if it ends there tomorrow, it is important for our understanding of planning there for 5-10 years ahead, and in general, this society, it is not empathetic, and really the only thing that we can influence, what we can push back from, it really is better to cheer from the couch than to participate directly in this war. thank you, mr. oleksandr. shulga, doctor of sociological sciences, head of the institute of conflict studies and analysis of russia, we spoke with him about the mood of russian society, and we see that russian society, in principle, indifferent to this aggressive war launched against ukraine by vladimir putin, at the same time, as is often the case with such societies, he wants all victories to take place without his direct participation, he wants someone else to conquer foreign territories, so to speak, rake a joke

by someone else's hands, this is even such a famous russian proverb, which, as we can see, now directly responds to what is happening on the russian-ukrainian front. we're going to break for just a few minutes now, but you stay with us, there are still important dialogues ahead. there are discounts representing the only discounts on glicised and gliciset max, 20% in travel pharmacies. there are discounts, they represent the only discounts for sudokrem 15% in the pharmacies of travelers and savings there are discounts , they represent the only discounts on trokvas inn 15% in the pharmacies of travelers and the saver exclusively on the air of our channel, congratulations, friends, on the air , the politclub program on the espresso tv channel on... most topical topics of the week

nato member countries have huge arsenals, and russia is already on the verge of exhausting its resources. topics that cause a resonance in our society. this is the question of trump's victory, what is it? analysis of the processes that change the country and each of us. what else can the russians do, are they able to use, say, the resources of the lukashenka army allied with them. vitaly portnikov and guests of the project read the entire condemnation. thank you, it was difficult, but i was just curious, but it was absolutely not eaten, help to understand the present and predict the future, offered the united states to include a bilateral security agreement with us. project for caring and thoughtful. politclub every sunday at 20:00 at espresso. new week on espresso.

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in general, i believe that we need two things: money and weapons. we did not start this war, but we must finish it and we must win. every thursday at 21:15 in the project velikiy lviv talks about the most important things, on the espresso tv channel. we continue the program. club on the espresso tv channel, our next guest is dmytro yefrimov, an expert of the ukrainian association of chinese studies and an associate professor of the department of international relations at the kyiv-magilya academy. congratulations, mr. dmytro. good evening. well, dmytro kuliba visited guangzhou, met with the minister of foreign affairs of the people's republic of china wang yi. it was said that the chinese told the ukrainian side that china will not sell weapons to russia, that it respects ukrainian territorial integrity. after that, vanei immediately

meets with the minister of foreign affairs of russia, sergey lavrov, and he rejects any possibility of negotiations between russia and ukraine, and after that, vanei conducts the next one. a meeting with united states secretary of state anthony blinken, who , contrary to what volodymyr zelenskyi and dmytro kuleba said, by the way , emphasizes that the united states will continue will oppose china's military aid to the russian federation, but what has changed as a result, when everything is silent , we hear all these statements that were made again, and in the same tone from the same players. ukraine hopes for china, russia does not pay attention to any. negotiating proposals, the united states continues to insist that china is helping russia in its war with ukraine? yes, you did spot the main trend: china has the position it took around the beginning of the war, and here it is and has been going on for these two years, and practically has not changed, and dmitry koleva's visit to china

looks extraordinary against the background of this position. china has a convenient, comfortable position for him, he does not have to do anything, he has made up his mind, he positions himself as a neutral player, he positions himself as the party that can conduct a dialogue with everyone with whom it deems necessary, that it is not supports the war, is not a participant in the war, and in general, with such a position, china had no incentives to meet with the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, that is, china itself invited kulebu, and this visit took place, so this event looks extraordinary against the background of the general chinese line and... here there is a reason why, why it was necessary to leave such a comfort zone and, let's say, radically change it, inviting kulebu and creating such a distortion , or let's say, a stormy commentary on china's policy in all corners of the world, from my point of view, if its general

