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greetings, friends, live on the espresso tv channel, the second part of the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, and for the next 45 minutes we will talk about the following. in search of a negotiating point, european leaders are making proposals to start a peace process between ukraine and russia. what can be a real solution regarding the occupied territories? geopolitical prophecies orban. the hungarian prime minister predicts the disintegration of europe and the strengthening of the global south. why hasn't the european union shown hungary the door yet? demobilization on pause. the leadership of the parliament is not yet ready to consider the draft law on limiting the term of military service. will the parliamentary majority agree? about this and about.

we'll be talking about other things with our guests for the next 45 minutes, but before we start our big conversation, i suggest you take our survey, today, friends, we we ask you about this, is it time for negotiations between ukraine and russia, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, if you have a separate opinion, please leave it in the comments under this video. if you 're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote on the phones if you think it's time for a negotiation. for ukraine and russia , 0800-211-381, no, 0800-211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i want to introduce the guests of our studio today, this is yevgenia kravchuk, people's deputy from the servant of the people, deputy chairman of the parliamentary committee on humanitarian and information policy, chairman of the paria committee on culture, science, media and sports, mrs. yevhenia. i welcome you, thank you for being with

us today. good evening. rostyslav pavlenko, people's deputy of ukraine from european solidarity, member of the parliamentary committee from the parliamentary committee on education, science and innovation. mr. rostislav, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. good evening, thank you for the invitation. andrii osadchuk, people's deputy of ukraine, first deputy chairman of the parliamentary committee on law enforcement. mr. andriy, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our. program, good evening, thank you for inviting me, so ladies and gentlemen, since we are asking our tv viewers about whether they think it is time for negotiations between russia and ukraine, i will ask you about this too, today the president of finland spoke about it about the fact that it would be time for ukrainians and russians to come to an agreement, madam evgenia, do you think it is time to sit down at the negotiating table, or after all... there are some circumstances that force

ukraine to delay this negotiation process for the time being, and in particular the position of putin himself and russia. to see russia at the negotiating table is not an end in itself, although of course, any wars eventually end with some kind of peace document, and even the second world war, it also ended, well, in fact, by establishing the fact that fascist... germany capitulated , of course, that in our case for any successful results there should be two aspects of the negotiations: pressure on pain on the battlefield and ukraine's strong position on the battlefield and diplomatic pressure, the more countries join this diplomatic pressure on russia, the better, that's why at the summit. peace

and invited the maximum number of countries to join those basic rules, so basic values, on which a just peace for ukraine should be built. thank you, ms. evgenia, mr. rostislav, do you think it is time for talks between ukraine and russia? well, it seems to me that two very have not yet been fulfilled important conditions, firstly, the rashist army on the territory of ukraine, which has not yet been defeated, and secondly, the russian economy, all that is capable of supporting, efforts to attempt aggression, therefore any negotiations are meaningless and, above all, because russia... is not going to not to go to any negotiations, she sets absolutely unacceptable conditions, so it seems to me that all diplomatic efforts should now be directed at strengthening support for ukraine, assistance to ukraine, both military and financial, and increasing pressure on russia, in

first of all, sanctions, this is probably the surest way to peace. thank you, mr. rostislav, mr. andriy, well, you know, the further it goes, the more the impression that everyone is very tired. from the war, and this is true, but it seems that europe is more tired of the war than in ukraine, and it seems that the european politicians are more tired of the war than the ukrainians and ukraine and the armed forces. i would highly recommend to all european politicians who utter the word negotiations, and who utter the phrase it's time to negotiate in ukraine and so on, to ask ourselves whether they have done everything in the last 29 months to force... to force putin and putin's russia to back down, whether they have done everything to make the sanctions effective, or whether they have done everything to ukraine received all the necessary resources to confront a much stronger and more powerful enemy than

ukraine is today. and we know the answer to these questions. no, it has not been done until today. and at the same time, you and i all know that there is only one thing that vladimir is ready for putin. it is for the capitulation of ukraine and together with ukraine the west, he has spoken about this very clearly several times in recent months, in his imagined negotiations, this is, at least, he puts on the table a booklet with the constitution of the russian federation written on it, and demands that everyone recognize it, in fact requires the whole world to humble itself before him and to perform, excuse me, in the toilet, such a concept as international law. therefore, these are all manipulations that in no way lead to the establishment of peace. in europe, so we have to be very strict in our position, at the same time, i understand how difficult it is zelenskyi, i understand how much pressure is being put on the bank, so that ukraine also, as if in shame, demonstrates readiness for negotiations, because the wider world has the impression that only china and russia want

