18:10, take care, i wish you a good weekend, we will donate to the armed forces of ukraine, we support the ukrainian army, well , literally in a few moments, i am the verdict with serhiy rudenko, let's watch together, good evening, we are with ukraine, today in the program the verdict with serhii rudenko, the creeping offensive of the russians continues. zelensky says that the troops are tired and need rotation, but there is a lack of weapons for the new brigades. how long can a war of attrition last when russia has an industrial advantage? budget hole of 500 billion. the government plans to close the deficit public funds at the expense of domestic borrowing and a significant increase in taxes. will the business survive? additional burden

during wartime. the great coordinator andriy yarmak denies the growth of his influence on state decisions, but confirms the coordinating role in the president's office. why are international partners worried about the system of government in ukraine? glory to ukraine. this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy ordenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. in in the first part of our program, our guests will be, in particular, ihor lapin, special officer, officer of the armed forces of ukraine, yevhen magda, executive director of the institute of world politics and economist, member of the board of the national bank of ukraine, vasyl. in the second part of our

program, which will start in an hour, we will have a traditional journalist club: kateryna nekrecha and olga musafirova. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest you watch the video of how the second corvette was launched in turkey today, built for the ukrainian fleet, it was named hetman ivan vyhovskyi, the first lady of ukraine olena zelenska took part in the solemn ceremony. let's see. korveta, hetman, ivan vegovsky, long and successful life to you, be steadfast and reliable in protecting the people who entrusted you with their lives, carry and embody the best of both countries, ukraine and turkey, in defense of justice and peace.

glory to the military marine. fleet of ukraine and death to the russian occupiers. friends, throughout our broadcast we conduct polls, today we ask you the following: do you expect gold medals from ukrainian olympians? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, if you have your own separate opinion, please write it in the comments below this video. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for the numbers. if you expect gold medals from ukrainian olympians, 0800 2113. all calls to these

numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote. i want to introduce today's our first guest is ihor lapin, major of the armed forces of ukraine, special officer, people's deputy of ukraine of the eighth convocation. mr. major, i welcome you, thank you for joining our broadcast. glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. so, mr. major, begin. our conversation about the gradual advance of the russians in donetsk region, it has been going on for a long time that the russians are trying to advance in the east. the head of the pentagon, lloyd austin, said that the united states of america is concerned about the progress of russian forces in ukraine, but he is encouraged by ukraine's ability to attract more people to army replenishment let's listen to what the secretary of defense of the united states of america said. we

are concerned about any advance from russia, but i applaud what the ukrainians are continuing to do to make sure they can hold their own. i think that you will continue to see that... russians and ukrainians are advancing somewhere, and retreating somewhere, but the ukrainians are very determined people, they have demonstrated this from the very beginning of this conflict. mr. major, how do you assess the situation at the front today? well, let's be honest, we see serious risks cutting off the pokrovsk -kostyantynivka logistics route is no longer a secret. russians, this wedge of theirs is partially turned to the side. side of pokrovsk, what you and i have talked about more than once. at the same time, we see a serious situation looming over chasiv yar, it has not gone anywhere, and it continues to be there. what bothers me the most today, i see, well, not that comforting, uh, after, let's say,

after the krynka bridgehead stopped performing the function it performed, it pulled out a colossal number of russian troops, somewhere these troops that were being pulled out... covers, somewhere they are now concentrating, according to my information, this is zaporizhzhia, the zaporizhia direction, and i would like to see colossal fortifications, yermak's line and zelensky's line, as at least the first and second lines in the zaporozhye direction. unfortunately, apart from the allocated millions of hryvnias for these lines, i do not hear such information that a relatively normal ukrip-district is being built there, i want to remind you. viewers from the front line to zaporozhye there are several tens of kilometers, if i'm not mistaken, 46 or 47 km, it's not that far, and if we recall the demands of the russian so-called svo, then it has already turned into war demands for the donetsk-luhansk regions as well, the russians still want to finish off zaporizhia and kherson, for

