or they are foreign journalists or public figures, what can you say about this great exchange, does this mean that the western world is starting some kind of dialogue with russia, because russia is such a country that can endlessly take hostages, journalists, public figures, politicians, then endlessly exchange them for their killers, spies, who are caught everywhere. to the world, well, first of all, it is much more pleasant to look into this detective story from kyiv than to take part in it personally, well, that's me, you introduced me as a former laskor in moscow, i remembered that well there were interesting moments, and when you came home alive and well, even during the war, you realize that home is better than, than not home, yes, ah, as for ... these

stories and the exchange in general, well, as a matter of fact, what we can see, putin once again demonstrated his strength, as he actually demonstrates in the war with ukraine, what i mean, and it is easier for him and for the russians as a whole, because they do not care about their people in general, and it is clear that the american, the british and any representatives of other... states, for them the governments will sink to the sa at the last moment, well, just like the germans changed from oleksandr lukashenka, and this simply needs to be recorded, because their approach is such that, well , it is in fact the same as in the war with us, only different, different proportions, a different number of people, he it doesn't matter how many of them there will either be a female passenger or die. and the western government does not,

as for whether negotiations between russia and the west have actually begun, well then i can say either the west and russia, then and then we started negotiations with russia, because we also exchange our people, and this is done enough regularly, although i was recently at the pow headquarters building , there are a lot of women with placards that... we have to record, and i think we just have to congratulate those people who have gained their freedom, including citizens of russia, who have spoken out and are speaking out against putin, we are always skeptical here, but... nevertheless, a person

who, for his beliefs and views, got into putin's carriage, into the russian carriage, i think he deserves in respect, tim more all these people are categorically against the war, well it is in general, i would miss this story in this way. putin's press secretary piskov, after this exchange had already taken place, said that let all enemies who left russia remain there, and not enemies return to the country. well, here is such a short formula from piskov. another person who has opposed the russian regime for a long time and is in the territory of the ukrainian state is ilya panamaryov, a former deputy of the state duma of the russian federation. on this night, from july 31 on on august 1, an enemy drone damaged his house in the kyiv region, and as the former state duma deputy himself wrote, literally in the past. that is

, from the 30th to the 31st, three shaheds were shot down over his house or next to his house, and he thought that it was an accident, what ponomarov is writing now, this thing burst very hard right in front of the house, i mean the drone itself, and a bunch flew at me debris, the fire was quickly extinguished by the security guards who came, but there was a lot of blood and i had to go to the hospital quickly, thank god. and ilya ponomarov, his wife, alive, healthy, wounded, you see, wounded in the face, and here i have a question, this, this case, it means that any person who opposes russia in one way or another can end up under hit by this strike drone, and anyone who publicly says that russia...

terrorist putin is a criminal, of course, public figures can fall under these drones, or is there a recipe how to secure it in general? from this, there is a recipe, and i will gladly answer your question, sergey, but let's start with the recipe, yes, you have to kill russians, to kill russians, their leaders, no one has come up with anything else, those who, therefore, promote war against ukraine, the entire military leadership, putin, medvedev and the rest, these are all legitimate goals, and they must be destroyed, and look, look, it will come peace and justice, in fact, everything is very... simple, as for ilya panamerov, he has ukrainian citizenship, so it is clear that he is one of those who moved to rashi, he calls a spade a spade , exactly what i just said, that all these stories about peaceful protests and sitting on a bottle, that's it

at least stupid, and at least, and at most simply dangerous, because all these people were listed by russian collaborators. the center for combating extremism and then transplanted one by one, so it seems clear to me in this case that ilya panomerov is not an ordinary citizen of ukraine after all, well, this is a war, he is a person who makes sense, and the main sense is actually weapons and resistance with... weapons in hand, but let's be honest, well, it's clear that you have to earn three shahedes and a fourth for a snack, as they say, but we we all live in such conditions, whether you are in kyiv or in some other place, the chance that

