can make a speech in a television studio in skopje exactly like the one you gave now, it's just bulgaria nobody cares, well want to give your speech, you can gather and give a speech at least on this, at least on the highest point of your country, on gorver. everyone

gather and talk about what is wrong with your sejm, what about us, we voted, we told you how we see it, you don't see it that way, goodbye, we can't influence anything, if we want to of the european union, it means that what we have to do, the first thing is to understand that our neighbors may have different views on our history, on our world, especially those neighbors with whom we were in the same state, uh, our territories were part of pre-war... poland, and before that they were part of austria-hungary together with other territories, together with those territories that are now part of the republic of poland, or were part of pre-war poland, and there are painful pages in polish -ukrainian peoples have different ideas about these pages, if you think that you will be able to impose a ukrainian idea of ​​history on the poles, you are very mistaken, you will not be able to, as, by the way, the poles are always offended by the jews and israel, that they are not can impose on them. poland can

to impose their historical vision on us, that is, this is also quite a difficult issue, because what if at some point the polish parliament says that it will not ratify the agreement on ukraine's accession to the european union without resolving historical issues, then. .. or the hungarian parliament until the issue of the education of hungarians in transcarpathia is resolved, then ukraine will not join the european union, you will not do anything to them, they are in the european union, we are not, well, they do not vote, we cannot force them to vote, how the issue was resolved with negotiations with macedonia with the european union? was there mediation by other eu countries, germany and france? france first of all,

it seems to me, who met with the bulgarian delegation from north macedonia, discussed what the complex of actions would be, uh, up to the change of the constitution of north macedonia, north macedonia must change its constitution in order to enter the european union, once again not only in name , ugh, and let's say, introduce, ugh, the point that bulgarians are, ugh, the same, so to speak. factor of north macedonian history, ethnic a minority, as it is called, naro, one of the peoples of north macedonia, like macedonians and albanians. well, there in north macedonia they developed a whole series of ideas, let's remember not only the bulgarians, but all national minorities, so that it doesn't look so offensive, and let's remember the bulgarian too. but now the macedonian voter voted for those parties that were in the opposition, and for the president, who was in the opposition and opposed it, because macedonians. voters don't like it, and they

're not going to change the constitution, not yet won't change, won't join the european union, ugh, or will be forced to sit down again at the negotiation table with the bulgarians, negotiate something with them, a mediator. there in france, well , it could be like that for another 10 years, you don't think it's possible, this is also a consequence of the upcoming presidential election campaign in poland. i think that it is not only about the election campaign, but in bulgaria no one deals with it during the election campaign, in bulgaria, as you know, elections are held every three months, and no one even mentions it, there all political forces, as in poland, of one position, there is no party there that will say: listen, let's... let's not bother them, there are no such parties, and in poland, as you can see, there are no such parties, no, well in poland has political forces that oppose ukraine in principle, by the way, according to the latest polls, the confederation already has 13%, well, you see that there is complete unity of all political parties in poland, so what will it

look like after our negotiations are over, ugh, most likely we will have to look for intermediaries again, according to the one who will be in control. in poland at this moment there will be such liberal forces, so we will look for mediators in germany, there will be some conservative forces, so somewhere else we will look for mediators in france or there in those countries that will not scare poland, we will sit down to hold some kind of joint congress there , well, we will decide what the joint policy of historical memory should look like, well, all this will be decided, there may be decisions that will not be liked by a part of ukrainian society or. there may be solutions that are not a part of ukrainian society will like it, parliamentary elections will be held, ukrainian voters will vote for the forces that we patriots will say, we are not going to make concessions to the poles, and ukraine will simply wait there for eight extra years to join the european union, is that possible ,

well maybe we'll just sit in the same room with north macedonia, well but that 's again if the war ends, right, but here we have another problem, north macedonia can sit in this room, in this waiting room . she can also fall into the russian zone of influence, by the way, ugh, but it still has no borders there, it will not be occupied, it will not be occupied, there is serbia nearby, but everything is like that there, not so dangerous, but we can , you know, in these eight-eight years to return to the soviet harbor, that's what the danger is, and i don't understand why the poles don't understand it, why for them, that is, the possibility of losing ukraine, so that ukraine once again becomes part of the russian sphere of influence. it is real even after the war, both after it has been lost and after it has been won, yes. ukraine, the existence of the ukrainian state is not a constant, it can disappear as a result of war, and the existence of ukraine outside the russian sphere of influence is not a constant, ukraine can return to russian influence, so that