that they need zaporizhzhia, of course , kherson, of course, the river there will not allow them to cross like that now, and the antoniv bridge does not look very good, as for... coming to the right bank, but nevertheless this story yes, that's why i observe such things, further statement secretary of defense of the united states, of course we're fine that they're concerned, but we don't have enough, we don't have enough cluster munitions, we don't have enough anti-personnel mines. by the way, maybe there is a secret or not a secret for the viewers, ukraine is a signatory of the convention on the non-use of anti-personnel mines, er, it is not particularly directed, as they say, radio judges, this is a very cool story, if we are talking about the front line, today's meat assaults the russians could just be us, as they say, these anti-personnel mines on the move, moreover not only should we not use them, we also had to dispose of them there to a great extent,

it is not very good, so the meat assaults of the russians can be shot down with anti-personnel mines, they can be shot down with cluster munitions and of course fpv drones, i am sorry not to see them. today at the forefront of the still unified and scaled production of fpv drones like the first million of president zelenskyi. we continue to release drones in garages, in kitchens, everyone releases what they can with software, as they say, that they found, then the problem begins, the problem that drones on the front line have to solder something, reflash, but the most terrible thing for us today is the death of many people. brothers and sisters who manufacture explosive projectiles for the same drones, there is no unified product and the state does not work in this direction at all, but you understand, that is, what is attached to the drones, then it is all done by self-propelled, already on that time, the producers could

start it, if there was, as they say, the state order of the ministry of defense and the will, the will to do exactly that, i don't know for whom it is, how it is possible. to name, in addition to destroying the color of the nation with its inaction, that's it, these are the problems with which, well, about which i talk every day, we continue to collect, volunteers collect what they can, although in principle it would be possible to do so, there are drone manufacturers who can scale production up to certain points, please make them a competition on the range, choose the five best examples, do something like that say allowed their scaling. and let everyone work in the same algorithms, then the drone operator of one brigade will not think about working with drones when he gets to another place, or if the volunteer changes, or if the drone model changes, he will have the understanding that they all work in the same sense, and of course ammunition,

ammunition must be universal, on the one hand it must perform cumulative functions in relation to russian armor, on the other hand it must contain fragmentation, as the elements say. in order to impress the enemy's manpower, well, let's talk briefly, i will say one more thesis, half a million or so how many russians are there, how many are there now on the territory of ukraine, well , they say 6000. somewhere more or less, if there were one million drones, that's two drones for one muscovite, we would have, for sure, ended the war, but apart from the pr campaign by the president and apart from the loud statement about these million drones, i have not yet observed the supply of drones in the army on the part of the state, i do not know of such subdivisions, maybe you have information about which subdivision is fully provided at the expense of the state, i do not know such subdivisions, by the way, fedorov... the minister of digital transformation, he says that there will

be some transparent tenders, no auctions, and lots will be put up, and with regard to the fact that these drones are ordered by the state, it should be a certain procedure, but it has been going on for so long, it is simply not clear why, why exactly this is happening, mr. major, in your opinion ... what is missing in order to it was a big production, so how did the russians get there very quickly and start clipping these drones? well, let's be honest, let's say how you can calculate the best manufacturers of combat drones in ukraine while lying on the couch, but how can you calculate all this? well, of course you won't count it, but if for the russian agents sitting on the sofa you calculate such producers that federo is now proposing to cover, i'll tell you, it will happen very simply, we go to the transparent, look... the tender announced by the stupid authorities, which is praised by the ministry of digital fedorov, and then we go to the register

of enterprises, and there are addresses there, then we find the geolocation, we hammer this geolocation into the head of the next iskander, and he flies there. we have already been with this, we have already seen it when dovbny published counterparties working with kb luch. and on december 29, if i am not mistaken, a massive rocket attack destroyed a bunch of enterprises that were directly... contractors of our design bureau of the kbluch, so today they want to make it clear that it is july, zelenskyi said that he has to be in this year, a million drones, july ended, august began, that is, by today we should already have, well, at least half a million finished products, which we should simply take to the military units, they are preparing some more tenders, for the tender we need a unified product, there must be an order . specific parameters and characteristics, then it will be clear, but in addition to the laser itself, there is also software,

there is also the firmware of this drone, these are also serious things, you will put them up for tender, or should some structure handle this personally, which there will be those drones that are collected from shit and sticks in garages by people, then they have to be patched and done as it should be centrally, well , you know that, if everyone has their own walkie-talkie that will work on its own purity. according to some algorithms, well, this is, well, complete, complete nonsense, that is why there must be production and its state must scale, that is, if there is some kulibin, for example, i am talking to a guy there, he made trench rap and rap for the protection of equipment , the reviews about him are very good, and what's the point, he even has this mr has already been approved, and what’s the point, they need to be scaled up, we have serious electronic warfare systems, such as bukov... it was once calculated that with their cost

