you are absolutely right, i already paid attention, look, now there is a situation, well, that is, the well-known ultimatum of putin about the four regions, yes, if we go to this ultimatum, then we will actually simply postpone the defeat of ukraine in the war with russia, i say this on purpose, how hard it is, because this is reality, because if the russians. can cross the dnipro without a fight, then the further development of events can absolutely be negative for us. and why did we decide that russia will negotiate with someone, when we see that they continue to press in the east and they are doing it persistently enough, not counting the losses as large , much greater than in ukraine. why do we think that... it will be our way, what

grounds do we have for this? there are no reasons whatsoever , especially since piskov, putin's press secretary, says that there are legal nuances regarding the legitimacy of the ukrainian government when he is asked about future negotiations or about zelenskyi's peace initiatives, and says that, of course, these legal nuances cannot be changed '. codes for the start of serious negotiations, while adding that no summit with the participation of russia has yet is being prepared, all the same they constantly repeat that of course we can, but with whom can we negotiate and conduct these negotiations, because zelenskyi, he is already the president whose powers have expired, but zelenskyi says that we are in november on the 24th year , we are preparing a peace plan, what do you think? in this

peace plan there will be these seven points that were not in the first, not discussed at the first peace summit, because i still cannot understand whether it will be a separate peace plan, whether it will be part of the first peace plan, or whether it will part of a new peace plan, and who should prepare it, because zelensky says, we are with western partners, well, western partners, and what is the peace plan or plan of action in ukraine now? you know, mr. serhiy, i have to confess that i only know about 10 points of zelenskyi, i am afraid that i do not belong to the majority in this matter, because i understand what these 10 points are, and i consider them important from that point of view , that ukraine put them forward, but i don't know all the others, i'm sorry, i don't know these plans, i don't see a dialogue with society on the topic of how we should end the war, i did not see a public discussion about how we should... act, and this is quite an unpleasant

situation in my opinion, because we actually found ourselves, you know, here are the famous words of zelenskyi, that the citizens of ukraine should, so to speak, come to the decision of whether territorial concessions are possible or not, we can see from sociology that no, we have in this regard, sorry, i don't like to use. medical terms, but this politico-medical schizophrenia, we believe that we have, we we can go to negotiations, but we are categorically against concessions, but negotiations will involve concessions, i will tell you more that in world politics at the moment there is a practice of putting pressure on the weaker, not the stronger, if anyone does not know, this is reality, and reality, on which must

be responded to accordingly, but in the current situation it is obvious that the world also needs to understand what will happen next in russia's war against ukraine, the world is now watching what is happening in the middle east, that is where the announced hostilities should begin, announced by iran in response to the destruction of one of the leaders of hamas, and it is clear that... everyone is watching what will happen in the united states of america, does this mean that the issue, the ukrainian issue of the future of peace or the end of the war in ukraine by russia, it is again delayed there until the spring of the 25th year. well, look, the question is not even that, the question is that the world saw that the united states is ready to negotiate with the current administration, the truth is with russia, but putin got it. their colleagues, yes, in fact, in

exchange for ordinary people, well, for hostages, let's say so, to the hostages that i took so, i agree, to the hostages. and there may be 10, 20, new, 30 such hostages, well, belarus in general condemned it absolutely, as somewhere someone from the bilpol organization of belarusian police officers said that absolutely none and well lost, you know, not one who does not understand, it is simply clear that this exchange was made so that... kamala harris and joseph biden would meet the americans, and we have rico krieger leading this german, well, i don't know, i'm far from judging by appearance, but that the propaganda film shown by

the russians, you understand what it's about, he is accused of hooliganism, and most likely it was the basis of the belarusian special services, that's the point. spies are flying here, one, well, some classic just illegal, classic, the killer krasikov, so, well , what's happening is actually simple, it's simple, i think, a moral big problem for the west, and i, you know, such a triumph realpolitik does not perceive very well. well, yes, when murderers are released and russian spies are released, well, that's it causes a very serious, serious perception of how the west actually also

participates in this action, it is clear that it was necessary to save putin's political opponents and journalists, but, but, well, killers and spies. at large and putin meets them on the red carpet, there are a lot of questions. thank you, mr. yevgeny , for the conversation, it was yevhen magda, executive director of the institute of world politics. glory to ukraine. dear tv viewers, the studio zahid program is on the air of the espresso tv channel. we will analyze the most important events of this week, in particular, we will talk about the use of drones as tools for organizing political murders, but the key topic of our conversation is different interpretations in the so-called peace plans, and of course we will

