weekly summary information and analytical program, a clear understanding of the key events of the past week, analysis of the causes and consequences of these events from experts, forecasts of the development of the situation for the current week, the opportunity to ask your own questions and join the discussion, spend the final monday evening with us and confidently step into the new week, the new week project with khrystyna yatskiv and andriy smoly, every monday at 8:00 p.m. on espresso. and now the legendary polish dissident, one of the creators of the new democratic, will work on the espresso channel of poland, the founder of the no less legendary election newspaper adam michnik. greetings, mr. editors at espresso studio. good afternoon, thank you for these kind words, although exaggerated. of course, every word is some kind of exaggeration, but the most important thing is that we...

and many, many people, the most important thing is that this thing is strong and long-lasting, how do you assess now these polish-ukrainian relations, which we dreamed of and a lot has been done? maybe not to the end, but the most important thing is that the polish-ukrainian security agreement was finally signed. we understand that this may have taken too long. this is all evident in the shadow of war, now at

this moment is the time to define the world we live in, the world we live in, it is a world in a state of confrontation. part of the cold war, part of the hot war, as it is here in ukraine, among all that is the anti-democratic totalitarian project of ideology. nationalism, which is understood not as respect for national identity, but as domination over others, is great russian nationalism, but actually we also see and in every european country, just look at hungary, the whole of central and eastern europe.

we are talking about institutions, we are talking about the destruction of democratic freedoms, we are talking about the destruction of justice, if we look at this war in that context, this war is actually a war between a totalitarian project and a democratic project, and obviously polish-ukrainian relations for this sphere are absolutely key ukrainian ones. who does not believe in those relationships, or

simply does not want them, so it will be, on the one hand, the construction of what is a common value and community of interests, what to say? i had the idea that poland and ukraine could create something similar.

yes, but here is the issue that happened six months ago, we understand that there was an election campaign in poland, but it is about the cooperation between... we may not like the bagpipe, i don't know, we may not like the dog, but at one time, when the great war began, the polish political elites ruling at that time showed their readiness to support and behaved extremely dignified in terms of supporting ukraine. of course, maybe they don't could have behaved differently, but in any case , they did it well, and we in ukraine appreciate it very much, but then something happened, right? and there was a very strange pause, some kind of silence on both sides, some people at the border, so-called

activists, or pseudo-activists, blocking the border and so on. and now we see a thaw in those political polish-ukrainian relations. the last meeting of the president... ja się zdzagjam z tym, co pan mózi, że polityka, i agree with what you say that politics from the polish side at the moment of the outbreak of a full-scale war was very kind, powiedzmy, w gazecie, w korjej ja

pracuję, myśmy tej polityki nie atakowali, mimo żebysmy and in the newspaper, we didn't attack this policy,

it was the main guru there even during poroshenko's presidency. poles are not the ones who can say such things to ukrainians in public , given your situation of the occupation of crimea, the threat to independence and the fifth column in

donbas. poles should not talk like that. of course, there are questions, and we will return to them. ukraine. must win this war, and poland should help ukraine as much as possible, because in fact it is in our interests, polish interests, ukrainians protect not only themselves, they protect. a long way, i.e. many different twists and turns, we have to implement many different moments,

and the signed polish-ukrainian security agreement is very important, but the most important thing is also the readiness and maturity of the political elites in ukraine and poland to consistently implement it. understand that we have no chance to fix any bugs because it is ongoing war, as it was defined in the kremlin... an existential war against ukraine and against nato, and of course against poland. perhaps now they are not ready to hit warsaw with a missile, but sooner or later it may happen. that is, today i do not see any direct threat, but it is obvious that there is an imperial logic.

this is the first stage, after finlandization it is time for the soviet kerelo-finnish republic.

such is the logic of that imperialism, and this is the same turning point as in the 1930s, the struggle between fascism and anti-fascism, and again with there were many unpleasant things on the anti-fascist side. spain has a problem with catalonia, in italy

the prime minister is post-fascist, in france, germany also has its own issues, scotland, obviously, on this side we have viktor orbán, a very dangerous figure, very dangerous, because he behaves as if he was is putin's envoy.

this is, in my opinion, the most important moment in the history of ukraine since the beginning of its existence. ukraine is consciously building its new national identity by paying the highest price in blood, sacrifices, and suffering. in fact, ukraine already won this war, already won, if within two years putin is unable to break the ukrainian resistance, i thought what he would do. this is in a week, so this is a vivid manifestation of what the ukrainian people want, we will talk about the problems later, when ukraine wins, but the most important thing is the demonstration of maturity by the political elites, and maturity means responsibility, right? and

the most important thing is the readiness of the ruling years in poland, the same tusk, go to the end.