people do not think now that we will never be with the russians, it is not yes. the public mood may change in despair, well, if no one takes us there and doesn't want to see us, but... here they tell us, listen, we made a mistake, you are our brothers, we didn't want to, we will now help you restore everything, and now you understand that it was not necessary to deal with these events, they incited you, and we can do everything in russian, well, everything, but listen, and even now i think that it is possible to find people who are ready, and maybe they , maybe not such a large number, but at least it seems to me that even compared to 22 years, now their number, just the number that will not want to go to poland, hahaha, i am that number. which will vote for patriotic parties that will not change the constitution, the conditional constitution, and that will not change the historical policy, she will as a result will go to poland and curse the poles there, there will remain those who will be ready to go to russia, this may be an anecdote, so

again, it is necessary, i believe, it is necessary to work with the polish political elite not from the point of view of you know, we're right here, and you're wrong, and from the point of view of... that if you raise these european historical issues, you may simply not understand their implications, that any ultra-patriotic force you want to fail bring to power by its actions here, and which will block the european one the integration of ukraine, as a result will contribute to the return of ukraine to the russian sphere of influence, you do not need it, because from the ou and upa - this is the history of ukraine, but russian influence on ukraine is the future of ukraine. maybe if you behave so idiotically , i’m talking about this, i’m not even going to discuss any historical topics, you understand, because you can discuss this history forever, every nation, if we talk about the 20th century, has its own national

a story that other people don't like, why? because in general the story of the first half the 20th century is a history of terror. i'm sorry, who was i, you know, like in this popular novel by ilf and petrov , the popular soviet era, who was panikovsky, there is still a monument to panikovsky, we have it in... on this road, is it not, well, i don't know, well , was paniakovsky decommunized, who was paniakovsky in kyiv, was he blind, who was marshal pilsutsky, you can find out before he became a prisoner, whether he engaged in political terror, an uncomfortable question, well, somehow we do not respect him for that, so when you speak , did you practice? stepan bandera terrorist activity, i saw a book in polish, it was called stepan bandera the terrorist, well, of course

he was involved, who doubts, but this is part of the activities of the national liberation movement, he national liberation movement very often in the absence of political prospects engages in terrorist activities, which those against whom this is happening are not very liked, the russians, the austrians, or the germans there did not like the activities of pilsudski, and the poles did not like the activities of bandera, i... i remember, i don't remember which one, a long time ago, during one of my first trips to israel, i was in the gesher theater and i was next door to an elderly man who was once the prime minister -israeli minister yitzhak shamir, is yitzhak shamir a terrorist at all, don't even doubt, did i feel like oh, i'm sitting here, he's a terrorist, no, i was very proud. that i was put here by yitzchak shamir, a legend of the zionist movement of the jewish people, this man actually

blew up the hotel, by david, this is a hotel, not a barracks, what, but it was a national movement, which was related to the need to uproot the british from mandated palestine and give the jews the opportunity to create their own state, that's how they saw it, now the question is if i were british. "i would not be happy, the british were looking for yitzchak kashmir, even when he was the prime minister of israel, they did not remove this warrant. nelson mandela, who was he, i wonder, was he a terrorist, the leader of a militant wing, an organization african national congress the african national congress is still possible to some extent be called a political party at that time, but it was a militant wing, a militant one. well, of course, he is a terrorist who..." was preparing some terrorist acts, but what was the other method of fighting apartheid, and of course the people

who ruled south africa at the time, a large part of the population, especially white people, believed that he was a terrorist, who has to live in prison for the rest of his life, and i can name a large number of such examples, this is otjalan, who is in prison now on one of the islands in the aegean sea, in the aegean it seems whether in marmurovo, marmurovo, he is absolutely for the turks. a terrorist, he is a terrorist, and for the kurds a hero, well, that is, how to agree on this, it is impossible to agree on this, we can say that we do not accept terror in our modern world, but at the same time we cannot erase it from history, you understand, and to... or this story, just throw out the pages that we don't like.

of course, the poles would like pre-war poland to look different than it did, so that there were no problems with national minorities in pre-war poland, well, they were. in 1939 year, it was clear that the state actually did not exist, that national minorities did not perceive this state as their own. the so-called rebellion among the ukrainian population is real, and because poland did not perceive this population as loyal, as equal to the population of polish ethnic origin and the cathoric faith, well, these are all the facts, all these percentage norms, the whole this is mistrust, of course there were people who believed that this could be fought with a political method, by the way... this is also a beautiful story, i was friends with ibrahim rugova, the first th president of the self-proclaimed kosovo, well