peace, while ukraine and the west want war, which of course, it is absolutely the opposite, but at the same time, i think, zelensky is simply forced to say that we are ready for some victories. ready for some kind of dialogue, exclusively as a response to this pressure, which he and the bank are subjected to on a daily basis, probably, but there are no signs, no grounds, no points that could lead to negotiations, really negotiations, i do not see yet, and probably simply because there are none, but the president of finland, alexander stup, whom i mentioned, stated in an interview with the french to the lemont newspaper that the conditions for peace negotiations between ukraine and... russia have already been created, i quote the president of finland, a country that helps us and supports us in this difficult time, quite actively, as oleksandr stup says: now we are approaching the moment when we should start negotiations the reality is that

china, the countries of the global south and russia should be involved in these negotiations. at the same time, in an interview with the japanese tv channel nhk, president zelensky stated that ukraine... is preparing a peace plan until the end of november this year, it is understood, but so far cannot respond to calls for a ceasefire, let's listen to what the president of ukraine said: patience, help and diplomatic pressure, these are the three factors for a just end to the war. if the us and european countries maintain unity, it will be additional pressure and show moscow that it has there is no chance. perhaps you know something about the new plan, the peace plan of zelenskyi, because i remember that in june 2024, we and the world stopped at three points out of zelenskyi's 10 points, seven points were transferred from this meeting in switzerland, and it is not clear ,

are now the seven points that have been carried over to november, or will the new plan coming in november be completely new? no, he is the one... it is based on those 10 points that were voiced and about which the whole world knows, and by the way, it’s good that right now in the year 22 these points were fixed, because in fact the support of the countries that signed the communique after bürgenstock and our partners in general is based on them, yes, that is, they clearly understand what these positions are important for ukraine. what will happen before the second summit, well, at least what is the preliminary plan, really three points were chosen as the first, because they are no longer so unifying, well, who is against that? food security or against the return of hostages to their homes,

including kidnapped ukrainian children, such working groups will now be held at the level advisors, political leaders, and they will be on the topics of these three points, first, if i am not mistaken, in qatar on non-greek security, then turkey is seafaring and food security, and canada will host a group that, for ... deals with the return, or there writing plan, the return of all prisoners, and prisoners of war, and civilians, and children who were abducted by russia, but also the next step will be to work on seven other points, and here i hope that there will be communication from the president's office, or rather i i am sure that there will be communication, because all these meetings, especially when the meetings at the level of advisers in... they are quite public, in parallel, of course, that ukraine is interested

in strengthening its defense, strengthening air defense, and we are already not only promised, but also given additional air defense systems, and of course that part of the strengthening of air defense will be the front f16s, and of course, that, in general, it is necessary... to pay in the following years , and it is very important that a decision was made at the j7 level to transfer 50 billion, which is actually being formed from advance receipts from taxation of frozen assets, and it is very important that they can be spent on defense, thank you ms. evgenia, mr. rostyslav, obviously this agreement, well, we now call it a peace agreement or an agreement on peace in ukraine or on achieving peace in ukraine,

it will obviously have some legal and legal status, and obviously, if this is an international agreement, then obviously it will also pass through the verkhovna rada of ukraine, is it fair that at the current stage in the preparation of this document, people's deputies of ukraine, in a broad sense of this word, no five. there are not three people's deputies involved in the formation of any proposals for peace proposals of ukraine or negotiating proposals of ukraine? well, it seems to me that , in general, the verkhovna rada, all factions, and all factions that support ukraine and the european euro-atlantic choice, could be involved and work effectively, because this vacanali, which occurs with the non-release of deputies. some completely illogical and illegal restrictions, they actually limit

not so much deputies, not so many deputies, but ukraine's opportunities, because now we are on at the stage that the demonstration of unity, indeed, even this broadcast of ours shows that in these issues, regardless of the faction, we all support one single pro-ukrainian position, but this unity should be demonstrated externally, and all the representatives here... of these factions are are doing, and this would be an absolutely more effective means of conveying ukraine's position, conveying the points that peace for ukraine is a return to its territorial integrity, this is, after all, this is also in the plan of president zelensky, regarding the restoration of territorial integrity, throwing russian troops beyond internationally recognized borders. the actual return of russia, compensation by russia

for the damage caused, the responsibility of russian war criminals, all this must be achieved, but we saw that during this peace summit, the countries of the so-called global south, well, they did not really support it, because the number of signatories, let's say, a significantly smaller number of participants. eh, and even those three points, which really few people would seem to be alarmed by, did not receive the support of everyone participants, and eh... i think that it is worth simply giving up some kind of fetishization, some summits and other things, to work very clearly on positions that really lead to ukrainian victory, this is strengthening support for ukraine, this is strengthening support for the armed forces of ukraine, and this is increasing pressure on russia, sanctions pressure, first of all,