, $40 million would be enough to cover the entire front line, well, that’s it directly where they are needed, in order to close the donetsk and luhansk directions there, if it is necessary to close the russian-ukrainian border completely, it means to buy more, but there are some products that, in principle, already have a name, and they have this a name earned in combat, well, you need such scale, we see. they launched lancets, the russians are producing a bunch of geraniums there and so on, they actually increased the production of kha-101 missiles by eight times, and we announce a tender, well, we are so sure that there will be a tender later, but there will be none of them from that tender to shoot, and the fact that the americans say that they are glad that we have the opportunity to involve more people in the war, we humans will not drag out the war, we need a miracle. because the russians have more pig-dogs living on the territory of russia, 140 million of us

we cannot fight people against people, we will not leave here. well, by the way, mr. major, the deputy chairman of the commission on national defense strategy of the united states of america, eric eidelman , said during a senate hearing that america and its allies now produce fewer weapons than russia, china, iran and north korea combined . listen. what he said. our defense-industrial base is in a very bad state. the european defense-industrial base is even worse. we need both our industrial base, and their industrial base, and our allies in pacific region, australia, japan, south korea, taiwan, they all need to step up because what russia, china, iran and north korea are doing is beyond what we can do ourselves. mr.

major, the conditional message of evil prevails over the conditional message. civilization, why in the current conditions our western partners cannot compete with the axis of evil? well, democracy in general, it is regulated by procedures, any democratic state, it is regulated by procedures, the news of evil is that there is no such regulation, it has from thought about, from thought to the execution order passes only a moment in the dictator's head, that's all, so it's difficult to compete, of course, but... what i paid attention to, after all, everything was said in the context of a probable scenario of the development of events that could lead to the third world war, then for in order for there not to be a third world war, it is necessary to give the ukrainians the opportunity to finish off the russian federation, then countries like china, having an ally in russia, will be scratching their heads very well and wondering if it is worth raising

their heads somewhere, because they already have an ally broken, then economic sanctions, of course they can work, but until... then the whole world should join, but the whole world does not join, india, china and other countries, there is hungary, there is slovakia, they continue to trade with the russians and give them possibility of money, then the united states is the biggest threat to the united states, it is china, of course, and russia. one of the biggest threats is the russian nuclear triad and the russian army, which, by the way, to this day is considered the second. army in the world, and this second army in the world is being flayed by ukraine, so give it to the ukrainians so that we finish them off faster, then china will lose such a colossal ally, right next to japan, it will lose such an ally as russia. give us a chance to do it. well, not six f-16 planes can oppose 400 russian planes over the ukrainian

sky, well, six planes do not decide the weather. again, how can you finish off russia at its airfield. not giving ukrainians permission to use western weapons against russia, well , you know that, on the one hand, i listened to this the report and there, by the way, a lot of sobering things were said, but i want to remind all americans that today's financing of arms production in america, including ukraine, is due to the fact that the americans are replenishing their stocks, their industries are growing, jobs are growing, and it develops everything. sorry for the prices, thanks to the fact that the ukrainians are fighting with their weapons, and ukraine has become such, you know, a big, big training ground for any kind of weapon, since it has already happened that the russians stepped on us, and we already have that one, so say, a testing ground weapons, then i want to say that ukrainians today, for example, in air defense, our air defense, it is like

