that is, they repeat what the propaganda says, and accordingly, here we return to your previous question and about the thesis that putin can actually afford to leave the captured territories, because the propaganda has evolved so so often, very often our respondents, i when i listened to the answers of the russians, they in turn asked questions to the interior, that is, there you know, you understand these... svo, well, we, since we do it for the russians, we call it svo, so as not to arouse suspicion. the russians changed the question in their turn, do you understand? well, tell me, what are the goals? and that actually gives a huge, huge maneuver, room for maneuver to russia, to putin, to the russian elite in general. and how do you conduct such sociological surveys in russia in general, how can they be conducted realistically? just like the russian ones. sociologists, both kremlin and

independent, as well as us, after covid, the only such solid method, when it was not possible to go by route method face to face, remained a telephone survey, it is used by all sociologists without exception, in fact now, we also use it and we, with the only exception, we do not say that we are zapobi, just act as a russian sociological center, that's how. are ready to speak, but there is still no fear of what the russian oppositionists are saying, that people are simply afraid to talk to sociologists, or are they saying what they need to hear from the official point of view? we don't ask, our main approach, we don't ask any political questions, any ratings, any trust in the authorities, in the opposition, any questions that can, well, put them in some awkward position. situation once

secondly, we do not use the word war, we use all, indeed our interiors speak pure russian, er, and accordingly we try to understand the everyday life of russians, and we try to ask questions, well, which are within the competence of russians, that is, not to they are not the only ones, that is, we really have questions that are as basic as we are, which show conformity, but there are also... questions about their direct life experience, for example, you have someone who was mobilized, is that true or not no, you have someone who died, yes or not, but in this way, in this way , we are trying to understand to what extent the war has entered their everyday life, because it is very important, how much it affects an ordinary russian, and not only there a small part, for example, and we can say that the war really affects... every ordinary

russian, or not, it, yes, it enters, it enters their lives, uh, for example, because of the number of those, ah, people they know, whom they mobilized and who died, this number varies from study to study, we conducted the first survey in december 22nd, and by the 24th we had already conducted eight surveys, with a step of several months, ah, this number is just... steadily and quite strongly growing, and we can say, that in fact a third already has someone, among a fairly close circle, who has died and the majority has those who are mobilized, that is, to talk about the svo, some kind of distant special operation has long been impossible, no matter how the kremlin tried to do it, then, well, we you do not see of the second wave of mobilization

, we understand that from a military point of view they it should have been held a long, long time ago, girkin, who shouted about it, is in prison because of this, although he could even die because of it, this is also objective data, why they do not do it, 74% of russians are against the second waves of mobilization, when we initially conducted it, raised this question in december 60. 2% were against, in fact, in a year this number increased, well, by 12%. these numbers are in the kremlin, they also conduct these studies, so we see a clear understanding that this will cause a very negative reaction and accordingly we do not see from you of the second wave of mobilization, here is a simple example of why you need to do research. well, in fact, we can say that russian society is indifferent to the war, when it itself does not participate in this war. it is possible to do this

this this first yes, this is first of all, secondly, this society does not accept any responsibility for this war, respectively, when... we ask the question, do you agree that in the case of a relevant decision of the international court, it is necessary will pay reparations to russia? 71% say no, it will be a weakness and in general we are not here for anything, it is to understand what we are dealing with in the future, and what, well, in fact, what to appeal to our partners that, for example, these same 300 billion have no chance, that they should be... return to russia, not only the kremlin, not only the russian government, but society in general does not want to pay for this war, the passive majority, liberal- minded z-patriots, there is a consensus in russian society that they should pay for this war does not want, even if it

ends there tomorrow, it is important for us understanding of planning there for 5-10 years ahead, and in general, this society is not empathetic. and really, the only thing, what, what we can influence, what we can push back against, is really better to cheer from the couch than to participate directly in this war. thank you, mr. oleksandr, oleksandr shulga, doctor of sociology, head of the institute of conflict studies and analysis of russia, we spoke with him about the mood in russian society, and we see that russian society. in principle, indifferently regarding this aggressive war started against ukraine by vladimir putin, at the same time, as is often the case with such societies, he wants all victories to take place without his direct participation, he wants someone else to conquer foreign territories, he wants, so to