something heavy will fly to you and explode, explode, he, he is not zero, well, it should be said that ilya ponomarov was... involved in the creation of the battalion free russia is also related to the russian volunteer movement, that is, the russians who are fighting against vladimir putin, he was in our studio, we just talked with him about all these things and how people are now choosing their freedom by fighting on the side of ukraine, therefore it is clear that ilya ponomarov is big a figure, and it is clear that the russian special services... uh, pay special attention to it. at the same time, uh, roman, i wanted to ask you one more thing about these corruption scandals that are just exploding in the ministry of defense of sergei shaigu, or rather, his former ones, his

entourage, because we see how one after another, the deputy ministers, there , the leaders of the soldiers, all the other people, it seems that five or six people are already in the sizo. serhii kyzhugetovych himself has a warrant from the international criminal court, he is a certified criminal of such an international level, but this corruption, it has always existed in russia, and everyone has been stealing there since the beginning of time, and under putin , it probably all happens centrally, or they somehow regulate it there, well, everyone takes as much as they are allowed to take, does this mean that the whole environment sheigu is now sitting down. to the pre-trial detention center, that they took a little more and that they showed the situation in the army not as it was, but painted this situation, as a result of which they have been in

this state since 2022, thefts, bribes and the rest have nothing to do with it meaning, they are, as they say, disgraced their tsar or not the tsar to the whole world, and this is the tsar. let's remember, so since the 17th year, vladimir putin has been showing all kinds of footage in public speeches of how russian missiles are flying, respectively, somewhere in the united states, and everything is being burned there, and this sick grandfather, whom we now see on the screens, usually says, we don't have analogues, we are now like a scumbag, we want nato to shrink, ukraine to be ours and so on and so forth, here for once and a little bit everything went differently, more. what is on russian television now they show how tamagavkas and other missiles fly into russian cities, our ballistic missiles will also fly, including in addition to the f-16 armament, and it is clear that the shoigu clan is being punished for this, he personally most likely

will not be touched, but they will simply send him to a pension, in which, in which he is actually now, because this one, well... he is either influential, or so-so, depending on the personal, and i haven't even seen a meeting of the security council lately. on fridays, putin usually calls, something lately, it seems to me, even this format has somehow become not so interesting, it seems to me that the most cool news in this case is that the leaders of winetorg were arrested, we remember, this is exactly what started the war, this is the school phrase of a maniac putin, weapons and russian military uniforms can be bought in any store. in vaentorg, i want to say to this monster: well, grandfather, you are crazy, you

brought the pre-militarized ukraine to modern american planes, and probably, if you had at least a little sense, you would have already would begin to crawl away, and so the effect will be just like this, well, that is, russia's retreat, only because of blood and ours, well, and accordingly, russian's ill-fated actions. roman, another topic that was updated during the last week was zelensky's interview with the lemont publication, he said that the russians could be present at or russia could be present at the second peace summit, which will be held in november, and what zelensky said ? i believe, like most countries, that russian representatives must be present at the second peace summit in november, otherwise we will not we will achieve viable results, i don't want them to get in the way of us working out

a plan together. we know that the russians put forward an ultimatum, an ultimatum to the ukrainian side, they said that your capitulation, four oblasts, the withdrawal of the ukrainian army, denazification, what are they doing next, well , they will repeat this mantra, and neutral status, and there is something else, like you appreciate the effort. is it possible to give the russians the opportunity to take part in this peace summit and in what status? well, first of all, they have already abandoned this format. secondly, the president of ukraine demonstrates to the whole world that we, we are not, we are ready to make compromises, we are ready to negotiate, because recently the russians have always emphasized that it is the ukrainians who do not want to negotiate, please, we want to negotiate. the only nuance is that here, when we talk about any peace talks, it is very important... it is more that now everyone has started talking about the f-16, because this is

a preparation for peace talks, nothing will be signed with the russians under any circumstances, the only nuance here, the most important one, is what will be the solution of the western world after the elections of the united states, well, relatively speaking, to give ukraine the number of planes and bombs to freeze the war, or to knock out the russian sycophants from... this will depend much more than all this talk about negotiations, well, so that the western partners they thought more quickly, then they should create their own rockets and fly around moscow, so it flew into panamarov's house, well, why can't we kill ryshkin, he too, he also has a daughter too. glass windows there need to be destroyed by people who will make appropriate decisions,