analyze what our enemy is preparing. today's studio guests are zahid, mark fagin and daniel frith. now the tv channel is on the air. the legendary american diplomat, the former coordinator of the united states state department on sanctions policy, a person who can be called the flesh and blood of american diplomacy. glory to ukraine, mr. ambassador, frit, i am glad to see you. glory of ukraine. glory to heroes. well, the key story is the huge election drama in the united states. so we understand that there has been an extremely important replacement of the main candidate from the democrats. we are in ukraine. we sympathize with the democratic camp, of course, far from everyone and we cannot express this matter publicly, but president joseph biden allowed us to withstand the russian invasion, russian aggression, we appreciate it, yes, but we simply do not know what

to expect from donald trump, and if even we know, we don't really like this story, but in any case, in the united states, racing is on the front lines. activation of the enemy, therefore, in your opinion, what do the ratings show and what will be the ukrainian policy of kemela haris. i don't know vice president harris very well, but i do know her national security adviser, phil gordon. we have known each other for several years, judging by her speeches and what i know about phil gordon, kamal garis in... the position of president will continue the support of ukraine from the us. there is no doubt about it, how vice president kamala garis met with president zelensky a few days before the full-scale invasion. she attended the munich security conference in 2022 and met him there as well. they

also had joint meetings later. i will say that this year's speech by garis at the munich security conference is worth re-reading. to me, it fits in with the american tradition of supporting the free world, which president biden has said goes back to harry truman and ronald reagan. all presidents except. president trump may have followed this strategy, and i'm sure she will too. dear mr. ambassador, frith, do you have the feeling that everything in the world is so serious that one can seriously wait for the outbreak of the third world war. how interested is iran in what is called the next site of the third world war. we understand that some dictatorships, such as the russian one, are not possible. to change the rules of the game in an economical way. they tried to change the rules of the world chessboard with help

weapons and aggression against ukraine, and they got bogged down in the war, and accordingly, the appearance of fundamentally new additional format sites of death, when we talk about the middle east, it can be in the interest of those players who want to change the global decision-making system in general, and here it is not it is about some there is possible. to the new yalta, this is generally about changing the so-called post-yalta world, whether it is good or bad, but we live in it, yes, and when global disturbances begin in general, this can lead to consequences similar to those experienced by european and world humanity in 1914-1918 during the first world war. i do not think that iran will surrender. become a global player because as long as iran remains within its

current political system, a theocracy, its economic development will be stunted and its industrial and business ties with the outside world will be limited, so iran will be limited to being in opposition, supplying weapons and russian drones, and will also help russia and itself avoid sanctions. iran will not a serious global player. because of your economic limitations, you mentioned the new yalta, that is, the international system, so the russians, the chinese, and i think the iranians would like to see a world in which there are spheres of dominance. russia would have its own sphere, china would have its own, iran would have its own, and countries like ukraine would fall into the sphere of influence of one or another great power. america, in its years of wisdom, opposed such agreements. roosevelt agreed in yalta with stalin, but almost immediately regretted it

your act harry truman would not have agreed to a soviet sphere of dominance in europe, not over poland or anywhere. therefore, i emphasize that the united states stands for a free and independent ukraine, capable of choosing its friends and its place in the world. russia wants, and the ukrainians know it well, for ukraine to belong to russia, that is, completely. over it, so we have a clash of two worldviews: the problem with the russian view of the sphere of domination is the complete lack of stability, because russian domination over poland and ukraine would mean poverty, slavery and conquest. the poles would not put up with this, the ukrainians would not put up with it either, and they have every right to do so. the world of empires and spheres of influence is not a stable world, it is an unjust world. this is not a prosperous world. the usa, starting with woodrow wilson, strives and

not without mistakes, tries to promote the idea of ​​a free world system, a system of rules, a system in which smaller countries are protected from aggression by larger ones. we simply know how it ended for the whole world that the united states did not ratify either the league of nations constitution or the corresponding changes to the european continent as a result. of the american policy of isolationism, after 15 years hitler came to europe, well, now hitler in one or another incarnation came much earlier, and we in ukraine are also trying to stop him, mr. ambassador frith, at the same time there are other stories about a possible second peace summit, there are those or other plans, in particular , voiced by former secretary mike pompeo and so on and so forth, that is... a certain process is underway in the russian federation, for example, the most expected, of course, is the american