speak, to rake a joke with someone else's hands, this is even such a famous russian proverb, which, as we see, now directly responds to what is happening on... the russian-ukrainian front. we 're going to break for just a few minutes now, but stay with us, there are more important things to come dialogues there are leftovers that represent the only discounts on enterogermina of 15% in pharmacies of travelers and savers. long-acting cream relieves pain, reduces swelling and improves joint mobility. you can go on foot with the long-lasting cream. dolgit is the only yellow cream for joint pain. there are discounts representing the only discounts on magnesium 10% in pharmacies of travel bams and savings. fm halychyna.

listen to yours. there are discounts that represent the only discounts on exoder. in pharmacies plantain for you and saver new week on espresso - weekly summary informational and analytical program, a clear understanding of the key events of the past week, analysis of the causes and consequences of these events from experts, forecasts of the situation for the current week, the opportunity to ask your own questions and join in... spend the final monday evening with us and confidently step into the new week. the new week project with khrystyna yatskiv and andrii smoly, every monday at 8:00 p.m. on espresso. verdict with serhii rudenko, now in a new two-hour format. even

more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests: foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback. you can express your opinion... on the evil of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhii rudenko from tuesday to friday from 20 to 22. vasyl zima's big broadcast. my name is vasyl zima, this is a big broadcast on the espresso tv channel. two hours of airtime. two hours of your time. my colleagues and i will talk about the most important things. two hours to learn about... war about military, front, component, serhiy zgurets, what does the world live on? yuriy feder, already with me, and time to talk about what happened outside of ukraine, yuriy good evening, two hours to keep up with economic news, time to talk about money during the war, oleksandr morchyvka next to me, and sports news , i invite yevhen

pastukhov to the conversation, two hours in the company of favorite presenters, cultural news, alena chekchenina, our art watcher is ready to tell, good evening, the presenters, who have become familiar to many, are already next to me, ready to talk about... the weather for this weekend, as well as the distinguished guests of the studio, mustafa dzhemilov, the leader of the crimean tatar people, is in touch with us, mr. mustafa, i greet you, good day, events of the day in two hours, great broadcast vasyl. in winter, a project for smart and caring people in the evenings with espresso. we continue the political club program on the espresso tv channel. our next guest is dmytro yefremov, an expert of the ukrainian association of chinese studies and an associate professor of the international kyiv academy. congratulations, mr. dmytro. good evening. well, dmytro kuliba visited gongzhou, met with minister affairs of the knri, it was said that

the ukrainian side did not say this, that china would not sell weapons to russia, that it respects ukrainian territorial integrity, etc. after that, vani immediately meets with the minister of foreign affairs of russia, sergey lavrov, and he rejects any possibility of negotiations between russia and ukraine, and after that wangi holds the next meeting with the secretary of state of the united states, antony blinken, who is in super... by the way , which volodymyr zelenskyi and dmytro kuleba also said, emphasizes that the united states will continue to oppose military aid from china to the russian federation, so what has changed as a result, when everything is silent all these statements that were, we hear again, and in the same tone from the same players . ukraine relies on china, russia ignores any negotiation offers, the united states continues to insist that china is helping russia in its war. of ukraine. yes, you have indeed spotted the main trend. china has the position it

took around the beginning of the war, and this is it and has been going on for these two years and has practically not changed. and dmytro koleba's visit to china looks extraordinary against the background of this position. china has a convenient, comfortable position for him, he does not have to do anything. he has made up his mind, he positions himself as a neutral player. he positions himself as the party that can lead. with everyone with whom it deems necessary, that it does not support the war, is not a participant in the war, and in general, with such a position, china had no incentives to meet with the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, that is, china itself invited kuleba, and this visit happened, so this event looks extraordinary against the background of the general chinese line, and here there is a reason why, why it was necessary to leave such a comfort zone. and, let's say, radically change it, inviting hesitation and creating such a distortion, or