diplomatic pressure on all fronts, in order for russia to understand. the inevitability of the scenario of leaving ukraine and suffering the consequences of his aggression, because everything else simply pushes putin to understand that he is still a little he will press, he will advance another 2 km in the donetsk region, and the west will fall at his feet, and this is what andriy said, yes, he will be able to simply abuse the russian word, yes, abuse international law, so that he does not succeed , there is only one way to peace, it is... the unification of all democratic countries, and for this we need all pro-ukrainian and pro-european factions to be able to participate in clarifying the ukrainian position abroad. but i wonder if hungary can be considered a democratic country, where prime minister viktor orbán talks about that ukraine will never become a member of the eu and nato,

and that global power in the world will soon shift from the irrational... west to asia and russia, by the way, let's listen to how he says it. what we are facing is actually a world system change. this process starts from asia. briefly and crudely speaking, in the next long, long decades, and maybe even centuries, since the previous world system also existed for 500 years. asia will be the dominant center of the world. china, india, pakistan, indonesia and so on. with on the other hand, the behavior of the event is unclear and unpredictable. his behavior is irrational and he cannot handle the situation. mr. andriy, orbán's position was clear, but it was not so openly pro-russian, because here it is clear that it is also about china, i would

say so, and pro-russian and pro-chinese, because maybe hungary is such a... window for xi jinping to europe, for the chineseization of europe, but in this case we are interested in whether this country and this prime minister are part of the event, the democratic event, for which we we rely on, i think, now with orbán and with hungary we have huge problems, not with us, but with the european union itself, and in my opinion the drama is that the last decades... the european union, european countries, european political and public organizations, they were built on the primacy of tolerance and respect for everyone's opinion. this over-liberal approach, it became dominant in europe, and it's not really camilfo there to cut someone off, to not give someone a word, even when people say some strange

things, and europe has come so far in this tolerance, in this liberality. that she doesn't really see or doesn't want to admit that in orbán's actions, especially in the last month, and even two years before that, there is clearly no other thought, but betrayal, betrayal of everything that is written in all the documents of the european union, which concerns political issues, betrayal of all democratic principles and betrayal of the common position of the european union. about dictatorships, about the russian federation, about china, iran, and so on. this is betrayal. and unfortunately, the european union got itself into this one scheme, unanimity in making political decisions, which actually makes it impossible to quickly solve critical issues for itself, which weakens itself, because the issue of hungary must

be solved already, both at the level of the european union and at the level of nato, because the longer it will last, .. the weaker the european union will be both internally and externally, the fewer chances there will be that the european union will be able to defend itself in any way at least, to play at least some role in the world. therefore, i really expect that in the coming weeks, maybe months, now, on alas, august is starting, no matter what, it is the holiday period, even if stones will fall from the sky, but european politicians ... will go on vacation, all offices will be closed, because it is customary in europe, but i really hope that those calls that are already coming from poland, from some baltic countries, will be... accumulated in brussels, because i also know that a lot of bureaucrats of the european parliament and in brussels in general are very dissatisfied with orbán's position and

orbán's activities, but this dissatisfaction must be transformed into absolutely clear and tough actions, at least the withdrawal of hungary from the presidency of the council of the eu, prematurely, that it was a clear signal to everyone that such actions are unacceptable, and at the most, that this scandal around orcha. materialized into some kind of change in the rules in the eu, because it is simply impossible to live with this consensus, this liberality and the so-called respect for everyone's opinion, even if he is completely insane, or he is a pure spy for some external enemies, so i am very i expect that in the next month or two we will see a tough reaction of the european union to the policy that conducted by orban in ukraine, in the world and in europe. ukraine has also taken several steps in the direction of hungary and slovakia, because the oil, the oil pipeline that went from russia through ukraine

to europe, now does not supply the oil of the russian lukoll, well, at least this is what another friend of ours says, a friend in quotes, this is robert fitso , the prime minister of slovakia, he says that during a meeting with the ambassador of ukraine myroslav... an astronomer, he threatened him with consequences if kyiv does not restore this transit, then this will happen. let's listen to phys. further application of this senseless sanction it will only harm ukraine, slovakia and hungary, and it will practically not affect russia. if the transit of russian oil through ukraine is not restored in the near future, slov naft will not continue the supply of diesel fuel to ukraine, which it covers. a tenth of ukrainian consumption. mrs. evgenia, obviously, in this situation, we are not talking about ukraine, which robert

