the large-scale exchange of prisoners between russia and the countries of the west is already called one of the largest since the end of the cold war. who was released, how will this affect the relationship between the united states and russia? we talk about it on the air. bbc live from london, i'm yevgenia shedlovska. details of this large-scale exchange are still emerging, such as the names of those who have already been exchanged. but do you know where this exchange took place? in turkey. so, the russian government plane landed at the ankara airport and several more planes took off after it. as a matter of fact, the media had already informed the day before that such an exchange was being prepared. there were various signals, such as prisoners in russia began to be transported to other places. however, now the press service of turkish president recep erdogan was the first to confirm. the exchange took place.

a total of 26 people from seven countries were exchanged: the usa, germany, poland, slovenia, norway, russia and belarus. 10 people were transported to russia, including two minors. germany has 13, the united states - three. these are the data of turkey, which became the platform for this great exchange. who did russia free? 16 people, three american citizens. this is journalist wall street journal evan hershkovich, sentenced in russia for espionage. alsu kurmashova, a journalist of the radio liberty tataroshkir service, was met. by the way, on the same day as hershkovich, but for spreading so -called fakes about the russian army. and another released paul whelan, a former marine, he was detained even earlier in 2018 and also convicted of espionage. and also, among the released politicians and publicist volodymyr karamurza, who has a prominent residence in the united states. he was convicted in russia for spreading fakes about the army, cooperation with unwanted organization and treason. president joe biden said that these four are unjustly imprisoned in russia. and

are finally returning home, and biden also revealed more details about who else russia released, in addition to the named four, these are the only names that have been officially announced, and five more german citizens and seven russian citizens, who, according to the american president, were political prisoners in their country. who these other released are not yet officially named, in general biden called this exchange a diplomatic breakthrough and made such a statement together with his relatives dismissed in the white house. in just a few hours, we will welcome home our fellow americans. we look forward to it. so thank you, thank you, thank you. it's a good day. a historic exchange, that's how they talk about it in the white house. diplomats, government, ministries and officials, conduct a much wider exchange. for example, evgenia karamurza, the wife of volodymyr karamurza, always made it clear what she was deciding.

advocates the return from russian prisons of russian political prisoners, especially those with serious illnesses, and it appears that the volume and the scale of this exchange has been gradually expanded, this is a huge event, unprecedented, and i think for many families who are closely watching this, this is a moment that they did not dare to believe that it would eventually happen. i have spoken to several relatives, so far no one wants to talk publicly until their relatives get off the plane. so, russia handed over the political prisoners it received, some already from... thus , germany confirmed that it had extradited vadym krasikov, he was convicted of murdering a former chechen field commander, and the media called him the killer on a bicycle. he drove up to his victim in the middle of the day in the center of berlin. german prosecutors claimed that he was a colonel of the russian fsb. in total, 10 people, including two children, are flying to russia as part of this exchange, according to turkey. the details will still appear, but what is already known about it in moscow? - says bbc correspondent steve rosenberg. it is interesting that at a time of great tension

between russia and the west due to the war in ukraine , there are still open channels of communication. between moscow and the united states, between moscow and europe. this was not a big surprise, because we knew that there were talks about a prisoner exchange between russia and the west. for example, in december 2022, already after the start of a full-scale russian invasion, an exchange of prisoners took place. then they traded brittany greiner, an american basketball star who was in prison due to narcotic substances on the imprisoned arms dealer viktor but. and we knew that moscow and washington had entered into negotiations about evan hershkovich, about field vilen, two citizens of the united states, whom the united states officially are called wrongfully imprisoned. paul wheelen spent more than 5 years in a russian prison. this is an indicator that the exchange of prisoners is not an easy matter. it is not always easy to bring people back home. so we know that negotiations took place, we know that volodymyr. putin and other