let's say, a stormy commentary on chinese politics in all corners of the world. from my point of view, if its general line changed so radically, there were some extraordinary circumstances that pushed china to do so. i think these circumstances are connected with the fact that china has come to realize that the probability... of victory in the united states in the election of president donald trump is extremely high, all these events that have happened there in the last month, a month and a half, that is, the debates are unsuccessful for biden, the shooting in pennsylvania, when there was an assassination attempt on trump, the democratic party is in an uproar , in order to determine who will succeed biden and so on, and watching all this, chinese specialists, observers and those who work ... maybe in the ministry of foreign affairs, they came to the conclusion that the victory trump is inevitable, and for china it will be even

worse and even more catastrophic than it was before, they began to analyze what trump says about china, what his policy will be and what risks arise with it, and so in order to prepare for these challenges, and trump there he said, for example, about tariffs of 100% or 60% on all chinese goods, he said about new sanctions, about new ones'. demarcation and transfer of the center of attention from ukraine, from the middle east to the pacific region and to china, and feeling this threat, they began to analyze and think that they can to do, how can they strengthen their position in this situation, what do they need, how can they compensate for these new trade wars that trump can probably start again against the united states, and for them one of the obvious answers to these questions has been the intensification of communication with the european union, with european politicians, with

european leaders and so on. remember, in may, sijin pin made a visit to europe, and this visit was about trade, it was not about ukraine, not about nato, but about trade. they agreed on under what conditions china can trade, how to ease restrictions, whether europe will agree not to introduce various sanctions against chinese companies, and so on, how will it work? all this dialogue, and in order to strengthen its relationship with europe, china needed to show a certain gesture, a certain signal to the europeans that they would listen. to their main concerns and problems, and these problems are related to ukraine, related to security risks, which european leaders regularly told sidzen pinu during bilaterals, multilateral meetings, and xi jinping almost never responded to them in any clear way, but simply referred them to the chinese position, which had already been presented before, and

now, sensing this threat, china had to look for some other ways, and this... log with europe is possible only on the condition that china sends a certain positive signal that it is ready to communicate with ukraine, ready to change its position, adapt it to new challenges and conditions, but in essence this, at least from my point of view, has become the main the reason that china suddenly offered the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine a meeting, and such a meeting took place in guangzhou. well, first of all, i want to understand from the point of view of logic, well, purely. of chinese policy, if china believes that it is a neutral participant in events, and china all the time accuses the west of the fact that the west as a whole is not neutral, if it supplies ukraine with weapons and incites a further war, and china is neutral, well, it is a neutral country and should communicate with both participants in the conflict, the chinese spoke to the first deputy to the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine andriy

sabiz, when he was in beijing, well, we would have come to switzerland, but you did not invite russia, and we want both sides to be present. well, in this logic, it is absolutely correct to invite the ukrainian minister of foreign affairs and communicate with him, we are neutral. here we are talking to lavrov, here we are talking to koliba. what is the change of position here? as for me, it is not very clear to me. it is clear that china is not neutral, they only talk with russians, if they are neutral, then they they talk here and there, no, theirs, their neutrality, they proclaimed from the beginning, and how many times since the beginning they met with lavrov and putin, sydzenpin and putin with... met about 10 times, something like six or eight , with lavrov - that's one and a half dozen meetings, with kuliba there was only one, and it was at the site, it seems, of the united nations organization, it was at the site of the munich conference, and yes, and the munich conference, that's what took place recently, yes, and a few phone calls in between, and that's it the level of intensity of communication was different,

of course that china presents it as such, that it sees the situation in this way, and it has, as it says, its own... its own special approach to the settlement of this conflict, it presents it in this way, and of course it convenient, but in fact we see that it was a distortion, a distortion in favor of the russian federation, a distortion that was regularly pointed out to china, other western politicians, and which he essentially routinely ignored. now he had extraordinary incentives to invite kuleba suddenly, unexpectedly, unannounced and carry out such a dialogue. and tell me, what about... from the point of view of this invitation, the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine visited china, to whom this is really a signal from russia, then wang-gui goes to laos, where he meets with the high representative of the european union borei, where he says: look, you wanted us to talk with ukraine, so we are talking, and now let's go ahead and solve our bilateral

