the loans that we take from the domestic market of ovdp, bonds of the domestic state loan, so-called military bonds, it is clear that there is a huge gap today of 500 billion, and only at the expense of taxpayers, well, if we talk with this amount of 500 billion, well, we have heard the government's statements that they want to cover a little more than 120 billion this year, and there is a fierce discussion about how to do it, both business and government. they are now, well , as far as i understand, they have not yet found such a coherent position, but what i i even heard some government officials there saying that they, you know, during the discussion the truth is born, and they want to find this truth, find this golden mean, but i would like to say that if we are talking about raising taxes, again, this is my personal point of view, that is, if we are talking about what should be raised, then we must... say frankly that let's

raise, well, for example, there for a year or until the end of martial law, so that everyone ukrainians, business, understood that it was for this period, and for this very reason, we agreed to delay belts, this is the first, the second, we have a huge shadow economy in our country today, more than, well, look, there are different estimates, that is, i did not see estimates at the time of the great war, but before the great war , even official statistics showed that this figure was greater than 30%, according to unofficial data , this number is even higher, which means that everyone needs to pay, finance the ukrainian army, so it looks like the proposals that are available today, well, the white business, the gray economy pays, it is somehow in the shadows, except that, on my personal the point of view that clean economy, when you don't pay taxes during war, and maybe not during war, is a crime, and we had to worry and work on this issue a long, long time ago. but it is necessary

to bring, well, to make such a decision, and what kind of decision can it be, well, it is a question of vat, value added tax, when everyone pays, i understand that there is a question of socially vulnerable segments of the population, and then, then, well, for example, medicine, that means, then make vat on medicine, as it is today, do not increase it, or there is bread, for example, which they buy, well, they are socially protected, that is, of simple categories. do not increase the vat, raise the other slightly. the second direction of funds, which the business often talks about, says, well , let's carry out the reform, we have huge losses in other directions, customs, 100 more billions, annually, well, losses, tax is ineffective, by 100% and many, many other government bodies can , well, today, well, let's put it this way, i understand that funds are needed now, if we are talking about reforms, then it is like, well, necessary.

the issue is not resolved quickly, but from another point of view on the other hand, i remember these reforms and many others, we have been talking for more than 10 years, you understand, the coach is not there, so our key task today is clearly that funds are needed, and we have to find them, we we have to win back our independence, but look, mr. vasyl, you are right, and denys shmyhal is right, and it is clear that the army must be financed during the war, and the military must... it is meant that it must be invested in, because this is the future of ukraine and a matter of life and death, but this is what the entrepreneurs i interviewed say marketing group adventer group, what do they say that the increase in taxes, ukrainians, the increase of entrepreneurs, that the increase.

taxes in ukraine, will first of all force businesses to raise prices for their goods and services. this was stated by more than 72% of the interviewed entrepreneurs. in addition, the business plans to try to optimize the payment of taxes and expenses, will look for new sales markets and reduce staff. that is, it turns out that all taxes that will be introduced in the event of a mini-tax reform or y. of these special measures in the tax legislation, it will fall on the pockets of ordinary citizens, ukrainians, who will pay more for goods and services, part of the business will generally go to the shadow economy, you have already mentioned about 40% of the shadow economy, and you mentioned the reforms that are necessary in ukraine, about these reforms for the last 5 years , they said that the customs office should be reformed, that there are a lot of holes, that... a lot of

money goes into pockets there, too, is there any other alternative now to fill the budget besides raising taxes, because business and that's how it works. in emergency conditions, plus some businesses don't pay taxes at all or minimize taxes, and some businesses plan to minimize their taxes in case taxes are increased, there is another option to fill the budget, and thanks for the question, again, i saw a similar study, and it really deserves attention, and i tried to explain this topic from different sides and on... once again with business a compromise solution and clearly carry out further reforms so that the budget can be filled, are there still funds? look, due to the fact that our income is growing part of the budget, well, if we are talking about