senior russian officials have hinted publicly that they are open to it, and vladimir putin has so far made it clear, without naming names, who russia wants back, vadim. krasikov, a russian agent who was serving a life sentence in germany for murder. now krasykov will be returned to russia. and i think that the kremlin will consider this a successful work, consider the mission accomplished and consider it a victory. and now there is information that putin has signed a decree on pardoning 13 people, among them, in particular, the politician ilya yashin, that is, there is a list of 13 people. it is important that... turkish intelligence played a role in this exchange, and we talk about it in detail, we are contacted by a columnist from the london school of economics, maria zolkina, i welcome you on the air, let's start with the role of turkey, why exactly ankara - it is a pad where seven planes land from different countries and this large-scale exchange is taking place? i congratulate you, well, because

turkey first wanted to play the role of a mediator in certain issues in the negotiations between russia and the west, and she tried to play this role already in the 22nd year, and she managed to do it within the framework of almost a year. the so-called grain agreement, and from that time the role of turkey, in fact, as a possible mediator to find certain common denominators, it fell sharply, sharply decreased, narrowed this role, and this was actually a chance, because for such delicate diplomatic things, countries that will be acceptable to one side and to the other, there were many sides here for... for western countries, turkey is their partner as a member of nato, as a partner of the united states in the region, for russia , turkey is a partner, given its economic interest, actually maintaining ties with the russian federation

even after the 22nd year, so it was logical enough for all compromises, plus the serious interest of turkey itself to enter the arena again as a certain mediator, that is, erdogan, he is such a mediator who can. .. to be friends and with the united states, and with russia, and you already mentioned his role as a mediator at the beginning of russia's full-scale war against ukraine, could his role now increase in that? it can grow only in relation to point agreements, but let's be aware that erdogan is not the only leader, and turkey is not the only country that is actively trying to be a certain mediator, big... political agreements that would in principle completely complete are impossible today this war, and therefore the bet is placed on some separate agreements, for example, qatar is dealing with the issue of returning children from the russian federation, turkey was dealing with the grain agreement, china is trying to promote

its potential role as a mediator in the issue of achieving the peace regime, which for china is more important than the full settlement of the russian-ukrainian conflict. that is , turkey is not the only one in this desire in the international arena, but for them it is a very , very advantageous position, because it is, firstly, in principle at the crossroads between the eastern and western world, and secondly, what else is possible more importantly, erdogan personally for all the years of his rule, and turkey as a state, respectively, under his leadership, promote the idea of ​​regional leadership and regional conflict resolution. that is, turkey, in principle, believes that everything that happens in the black sea region should be decided by the countries of the black sea region, with the minimum possible involvement of other players from other regions of the world, so turkey is critically interested in, even if

tactically, its role in certain agreements within the russian-ukrainian framework conflict or within the framework of the confrontation between russia and the west, so that this role, it was visible, because it is. greece is asserting itself as a leader in the black sea region, well, we heard, president biden said that this is a happy day, but in general, how can this exchange affect relations between russia and the united states, is it actually such a warming? i wouldn't rate it, it's so optimistic, it's really a big exchange, a landmark, but the united states often in its history and even in recent years went on similar exchanges with countries with which it has very... acute confrontation, let's recall the liberation, for example, of citizens from iran, who were also in prison, er, that is, for american diplomacy, this is one of the elements, as well as between russia itself and the united states, there have already been less large-scale, but exchanges, there is no need

to overestimate, this issue is beneficial, mutually beneficial for both parties, but it is not about warming, but rather about rational and... interest, because on the one hand, for the united states, for example, and for a number of other countries, it was important to extract their own citizens, and even some citizens with... that citizenship, who have, for example, karamurza, the citizenship of great britain and the russian federation, because they are symbols of such hope for the democratic future of russia, but for the russians there were equally serious motives, for them it was fundamentally important to release their agents and their spies who were imprisoned abroad. thank you, maria zolkina, a researcher at the london school of economics, was with us on the air, and just now we saw footage showing... russian television, dismissal political prisoners in russia as part of this

large-scale exchange between russia and western countries. it's a prisoner exchange not seen since the cold war, and turkey has become the site of this complex logistical and diplomatic operation, and this is how the bbc security columnist frank cartner summarizes the exchange. it is not by chance that we are looking at the frame today. ankara airport, because the turkish intelligence mit plays a decisive role in this. they say they were involved as mediators and negotiators from start to finish. so ankara is successful a place to receive planes and exchange people. according to them, a total of seven planes were involved in the exchange, and although turkish intelligence takes credit for this exchange with its statements, diplomats and spies in many countries are involved in it. this exchange deal is extraordinary on three levels: the first is the large number of people