line has changed so radically, there have been some extraordinary circumstances that have pushed china to do this, i think, these circumstances by... related to the fact that in china they have come to the realization that the probability of victory in the united states in the election of president donald trump is extremely high, all these events that have happened there in the last month, a month and a half, that is, the debate is unsuccessful for biden, the shooting in pennsylvania, when trump was assassinated, the democratic party was scrambling to determine who would succeed biden and so forth, and watching everything... these, uh, china experts, pundits and those who work, maybe in the ministry of foreign affairs, they came to the conclusion that trump's victory was inevitable, and for china it would be even worse and even more catastrophic than before, they began to analyze what trump was saying

about china, what his policies would be, and what risks arise with this, and in order to prepare for these challenges, and trump said there, for example, about 100% tariffs. by 60% on all chinese goods, said about new sanctions, about new restrictions and shifting the center of attention from ukraine, from the middle east to the pacific region and china. and feeling this threat, they began to analyze and consider what they can do, how they can strengthen their position in this situation, what they need, how they can compensate for these new trade wars that trump can probably start again against the united states. and for them, one of the obvious answers to these questions was the intensification of communication with the european union, with european politicians, with european leaders, and so on. remember, in may, sijin pin made a visit to europe, and this visit was about

trade, he was not about ukraine, not about nato, but about trade. they agreed on the conditions under which china can trade, how to ease restrictions, whether europe will agree not to introduce various sanctions against chinese companies, and so on, how this whole dialogue will work, and in order to strengthen its relations with europe, china needs was to demonstrate a certain gesture, a certain signal to europeans that they will listen to their most important concerns and problems, and these problems are related to ukraine, related to security risks, which european leaders regularly told xi jinping during 2 multilateral meetings, and xi jinping almost never responded to them in any clear way, but simply referred them to the chinese position that had already been presented, and now, sensing this threat, china had to look for other ways, and this dialogue with europe

is possible only on the condition that china sends a certain positive signal that it is ready to communicate with ukraine, ready to change its position, adapt it to new challenges conditions, but in fact, this, at least from my point of view, became the main reason why china suddenly offered the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine to meet, and such a meeting took place in guangzhou, well, first of all, i want to understand from the point of view of logic, well , purely chinese politics, if china believes that it is a neutral participant in events, and kitayev all the time accuses the west of being neutral, if it supplies ukraine with weapons and instigates a further war, and china is neutral, such a neutral country and must communicate with both parties to the conflict. the chinese spoke to the first deputy minister of foreign affairs of ukraine andrii sabiza when he was in beijing. would have come to switzerland, but you did not invite russia, and we want both sides to be present, well, in this logic, it is absolutely

correct to invite the ukrainian minister of foreign affairs and communicate with him, we are neutral, here we are talking with lavrov, here we are talking with koleba , what is the change of position here, here i am, it is not very clear to me, just that china is not neutral, they they talk only with the russians, if they are neutral, then they talk here and there, no, they have declared their neutrality from the beginning. and how many times since the beginning they met with lavrov and with putin, sijin ping met with putin under 10 times, something like six or eight, with lavrov - that's one and a half dozen meetings, with kuleva there was only one, and she was on the court, it seems of the united nations, there was a report of the munich conference, and yes, of the munich conference, this is what took place recently, yes, and several phone calls between them, that 's all, that is, the level of intensity of communication was different, of course, that china presents it. how is it that he sees the situation this way, he has , as he says it, his own, er, personality, his own special

approach to the settlement of this conflict, he presents it this way, and of course it is so convenient for him, but in fact we see that this there was a distortion, a distortion in favor of the russian federation, a distortion that was regularly pointed out to china, er, other western politicians, and which he essentially regularly ignored, now he had extraordinary incentives to invite kuleba suddenly... unexpectedly, unannounced and carry out such a dialogue. and tell me, what changes from the point of view of this invitation, the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine visited china, to whom is this really a signal? russia, then wang-yi, then wang-yi goes to laos, where he meets with the high representative of the european union , borel, where he says: "look, you wanted us to talk with ukraine? so we talk, and now let's decide our with you bilateral issues related to trade. the conditions for the admission of chinese goods to european markets and the conditions for access of chinese