last year, then the overperformance was more, well, for the whole whole year, it was more than 1 trillion hryvnias, and if we are talking about last year, then the revenue part was more than 50%, if compared to the beginning year and... year, well, when they planned, because a lot of changes were made to the budget, well, increasing the revenue part, as well as this year, in principle , the revenue part is being over-executed at the expense of one or another source, and i am sure of that , that the ministry of finance sees it, i am sure that under during meetings with business, when we saw there high-ranking officials hold meetings with business, and these questions were also raised, what are the solutions? will be taken in this matter simply, well , finally, finally, i don't know, but i know for sure what you said, and i say it again, financing the ukrainian army should be a priority if we are talking about reducing some government expenditures, yes ,

it is necessary to reduce them, but believe me, there is not so much, let's say this, the opportunity to reduce it, because there is already a lot reduced, further, if we are talking about... for example, to take part of the funds from local budgets, well, let's raise, for example, last year there was a huge approach, well, let's say this, the decision there regarding banks is very, well, how it gave significant revenues, but were not popular among banks, when they introduced a 50% bank profit tax and took it into the banking systems there, well, these profits, it was a decision for one year, raised the rate to 50%, and for other years the rate was raised to 25% , let me remind you that business... pays for it in our country the income tax there is 18%, that is, banks and so on already pay 7% there, so what are the other solutions, that is, are there any, well, i think that the ministry of finance, if there were solutions, would quickly find the money, probably would be this question, and

it is very unpopular, you understand, it is an unpopular decision to raise taxes, the fact that business does not support, are we there, well, the population, we understand it, because increasing taxes means you earn less, and... with on the other hand, everyone understands that it is necessary to finance the army, and therefore, yes, we do look for funds. and maybe, maybe, mr. vasyl, we still need to talk about the fact that we need to transfer the funding of all government bodies to the state of emergency, martial law, because, for example, the salaries of people's deputies' assistants are increased, and this decision was passed in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, so... the managers of ukrposhta and other large companies there receive large salaries, in spite of everything, that is, we have to live according to the income and the opportunities we have, and not because part of the people will live

the way they do lived before the war, all others will to pay this tax burden there, which will fall on the business. look, you raised a very difficult question again, and i personally do not support you on that side, on that part of the question where, for example, let's make it so that the head of ukrposhta receives the minimum wage, and are there other managers also received their salaries, that is, i am categorically against such positions, because precisely thanks to effective actions, if we are talking about kerposta, the management of kerupta, that is, we managed to make one of the very, very corrupt... such backward systems, structures are simple, and the company is reforming today, and yes, it is clear that a lot needs to be done, but the very fact that it is moving in the right direction, and the same needs to be done with other state structures, and the salary of managers should be market-based, because, well, conditionally, the same

head of ukrpochta, he worked abroad before taking the position of head of ukrpochta, he had a sufficiently high salary, and by and large, in essence, he... ukraine invited him to came and reformed the large state structure. for example, by the way, i will even go into the other side, for example, the structure that has already been reformed and is showing its results, this is national. the bank of ukraine, do you remember the first stage of the war, 14-15 years ago, what happened to the banking system, more than 100 banks were taken out of the market, do you remember what happened to the hryvnia, which flew into space during this period of time, do you remember , which was with inflation of 60%, and now , well, the period of the great war, the 22nd, 23rd, 24th, how professional is the national banks, banks, to the extent that the banking system is stable, thanks to the successful reforms carried out in the banking market, including at... the national bank of ukraine for nine years, starting essentially from the 15th year and continuing to reform, and because much