a grandmother's dress in patches iristy, sampt, patriot, s-300, there and... and beech trees, and everything that you want, vinigred, it completely turns out that the sky closes with us, whatever happens, and we show the effectiveness of this or that system in these or other directions, well, yes, dear friends, western partners, so multiply these things not only in the context of air defense, multiply them in the context of tanks, f-16s, and that on them, the world is wedged together, there are mirages in france, which ready, by the way, they were giving us, there is a grizplin in sweden, please, so let's use these... capabilities, yes, they are not the same as f16, but we currently have nothing at all , you understand, and the story is that western partners are developing their production, and due to the fact that there is a colossal demand, there is also financing, and the financing itself helps, as they say, ukraine, but again , jobs are created there, although in ukraine

so to our credit, our neptune has recently shown that it is more than capable the trough of the topitta, which he can reach even to kursk. airfields, well, that’s fine, but also if they would develop the peregrine falcon, boris fen, what we have there, the mushroom, these missile programs, it would also be good, that’s why we need help, but we emphasize once again, we, defeating russia, we can make the world avoid the third world war, and looking into the eyes of putin, it will be the same story that the world once looked into the eyes of hitler, remember, i brought you peace, shouted one politician, as a result it turned out. not peace, it turned out to be the third world war. to things, i want to tell you that if you look historically, the things that are currently being said about some kind of truce are precisely the appeasement of the aggressor. at the expense of someone? hitler was pacified at the expense of the czech republic and czechoslovakia. so? at one time, the first world war ended with the fact that tsarist

russia, as a state, simply ceased to exist, but it was not a country that lost in the first world war, it was a member of the entente. and all these historical things should inspire us to fight, including not to play with theses peace at any price, peace in exchange for... and so on, if the western world understands that there can be no peace with russia, and indeed it cannot be objectively, then we will have more weapons, the second army of the world will disappear, china's great ally will disappear, and glory to ukraine, well, that's how i look at it. mr. major, at the very end of our conversation, i would like to ask about your attitude to the formation of the ukrainian legions, at first it was announced that it would be in poland from those men who are... now abroad, now the czechs are talking about the fact that this ukrainian the legion will be formed in the czech republic on voluntary bases from ukrainian refugees

and the czech community of citizens of ukrainian origin, and this was told by the minister of defense of the czech republic jana chernokhova, she says: we want to continue the training of ukrainian soldiers, so why not include in this process, perhaps already czech citizens who consider themselves of ukrainian nationality and not to form some... unit, like the efforts of the czech republic and poland to form, well, a conditional reserve army for the armed forces, how effective is this process, and what will it give? look me of course, i can question this moment for one simple reason: there is no prescribed term for this service in the context of demobilization, if there is no demobilization, then there is a problem with... mobilization, today people look at the armed forces anyway, you know how they declared us heroes , they closed the door behind us and told us to go to the end until you die, well , how about another way, today

you can demobilize either you are 200, or you are a severely disabled 300 there, or because of capture, or because of arbitrarily leaving the military unit and a criminal business, well, it's not an option, the state promised the military to regulate this, in the previous law they removed the sentence about demobilization, promising to work on... the new law, four months have passed, of course, no one has done anything, and recently stefanchuk came out and said, but we abandoned you, you locks, no one there will be no dembel during the war, well, in principle, i did not doubt that it would be so, but many people hoped, so please tell me, even if this legion is formed there in poland or in the czech republic, anyone who comes there will say : and dembel when, well, we go for a year, for two, for three, well, that is, you understand, and this will be a big problem, it will be a problem precisely for the formation of such a legion, from the second. many people are still fed up with russian propaganda that if you join the armed forces, you will immediately be thrown to the meat, without weapons, without anything, our boys are naked, barefoot, and you

will all perish, you will all die, and people in principle, we would like to go, but we would just like to learn, and this very moment of the formation of such a unit abroad is like an element that removes russian propaganda in the context that you are not trained golibos will go, they will be in children, shoes, trained, but the question is whether they will go taking into account... the situation with the throw that, sorry for the slang, announced today, not literally today, but a few days ago, stefanchuk announced, that there will be no demobilization, i.e. all the promises of the government and the parliament that we will settle it, that's all we fooled you, that's all, and this very element is the biggest demotivator to go to the armed forces, this is the biggest demotivator. thank you, mr. major, for the conversation, this was a major of the armed forces of ukraine, a special agent, a deputy... of the eighth convocation of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, i wish you good health, goodbye, until the next meetings, and i would like to remind you, friends, that we work live on the tv channel, as well as