but of course there are elements of the elites who have a different opinion, who believe that ukraine is not ours case. that this is characteristically russia, and that we do not get involved in it, and in the russian-ukrainian conflict it is necessary to maintain a certain neutrality, that in essence the body is right, because what is the interest of the poles to interfere in the war.

by laws, that territory that looks like no matter who wins, and the way the dog rules, it won't be like that, but it's a conflict, a very sharp conflict, which won't necessarily be read from the outside.

because poland will not be able to say that, but it is true, they like putin, so there will be problems here, but if we look at the long term perspective, it becomes obvious that ukraine's victory is a chance for poland. if they say in poland that

there will be problems with the victory of ukraine, i answer. ukraine and poland will have problems, because we have other interests when it comes to farming and so on. well, there will be time to negotiate, but it is better than living under the kremlin's thumb. this is true, i completely agree, but at one time marshelok piłsutskii became a hostage of what was called the polish endezia. i agree with this. of course, different times, but 100 years ago, we saw something similar. i'm just afraid one, so that at some point tusk did not say. i'm sorry, i'm very sorry.

in 1988, no one in poland believed that we would overthrow the dictatorship without a single broken window. without gallows, without civil war and that we will peacefully go to democracy, that the soviet union will collapse. that we will border with independent lithuania, with independent ukraine, no one believes at all, it happened, so we must believe that a positive scenario is possible. we must,

simply must, make any scenario positive, but there is still, for example, a tendency that there is a polish village, there is a ukrainian nation, there is a ukrainian view of reality, and so on.

alena, the leftists who say that everything must be brought back to normal, that a world revolution is needed, and without that nothing will happen, not the leftists who say to give money to everyone who needs it, let it be such leftists who recognize the right to compromise, the right to compromise, gradual changes, but always in one direction, in the direction of agreements.

there is still a lot of work on consciousness, how easy it is to instill and revive all kinds of nationalism in poland, this is a big problem, but not the whole, behind this is the historical memory, this feeling that we are innocent by nature, that we have never done anything bad to anyone, this is all that resists. you talk about poland in such a way that sometimes i transfer it to ukraine, that we are innocent and that our mykola gogol was only a good writer and person, but he was also an imperial tool, but the writer was great, taras bulba, which was about taras potatoes? and we understand that it was written after the uprising, which the russians simply destroyed.

gogol walked like a good angel of the orthodox world, praised the white tsar and so on, and all this was on corpses, but dead souls are a masterpiece, the point here is only that we in ukraine should be critical of our past as well, as we must, kulish, who worked in warsaw as a tool of whom, the occupation government, the occupation administration? of course a good person, very kind, very good, responsible, did a lot, but it turned out that we have a lot to dig into, that is , to look for some skeletons, but of course the most important thing is to look forward, i agree absolutely, it is necessary to build a new narrative, both polish and ukrainian, which is based on the truth, because otherwise who will build it?

actually, how to build that narrative, because we understand that the political elites want to rule, and not to deal with such small matters where money and influence are not involved, but we are there, you and i, to offer other options for looking at the polish history, polish modernity and polish-ukrainian relations, that's what we're here for. on the polish side , such ignorance prevailed for a long time ukrainian themes, and here there is a great merit of gedroyets, because he showed ukrainian perspectives and texts, that shot revival, it was a beautiful book, but it did very little. before that, they only

really started to discover it only at the end of the 80s, but it is priceless, the sixties, ukrainian writers such as andruhovych, zhadan, historian hrytsak, we suddenly heard a completely different voice of ukraine, and it is a voice that captivates , interests and causes respect, great respect. i agree, but you know what i'm afraid of, the village doesn't listen longed for, the village listens to orban, orban. you are right, but everything always starts with something, if you start by explaining to people in the province, in the villages, who was rudnytskyi the fox?

rudnitsky. then they will look at you as a person from another planet, but that's how they once looked at shevchenko, and shevchenko became a national hero, a symbol. similarly, in poland, mickiewicz writes, he wanted his books to become public property, but they did not become public property now . that's why everything always starts with the elites. yes, but now what do we have, competition between summers, tusk's proposal, for example, to a polish village, or zelenskyi's proposal for a ukrainian village, and so on. but we will see in a few years, or maybe even sooner, orban's proposal to the polish village. orban, a friend of yaroslav kaczyński. polish orban, he will be found.