needs to be legislated. we are now taking seven steps towards the european union. and we need to unify tens of thousands of regulatory and legal documents in order to become, in the short term, a european, well, equal member of the eu. but, or look, again, we have a lot of inefficient state-owned enterprises today, and i read it, and i see it. and i am in favor of reforming them, so that there is less corruption there, so that they are more profitable and we can then pay the profits to the state budget, instead of the state supporting them from its own budget, that is, in this we need to look for a direction, we have been talking about the shadow economy in various studios for dozens of years, and what has changed is simply that we need to work in this direction, by the way, you and i are customs discussed simply that there is already a structural beacon, that is... we are a structural beacon in front of the international monetary fund, and we have, it seems, by the end of october to adopt

a law that will start, let's say, the start of customs, and i am confident in simply because we can really reform the customs and it will work as in the european union, and there are many, many other areas that need to be implemented. thank you, thank you, mr. vasyl, i would like to be as optimistic as you, but i remember 2019, july a month when... volodymyr oleksandrovich zelenskyy held numerous meetings with customs officers, asked what cars they drive, what phones they have, that he will restore order at the customs office, i remember, it was 5 years ago, we are again came to the point that it is necessary to restore order at customs, it is necessary to restore order in all state institutions, it is necessary to bring everyone to their senses, well , let's hope that this will happen sooner or later, it was vasyl furman, a member of the board of the national bank of... ukraine doctor of economic sciences. thank you for participating in the program. let me remind you, friends, that we work live on

the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us live, please vote in our poll. we ask you this, do you expect gold medals from ukrainian olympians? yes no. everything is quite simple on youtube. yes, no, or if you have a different opinion, please leave it in the comments below this video. if you're watching us on tv, please vote for the appropriate numbers if you're expecting. and gold medals from our olympians 0800 211 381 no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free vote at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. then we are in touch with yevhen magda, executive director of the institute of world politics. mr. yevgeny, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. congratulations, mr. serhiy, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. mr. yevgeny, let's start our conversation with... already announced by zelensky the large personnel reserve and

personnel changes in the government, because zelensky is now talking about the fact that there will be new resignations, why the president, who has concentrated maximum power in his hands and in the hands of his closest entourage, continues to talk about personnel changes, what are they changing? actually i don't know. because volodymyr zelenskyi has a law degree in the anamnesis, yes, and he should know the basics of legislation, well, after all, already, thank god, he has been the head of the state for 5 years, he should already have a legal degree, well, i am not saying that legal education will improve, but there must be people who somehow pass his statements through the sieve of expediency before going on the air, and... well, there are only two, two ministers in the government, this is the sphere of authority

the president, the minister of defense and the minister of foreign affairs, it seems that no one interferes with them, there are a third of vacancies in the government, i.e. performing duties, at first they wanted to shake the prime minister, and then it turned out that it was impossible to send the government, well if they send the prime minister, it means the government resigns. we usually like to look for different variations there , especially when such legal monsters as portnov are out there somewhere. there are er or something like that, but, well, it must be some kind of healthy stupidity. well, as for the same shmygal to work when they say that he will soon be thrown out politically, although he is already a record holder, he practically headed the government for 4.5 years, and during this time he did not take a single step to

form his own political image, you remember yevgeny for this in his time. sent us to resign, that is , well, actually, this, well, i see that the ministers have finally changed into suits, well, how, although they look more or less solid, this period of military communism in our government has already passed, only for now there is no way they can change the president's clothes to at least casual, because this military style, it seems, is already tiring everyone, including... partners, but judging by today's bloomberg publication, partners are more tired not by the way zelenskyi dresses, but by the fact that there is a head of the president's office among the authorities, who takes on powers that are in no way inherent to him