on our youtube and facebook platforms, and throughout our broadcast we conduct survey, we are asking you today about whether you expect gold medals from ukrainian olympians, yes no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, write your opinion separately, if you have one, and what you think about the olympics, participation of ukrainians in... the olympics, at the end of the program we will pick up the results of this vote, i want to introduce our second guest, this is vasyl furman, a member of the council of the national bank of ukraine, doctor of economics, mr. vasyl, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, mr. vasyl, let's start our conversation with the announced tax increase according to the government's estimates. ukraine's state budget lacks uah 500 billion, which is why the situation is critical, it may affect salaries for military and defense procurement, while

denis shmyhal of ukraine says that about 125 billion hryvnias he plans to receive additionally, the government plans to receive this year thanks to the increase in taxes, and this became known at the results of the meeting of the council on support of entrepreneurship, i quote mr. shmyhal. we understand that this can be a challenge for business, but it is a critical need in conditions when the government has directed and will direct every hryvnia of businessmen's taxes exclusively to weapons. salaries of the military and their support, all other expenses require, help to finance international partners. how do you assess the government's intentions, mr. vasyl? raise taxes and will it save the situation? thank you for the question, look, in general, we have a deficit of the state budget, a new deficit, it is uah 500 billion, this is also taking into account what we have

at the beginning. last year there was a deficit of 38 billion dollars, which will be financed at the expense of our international partners, here an additional 500 billion uah arose, the government of the ministry of finance repeatedly said why this arose, well, the need for additional financing, and here i express my personal point of view, on the one hand we all ukrainians understand that we need funds to to finance the ukrainian army. because someone may have a question, why can't our foreign partners give us funds? well, this is how it turns out against the great war that our budget receives all the funds from international partners, they go to finance expenses, there, for example, salaries for civil servants, education, health care, the deficit of the pension fund is partly covered there, but not for financing the salaries of military personnel, not

financing... the industrial complex, and other issues related to the war. war in ukraine is financed by the taxpayers of ukrainians, these are individuals and legal entities, plus those borrowings that we take from the domestic market, obdp, bonds of the domestic state loan, so-called military bonds. it is clear that today there is a huge gap of 500 billion. and only at the expense of taxpayers, well, if we talk with this amount of 500 billion, well, we heard the government's statements about... that there is a little more than 120 billion this year they want to cover, and here there is a fierce discussion about how to do it, and business, government, they are now, well, i am on as far as i understand, such a coherent position has not been found so far, but what i even heard there from the statements of some government officials, that they know that during the discussion the truth is born, and they

want to find in... this truth, to find this middle ground, but i would like to say that if we are talking about raising taxes, again, this is my personal point of view, that is, if we are talking about what should be raised, then we should say frankly that let's raise, well, for example, there for a year or until the end of martial law, so that everyone ukrainians and business understood that this is precisely for this period, this is precisely why we agree to tighten our belts, this is the first, second, we have greatness. economy in our country, more than, well , look, there are different estimates, that is , i did not see estimates at the time of the great war, but before the great war even official statistics showed that this figure was more than 30%, according to unofficial data even moreover, this figure means that everyone needs to pay and finance the ukrainian army, so it looks like the proposals that are there today, well, it pays white business, the gray economy is somehow in

the shadows except... so, from my personal point of view, the gray economy, when you do not pay taxes during the war, and maybe not during the war, is a crime, and on this issue we a long, long time ago, it was necessary to take care and work, but it is necessary to bring, well , to make such decisions, and what kind of solution can be, well, this is the issue of vat, value added tax, when everyone pays, i understand that there is an issue of socially vulnerable sections of the population, and then, so, well, for example, medicine, so, then make vat on medicine as it is today, do not increase it, or there is bread, for example, those who buy, well, there, well, socially protected, that is , you do not increase vat on simple categories, on other things, raise it slightly. the second direction of funds, which business often talks about, says, well, let's carry out the reform, we have huge losses in other directions, customs, 100 more billions.