elections, in which trump would win, and then they would start playing four-eyed, yes, vladimir vladimirovich with donald fridrikhovich and so on, and we are also extremely worried about this in ukraine, this is a negotiating moment, how do you assess it now? it's good that you brought up mike pompeo's plan, because it's likely that you... concluded that there are different views within what i would call trump world. trump himself often advocates the division of the world like yalta, for the division of the sphere. influence, devin and putin will simply agree at the expense of such countries like ukraine. however, there are other personalities in trump's world who advocate a more reaganist, so to speak, policy and greater support for ukraine. michael pompeo's article in the wall street journal, in my opinion, was an attempt to influence trump's world to support ukraine and move in a more

reaganite direction. there are many things in mike pompeo's article that... i disagree with, and yet let's ask ourselves whether his plan is overall a useful and effective approach to ukraine. i will answer that it is quite possible. i repeat that i do not agree with everything, but that's not the point. the fact is that mike pompeo is pushing back on support for ukraine, which makes him closer to the biden administration than he himself would like to admit. however, it suits me. in trump's world, there are debates about these issues. i think that it would be very good if the representatives of the ukrainian government, the polish government and all the governments in europe addressed the people in trump's world and tried to convince them that ukraine's business is also our business. the success of ukraine will also mean the success of the united states. so i i think you mentioned

the pompeo plan very aptly. his article is not the only one, and yet it is much better than the proposed plan. whose starting point is a ceasefire on the current front lines, plus a us promise that ukraine will never join nato, is no doubt a much weaker position, so i think pompeo's starting point is much better. but these are just discussions: trump may or may not win the election, but it's good to see that in trump's world some still stand for, shall we say, reaganite road map of course, sanctions are not enough. the key story is to force russia to sit down at the negotiating table and change certain parameters that they are constantly exacerbating. that is, all their negotiations are reduced to their ultimatums, and this means that they are not ready. and they hope that during this

winter they will inflict simply indescribable pain and indescribable suffering on our people and beyond. of course, they hope that ukraine will become more accommodating, and various signals are coming, when many politicians there say, well, that everything depends on the ukrainian people, and when i hear it, i understand that it is to a certain extent pharisaism and cunning, so this history is the history of all civilized humanity, the repulsion of russian aggression, with all available possible resources, but we see that this is not completely successful, i i can't... understand how to explain it, yes, because we are in ukraine, now the month of august has begun, and we are already living and trying to understand what awaits us this winter. i agree that the democratic free world should increase economic pressure on russia and increase military aid ukraine by intensifying the supply of weapons

and lifting restrictions on their use. in my opinion, ukraine. should be limited in the use of weapons only by the laws of war, which are binding on all civilized countries, but there should be no additional restrictions other than that, we should help ukraine and put more pressure on russia. as you said, this could change putin's negotiating calculations. now he is also waiting for the us elections. he may think that he can negotiate a better deal with trump. we can only guess, but no it is unlikely that he is counting on this. if we increase the pressure on russia, if ukraine continues to successfully defend its territory and inflict heavy losses on the russians, if ukraine is able to continue strategic attacks on russian targets and, with the help of air defenses, limit the impact

of russian strategic attacks on the ukrainian energy system, then the situation for ukraine . can improve. ukraine has never refused negotiations. at the beginning of the summer , she held a rather successful peace summit in switzerland. russia, as you say, is not interested in serious negotiations. it makes demands that are deliberately too categorical to be taken seriously. but everything can change. we in the free world must do what depends on us, and then we will see. i do not rule out any negotiations, but... it is certainly not the americans who should tell the ukrainians what and when to do. there is a proposal by mike pompeo, which we discussed with you, and there was a phrase: about a 50-billion loan lease for ukraine, we understand that it sounds very convincing, especially in ukraine,

there is 500 billion dollars for weapons and so on and so forth, but there are also the realities of the united states, the way you see the situation with the biden lendlease and whatever the situation would be, for example, with the trump lendlease or some other lendlease, we understand that. .. six months ago, we were actually going through an extremely, extremely terrible situation, because we did not have resources and money for these resources. now the situation has improved, but, but this is war, war always eats and burns money. pompeo proposed lendless, in part because trump and some in his circle have said that we should lend money to ukraine, not finance its defense just like that. i think that supporting ukraine by giving it money for defense and giving it weapons for defense is in american interests. i support that