well, thank you, on this optimistic note we will end our conversation, thank you roman for the conversation, it was roman tsymbalyuk, my colleague, journalist, friends, during the entire broadcast we conducted a survey about us and asked you about this, do you expect from f-16 change the situation at the front 74% yes, 26% - no. this, my friends, is where i end it, it was a verdict program. rudenko, i say goodbye to you, see you tomorrow, take care of yourself and your relatives, goodbye, there are discounts until independence day on estezifin, 25% in pharmacies plantain bam and savings when you sleep on an uneven surface, the spine is in the wrong position, because you cannot feel refreshed in the morning. and productive during the day, and with toper matryk you will forget that you are sleeping on an imperfect surface.

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zima's big broadcast. two hours of airtime, two hours of your time. two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives. two hours to be keep abreast of economic and sports news. two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like family to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. events of the day in two hours. vasyl zima's big broadcast. a project for smart and caring people. espresso in the evening. every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv, andriy smoliy and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. do you want to understand how our today will affect

our tomorrow, see saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. greetings, my name is yuriy fizar and this is espresso-interview. as always, we have serious guests and serious topics, with our interlocutor today we will talk about pain points, about hungarian-ukrainian relations, ultimately about hungary and about the hungarian leader. viktor orbán and my guest today is hungarian security analyst, expert of the german council on international relations, professor of corvina university andrás rats. mr. ratz, welcome and thank you for joining me today. congratulations and thank you very much. thank you very much for

joining. today we will talk about hungary, about the prime minister of hungary , viktor orbán, and about a very sensitive. if you don't mind, i'll start with that. consequently, ukraine blocked the transit of russian oil to slovakia and hungary. the governments of those countries even appealed to the european commission with a request to put pressure on ukraine to cancel this decision. how far do you think the hungarian government will go to...

that russian companies can still use this pipeline such as rosneft, tat-neft, bashneft and others companies so, this story, for now, does not mean that the flow of oil has completely stopped, also because ukraine needs oil transit, ukraine needs the transit fee that comes from the pipeline. at the end of may 2022, so roughly three months following the full-scale escalation. if we talk about hungary's reaction, then we have to start from the events that took place two years earlier. european union at the end of may 22, about three months after the full-scale invasion. imposed sanctions on the import of oil from russia pipelines. three eu countries asked for

a postponement: the czech republic, slovakia and hungary. they claimed that they did not have the funds to immediately diversify their imports of russian oil, and for technological reasons they had to continue using it. since then , the czech republic has decided. however, hungary and slovakia still use russian oil. the deferment granted by the european union has no deadline. ye called on both bratislava and budapest to diversify the supply of russian oil as soon as possible, but the text of the document does not specify any deadline. since then, budapest and bratislava will continue to import russian oil. this is not the only source of imports, but it is significant. so, if the flow of oil were to completely... stop, which it hasn't, that would be a major blow to the energy security of both countries, but again, we're not there yet . as for hungary's reaction,

it should be noted that budapest's immediate reaction was the announcement of its intention to block the european peace fund. this fund, this amount of money is about 6.5 billion euros, which should compensate those eu countries that provide ukraine with military... so, budapest initially blocks the payment of these 6.5 billion euros, de facto, it does not harm ukraine directly, it harms european countries that help ukraine. but this is a kind of indirect measure. budapest has effectively blocked this european peace fund for quite some time, citing various reasons. so, it will definitely happen. budapest will continue to block the european peace fund, but it is a block. lasted for years, in addition, hungary turned to the european commission with a request to put pressure on ukraine, but the european commission replied that for now more information, more investigations are needed, so

there will be no direct intervention by the european commission, well at least for now. for now, because hungary has already chosen, in fact, maximum escalation. that is, the blocking of the european peace fund for 6.5 billion euros. i don't expect that budapest can do much. then more yes, you hear from hungarian officials that hungary can block the prospects of ukraine joining the eu, but joining the eu is a long way. me several years before ukraine will be able to join the european union. it will definitely happen, but it won't be a quick process. so, in the short term, budapest has no way to put pressure on ukraine, but blocking the european peace fund, blocking 6.5 billion.