, by the way, mr. yevgeny, i will quote to our tv viewers, because not everyone has already seen this publication on bloomberg about... andriy yermak, i will quote what bloomberg writes, he writes about what, and yermamak himself is not either denies his growing influence, i do not participate in every work, i only coordinate, yes, i am very proud that the president asks my opinion, but he asks my opinion because i get results, this is how yermak explains his influence in the environment the president, what is actually said in the publication itself. about the fact that a person for whom ukrainians did not vote, but has very great powers and manages almost all affairs in the state, and this is probably the main thesis of this entire publication, and the most important thing is that in the conditions, when zelenskyi has already been in power for more than 5 years and his presidential term has already been extended,

there is still this person who constantly tries to move pieces on the chessboard with the appearance of the president of ukraine, this publication, in your opinion, is a big salute to volodymyr oleksandrovych from our western partners, because, just like that, such publications would probably not appear in bloomberg, well, i would not look for some kind of conspiracy, i think that this publication is evidence that our partners are fully aware of the situation that exists in ukraine, and well... they reckon with it to a certain extent, well, they can't, it's only, you know, in the fantasies of our short-sighted citizens , there can be some kind of intervention, interference and so on, in fact, well, it's absolutely clear to me, that nothing like that can happen, but i just think that for volodymyr

zelenskyi, this should be a signal, because when you can, how... they say to remember this saying, when volodymyr zelenskyi's mandate ends, there will be people who will accuse him of being illegal delegated his powers, and i am not sure that andriy yermak will take responsibility in this situation, he will say what is above: what about me, i was the president who gave me instructions, and i carried out, but here i am not a lawyer, no... . i think that here, here , the responsibility may be less, as it is not funny, but, well, let's see, for now we understand that there will be no elections in the near future, that the elections at the moment, well, they are a serious challenge for ukraine their implementation, and these are all

things that are currently, well, i would say fixed. not a very good situation in ukraine. andriy yarmak is one of those who prepared the second peace summit, the first peace summit and is preparing the second peace summit. yarma says that it will be very important for ukraine to ensure the participation of china in the next peace summit, and in his opinion, beijing is a big player that can really influence russia. at the same time, i... shows sociology, which was published by the survey of the national democratic institute and the kyiv international institute of sociology, the majority of ukrainians believe that ukraine should... join negotiations with russia to try to achieve peace, 57% of respondents were in favor of negotiations, against 38. it is worth noting that

a year ago the results were the opposite, only 33% were in favor of negotiations, 63% were against, while 66% of respondents believe that ukraine should return the territory under its control until 2014. including donbass and crimea, options for agreements involving certain territorial concessions have far fewer supporters, from 6 to 11%. well, mr. yevgeny, how do you explain the fact that more than half of the surveyed ukrainians, after all are in favor of negotiations with russia, although negotiations with russia, about what, russia has issued an ultimatum to ukraine, which may become the subject of such. negotiations, let's start with the first, with the first peace summit, whose results give us grounds for

counting on the second, when africa remained for us like yanukovych, undiscovered, well, that is , we were supported by units, as well, despite the fact that we tried not only ukraine's diplomatic efforts in order to... african countries, representatives of african countries came to conduct accordingly countries and supported her communique of the peace summit, this is one, the other, why is the head of the president's office, who does not have the authority to do so, and not the minister of foreign affairs, preparing it, this is a simple question, in fact, we have a minister of foreign affairs who passed, well together with... the country because of quite difficult things, he is, well, he is called one of the favorites of volodymyr zelenskyi, all the more so, why, well, that is, why the head of the president's office, it

seems, causes, well, a certain misunderstanding among our partners , third, you absolutely you are right, and i have already paid attention, look, now there is a situation, well, that is , putin's well-known ultimatum about four regions, right? if we accept this ultimatum, we will in fact simply postpone the defeat of ukraine in the war with russia, i deliberately say it as hard as it is, because it is a reality, because if the russians can cross the dnieper without a fight, then the further development of events, it absolutely can be negative for us. and why did we decide that russia will negotiate with someone, when we see that they in the east continue to press and do this