, he believed that it was necessary to fight for the freedom of albanians politically and by methods, but the serbs continued, continued the repression, a generation of young people appeared, it's like the ukrainians in poland, who believed that it was not working, they created a liberation army, kosovo is now one of the leaders of this army, and then the president of kosovo hashim thaci is in the hague, in the international court, well , but the question arises, if for... in general , the serbs did not organize a policy of segregation in kosovo for the population, which was 90% the population of the territories, it is approximately like eastern galicia, i apologize for, are you sure the serbs can convince? that hashim taicha is a terrorist, i am not sure, by the way, ukrainians, well , ukrainians respect andriy sheptytskyi, as kosovars respect ibrahim rugova, ibrahim rugova was never in his life a supporter of any forceful actions, but that does not mean that we should close eyes on the fact that bandera,

shukhevych, melnyk, other leaders of the ukrainian national movement, activists who created the organization of ukrainian nationalists, they... believed that there was nothing political won't do with this discriminatory policy, who is to blame first? one who responds to discriminatory policies or one who implements them? well, this is also a good question that could be asked to all of us, to our polish friends, because the revision is needed not only for the activities of the oun and the upa, but also for the two decades when ukrainians, poles, and jews lived in this one state, which did it happen at all? were there no divisions in it? well, this is a good question, but this is a question for the future, by the way, i told you the framework of our negotiations with poland, when will we have to solve the issue of historical memory before joining the european union? well, we have what we have, unfortunately, a difficult situation, and unfortunately, it is rising again at a time when

ukraine is fighting for its independence. a few minutes, a short pause, and we will still have 10 minutes on one interesting topic, which we will discuss with vitaly portnikov. don't switch, see you very soon. there are discounts that represent the only discounts on estazifin, 20% in pharmacies for travelers and savings. longit cream relieves pain, reduces swelling and improves joint mobility. with doolgit cream. you can also walk. dolgit is the only yellow cream. from pain in the joints, there are discounts , they represent the only discounts on eurofast softcaps 10% in travel pharmacies, you can save national money on megogo - there are too many channels, well, too many channels, and also movies, cartoons, series and favorite shows, turn on meggogo on different devices, without overhead wires and antennas, and all this from 49 hryvnias per month, there are discounts, the only discounts

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nato member countries have huge arsenals, and russia is already on the verge of exhausting its resources. topics that cause... resonance in our society, this is the question of trump's victory, what it is, an analysis of the processes that change the country and each of us, what else the russians can do, whether they are able to use, say, the resources of the allied of the lukashenka army, vitaly portnikov and the guests of the project, have read the entire presentation, accept my speech, i thank you, this it was difficult, but i was just curious, but it was absolutely not, they help to understand the present and predict the future. offered the united states to conclude a bilateral security agreement with us. a project for those who care and think. political club. every sunday at 20:00 at espresso. the verkhovna rada regularly adopts new laws. but how do these

changes affect our lives. we have analyzed the new resolutions to inform you about the latest ones. changes in ukrainian legislation, how legislative norms change our life, to what end get ready, these and other questions that concern ukrainians will be answered by the leading lawyers of the aktum bar association. watch every tuesday at 7:55 in the legal expertise program on the espresso tv channel. saturday political club, we are back, we still have 10 minutes to discuss another important topic. the 2024 olympics started, it would seem pompous, it would seem that there were all kinds of activities without... security, yes, carried out by france, but a large-scale failure on the railway took place, on the day of the start of the olympics,

the french law enforcement officers talk about sabotage and sabotage, a cook was also detained in france, guess where, from the russian federation, yes, for preparing a terrorist attack, well, putin's cook, as an adventurer. and by the way, one more piece of information, israel announced that there is a possible terrorist attack on the olympic games in france by someone, from iran. here are three such news, three events that permeate the olympic games now. mr. vitaly, is there really a big threat of sabotage during the olympic, summer olympic games 2024. is it really russia, iran, maybe more some states can really create a situation of threat not only for the french, but also for

a huge number of citizens, citizens of different countries of the world, who came to the olympic games. when the 1980 olympic games were held in moscow, soviet animators made a series of cartoons about wrestling. i don't know if he's standing there or not, but in some places he's standing, with the grandmother yaga, ugh, and this one, so the grandmother, all the time when this bear was telling how wonderful everything would be, she was saying all the time : baba yaga against, it was a referendum of everyone and everyone series, she resorted to various diversions of terrorist attacks all the time, and it was very funny then to prevent this olympics and to prevent the bear from getting there, so ... it turned out to be a prophetic cartoon, because now baba yaga, which means in the kremlin , she is against it, she was not allowed there according to this scenario, she wanted to be a mascot, but she

was not allowed there, and she shouted: "well, nothing, well, i'll show you now, she's all dressed up in botox, well, now it's just necessary to show this cartoon at the 2024 olympics to employees of special services, which is nothing new happens, baba yaga is always". means she is alive, it is not, it is not an element of russian folklore, it is an officer of the kgb, and now of the federal security service, the russian federation, and the main idea is to make everyone feel bad, there was no longer an idea that baba yaga wanted everyone to be well, she wanted there to be a lot, and this bear, i understand, make him some kind of game roast, something like that, and here, of course, they need chaos, i'm absolutely sure , that they have already sent some terrorist, subversive groups to france, to europe, and that these groups will try to do something, now it's just a matter of who whom, the special services of the western