being exchanged, over 20. and on the other hand, there are many countries involved, many components, many subtleties, many elements that could potentially go wrong. but to me the most unusual thing about it all is that it is an exchange prisoners between russia and the west in the style of the cold war. the fact that it takes place against the background of the worst relations between. russia and the west since 1991, since the end of the cold war, and at a time when there is a full-scale war in ukraine. one of the really decisive meetings in this case took place last week in ankara, between the head of turkish intelligence mit and sergei naryshkin, the head of russia's foreign intelligence service. it may seem strange, because turkey is a nato country, but turkey has... very good relations with russia. when russia invaded ukraine in february 2022, many

assumed that this act of aggression was condemned by the whole world. first of all, all of europe, the west, nato allies, etc. however, some countries said: "you know, russia is too important and big, so we will think about it." turkish president recep taygan kept communication lines open with his russian counterpart. likewise, "important countries in the middle east, such as qatar, the united arab emirates and saudi arabia. so ankara is a logical place to exchange, because mit turkish intelligence played a key role behind the scenes. what took place behind the scenes, this information will appear in the near future, and read about this large-scale exchange on our website bbc.ua in this article, the largest exchange since the cold war, who was returned by russia and... the west and in order not to miss the most important news, subscribe to our pages in

social networks. i say goodbye to you until tomorrow, see you. this week, president zelenskyy gave a long program interview in which, in particular, i quote, he said the following: a just peace for ukraine is to restore all territorial integrity, and this is not a sign, it does not mean. that only thanks to weapons today we stand at the front, while russia wants to fight, this and other theses

really shook everyone, in particular, if china wants, it can force russia to stop the war, and how to encourage china to do so, about negotiations, about the situation with f -16, who are theoretically already working on the territory of our country, we are talking today on the air of the project velikiy lviv says, and we congratulate all viewers of the tv channel who are joining... our live broadcast, we congratulate you, glory to ukraine to the heroes, glory, and we continue our a conversation with vitaly portnikov, this whole conversation will be on our youtube channel says velikiy lviv, you can go there. it will be convenient for you to watch it in the full version. the kremlin commented on the idea of ​​the participation of the russian federation in the peace summit and the possibility of negotiations, they say there that they do not trust the ukrainian authorities and currently do not participate in the preparation for this peace, well , these are also some of their statements that they

make from time to time. but still, in view of what zelenskyi spoke about in the french media, and... what is the situation in your opinion now, how close are we to the fact that these negotiations are even possible? of course, we question their need, but in your opinion, mr. vitaly, what is the current situation? it seems to me that i was just one of those who always said that even with the exit of the ukrainian army to the borders in 1991, we may not finish. because in order to end the war , it is not necessary to resolve the issue of territorial integrity, we need a political solution that will stop russian aggression against ukraine, then we can of course discuss the situation of territorial integrity, but it seems to me that that the most important thing is the question of how to stop the war on any contact line at all, because i want to remind you that the border of 1991 is now just a contact line for the russians,

because in their constitution donetsk, luhansk, kherson, zaporizhia regions, ukraine and crimea, as a part of russia, we can spit on it, of course, but they are ready to defend this schizophrenia by force, and that is why it matters, this is the first moment, the second moment, i think i spoke again in 2022 , and i was not the first to say that, me it seems that the second, the first was pavlo klimkin, that the real way out of the situation, the end of the war, could not be the restoration of territorial integrity, providing ukraine with a security guarantee. from nato, at least with an invitation to nato and the provision of such security guarantees from the united states and other nuclear nato member states, for that territory controlled by the legitimate ukrainian authorities, or at least for territory not claimed by the russian federation, if the west fears a direct confrontation with the russian federation if russia does not claim everything