problems with you, which relate to trade, the conditions for the admission of chinese goods to european markets, and the conditions for the access of chinese... investors to, let's say, european high-tech companies, well, i'm already explaining, yes, but in fact there are not high-tech companies, but in general companies, nevertheless, china has a very useful interest, and from my point of view, china's sensitivity to the situation in ukraine will also depend very heavily on how trade negotiations proceed. we already have essentially a collapse of the international trade dispute settlement system. and e, say, the system of organization of world trade. sot, the world trade organization is dysfunctional, it is blocked in including the united states. these deals are not working now. the world, from the point of view of trade, is moving towards the creation of some mega-large trade blocs. and countries, in relation to each other, or large regions, they will unite internally

and be separated from others by high tariff protective barriers. and here the dialogue is very very. important, that is, that this process continues at different speeds, so that an agreement can be reached between the eu and china when the eu and the united states similarly start to conflict. trump is already following his previous one cadence was also actively attacked in trade not only by china itself, but also by the european union , there were also big frictions there, and they caused difficulties in the dialogue with the europeans. and china also anticipates that this coming of trump to power, of course, these are colossal risks for china itself, but this is also a window... of opportunities to get closer, to get closer to the europeans, i'll be honest, i'm surprised that they sincerely believe in , that they can get the europeans to change their position and that they... maybe a dialogue can develop, but this is chinese policy, they implement it consistently, they think that they can establish communication on a bilateral level with different countries, and thus

achieve the promotion of their interests on a pan-european level, that is why they continue this dialogue with hungary, that is why they communicate with france, that is why georgia maloney goes to china and they welcome it, that is, this whole process continues, and they... most likely will try to solve their trade issues through bilateral communication, and then bring it to the pan-european level. and tell me, here it is we need to pack our bags and go so quickly if we are invited somewhere, that's what i mean, how much time actually passed from dmytro koleba's invitation to china, to his arrival in gongzhou, well, a few weeks, but practically, because the summit

and at the same time, it was just before the conference in switzerland, when china also had to decide whether he was going there or not, and he also held a pause until the last, that is , it is a very sudden visit, but do we have to agree to such schemes , maybe we still can , if somewhere they want to see ukraine there... they want to see the minister somewhere, maybe you need to put forward your conditions for holding such meetings, and then meet, because, that is, not to give the opportunity to use ukraine as a tool for improving relations with europe, say? of course, it would be worth doing so if ukraine had a strong position in this situation, we can really trade there, try with china, say, if we do not have an understanding with you on our problem, we will look there. communications with taiwan or apply some other measures, but in ukraine always has a weaker position against china, because we have trade with china for this

six months, we sold $1.7 billion worth of grain there, and vaani reminded about this in his press release that we buy your grain, remember remember this, we provide your logistics, remember this, plus we supply from china, we purchase a very important animal for us right now, which is drones, which ... potentially the chinese authorities can also affect, so we do not have such now a potentially powerful position for us to be there firmly to bargain, to achieve their terms and so on. moreover, i think that the president's administration has its own strategy for china's relationship with china, it consists in finding a dialogue and a compromise, and now they are implementing it. and tell me, are you not surprised by the fact that the statements of the two ministries of foreign affairs differ so sharply from the point of view. test that everything that was needed by ukraine, which is in the statement of the ukrainian foreign ministry, is practically absent in the statement of the chinese foreign ministry. maybe it doesn't matter much, after all, real negotiations are taking place

behind the scenes, not in statements, but the very fact that there is no territorial integrity there, to comment precisely, ready to comment precisely on what the chinese side says. i regularly monitor their press releases, compare them with what is happening as a result of meetings from other countries, and practice. expressing their position radically different from the position of the guest is a normal case for them. they very often express completely different conclusions and comments with the russian federation, right? they always focus on that why is it important to them, in their press releases, cooperation, on the development of partnership, on the fact that this or that country is or is not a participant of the belt and road initiative, on how long diplomatic relations between them last and to what extent. they are successful and so on, that is , china is more like a ritual for them, they reproduce certain standardized points there from communique to communique from press release to press release, and