hungary and the european union. let's talk about them too. therefore, the president of the european council, charles michel, called viktor orban's trip not only to moscow, but also to beijing, a political mistake. and washington. he also stated that the european union reacted to this with a yellow card. does it have brussels powers to finally show viktor orbán a red card? it is necessary to define what a red card is. if we stick to football metaphors, then a red card means that the player must leave the field. it's not going to happen, nobody can be kicked out of the european union, so unlike football here he can have a few yellow cards and still stay in the game for now.

the trip to moscow, as well as the trip to beijing, and the way these trips were conducted, is a serious violation of both the written and unwritten rules of how an eu country should conduct itself foreign policy. consequently, it caused a great scandal and publicity within the european union. certain political countermeasures have already been applied. for example, some eu member states are boycotting high-level meetings of the hungarian eu presidency. viktor orban was not invited to the european parliament to present his presidential program. the head of the european commission, ursula vonlein, is not going to come to budapest, which is a very strong diplomatic signal. however, when it comes to

practical countermeasures, kind of punitive measures, the eu cannot do anything. unlike in football, a player who breaks the rules will not be sent off the field of play, but he will have much less opportunity to achieve something in the game, and this is what will happen to hungary, it is already happening to them, it is already clear that the trip to moscow caused hungary suffered serious reputational losses from the point of view of prestige and... faith of allies. meanwhile, it is not at all clear that it was hungary that benefited from this trip. so, the minuses are clear, but no one notes the pluses. organization of a trip to moscow, things like that discussed orban and putin, and the purpose of all this remains a kind of mystery, a kind of secret. it is simply not clear that hungary gained from this, but it is clear that it lost. can you say that mr. orbán

is somehow dependent on putin, based on what we saw during his trip to russia and what he said when he came back. it is very difficult to assess, the last time they met was in beijing. even then, during the beijing meeting, orbán openly said that the previous meeting in beijing had been initiated putin, and orban could not say no. it was actually very telling, it's very difficult for an eu or nato prime minister. if putin called them to go, then they had to go. such was the previous meeting. as for the current meeting, which took place two days after the trip to kyiv, the hungarian narrative is that it was budapest that initiated it, but again, it is unclear what

hungary actually gained from it. instead, it is quite clear what russia got. it was very interesting to watch how the russian state media covered this visit. when putin and orbán started a discussion, literally in the fifth sentence, putin called orbán an envoy of the european union, which is technically certainly not true. but all the russian media covered orban's visit as if the president of the european union had come to moscow, showing how important a player russia is and that it is not isolated at all. within a few days, all the russian state media actually... russia won a lot, and it was very profitable for her. why was it good for hungary? i honestly don't know. mr. orban too said that he has some kind of peace plan for ukraine. you know the details of this peace plan, i tried to find it on the internet

but no. what didn't find, uh, it's not your fault, the plan doesn't exist, this narrative about the plan is actually very interesting because orbán doesn't have the three things needed to mediate. firstly, he has no plan, secondly, he has no mandate, no one else can provide it, thirdly, he has no legitimacy, so... it's interesting to imagine why orbán said he was going to promote peace in ukraine. besides let's not forget that in order to achieve peace there must first be a ceasefire, so the pre-peace plan must be a ceasefire, that's a technicality. as for

the plan itself, there is no plan. doesn't exist, when he met with president zelensky, he called for some weird form of a segmented ceasefire, but it wasn't detailed, and i'm not aware of any such document that elaborates on this idea of ​​a segmented ceasefire. when he went to moscow, he could not even say a word, because putin almost immediately stated that russia is not ready to accept... according to the russian position, and this is the ultimatum that russia announced just a day before the peace summit regarding ukraine and switzerland. the same ultimatum, which you know very well, ukraine must completely abandon the donetsk, luhansk,

zaporizhia and kherson regions. and crimea.