investors to, let's say, european high-tech companies, well, i already explained yes, but in fact there are not high-tech companies, but in general companies, nevertheless, china has a very useful interest, and from my point of view, china's sensitivity to the situation in ukraine will also depend very seriously on how the trade negotiations take place, we already have in fact a collapse of the international trade settlement system disputes and, let's say, the world trade organization system. the world trade organization (wto) is dysfunctional, it is blocked , including by the united states. these deals are not working now. the world, from the point of view of trade, is moving towards the creation of some mega- large trade blocs. and countries, in relation to each other or large regions, they will unite internally and defend themselves. from others by high tariff protective barriers, and here the dialogue is very, very important, that is, that this process

continues at different speeds, so that it is possible to come to an agreement between the eu and china when the eu and the united states also begin to clash. already during his previous term, trump actively attacked not only china himself in trade, but the european union as well, there were big frictions there, and they caused difficulties in the dialogue with the europeans. and china also assumes that this... trump's coming to power is, of course, enormous risks for china itself, but it is also a window of opportunity to get closer to the europeans. i'll be honest, i'm surprised that they sincerely believe in what they can do to get the europeans to change their position and that they can, a dialogue can develop, but this is the chinese policy, they implement it consistently, they think that they can establish communication on a bilateral level with different countries and in this way achieve it. advancing their interests to the pan-european level, that's why they continue this dialogue with hungary, that's

why they communicate with france, that's why georgia maloney goes to china and they welcome her, that is, this whole process continues, and they will most likely try to solve their trade issues through bilateral communication, and then bring it to the pan-european level. tell me, do we need to pack our bags and leave so quickly? that we are being invited somewhere, that's what i mean, how much time actually passed from dmytro koliba's invitation to china to his arrival in gongzhou, well, several weeks. the truth is practical, because before the switzerland peace summit in june, the deputy minister was in china, and there were definitely frictions, they did not agree to his visit until the last, and at the same time it was just before the conference in switzerland, when china it was also necessary to decide whether he was going there

or not, and he also held a pause until the last, that is, it was a very sudden visa, well, do we need to... for such schemes, maybe we still do, if ukraine is wanted somewhere to see, they want to see the ukrainian minister somewhere, maybe it is necessary to put forward the conditions for holding such meetings, and then already meet, because, that is, not to give the opportunity to use ukraine as a tool for improving relations with europe, let's say, of course, this should be done, if ukraine had a strong position of the whole situation, we can really trade there, try with china, say: if we... do not have an understanding with you on our problem, we will seek communication with taiwan there or apply some other measures, but ukraine is always against china a weaker position, because we have trade with china, for this six months we sold grain there for 1.7 billion dollars, and one reminded about this in his press release that we

buy your grain, remember this, we take care of your logistics, remember that, plus we are from china... we buy a lot the important thing for us now is the drones, which the chinese government can potentially influence as well, that is, we do not have such a potentially powerful position at the moment in order to be able to bargain strongly there, to achieve our terms and so on, the more so, i i think the president's administration has its own strategy for china's relationship with china, it consists in finding a dialogue and a compromise, and now they are implementing it. and tell me, are you dissatisfied? by the fact that the statements of the two foreign ministries differ so sharply in terms of theses that all that was needed ukraine, which is in the statement of the ukrainian foreign ministry, is practically absent in the statement of the chinese foreign ministry. maybe it doesn't matter much, after all , real negotiations take place behind the scenes, not in statements, but the very fact that there is no territorial integrity, there is nothing to comment on, i am ready