the addressee of these messages is most likely not even a guest and not an internal audience, but the addressee is the countries of the global south, which china tries time and time again to demonstrate that it is a reliable partner, stable, we... benevolent, ready to help in development, ready to support the solution of some of their regional problems or conflicts, invest in their infrastructure and the like, that is, china is better than the united states, a leader for the world, is a way of such communication. and tell me, what do you think, this meeting blinky on ivan ye, it led to some level of understanding, because vanish told blinken that the escalation is only increasing, complex. just a question are intensifying, and therefore efforts must be made to manage the escalation, but this means that china does not seek normalization of relations with the united states, it simply wants the escalation to be foreseen.

it is difficult to say, i would attribute here to the fact that this is a certain offensive line that the biden administration is currently implementing in the chinese direction, it alternates, there was a certain stage when there was an aggravation, then there was a warming, the chinese side always likes to return to what the leaders of the countries there meeting in san francisco at the end of the 23rd year, they reached an understanding, and now we are implementing their ideas. into practical actions, but in fact, china always takes such a defensive position in relation to the united states, it always refutes all these attacks and so on, remember the nato summit in washington and its main resolution, the main message, which was about they now regard china as the main instigator of the war, and in china, of course, this caused

an outpouring of discontent. and they are very aggressive and so openly condemned it and commented on it in a very negative way, that is, it was not china that provoked the united states to such offensive actions, but the united states regularly reminds, reminds and reminds china that its position is not the one that the americans would like , and ee they expect correction, and for china this is also a matter of principle, china cannot agree to the american leader ... in any matter, because in this case he will demonstrate his, shall we say, subordination, that he is , goes in the fairway of american politics, and does not realize its interests, therefore, in any hot situations, conflicts, in the corners of the world, it is important for china to demonstrate its autonomy, its independence and a certain alternative path. how realistic is this, given china's economic dependence on the united states? you are talking about

ukrainian dependence, but, but china's dependence on the united states is greater than ukraine's dependence on china's economy, absolutely true, the dependence is high, and by the way, this dependence is also one of the reasons why they are trying to develop relations with the europeans, expecting aggravation of relations with the united states, their scientists, their public figures officially pronounce such and such a position, the statement is such that they understand that the united states will not change its own. course in relation to china and that relations between the countries will not improve, on the contrary, will worsen. this is a long-term trend. china is a rival for them, for the united states, and they act within this logic. accordingly, china must now prepare for the fact that the situation will become more and more complicated. they continue internal reforms, they are trying to increase the degree of their financial, economic autonomy from the global economy, and they are also trying to connect all other countries to... they

can be reached through trade, through economic relations, connect them with their economy so that they - synchronized and acted more in the interests of china than in the interests of the united states. this is their strategy. thank you, thank you, mr. dmytro, dmytro yefremov, expert of the ukrainian association of chinese studies, associate professor of the department of international of relations of the kyiv-mohyla academy, and we talked about a whole series with him, i would say the meeting that took place now with the chinese foreign minister, who just a few days later met with the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine dmytro kuleba, the minister of foreign affairs of russia of the federation by sergey lavrov and united states secretary of state antony blinken, of course this is only part of the meeting of the chinese foreign minister within the framework of dmytro kolye's visit to gongzhou and the asean summit, but these three meetings, they

certainly connected without... directly with russia's war against ukraine and with the efforts of the united states to stop the support that china provides to the russian federation. vadym polishchuk, historian, political observer from israel , is now in touch with us. and we will talk about the situation in the middle east. congratulations, mr. vadim. good evening, mr. vitaly. well, the impact of a rocket on the dutch heights in the drus village of marjal champs, where 12 teenagers and children died. yes, i think this is the final figure, maybe it has increased now, so far i haven't seen the latest news on the air, this is, i would say, the biggest attack on this region for the entire time of the war, which began on october 7 in 2023, what are the consequences of this attack, in your opinion, and how realistic it is. ..