the territory of ukraine, except for four oblasts and the autonomous republic of crimea, is not for this. territories could be extended a security guarantee, and i believed and continue to believe that this would not escalate the war, but stop the war, because if russia realized that it could not take all of ukraine without direct conflict with nato, it would stopped because all these four regions and crimea are needed exclusively as a bridgehead for the destruction of ukraine itself. now further, i do not really understand why we are even discussing the end of the war in within the framework of territorial integrity. this is a very dangerous idea about the intentions of the enemy, because it creates the false impression that if we fulfill the russian conditions and give up our own territories, then the war will end, and that it turns out that russia is fighting for the territory, for crimea, for donetsk, luhansk, kherson, and zaporizhzhia regions, although it accidentally protects all these territories,

relatively speaking, simply because its troops managed to capture part of those territories, if it captured them. donetsk, luhansk, kherson, zaporizhzhia regions, but conditionally speaking of kherson, mykolaiv and odesa, she talked about these regions, but donetsk and luhansk regions would not be of interest to her as a territorial compromise, so there is no need to invent, the enemy's goal is the destruction of ukrainian statehood, the territories are captured by 2024, this is a bridgehead for further destruction of ukraine and its destabilization, to buy back territory from russia. won't work, you can agree on one thing, about which i always say: is it possible to end the war, so the ukrainians have the opportunity to end the war, the conditions the end of the war is dictated to them, the verkhovna rada of ukraine must meet, make a decision on the accession of ukrainian lands to the russian federation and dissolve itself, because there will no longer be any ukraine, but

only regions of the russian federation. the next day after this resolution of the verkhovna rada, there will be no flights over ukraine. missiles, drones will not fly, the russian army, the national guard will enter here, clean it of nationalists and extremists, and there will be a calm, peaceful, happy life, like in belgorod oblast or kurdistan oblast. it maybe. there is no other option for the end of the war, if you do not want ukraine, where you are, to become the territory of the russian federation, if you do not want russian flags flying on your houses, if you do not want your children to speak russian , to... teach russian history in your schools, conditionally saying that you simply became russians, because russia will not repeat any of the mistakes of 1920, there will no longer be any ukrainians here and there never will be, ukrainians will remain. in a foreign land, like the jews remained in a foreign land after the destruction of the temple of jerusalem by emperor tsito, here is a beautiful analogy, were there jews, they were, but

not in judea, judea was even renamed palestine and the world still calls it that, so they will call it little russia, there will be little russia, and there will be no ukrainians, if you are not ready for this, then accept it as a fact that you will have to fight back until the exhaustion of russia, and again, no... i don’t know how many years, i don’t know how much human lives, money will have to be paid for it, i don’t know what the territory will be as a result will be to be controlled by the legitimate ukrainian government, but i offer a simple alternative: either join russia, or fight for russia to stop, is it possible to reach an agreement here in the middle, well, it is interesting, of course, the question is, but where is this middle, i would like to know where it is and... and i think that everyone should answer this question for themselves, because we have an idea that appears all the time in the statements of politicians, and in the statements

of ordinary people, and in journalistic discussions, oh, come on we will give them the territory, and they will detach from us, well no they will disengage, well, they will not disengage, because they are not attached to anyone, they are fighting for the creation of a war, for the creation, for the restoration of their empire, they believe that if there is no ukraine. of this empire, they cannot exist, in 1900-91, after our referendum on independence, the president of the russian federation, boris yeltsin, arrived in the bialowieza forest and for many hours, 12, convinced the president of ukraine, leonid kravchuk, to enter into a renewed union with russia and other former soviet republics, and only when president kravchuk told him: "boris, i don't know who gorbachev is, i don't know where the cream is, i know that i have the ukrainian people who voted

for me and for the act of independence, i i have to follow this, and then boris yeltsin said, well, leonid, then let's sign the agreement that there will be no soviet union, but a commonwealth of independent states, but he did not tell him: "well, then i went to create a union with someone else, if you don't want, leonid." and you can be an ordinary independent state, goodbye, goodbye, no, the russians will never agree to their state existing without an alliance with ukraine, there will never be a day in this world when the russians will agree to this, at least the current generations of ukrainians, those who are alive, you yourselves, your children, your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren, whoever has them, will not wait for this, so we cannot deny them the only thing. because they are sure of it and do not need to be convinced, this is their national philosophy, this is their imperial philosophy, precisely because it is such a philosophy, ukraine was a colony of russia for ten years, and i do not