to comment on what the chinese side says. i regularly monitor their press releases, compare them with what is happening as a result of meetings from other countries, and the practice of expressing their position radically different from the position of the guest, it is for them normal case. they very often express completely different conclusions and comments with the russian federation, and they always focus on what is important to them, in their press releases, on cooperation, on the development of partnership, on the fact that this or that country is or is not is the owner of the initiative in the belt and road, based on how long their diplomatic relations last, how successful they are, and so on, that is, china is more like a ritual for them, they reproduce certain standardized points from the communiqué to communique, from press release to press release, the addressee of these messages is most likely

not even a guest or an internal audience, but the addressee is the countries of the global south, to whom china is trying time and time again... to demonstrate that it is a reliable partner , stable, peaceful, ready to help in development, ready to support the solution of some of their regional problems or conflicts, invest in their infrastructure and the like, that is, china is better than the united states, a leader for the world, this is a way of such communication, and tell me how you do you think so? meeting blinkin ivan yes, did it lead to any? level of understanding, because vanish told blinkin that the escalation is only increasing, the difficult issues are only increasing, and therefore efforts must be made to manage the escalation, but this means that china is not seeking normalization of relations with the united states, just wants escalation to be foreseen? it is difficult to say, i would attribute here to

the fact that this is a certain offensive such a line, which the biden administration is currently implementing in chinese. market it alternates, somehow the stage was when there was an aggravation, then there was a warming, the chinese side always likes to return to the fact that the leaders of the countries there, meeting in san francisco at the end of the 23rd year, reached an understanding, and now we are implementing their ideas into practical actions, but actually china always takes such a defensive position towards the united states, it always denies these v... these attacks and so on, remember the nato summit in washington and its main resolution, the main message which was about what they now china is regarded as the main... instigator of the war, yes, in china it naturally caused a flurry of dissatisfaction, and they very aggressively and so openly condemned it and commented on it

in a very negative way, so it was not china that provoked the allied states to such offensives actions, and this is the united states regularly reminding, reminding and reminding china, accordingly, that its position is not the one that the americans would like, and they expect you... influence, and for china it is also a matter of principle. china cannot accept american leadership on any issue, because in this case he will demonstrate his, let's say, subordination, that he is walking in the fairway of american politics, and not realizing his interests. therefore, in any hot situations, conflicts, in the corners of the world, it is important for china to demonstrate its autonomy, its independence and a certain alternative path. how much is that... realistic given china's economic dependence on the united states? you are talking about ukrainian dependence, but, but china's dependence on the united states is more than ukrainian dependence on china's economy.

it is absolutely true, the dependence is high, and by the way, this dependence is also one of the reasons why they are trying to develop relations with the europeans, expecting aggravation of relations with the united states. their scientists, their public figures officially declare such and such a position. the statement is that they understand that the united states will not change its course in relation to china, and that the relationship between the countries will not improve, on the contrary, it will worsen. this is a long-term trend. china for them, for the united states is an adversary and they act within this logic. accordingly, china must now prepare for the fact that the situation will become more and more complicated. they continue internal reforms, they try to strengthen the degree of their financial and economic autonomy. from the global economy, and they are also trying to connect all the other countries that they can reach through trade, through economic relations, to connect them to their

economy, so that they - synchronize and act more in the interests of china, and not in interests of the united states, this is their strategy. thank you, thank you, mr. dmytro, dmytro yefremov, an expert of the ukrainian association of china studies, associate professor of the department of international relations of the kyiv-mohyla academy, and we talked with him about... a whole series, i would say, of meetings that took place now at the chinese minister of foreign affairs affairs one, who in just a few days met with the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine dmytro kuliba, the minister of foreign affairs of the russian federation sergey lavrov and the secretary of state of the united states anthony blinken, of course, this is only part of the meeting of the chinese foreign minister as part of the visit. dmitry koan-jou and the asean summit, but these three meetings, of course, are directly related to russia's war against ukraine and to the efforts of the united states to stop the support that china provides