countries, russia and iran, or russia and iran, the special services of the western countries, because of course they need to have some terrorist attacks, putin wants to take revenge, macron, baba yaga, in short against, and if something happens there, yes, of course i wanted to do something there against the israeli national team against. ukrainian, if we are not here, then you should not be here either, and this is not a joke, we remember that such stories were on the olympics, like the death of, say, the israeli national team at the munich olympics, which was kidnapped and killed, that is, i believe that all this is really a very serious threat, i will honestly say that i am generally against the olympics during wars, but emmanuel macron wanted a truce olympic well, in principle, the truce is olympic, it was announced in ancient greece, in our modern world, when there are wars, the olympics are not held,

they decided to pretend that this is not such a war, a local, some kind of war, but this is not true, but in why the problem when there was the first and second world wars, there were no olympics, they were held in the post-war period, in the pre-war period, as you remember, there was even an olympics in berlin. and adolf hitler opened the olympics in berlin, well, but it didn’t help anything, and the olympics could be held and the olympic games could be held somewhere in latin america, let’s say, do them there, or in north america, but everyone understood that when war, then this is not the time for holidays, the sports factories, now decided that it is time, but if you are ready to hold the olympics during the war, you have to cook. to some excesses, because the attitude to such events in warring countries is different: you are celebrating here, and we are fighting here, well, nothing, we

will show you. and even more so when you clearly say whose side you are on, you let the ukrainian national team into the olympics and you don't let russian athletes into the olympics not because they use doping, remember that they didn't get into the olympics before, but this is a sports story, and now a political one, war, you can't be there, if you support war, then war is a factor in the olympics, it is war that determines who there are participants, who are not, this is also an interesting story, think about it. it's one thing when you use doping and they tell you it's unsportsmanlike behavior, we don't want to see your team, and it's another thing when you do everything honestly and they tell you, well, sorry, your country organized aggression, it has no place in the olympics , but we will spend without you, well, then expect some actions from this country, the same applies to the national team of israel, let's say, well, you see, taking into account all these

anti-israeli nations. the same iranians, not only iranians, may think that they have somehow to take revenge, because france, as the host of the olympics, invites israel, but does not invite russia, which means that there are double standards, everything that can be heard, so this is all completely understandable, and we will just watch and hope that it will be exactly sports that we don't have to talk about some terrorist act at the olympics next week, you liked it. at the opening, i mean, well, everyone, as they say, let's bloom, no, i mean, it's also to some extent an event that celine zrion was able to return to the stage after four years of fighting the disease, i think, is an important sign just in favor of the fact that all bad events end well, uh, if a person has courage, why did i even mention silendzion now, because that's what the organizers of the olympiad... decided to end

the opening ceremony with her participation in silendion, it is to some extent a sign that courage continues to be revered as a great virtue in our society. and by the way, if it's so short, we have very little time left, but the european championship was taking place football, euro 2024. for some reason, russia did not emphasize here, by the way. so much attention on this, that is, after all, well, the olympics is something completely different, the truth is, it is a general, global demonstration of opportunities, that is, for them it is something more important than the football championship, which country was actually second or third in the 70s and 80s in olympic russia, the german democratic republic, which no one even

considered a real state. yes, the gdr focused on the development of sports and achieved its goal, no one understood what germany was the democratic republic, why does it exist as a second germany, but everyone was proud of east german athletes, who simply did not receive nearly as many medals at the olympics as the soviet union and the united states, and then the people's republic of china took this place, they also began to invest in sports , in olympic sports, because when you become the winner of the olympics - this is evidence of progress. and russia is not even given the opportunity to show what a progressive bastard she is, a baba yaga, against this, she will take revenge, let's hope, all the same, that they will not succeed in anything, that they will not only not be able to prove their sports achievements, but also will not be able to prove the qualities of their saboteurs and other employees of the special services, who have been walking around the west with their newbies for a long time, that is it's not news either, let's hope for a peaceful week, that...

well, a peaceful week relative to the fact that there is a war going on in our country, i mean next week, and we wish you all a peaceful sky and of course keep , hold on unite and be with ukraine. vitaly portnikov, andriy smoliy, the saturday political club program will meet with you next week. goodbye! the end of the war in ukraine, which country's proposals will win the race for peace plans, the suspect's farewell letter and denial of involvement in the murder, whether the faru case is moving forward.