apologize, on the contrary, if the ukrainians had such a philosophy, they would have russia in power, and not the russians ukraine, so there is no need to try to convince them and come to an agreement with them, or we are with them, from them we will fight back, or the ukrainian state will cease to exist in this world, nothing is necessary. fiction, do not look for a black cat for some compromises in a dark room, this black cat does not exist, this black cat was not born, and stop thinking that you are fighting putin and his ambitions. putin is perfect the exponent of the national desires and dreams of the entire multi-million russian people. this russian people went to siberia and destroyed everyone who lives there and has a huge territory, reached the far east and destroyed everyone who was there, went to the center... asia and destroyed turkmens and kazakhs, uzbeks and tajiks, everyone the people of central asia have their own story about how they rebelled and were destroyed, we just never took much

interest in it, not to mention the fact that very often cossack regiments took part in it, who i wonder which cossack regiments entered the crimea and destroyed its statehood, it was not the russian army, these were real cossack regiments that were ready to serve the empire at that time, and... and the russians were ready to use their military power to increase own territory, and it is fortunate that we stopped being a tool of the empire, but again, if we do not want to be a tool of the empire, we have to fight back from this empire, well, what else can we invent? i can, of course, tell a huge number of some political profits there, i i know how to do this, like any journalist, i know how to do it, i don't do it because i don't know how, but because i want to be honest with people who became... contemporaries of one of the most serious trials of the ukrainian people in its generally centuries-long history. thank you, vitaly portnikov, for your honesty and for your truth, which maybe,

let's say this, is not for... wait is convenient for everyone who watches our broadcast, but it very often comes true, because well, we have to get used to living in the world, although i it seems that this process is already happening, in which this story in two or three weeks and everything will be over, is already in the distant past, and it definitely does not work. vitaly pornikov, journalist, writer, tv presenter, publicist and political commentator, traditionally started the broadcast of the project veliky lviv says, there are already guests in our large studio, so we are with. we are moving there, we are moving and ready to introduce those guests who are with us in the studio and will participate in our conversation, discussion, let's see how it will turn out. serhiy baranov is with us today, a major, secretary of the military selection commission institute of tank troops of the national

technical university. candidate of legal sciences, military-political expert, member of the aspen club of ukraine. good evening. olena trygub is with us, general secretary of the independent anti-corruption commission, member of the anti-corruption council under the ministry of defense of ukraine. congratulations good evening. congratulations to taras stetsky, you are a people's deputy of ukraine for five convocations. good evening. vasyl pavlyuk, also with us, diplomat, consul general of ukraine in lublin in 2015-2022. good evening, yuriy podlisny, head of the department of political science at the kyiv catholic university. good evening, mr. andreykiv, let's start with you, and maybe it's hype, but it's definitely a hot topic. today, a segment of the ukrainian internet is actively talking about it. bloomberg added fuel to the fire, let's say, with his information that ukraine received the first

batch of f-16 fighter jets. uh, blumber writes about this, citing his own sources. the exact number of planes is unknown, it has not been officially announced at this time. at the same time , various memes appear where f-16s fly over lviv, above the town hall, but nevertheless, foreign media claim that these f-16s could already be used as an air defense of our state, and if this is true, of course, we are always happy when our air defense. aggravated by external factors, external factors, what can we say about the f-16s? we can talk about the fact that the war is entering a new level, and it is the probable use of the f-16, you know, that is such a military break with the soviet umbilical cord, because we are beginning to use not only ground forms warfare, as well as already...

ovo-air means, in addition, it should be noted that if these f16s are there, and they are obviously not there for a day or two, a little even more, we can safely talk about it . this is a completely different philosophy of warfare, why, because this is the newest weapon modified for their multifunctional use, and one of the means of use is the correlation of the activity of aircraft of this type with other means of radar control and guidance. namely the avax systems, their prototypes are the russian a50 aircraft, which the ukrainian armed forces have already successfully shot down and damaged a significant number, that is , these are aircraft that can perform a very large number of tasks, multifunctional diversion of air combat, to the destruction of ground, sea and other targets, if , as stated, they will be added to called jazz, these are prototypes...