to the russian federation. vadym pelishchuk, a political historian and a spectator from israel, is now in touch with us. and we will talk about the situation in the middle east. congratulations, mr. vadim. good evening, sir. well, the impact of a rocket on the dutch heights in the village of drus majal shabs. where 12 teenagers and children died, yes, i think this is the final number, maybe now, it has increased, so far i have not seen the latest news on the air, this is, i would say, the biggest attack in this region, during the entire war , which began on october 7 in 2023, what do you think the consequences will be? and this strike, how real is the war between israel and hezbollah as a result of this attack? well, you've seen that

lately both sides have somehow tried to maintain this level of escalation, which was, and some such red lines were drawn, the parties tried to adhere to them, because they did not want a war to immediately break out, and also israel was not interested in starting a full-scale military operation in the north without finishing the matter in gaza , but as always happens in such situations, such a black swan appears, which forces the parties to decide something, and this is exactly the hit in this stadium tree village, it is just like that... and we see that, well, israel cannot not respond , weak to answer also no maybe, but for nato to respond is to start

a full-scale war and... is israel ready, today netanyahu is from washington, from where he urgently returned, and the meeting was supposed to start at 6 p.m., and so far i have not received the information, what they decided there, well, they may not announce anything in particular, we will see it in the future events, what will happen next, but we see that the druze community of israel has spoken. urgently demands such a tough answer on this matter, instead, here are the lebanese friends, they are dependent on that one the situation that exists in lebanon, they are trying to somehow remove the blame and transfer it to israel as usual. the same thing, by the way, i just saw the statement of the lebanese foreign minister, bouhabib, who said that hezbollah is ready to retreat beyond the litani river,

which is 29. north of the israeli- lebanese border, if israel stops striking the territory of lebanon itself . can it be considered that this is a real real such an attempt by hezbollah to deflect some serious blow from the side of israel? well maybe, maybe they don't they were afraid not so much of israel itself, because they had already learned how to fly, well... what israel is capable of and what and how israel reacts and what it influences, what factors influence israel, in particular the united states, this reaction of europe, the un and everything other things, but the reaction of the druze community is such a thing, well, that is not influenced by the united states, the european community, the un, or any rules of warfare, the israeli prosecutor's office, which

has recently begun to persecute. people who came to the defense of the state, well, i think so that ukrainians are also somewhat familiar with such a situation, and friends, they are such clever guys, there was just an incident here recently, when some druze guys from the north of israel were taken hostage in the territory of samaria, judea, and some negotiations began, and friends came, and somehow everything was explained to the local palestinians in such a way that they quickly gave them away. and apologized, you know, what about kadyrov over there in russia, you mean the druze community, the druze community in lebanon, or the druze community in israel, but wait, as far as i i understand, as far as i understand, these are still different communities, there are communities of israeli friends that are in the vicinity of haifa, and there is this community that everyone is paying attention to now, the leader of which was in matzelshams yesterday, but i apologize...

this is a slightly different community, have you been to marjelshams? so it is, it is actually, it is actually syrian friends, but who are residents of israel, who live permanently in the territory of israel. but they don't take israeli citizenship, right? they don't take it for some reasons of their own, well, i heard the opinion that they don't take it because they are afraid that some kind of peacemaker will appear at the head of israel again, who will give this territory to syria, and then these, these... friends there , representatives of the most peaceful religion in the world will simply cut off their heads and everything will end there, so they are afraid of this step somehow restrained, but in principle it is so friendly, let's say, the sense of community, it is quite large, and all these communities, syrian, jordanian, lebanese, israeli, they still

have such, well, coordination among themselves, you just need to know this druze religion, that it is impossible neither to become a druze nor to accept this religion, or to marry someone there and accept it, you can only be born, that is, for them, this loss of these children, i think, is a very big blow, and they will not forgive it so much , i do, because this is a small community, and not only small, but simply... well, no one even knows what they believe in, but in general they are quite militant, they fight a lot in israel in such special forces and are such a border , those who are fighting are not the friends who are on the golans, that's right, these are the friends who live in the vicinity of haifa, no, well, in general they are warlike, i just read the history of this people, at one time they ransacked everything nearby.