yes, they like putin, so there will be problems here, but if we look at the long term, it becomes obvious that the chance for poland is the victory of ukraine. if they say in poland that we will have problems with the victory of the country, i answer. ukraine and poland will have problems, because we have other interests when it comes to farming and so on. well, there will be time to negotiate, but it is better than living under the kremlin's shobut. this is true, i completely agree, but at one time maralok pilsudski became a hostage of what was called the polish endezia. others, of course times, but 100 years ago, we saw something similar. i am afraid of only one thing, that at some point tusk will not say.

poland is a country, so says my experience, where everything is possible, even changes for the better, so everything can work out, you have to believe in it, you have to be optimistic. you can't be a pessimist, go forward with your head turned back. you have to be an optimist. i believe that we will succeed in something, because we have already succeeded in several things. after all, in 1988, no one in poland believed that we would overthrow the dictatorship without a single broken window. no gallows, no civil war, and that we will peacefully go to democracy? that

the soviet union will collapse, that we will border independent lithuania and independent ukraine, no one believes at all, it happened, so we must believe that a positive scenario is possible. no, of course, we have to, we are simply obliged to make any scenario positive, but there is still, for example, a tendency: that there is a polish village, there is a ukrainian endezia, there is a ukrainian view of reality, and so on. let the right be right, please, but let it be like the british conservatives or the german ones christian democrats, so be it. but let it not be like the british supporters of brexit.

but not the left, who say that everything should be returned to the game in a flash. that a world revolution is needed, and without that nothing will happen, not the left who say to give money to everyone in need, let it be the left who recognize the right to compromise. recognize the right to gradual changes, but always in one direction, in the direction of agreements.

we stand higher, in terms of knowledge, such a big poster, lithuanian rude people, kneel in front of the polish master, something like that, it's full idiocy, cretinism and rudeness, but it was also like that, that is, i love poland very much, but this is

true love, because it is without illusions. i realize how much still needs to be done in poland, and these eight years brutally showed it. there is still a lot of work on consciousness, how easy it is to instill and revive all kinds of nationalism in poland. this is a big problem, but not the whole problem. behind this is historical memory. it is the feeling that we are inherently innocent, that we have done nothing wrong to anyone.

so that we have something to dig into, that is to look for some skeletons, but of course the most important thing is to look ahead. i

absolutely agree, it is necessary to build a new narrative and a polish-ukrainian one, which is based on the truth.

we in poland had very little of that, we only really started discovering it at the end of the 80s. but it is priceless, the sixties, ukrainian writers such as andruhovych, zhadan, historian hrytsak. we suddenly heard a completely different voice of ukraine, and it is a voice that fascinates, interests and commands respect. great respect i agree, but you know what am i afraid of, the village does not listen to zhadana, the village listens to orban. you are right, but everything always starts with something. if you start by explaining

to the people in the provinces, in the villages, who was he? but shevchenko was once looked at like that, and shevchenko became a national hero. similarly, in poland, mickiewicz wrote that he wanted his books to become public property, but they did not then. that's why everything always starts with the elites. yes, but putin's ukraine. but on the other hand, it showed the possibility and the polish reaction. i have to say i was impressed the first...

in any case, putin does not give us any other chance except for our central european integration, yes, but how far will putin go, that is, he said openly existences.

we have been talking about this for almost half an hour, but they have always been afraid of it, they were afraid of it in the 17th century, they were afraid of it in the 19th century, they were afraid of it in the 20s, i do not agree with this, because they were not afraid of it so much and even rather took it lightly, they essentially believed that there is no ukraine, there is a small country, there is no ukraine. and ukrainian is a corrupted russian, it did not occur to them what it was everything can be serious, it was broken by pilsutsky,

and he tried, but this is how the story turned out

then , that this agreement with petliura did not work. responsibility of the upa for the murder, i don't remember exactly, but it was so clearly anti-ukrainian, entered at the last moment.

of course, i also feel the influence of circles connected, perhaps with the kremlin, i no longer believe. i don't know how to build polish-ukrainian understanding with historical arguments. and to discuss this legislation, it is also a problem, it can be explosive. it will happen, i agree, but the path to heaven is not strewn with rose petals, there are also thorns. i will also walk through thorns, we must

win in this, we must leave it as a legacy to our children and grandchildren.

it was said very firmly that polish solidarity is on your side. that the actor is exposed, it will be his end, and the end of the political publicist will come if

he is never exposed, his own. we must repeat ours once and a second time and a third time, and the fourth and fifth, again and again, we must repeat, because this is an indicator of our professionalism and our human decency, if we do not do this, we will betray our profession, then we are not public at all, but just ordinary servants, or. .. public opinion, we cannot do this, and therefore today there is only one way into the future. the path of a reasonable polish-ukrainian dialogue, there is no chance for an independent poland without a free and independent ukraine. amen, mr. editor.

amen. well, i want to remind our viewers that now the legendary adam michnik was working on the tv channel. polish journalist, founder of the no less legendary electoral newspaper, polish dissident. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already approached the serpent himself. the following shots may shock you. news from the scene. live kamikaze drone attacks. political analytics. objectively and meaningfully. there is no political season, exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front. svobodalai, frankly and impartially, you draw your own conclusions. big comeback great lviv, conversations, discussions, finding solutions, the largest conversational format of ukraine in

the evening prime time. in general, i think we need two things. we did not start this war, but we must finish it and we must win. every thursday at 21:15 in the project velikiy lviv talks about the most important things, on the espresso tv channel. saturday political club, live air, and today we traditionally talk about everything. the main topics that concern ukrainians that concern our country, both internal and external issues, we will discuss all this, and in our vitaly is traditionally in the studio. greetings, good evening, dear viewers, and for two hours, yes, already according to our tradition, according to our tradition, for two hours we will talk about everything with vitaly