fitze mentions, but about the fact that europe, through slovakia or through hungary, still consumes and takes this russian oil despite all the warnings, despite that russia is waging an aggressive war against of ukraine. are you in international structures, international...organizations during business trips, do you communicate with slovaks and hungarians, what do they say in general, well, that is, do they share this opinion or not, do they condemn, they say that fico and orban , in general, they have their own interests that are tied to russian oil and russian gas, that's why we, we only support you politically, well, it's interesting to see the reaction of brussels, or what works well. in the european union, it's such a bureaucratic long procedure, and today was simply wonderful the comment of the spokesperson, who commented on what

the decision of the european union will be, because fico and orban actually ran to brussels, to say that this violates the agreements there, go, talk to ukraine, you call from brussels and tell ukraine to allow this transit, and her things on... said that the european commission will make a decision when it is ready to make a decision, and no one will be in a hurry, obviously, because in fact there is really irritation, because a lot of european union countries have actually refused to import russian oil, they well, in fact, they are like that certain specific conditions, special conditions that orbán and fito negotiated for themselves, and what if they threatened there. are forging certain decisions within the european union, so no one will be in a hurry, because other countries have lost something economically, but they said that we will not

take this oil, it smells of blood there and it is wrong, so in fact, we will observe another one here such a ping pong between slovakia, hungary and officials from brussels. if we talk about opposition deputies, the situation is certainly better in slovakia, there is a strong opposition, recently we we just had a meeting with them, and they are much more euro-optimistic, and the previous president, suzanne chapanova, spoke in the parliament, and the decision was taken by that government on the supply of weapons, and now the minister of defense is on the way. they even try to drag him to court, saying that he made a decision there when he was an acting minister, not a full-fledged minister. in general, of course

it is necessary. work with the opposition in these countries and still send signals to the people and establish cooperation, at least there though in some kind of cooperation between the bordering regions, because in the end, both in hungary and in slovakia, unfortunately, there will be many opportunities to slow down our european integration process, well, mr. rostyslav, it is clear that hungary. and slovakia in this case have economic interests here, and it is clear that they are putting pressure on ukraine, trying to put pressure on, as in the case of poland, the minister of defense of poland says that until the ukrainians apologize for the volyn tragedy, we, we will not let the ukrainians to of the european union. that's what i want ask, listen, our neighbors on all sides constantly demand something from us, or play

against us, or... in the east and in the north, our neighbors are co-aggressors in the russian-ukrainian war, these hungarians and slovaks also play along with putin, the poles have their own any opinion, what do you think about this, well, regarding this statement, first of all, there is a coalition government in poland, and this is a representative of one of the coalition partners, so i understand that it was there. or about some internal political reasons , i wanted to somehow stand out, say something to be noticeable, but in general here i would three he said such things, yes, the first is that ukraine really needs to use all opportunities in order to work with all layers and strata of those societies, with the authorities, with the opposition, with journalists, with leaders of public opinion and convey its position.

because otherwise it turns out to be such a monologue and otherwise various politicians try to show themselves as a big supporter of their country somewhere at the expense of the ukrainian position, it is necessary to explain why this is not so. the second story, i absolutely agree that the position of brussels is very important, and it is not easy there they postponed the decision, they said that they did not immediately support these claims, that bratislava. that of budapest with regard to ukraine, and in fact they also turned on the rear a little at that time, somehow the degree of their statements fell, well, it is true, then they decided to move to some bilateral threats, but then here is the second direction for you, because slovakia, black hungary can and should be to find, in fact , a secret in the context of brussels, in the context of some joint decisions with brussels

officials, especially for... that is where the formation of the new composition ends the european commission, by now all their political perturbations will be settled, and from september the political season begins, where you can and should actually put people like orban and fico in their place. well, the third story is still finding those opportunities that can be used to compensate for what is obviously in the interests of ukraine to stop. the supply of russian oil to europe and in particular regarding hungary and slovakia, but we have to withstand this period when we are threatened with all kinds of threats, but also to say that look, dear neighbors, there are things where we can interact and be mutually beneficial, then let's put this nonsense aside, and finally move on to things where we

can definitely be partners. if these three components will play together, i think that we will be able to move away from this story that there is an enemy in the east and some incomprehensible processes in the west. mr. andrii, what does ukraine need in order to be more persuasive regarding our western partners, individually, and to convince other partners, because these partners are not our partners at all, but play... on putin's side. a more professional team is needed in the government. we need more quality people who represent ukraine. it is necessary to understand that volodymyr zelensky cannot pull the entire international community on himself. it is necessary not to be equal, as in the president's office, who are simply afraid when someone outside the president's team enters into some contacts in the west in europe or america. it is necessary to understand how actually...