position, but i'd also rather get a loan under the lendlease brand than have no help at all. so i think that's what mike pompeo is getting at. there is an additional source of support for ukraine, it is about 300 billion dollars frozen by russia. assets, many europeans oppose transfer of these funds, so they agreed to use the interest on that amount, which accrues over 20 years, which is almost $50 billion to help ukraine, and that's pretty solid, that's a really good step, and i think the details are just now coming together, despite the fact that ukraine currently does not have access to the rest of these frozen finances, i am convinced that the pressure ... will gradually increase, in the end, i believe that the support of ukraine from the us and europe will be continued, as it should be, because it in the interests of freedom, it is in

in america's interests, and i think it's in europe's interests as well. plan b, in any situation there should be a plan b and a plan c. i do not believe that, for example, donald trump will become president, but i cannot rule it out, i understand. that our friends on the european continent are also seriously preparing, but we understand that france or germany alone, their willingness to support ukraine will not be enough, because this is a story not only about money, it is a story about human resources, and we would very much like to make that successful the project which 100 years ago in 1920, he put the bolsheviks literally... on the brink of survival, it is about the polish-ukrainian security alliance, in simple terms, the pact between petlyura and pilsutsky, yes, unfortunately, it was

not completed, and we understand that this or that political elites are not the only ones to blame, it was a great fatigue after the first world war, everyone wanted to end the wars as soon as possible, well, the polish national democracy so... actively implemented its other plan. i believe that polish-ukrainian friendship and union have crucial for the security of both countries and for europe as a whole. we can go back to the 17th century, when the inability of poland and the zaporizhian sich to cooperate ultimately worked in moscow's favor. poland was and is a faithful and consistent friend of ukraine. poles persistently push. government and the biden administration before providing aid to ukraine. they do this both publicly and privately. the special ambassador of poland to ukraine,

pavel kowal, is a long-time supporter of polish-ukrainian friendship. he has been friends with ukraine for many, many years, and such there are many poles across the political spectrum. there are historical issues between poland and ukraine. but you are absolutely right that pilsutskyi and petliura. understood the need for close cooperation between poland and ukraine. this need remains relevant to this day, and not only in the name of our own national interests, but also in the interests of european security and the entire free world. that is why i think that this tradition should be remembered and followed. and the last question. dear mr. ambassador, you generally see the light at the end of the tunnel, as it were they say in our country. in ukraine, how this war will end is unknown, but there is a well-founded prospect of ukraine's relative success. if ukraine can keep its territory.

to limit russian gains to a minimum and achieve very high losses for russia, this would indicate the potential for success if ukraine can continue and intensify its strategic attacks on russian military targets, and if it can limit the effectiveness of russian strategic attacks on ukrainian targets , it will also indicate potential for success. ukraine succeeds practice successful attacks. especially on russian facilities in crimea. if it can maintain this momentum and if the west gives it the support it needs, there is a reasonable prospect that russia will not be able to continue its war in ukraine. poland's foreign minister said that in two years, russia's potential may decrease, although this is a long time and not an easy prospect, but it is still a potential outcome. you ask about

the light at the end of the tunnel. yes, the road to it is not easy, but it is there. are there other options? so, is. we in the west, the united states and europe have the opportunity to influence the outcome if we do our job and support ukraine as much as possible. if we put pressure on russia and give ukraine the weapons it needs, it could make putin either unwilling or unable to continue the war. it is not for me, as an american, to dictate what ukraine should do, instead, it is ukrainians who will have to make these decisions. by the way, i think that the future of ukraine should be in nato, so as not to give it to russia agree on a ceasefire, and then regroup your troops and attack ukraine again. it is quite possible that ukraine will emerge from this war as a free, independent country, a part of greater europe and a member of nato. russia

may be defeated in its attempt to conquer ukraine, which could have a profound and beneficial effect on russia itself. so, you ask if there is light at the end of the tunnel, the answer is yes, but there is a thorny road ahead. the tunnel is long and difficult, and you, without any experts , know that. however, i see a reasonable prospect relative to success. thank you very much, mr. ambassador frith, for this habit. important conversation for all of us, i would like to remind our tv viewers that ambassador daniel frith, ex-coordinator of the united states department of state for sanctions policy, an iconic american diplomat, was currently working on espresso. when you sleep on an uneven surface, the spine takes the wrong

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