persistent enough, not counting the losses as large, much greater than in ukraine, why do we think that everything will be, well, in our opinion, what grounds do we have for this? there are no reasons, especially since piskov is the press secretary. says that there are legal nuances regarding the legitimacy of the ukrainian authorities when he is asked about future negotiations or about zelenskyi's peace initiatives, and says that of course these legal nuances cannot be an obstacle to the start of serious negotiations, while adding that no summit with the participation of russia until that is not being prepared, all the same, they constantly repeat that well... of course, we can, but with whom to negotiate and conduct these negotiations, because, well, zelensky, he is already the president whose powers have expired,

but zelensky is talking about the fact that we are preparing a peace plan for november 24th, eh, do you think that in this peace plan, there will be these seven points that were not in the first, not discussed at the first peace summit, because i still ca n't understand whether it will be a separate... peace plan or whether it will be part of the first peace plan, will it be part of a new peace plan, and who should prepare it, because zelensky says, we are with western partners, well, with western partners, and what is the peace plan or action plan in ukraine now? you know, mr. serhiy, i must confess that i only know about 10 points of zelenskyi, i am afraid that i do not belong to the majority in this matter, i understand what these 10 points are, and i consider them important from the point of view that ukraine put them forward, but i don't know all the others, i'm sorry, i don't know

these plans, i don't see a dialogue with... society on the topic of how we should end the war, i do not see a public discussion about how we should act, and this is a rather unpleasant situation, in my opinion, because we actually found ourselves, you know, here are the well-known words of zelenskyi that citizens of ukraine should, should, so to speak, come to the decision of whether territorial concessions are possible or not, we can see from sociology, no, we have this plan, sorry, well, i don't like to use medical terms, but this political-medical, schizophrenia, we believe that we have, we we can go to negotiations, but we are categorically against concessions, but negotiations will involve concessions, i will tell you more that in world politics at the moment

there is a practice of a thousand weaker, not stronger, if anyone does not know, this is reality, there is reality, on which must be responded to accordingly, but in the current situation it is obvious that the world also needs to understand what will happen next in the war between russia and ukraine, the world is now watching what is happening in the middle east, that is where the announced hostilities should begin actions announced in response to the destruction of one of the leaders of hamas, and it is clear that everyone is watching what will happen in the united states of america, whether this means that the issue, the ukrainian issue of the future of peace or the end of the war in ukraine by russia, it is again postponed there until spring of the 25th year. well, look, the question is not even that,

the question is that the world saw that... the states are ready to negotiate with the current administration, the truth is with russia, putin has already received someone, his colleagues, and in fact in exchange for ordinary people, well, for hostages, let's say this, for hostages that i took, i agree, for hostages, and there may be 10, 20, new, 30 such hostages, well, belarus in general condemned absolutely, as someone somewhere... with e -e organization of belarusian police officers said that absolutely no one and well lost, you know, not one who does not understand, it is simply clear that this exchange was carried out in order for hamala harris and joseph biden to meet the americans, and we are rico krieger they lead this german, well, i don't

know, i'm far from... to give any judging by appearance, but that propaganda film that the russians showed, you understand what it is about, he is actually charged with hooliganism, and most likely it was the basis of the belarusian special services, that's the thing, spies are flying here, one, well, some classic ones, just illegal, classic, killer krasikov. therefore , what is happening is actually simple, it is simple, i think, a big moral problem for the west, and i, you know, such a triumph of realpolitik does not take very well, well, yes, when murderers are released and russian spies are released, but well this

you cause very serious, a serious perception of how the west actually also participates in this action, it is clear that it was necessary to save both putin's political opponents and journalists, but, but, er, well, killers and spies are on the loose, they are met on the red carpet putin, there are many questions. thank you, mr. yevgeny, for the conversation, it was yevhen magda, the executive director of the institute. here world politics. there are 15% discounts on dekatylen until independence day at psylshynyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. ci3lev will overcome allergies, neche leo. tsit3elev neo, protects against the most common allergens. there are discounts until independence day on detoxyl tablets. 15% in plantain pharmacies.