portnikov, and about the case of the murder of farion, and of course, the security block, we will touch, will be in we will also talk about the international issue, the one that concerns possible negotiations. unequivocally about the issue of the united states of america, and about the latest events regarding ukraine in poland, all this will be, but now, well, let's start, mr. vitaly, the first and probably the most resonant topic that we will talk about today is, of course, the issue of the murder of iryna farion, last week mr. vitaly and i already analyzed these issues. we already talked and mr. vitaly gave his expert assessment of this murder in general, yes, yesterday it happened,

a preliminary trial was held to choose a preventive measure for a probable suspect or a probable murderer, this is already a matter for the investigation, yes, in general, how do you assess the events , which have been developing... around this high-profile murder for the last week, because, as they say, they continue to turn ukrainian society upside down, resonate in it, and of course, this will have far-reaching consequences for our country as well. well, in any case, i think that here the investigation will really have to prove, uh, that the person who is accused of murder. iryna farion really committed this murder, this is the first. second, to understand whether this person was alone, or whether he acted in common, in some community

with some people who in one way or another manipulated, perhaps, the consciousness of this person, because, you know, when they say that there was a whole list of people whom this young man was going to kill, they mention the name of maksym bozhanskyi, the people's deputy of ukraine from the faction. servant of the people, then taking into account all these, let's say, screens from the correspondence of this young man vyacheslav zinchenko, with various representatives of far-right or neo-nazi groups, of such an anti-semitic character, frankly speaking, and in this situation it becomes absolutely logical why such a person would want to beat buzhansky in russian. and jews by origin, well, it all fits into this one jewish conspiracy theory, but then why am i apologizing for killing farion, an ethnic ukrainian woman,

speaking ukrainian, that is, explaining it by the fact that she divided people by the fact that she spoke very zealously about the importance of the ukrainian language, and then what did buzhanskyi divide, he never did not talk about it, that is, you prove that these two things, as they say, are combined. incongruous, so is this, if it is combined with incongruous, then you have to forget about this guy and about his own views, yes, and think about the federal the security service of the russian federation, and how can it think, er, that if you kill radical some conventional radical politicians from different camps, then you create chaos in this way. in society, it is necessary to kill on the one hand to quarrel, say, ukrainian-speakers and russian-speakers,

let some say that iryna farion is an icon and defender of the ukrainian language, and others say that she is a person who insulted, insulted even the people of azov, who defended her country , and after that, when all this brawl begins, you need to kill some representative. russian-speakers, so that the speakers of ukraine say: well , listen, what kind of person is this who did not even love ukraine, did not protect the ukrainian language, and they will speak russian in the whole speech, the person was a deputy and spoke from a patriotic position at least since 2022 , but you can't give her the fact that she was russian-speaking, and that's how i would say chaos, and then it's absolutely logical, because in principle, in principle, the main thing that moscow wants to achieve now, in relation not only to ukraine . in general, i would say to the surrounding world, this chaos, which is why donald trump's victory in the presidential election is needed, is not happening at all because putin is going to agree on something with trump, but because

there are... hopes, and they were, by the way, in 2016 , as we know , that trump's victory accelerates the processes of destabilization and chaos in the united states, creates lines of division between supporters of democracy and supporters of republicans, creates inappropriate positions in enemy camps, and thus gives russia greater freedom of action. so i really think if we are not talking about this single case, no. to be accepted as a single incident. i really believe that, in principle, we are now dealing with a war of a new quality. well, that is, military actions during such a war are really of great importance. but we do not pay such obvious attention to them now either. look, the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, general oleksandr syrskyi, yes. an interview

with the guardian publication, the first interview of the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, with a foreign publication, but it did not become a sensation, neither for ukrainian society, nor for the west, why? because the general basically said clear, absolutely logical things, and about the goals of the ukrainian army, and about how the war should develop, and about how western weapons are needed, and so on, and so on, and in fact this interview disappeared . from informational attention , not because it was wrong, but because it was right, correct absolutely clear words, but behind these words there is always a question, but how is the issue of ending the war decided at all, apart from the armed forces. the function of the armed forces is clear, the armed forces keep the enemy on the contact line and try, if possible, to liberate our territory. and what is happening in the country itself? that is, this question is far away. syazhna,

because this is an issue of a long-term war, but during a long-term war, unfortunately, such a serious issue as the health of society itself arises, which, perhaps, in the first 6-8 months of the war, does not seem so important, huh , well, in the first 6-8 months of the war, society rallied, as we saw, an incredible unity of people, and so in everyone, in all countries where war begins, and by the way, it does not matter whether it is right or not... the right thing is defended by the country in which people live, the main thing is this patriotic boom. do you remember how in the first months after the first world war, when it was said that this patriotism covered everyone, and even people of pacifist views from some left camps, they still became determined patriots of their countries, and this, by the way, led to serious problems right there in the left political camp, because the social democrats, who have always been there

supporters of peace, pacifists, suddenly became... such serious patriots of their country, and relatively speaking, russian social democrats harshly criticized the german ones and vice versa, and that is why people like lenin appeared, they were not social democrats, they were representatives of left radicals who said that we want the defeat of our homeland in this war, and let their country be defeated, and ours, because this is our only opportunity to come to power, the disorganization of society, and the special services of enemy countries work exactly ... with radicals, because radicals become their tools to destabilize the enemy, now they have returned to the murder of farion, this vyacheslav zinchenko, this is exactly such a tool, if you will, of defragmentation of the country and its destabilization, like volodymyr ulyanov, lenin, just on a smaller scale, mr. vitaly, really returning to the murder of iryna farion and...